Couchiching conference; 5, Part 1

You could change conference in 1959 in Geneva park on the shores of Lake which is going on sorry for all week participants have been arguing and hammering away at the problems of changing Asia through the force the actions we have had so far. One question has come up again and again. What about communism. We'll all go communist. So this is our theme for tonight. Communist influence on Asia. We have a French-Canadian as chairman and unlike most of our other chairman he lays no claim to special knowledge about Asia. What do you have an inquiring mind in the wide ranging thirst for knowledge anyone knows was seen or heard him and his political commentaries on Radio-Canada. One of Copaxone best known personalities MR. What I mean by that and I leave him to introduce the speakers. First of all I didn't jump him and I guess no one should even try to apologize for not being an expert on Asia because it's so obvious that no man nowadays however

well-read or well traveled he may be especially know a man who isn't Asia. Or who doesn't live there more honest permanently can be anything but the non expert we may have delusions but that's what we are. It is just such an overwhelming reality. And moreover it's such an unstable one right now and it's been going on for quite a few years. As the title of this conference puts it quite simply it's a changing. Asia is changing all over and day by day. And at the very heart of those innumerable and revolutionary changes that resistant fact which we'd often like to but we haven't managed up to now do just wish out of existence. Communism in Asia communism and its influence on Asia. And just a moment we'll be learning a lot about it from people who as much as anyone can really in all four of them claim to be experts. But first very briefly maybe. There is one aspect of

the question rather not the question precisely but. As far as we're concerned closely related to it and that's picked on which any moderately Contras Canadian can probably tell them something that they might ignore and it might even help them a little bit. And that very simply is a rough outline and necessarily a very personal one very controversial one maybe of our own ideas and preconceptions on the subject of communism in Asia is something I guess that we as people probably all over the western world. I think we feel about it more than we think about it. For one thing. And that alone would be enough explanation. Yes I need that glass of water in a minute. For one thing thinking real thinking requires a certain collected essentially dispassionate frame of mind. And those are conditions that are seldom realized in what passes as our

thinking a visual or a man in the street about communism. What we really do. Generally I think very simply is to feel about communism to feel as strongly as traffic would bear or as it seems to require love but. Referring obviously to men in public life. Any man of reasonable talent can take a set of disjointed even highly doubtful facts and notions about communism. And as long as he can manage to inject that mixture with enough of an emotional charge to put things bluntly then I think immediately the man is in business. He can pose and he can even impose himself as an expert or a neighborhood expert or a provincial expert. We've had them or even national experts. Which means that nothing is

easier. Anyway in the short run nothing is more effective either than to become a crusader about something which is very complex very difficult to analyze. Tough job. But which at the same time is universally recognised in our society as something dangerous and basically hostile. Now if we're all agreed that there is hostility and danger for us in communism. I suppose some kind of crusade some kind of militant reaction is obviously a necessity. But it can't be effective in the long run. It can be darned dangerous in fact if it isn't based firmly on information and knowledge and also on comprehension. And a lot of hard and tough thinking because otherwise we run the risk of letting our emotions sit in the driver's seat. And since communism of the Middle East a menace in many ways for us and since the emotional approach always tends to exaggerate any menace to overdramatize that we might end up by having our driver's seat. Something which basically it would be the

most erratic and the most untrustworthy of conductors here just plain pure unadulterated fear of communism and that I think is and more so every year that goes by applies particularly to communism in Asia because Asia is half of mankind. And from afar it looks so big and so alien as easily to appear a hopeless proposition especially if one is already fearful. Fear ridden. And I guess that what we expect most from our four distinguished panelists this evening is that they do their best to cure us of any such fear which is not logically and demonstrably based on facts on a calm evaluation of reality and they can do that since they know communism in Asia. All four of them have seen it close up close enough anyway to understand its power. But also because after all it has them its weaknesses and to give us a balanced and well tempered view of what it has done what it's still doing

and what it still promises to do in Asia. The age of which all four of them have come as you know one to which they belong. And all of you in this hall and on the air will follow this conference in the beginning. Already know and all four of them in fact and I appreciate them so I'll be very brief with the personal introductions and just remind you that on this platform this event we have is excellently Ellen the ambassador from Indonesia who knows Europe as well as America and who was an active participant in the public life of his country before becoming one of its most prominent diplomats and then at the end of the table the other end is Mr puzzler Rahman who was born in Pakistan and had time to become an authority on Islam's most towering genius I think the great Sena before joining one of the most towering institutes of his and I mean studies in the western world in Montreal McGill University. And then there's then there's my Dom whom I think I

couldn't describe better than by saying that she is still a family doctor every day and tirelessly in Singapore while also being as everyone knows a universally acclaimed novelist even acclaimed in Hollywood. Also you will have some brief opening statements in a moment outlining some of the points at least that they consider as essential and having a title bearing on this subject but first of all we are going to meet Mr. Mr. How does how does I like Campanella the first name of yours nor the first one. How did you get. Because you get to do my best to cover Ziggy had a fella who was the editor of The Japan Times who knows the west very well knows Japan and by talking about communism in Asia. About communism in China particularly but also seeing it from Japan. Mr. Heron following in his own opening statement will remind us of one fact that we tend to forget sometimes because we've dramatized everything made it so much simpler than it really is.

We forget that there isn't only. Mirror with India and Mao Tse Tung's China apart from all the other countries are also important but there is also one third great at least in Asia and that's the most industrialized of all the countries Japan. Mr. HARRIS How was Japan by which we'll hear quite a bit while also learning about communism in Asia. Mr.. Obama. I am the son of the ova of Italy. But I'm not I'm just the man born in a possibly educated. But I have to when I speak about coming and I have the bottle of the notice from my mother. Among many John I went online the robotic arm

that told your correspondent of Le Monde a well-known public daily. He's one of the most able European reporter of Asian up here about three years ago after making an effort to our community in China. He wrote a book that tied to all six hundred million. I think the world 600 million and very aptly described the life of the people of communist China today the 600 million and do not have the freedom to choose the occupation they like they are not permitted to criticize their government or to form an opposition party. It has been become impossible for families to live and be together with the creation of the people communal. They just work endlessly like. Calmly China will celebrate the 10th anniversary of it from the asian this

October. In these 10 years the great mark of Chinese people brought about the industrial ideation of communist China assisted by a great deal of technological and economic assistance from probably a union then we are to go. The ratio between industrial production and agricultural production was 2 to 8. Now the ratio is 2 to 3 in the 10 years or with the little communist China how developed it. Air power to the point where it now has. Two thousand six hundred a plane including 1000 get for front line combat you'll see even behind all the observable overleap they are surely not having great fighters on the part of from the Chinese. Or. From the Western point of thinking. The Great Leap Forward is being

made at the factory by not only of the dignity of man and the fundamental human right but of life itself. But the sacrifice made by the amp are completed behind the bamboo curtain are not made known to the world outside my friend. This is Communist China today. We cannot ignore it agree with them. They are come to the question of recognition which you have been discussing every day here. We must not ignore all the impact of the advancing communist China on the rest of Asia. They are comping the economic side of the question. I am going to discuss tonight topic coming from the viewpoint whether Asia is going to fall under communism any father or not. First of all what kind of foreign policy help communist China are being

pursuing now the vivid example of what it is like. Let me describe the changes in the communist Chinese attitude toward Japan. The relation between communist China and Japan in the last 10 years may be divided into three stages the first day began on October 3rd 1949 when the communist regime was formally established and continue for five years until 1954. This period all characterized by the attitude taken by communist China toward Japan the Korean War occurred during this period. The 1950 communist China formed a military alliance with a union. It is clear that this was formed with Japan and the United States at it objectively. Communist

China repeatedly announced that it will not engage in any negotiations for normalization of relations with Japan. So long as you plan that not change it. We the United States and the national government in Taiwan or Formosa. How about. Toward the end of 1954. The Communist Chinese policy toward Japan began to change. Communist China with Japan in the second day. Maybe that characterized the period of the peace offensive. What is interesting about this period of change in the Chinese attitude toward the door Japan in the fact that it coincides with the right and the change in the Soviet attitude toward Japan. Both China and the Soviet Union adopted a stop talking about

the conditions for Racial with Japan. Communist China began to trade with Japan. It began to permit in tourney in China to return to Japan. It was in this period that Japan had an annual trade amounting to 70 million dolla. During this second day premia joined by even announced that communist China it was prepared to talk with the United States on the Taiwan problem. The Far Eastern situation began to move on a path abroad in the union to ship refuted and proclaimed a policy vision. But such a situation in Asia did not last even four years. The third day the third period may be described as a return to the poor. A tough attitude toward Japan.

It was two months two summers ago that but I mean it's like Ethiopia plan made a full model. They did it to the United States and it was about this time that communist China policy toward Japan began to change. It began to be known prime minister saying that he had begun to go in an international conspiracy to create China with all kinds of pretexts it stopped trade with Japan. Now Japan does not have even one cent well of trade with China. Communist China is now an early during the urging the people of Japan to adopt a new drug policy. It is saying that it will not trade with the A-bomb unless Japan broke off relations with Taiwan. This happening

our community Chinese policy toward Japan in line with the toughening of the temple in other area. From our community China suddenly began the bombardment of the I don't care more and much in the Taiwan Strait and it was also last year that communist China embarked upon a big economic often in Southeast Asia. Using trade as a weapon. Then came the incident in Tibet when the people but I battled against communist China repurpose both fearing capture by Commie China. Perhaps the Dalai Lama has tried and failed in India. Now at this point let me put into perspective some of the things I have said papa. The pointer to the prophecy that the big objective of communist Chinese foreign

policy is to drive America out of Asia to put it another way. What a community China is aiming at is to isolate the United States from the countries of Asia and at least to neutralize Asia that take on that. Communist China in obtaining it objective. According to eat communion changing from a tough policy to a peace loving people and vice versa that community China is endeavoring to create a void hell out of them the situation of poor people in Asia. In this respect we would ask after all how much it helped to create it for power. As an example let me state a community event in your band in the 40s that helped him up the wall. The Japan

Communist Party was at the peak of a trend in the period 1949 to 50 of the four hundred and sixty seven seats in the house probably built under them. The communists killed 35 feet up to the time they had no more than five feet at best. And since they have not actually that too. This was the period when the Chinese Communist and his government to Taiwan and took control of the mainland. It was also a period. When the war developed between east and west other the result of the boating blockade and the Korean War. The national economy with Japan Well then at a low point and after five years of occupation the Japanese people were beginning to feel a sense of resistance against American occupiers. With little

situation both at home and abroad working to their advantage. The Japanese community got well headed. They entertained the whole illusion that they are planning for revolution would have created. They overturned railroad station Radio train. They heard homemade one but they are not body focused and engaged in practice it right before an armed uprising. However. In the general election of 1952 the common law. Everyone know the type. Today the Japan Communist Party had only one seat in the house probably wouldn't they and the national number of popular vote it can expect is 1 million the number of ready member of the Community Party. Eighty thousand out of 90 90 million popular a hold of them.

Now at this point let me speak briefly about the color of the ups and downs of the community in France in Japan. I would like to especially point out three factors the international situation the national economy and national level. The Japan Community Party gained in April with mention of the event of community China. When the tension of the coming up over communist China in Korea and Vietnam veteran Nam and contained so also Well the imprint of the Japan Communist Party chapter. Khomeini will again in April when economic conditions were poor in Japan but it lost the pupil when the national economy took an upward turn. When the national sentiment of the Japanese people was against the United States during the occupation. Communities who

are able to use the situation to their advantage. But when the world provoked by communist China that it out well exactly the opposite. The communist experience and record in Japan are not necessarily the same in every respect in Asia as a whole. But I believe they have been basic too. How about other same time between community China and the rest of Asia especially Asia is different from the relation between communist China and Japan. One point of difference is to be found in the economic field. In the case of Japan's economy China India has not caught up with Japan but in the case of Asia. China is far ahead here. We can find the reason why.

From the economic impact of community China it is far greater than in Japan. Another point relates to the problems of nationalism. More all the nations will help if they want their independence. And are sensitive to matter involving national sentiment and they are particularly sensitive to the world and not only all the old colonial powers like Britain from from Holland but also Japan and the United States also upin many other countries all have a common border with China. Other economy do not like the perlite starvation total instability social injustice of total control. Even though people who live outside of there are boundary in the

community are so much a month Asian minded they just cannot be satisfied with a month of their own people. They are quite interested in liberating other nations also. The country where the Communist Revolution was created and all the boundary are adjacent to the Union China or some other country. And most of the country industrially backward and pottery and they will kill unless appropriate measures are taken. Countries which border on common area in Asia are constantly exposed to the danger of communicable. Whole major changes have taken place in many East Asian countries including Indonesia Burma and Thailand. What is common to all of them is a cautious attitude against Red China. Many Western observer of the Asian theme take the view that

they are forming the evil for this attitude. Namely China. Action in the Taiwan Strait. Economy of great economic aggression in Southeast Asia a break up families with them with other people and that oppression of Tibet. I believe that there is a truth in there for you but I feel at the time it is too early to invade that comment. Infants have been put under control in viewing the general situation. There is no assurance of any kind that we now big brother have already. I venture to say that unless appropriate measures are taken for the benefit of non-coms Asia the upcoming We continue in no small degree that we come to the heart of the problem. What are appropriate measures.

I believe that the primary economic law Dr. Ehrhart the economic minister of Germany Japan after touring South East Asia and expressed this opinion. Unless the advanced countries of the free world extend aid for the economic development of Asia more politically than they are doing now. This area is in danger of falling into a communal camp. I suddenly I entertain the same sense of urgency as Doctor provider that the president needed a balance of power between east and west is also maintained in Asia. The mandala that would determining the future of Asia is the economic factor. I believe that one of the vital element in the picture is the competition in economic technological development between Japan and community China.

Japan the powdering her economic development within the framework democracy free enterprise and parliamentary procedure. Communist China is powering its economic development within the framework of common even rigid controlled economy and totalitarianism. If you bomb out in the trade with China I think it is obvious how the count on Asia will be the same it's also true with the competition in there between India and China or Indonesia Pakistan or any other country in it in Asia and China. That or the problem lies not in the object itself but in the means to obtain the objective. The question is whether the advanced countries of the West deep understanding and interest in the problem and own history in building up the temple of economic

development in the key of the world. Evolution takes place of the dead by the advanced countries. It is hard to prevent the Communist about it. And there was our opening look for his evening at Communism in Asia. A well documented one by Mr. Karzai in us Hala. A prominent Tokyo added to. That was communism as viewed from Japan just next door. And from Japan which among the great countries of Asia. Is also officially one of the closest to America and to the west and we have now elections a L and by law. For his party comes from one of the most important of the in-between countries so to speak.

Indonesia. Which manages for the moment to remain a non joiner in a world society where things can be rather tough or non joiners as in any society. And that just might reveal some little differences of opinion with Mr. Han with Allah. In this second opening statement now we accelerate they're going to be much briefer. This first look a brief one by Mr. Allen at Communism in Asia. I'm a Gemini. You know how I have spoken about the inclusion of companies a lot of companies can China on Japan and Southeast Asia and also on a body in Japan and Japan. Mostly. I

want to speak about the influence of communist doctrine. On here and on the impact of the achievements of communist states on the GRO of communism in Asia. In fact Mr Howard has already touch that problem. Then I want to speak about the Western influence. On the influence of communism on Asia. But before doing so I would like to disagree in a very friendly way with news that you are sour. On certain points. In fact I'm not especially going to disagree with him but to the degree of Western observers he is citing here. These veterans of service be a big part

of the attitude that there have been major politic political changes in a year. Including India Indonesia Burma Pakistan and Thailand and that these changes have caused a kind of cautious attitude against Red China and they think that there are these weapon or surface. I think there are horse main reasons for discord here. At you I want to mention them and I said I quote communist China's policy of action in the Taiwan Strait. That is number one. Well I disagree because in my country and not only in my country I think in all the Asian countries that have recognized that China as you call it. Do we don't think that we have to be cautious because the Chinas

because of China's policy of action in the pie one street. No they in fact do you think that China has been provoked to do so and they are blaming the United States for that. I would like to elaborate on that but I don't have time I'm sorry. And then the second thing is a debt. Economic aggression in Southeast Asia should have cost this cautious attitude. Well I must see economic aggression has brought to Indonesia and to other countries which are not yet industrialized. Do you have brought cheap goods today. So do you like it. So we are not becoming quite yes China in fact like China whatever. And then

well about the other two things I think there are three examples given here from Western observers. It may be that other speakers won't speak about that. I mean. I may speak now about the influence of of communist doctrine that is very important. And I want to talk just about one doctrine that is death according to communism granulation is just a child of capitalism. Well I don't have any time again to explain it to you but you extract it from me. Colonialism is according to communist doctrine just a child of capitalism and capitalism is the enemy of communism. So we have to fight capitalism. So we have to fight colonialism. That's why when they support colonial freedoms movement movements they are genuine. They are genuine. Of course we know that they are doing that what their own

say for their own purposes. But when they support granule reduce movements they are genuine and their corporate friends in the colony and these friends many of them they become Communists with Ambien comany. And when they are calmly the Rhapsody and communism and many of them become commies that's the inference. That the other one is. The impact of the achievements of communist states. There are great achievements. Economic achievement the basic problem in Asia is economic. Well I may just mention again one influence. I think my country when my country needed it went to the west

where we are Democrats. We are pulled to the west. We asked for our blood to buy where they say we will think it over and we have been thinking over for years. So we were pushed to the wrong side. And when we came here we said we want arms. We got it immediately. And on to another very important very important international problem that is the problem of better countries in the United Nations. This country's democratic one. You know who I do go on your list to come to this. That is a tragedy. That's a good. Diplomacy event or an act of it. And he said to us in our most important international problem from these countries in

elections. So I do too much of much of your time. I think too much that's for sure you just have to listen to the silence. I am but I think Mr. thank you very much. I think we can count on you to continue in a friendly way to Mr. nearer to the end of the evening. And now we find out from doctor whether he can sort of an in-between position or add something to the complete picture of his agreement. Yet when I first would like to say. That I respect and admire the heroes immensely not only for himself but also because in the course of the last few years I have come to have a great respect and

admiration for the Japanese people but have far more than many other nations. I have come to look upon Japan as perhaps one of the hope of Asia. There are other things which stand in the way and I would like Mr. Chairman to refer to them later. But I do feel that Japan should not be excluded from the big family of Asia as she has been excluded through unfortunate emotional reason the same emotional reasons which are the understanding in the West to Asia at the same cliches and unconscious motives of fear of the Yellow Peril which drives so many Westerners back and back and back again into cliches about Asia instead of into a realistic attitude about gracious great economic needs. First I would like to agree with Mr. Harris our that the primary economic primarily what is unique is economic measure he said. Against communism I should leave these words out because I do not believe in propaganda

for or against. But I should say that all Asia needs and I have been saying it all these days that primarily Aisha's fight is fight against want. He has very rightly pointed out that if we want to avoid communism the only way to do so is increase economic aid on a large scale and not as only a small parcel of goods to be sent to Asia or small private investment which may bring profit which instead of being ploughed back into the economy of Asia may be brought back to enhance prosperity elsewhere in already rich countries. With all this I agree and timing. With his analysis of communism in Southeast Asia I am inclined to agree with Mr Palla with the exception that I would like to say a word about the great fight against communism against communism which has been going on in Malaya and Singapore

and again here I would like to point out that Malaysia and Singapore in this respect are extremely important and as I live there I would like to be given the chance sometime this evening to say something about it. Now I would like to go further forward and talk about Mr. heroes I was beginning opening speech. It is a great pity that Mr heroes now are quoted as Mr. Pollack said. Western observers to reinforce an Asian view of Asia. I feel that this is a weakness and that probably what Mr Hero Sauer did was to try to take this. Picture brought by a Western observer not because he did not know other things but because he felt that this was the way to convince you better in order to bring vividly to your eyes a vivid title 600 million and well I don't know Robert. I met him several times. We are in fact somewhat friends except that we somehow disagree.

And therefore I would like to say that his view of Asia is not of Asia and his view of China is not mine. The people's communes that Mr Hero Salar referred to did not exist in Mr. Gillon time. Now I do agree with him that the people of China have made great sacrifices and I have been speaking about that and control the discipline etc. etc. I think we are all tired of hearing about all that. The alliances that Mr. Hiro sour seems to dislike so much between Soviet Russia and China appears in the light of Russias aid to China completely sensible and I should imagine that if the United States enters into an alliance or England enters into an alliance with another country it would be looked upon as just an alliance and not really directed against anybody I dont see how entering into an alliance proves that you are that it is per se directed against anybody. Finally I would like to speak about Tibet. Mr aggression proves aggressive

intent. He also refers to the Dalai Lama out of his country. I was refused. A. Sharp quick analysis real hard to agree with. And now I think that our fourth panelist mystifies going to embark on a fascinating and far reaching adventure that was his intention I think anyway is a far reaching but reaching into the next few minutes anyway is also a brief opening statement about the ideological

picture that one can try to paint easier right now. Communism and what's facing it what is possible what maybe is shaping up what's emerging what kind of man or society would eventually come out of this Asia. Mr. Rahman. Ladies and gentleman if in these few minutes I can talk to you about the question as to why our question of today is important. I think my purpose of being at quitting. We have been adequately set. The question is. Why is the spread of containment of communism important.

We have heard a great deal the very Drew statement. That Asians waterbed. This is very true. But how do we get that bread. This is the question. You see the masses are hungry there is no doubt about it. But the hard to satisfy their hunger. It is what their intellectual tells them it is the idealist intellectuals who spread communism among the masses. Communism at all ad is very very idealistic venture. The Perhaps the most important practical idealistic venture outside the organized religion. It had its ultimate aim aim to

create a complete society a democratic complete society without the state that he got what it knew how to set about getting that it established its total state a complete state without society. How is it possible to reach a state less society who is society less state. This is my question. There is a study in you know in Britain literature that a man had a heart but he didn't have a saddle so he tied up his heart and went to had to settle. When he got the saddle the heart had run away for good. It lightened to my mind in the very nature of communism to part its very ideal. We have heard a great deal from the

charming lady next door to me. That after 60 70 80 years of communist methods it will be after all OK democracy will be introduced. But we know. What is the kind of evidence on which we can have any land under this kind of concept. After the death of Stalin we know that the Kremlin went through going to listen and tried to produce a collective leadership instead of a dictator. But very I had to be executed. This man had to be demoted. That man had to be told of the law and one man had to emerge. Is it too unreadable to us whether it is possible to create it through the communist method of the communist ideal at all.

Now if you'll permit me a minute or two I'll talk as to what exists in Asia. Side by side are parallel to this. Last night the learned panel talking about the Western influences in Asia and it was said that modernity had flown into Asia to technology quite to what is technology who produces it. How is it produced. How is it do we live. If you and I live a little bit the expansionism I do not mean the political expansionism inland of the West I mean the scientific intellectual and ecological expansionism of the West. You will see

something already can happen to the Western man when he can. It himself from his body was recently moving. This is that something like what is called humanism images that have very different meanings of humanism. Many different definitions but I think we can safely say that humanism is. An Attitude. It's quite a new attitude. Which puts a kind of trust fearing perhaps not too sure of trust in the model and mental power of man even lead to a lot you had to admit that if God works he indeed works through man somehow. Now it is this new

trust this positive attitude which why did it evolve this poncy part of what is known more about NATO. We will let it be in the US is itself undergoing convulsions. And the West itself wouldn't it I would loosen. But it is interesting to see if besides this technology which certainly must go into Asia this kind of attitude this humanism any form of obvious humanism has gone are not. In Asia we find engined traditions traditional societies believe it or not be void of humanism. They had a certain amount of humanism but not some of the humanism by the present day even in Western Christianity before this modern game. The essential struggle there is that

Asia is trying to find its varying to develop it to live Elop into a state where it can find a new produce a new kind of men. I'm not defending humanism. All I am saying is that we it is impossible to produce more energy and to produce technology without this kind of attitude. No end in humanism sponsibility it on men that are great issue that states you have the hydrogen bomb you have the ICBM. You will have the rockets forgiveable of destroying stars and planets that it will leave hands tremble. They sometimes shake sometimes soil occurs but the human drive to recover what about the other side. I'm very good at other things.

This seems to me to be a remarkable difference between the two. When and in this technology and when and in God and in the hands of our tomatoes. Thank you. I. And that completes this opening view of expert opinion an expert differences on the problem of communism in Asia it is viewed by Mr. Rahman and now the subject and the rest of this long and also to all of us all the respectful and expert listeners that we've been following going on an hour now and have to come through pointed questions from pointed and topical questions about communism in Asia that might give our panelists a chance. Every once

in a while to elucidate some of the differences maybe to aggravate them and maybe even to settle some of them. QUESTION Yes Mr. Arafat. Yes of the ones which you are your own question. No I mean you were the first victim of disagreement. You have mentioned the Dalai Lama. I go on tonight although I haven't had the pleasure of meeting personally but I know a little more about about Japan and along and I'm pretty sure I never had extended the invitation to get your pen. We have already too much trouble though we don't like to invite anymore. That's just what I said.

Mr. Chairman in view of the fact that Mr. heroes are quoted with approval the criticism that Mr. Deland in his book leveled against the Chinese with respect to the suppression of civil liberties. I think I should just direct this question to him. What attempts if any were made by Japan to preserve individual individual freedom when it made the leap to transform itself from a feudal state into an industrial state. That's one of the other part of this is respect to the economic offense of the Chinese to which you referred. How does the economic offensive of the Chinese government differ or compare with the. Core prosperity offensive as advocated by Japan just prior to World War 2. If you like to start the first part to hold on to them part time. Our you know their plan took 100 years to get the president. Even though I the other night mentioned we

restarted from the amount of crack in the day about the general thinking our doctor pointed out last night that we had the time to make progress. They buy that with a kind of bribery in the international situation and then it did it and even though we have immediately oppression and suppression but the spirit of. Democracy lead if you are democratic institution remained and that sort of awakening to the democratic way of life will idea or human right started mostly night after the First World War and ducked into the hell it remained and that it has been accelerated since the war that it was.

Kept intact in the moat. They allowed that today we have news here about that second question Mr Carr. The second part of the question was What difference do you see. I think it was between the Chinese economic offensive that you spoke about and the Japanese at the time during the war especially at the Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. Well to my knowledge. I understand the government making government started long a quite a great in a very scale economy so-called often to help the China South East Asia point and under Japanese take their goods. From a bottle of porter and they all had a very quite reasonable condition in the capitalist country can a

computer and played a great part too. To point to point 5 instead of 4 or point in there in the country. Foldable at the top or the economical thing might have been true by some of the countries in Southeast Asia. Have that view. Begin using trade as a weapon. Well mention that good appreciate it. Yes it is all right but somebody out of country might help might help for that. It might be a kind of trade. What grade of all the youth are the kind of weapon and all of a sudden this communist China model stopped the thought bubble. A comical if I don't know why I don't

know. Yeah that is the point. Well in that part of the folklore the course of 30 years. Gold is interpreted as the means to expand and expand to get the so-called incurable. I have to admit it to the outing that they get there and that it is something different. Because something behind it. Different. Things behind it. Like the scene. Of action. I was looking at Dr. Arden I'm sure you have someone that will to agree to disagree with part of what you just said. I mean well I also have to you doctor. Thank you very much. I will be brief as usual. The thing is that I again cannot say how much I admire the people of Japan and how much I see for me the heroes hour who has indeed a very difficult

position to defend because as I said before of the emotional aftermath left all of that due to the unhappy wall between which started with between China and Japan and which ended up with Japan being defeated as you know by America. And I for one would really like to forgive and forget as I said the other day I have no feelings at all against Japan although I do agree that some ition have and in fact I would like again and again to say how much I personally look to Japan to give a lead. Unfortunately Japan made that mistake many years ago of going to war going to war to further aims of industrial expansion and of what she called the greater your corporate Vanity Fair and I think that it is a grueling task to have today to face again to all these things before. However let me only talk about one aspect of this war trait. We have heard of the economic aggression of China. If people

remember but people have such short memories. For years Japan was accused of exactly the same thing that today Mr Here is our accusing China of dumping of undercutting of producing goods much cheaper than Manchester Lancashire than other countries of the west of keeping her workers working 12 hours a day in slave like conditions in dormitories in Japan in order to produce cheaper produce the produce better. In fact the very things that China is accusing it that Japan is accusing China of today. I was brought up on this kind of anti-Japanese. Call it propaganda or call it fact I leave it to you. And not only I but a lot of westerners only some of them of God have short memories because so much has occurred since. Now it seems to me that in Mr. Here is our beach there is one tendency which stands out. It is this he said that China's tough policy toward Japan where trade was concerned relented in 1956

and that China and Japan began to trade and China and Japan had 70 million dollars worth of trade that year. And then afterwards that it changed for the worse. In fact he said Now we do not have one cent worth of trade with communist China. And that seems to be Japan's greatest grievance against China today. The fact that a democratic country like Japan cannot trade with a communist country like China. Thank you Doctor I'm not Mr. Pollard you still have anything left that you can disagree a little time you have with Mr. Ross I want to know them and I have never acquired this Dr. Hans. But I think I should do that now because we have been getting to be a complicated we have only had some of what I wanted to say. Well. I think I shoot myself now. Do what Mr. Hugh how I said that. We cannot make a fancy ass China of Rihanna. It's more politic than

economics. In fact he said it is just politics. Well I think it is more politics than acknowledge that fact. That's right. But me in Indonesia. We are hungry. We have nothing. We want to have cheap goods. We want to have tools. And while we are making use of this you know getting stronger. Of course we are used to running risks. We are prepared to run pieces. That is what I want. Yes except except that I think Mr. Ellis I will when I underline again that he saw something behind it and that I think was there behind that offensive. That was your main. I think we still have to underline that once again and expect another question now maybe about something else other unfortunate Japans outness fortune.