Exploring the child's world IV; Precocious neo-adult

God was a precocious New Adult. Danny is 13. He says that he does not do well because he could do better. If you park your car in his neighborhood Be sure to take your keys when he gets angry. Mother just moves back and pours more water. If a man were going to be left alone on a deserted island one book we surely would suggest that he take with him his dictionary. It contains all the other books ever printed even though the words are arranged differently. Did you ever take time out to study words. Just consider the words that begin with the letters s n. They're mostly nasty words such as sneak snide snipe snap snare sneeze snore snobs Snoeck snout. If you look at a group of adolescents and try to find a letter that would characterize them in part we might look in the dictionary under the letter D. There are words like driving and drink

which would suggest some insights. Then there are words like dress and dope representing areas in which young people find trouble or make it devilment is another D word that can cause adults to be concerned and worried about their children. Some children get over stimulated and precocious in some areas yet one finds it close to impossible to stimulate the same children in the home where they appear to be boneless sick tired exhausted doped or dead. It is difficult to stimulate them in the school where they appear to be disgusted bored distracted uneasy and disinterested. It is difficult to stimulate them in church activities. Here to interview just such a child is father Francis Duff a professor of sociology at Duquesne University speaking from the Allegheny County juvenile court detention home in Pittsburgh. Father Duffy. The desperateness of a person's need usually has nothing to do with the supply and availability

of resources. It is frequently observed that a boy who associates with older boys becomes precocious and overstimulated. He may reject his age and want to be older. He may reject his position in school. He wants to be advanced to a higher grade so that he can be with the older boys in academic advisement. We usually look into four areas the first area we are interested in is the child's ability. This can only be determined by testing. Tests will reveal his strengths and weaknesses. A second area of concern is the child's level of aspiration. We like to see a child aspire at least to his level of ability and possibly a little bit beyond. But not too much. We also like to discover the child's level of achievement up to now. What has he done with the abilities and resources available. Lots of children say they could do better but they wasted their time that they did not apply themselves. All we can

go on is the child's record of achievement. His grades we might even presume that his grades may go down as the work becomes more difficult. A fourth area of interest to advisors is the child's attitude or attitude system. We see all four of these areas explored in the interview that follows with Danny a boy who over aspires and underachievers and who has undesirable attitudes that lead him to unacceptable undesirable even anti-social activities. OK your name is Danny how old are you. Thirteen. What grade are you in school. If. You go to public or procure public how you do in school do you think I do OK. I maintain all BS do you. Yes so it's kind of an honor roll isn't it almost almost I mean in the sports in school. I know I wasn't around when they brought out football. I was

absent on that day. And. I haven't been there. Not too much on last night only she had been cutting school. Oh. Well. I was on. I had a little bit of trouble in school when I was placed on. In restriction and I was in jail band with a genie. Had you running away from school I ran away from home. Well. Why would you want to let you think you know now why you ran away. I got hot and I just ran away. That's when I first came up here and who was the object of the heat. Your mother your dad was my mother. What does she do that you don't like what do you do she doesn't like. I guess I'm sort like kind of lazy around the house I don't like to do housework I mean I can go out. And. Dig in the garden or I can take dirt and plant not anything higher but I can see I don't make the dry dishes are all dust or something way

down the women's work is it. Yeah that's what I figured. And so she gets kind of mad at me when she said she don't and I know it only seems like she's young she's kind of high strung and so on I just got home one day left. You know we did cool off into the police got you. Yes it grew rough after that. And. I mean we came up here and we had our hearing and we got off on probation how many times and you've been here before before this. Yeah I was here once for we store a car you know where you been dirty for you. What was the second time Rob was up there because as I was going to school and I couldn't get into a school I went to descry used to go to after my trial and I don't want to go there because I thought

that I get in trouble because I had some trouble to see a teacher and he says he was going to he said that he was going to fight me when I got into his class he was going to punch your neck Yeah yeah that's what time. That's what he said. Did it help you did I mean you. We me when he's going to flatten you didn't it help in your study did you like school better. No I mean I think. If you like. Wrong I felt I'd better not go back to that school after my trial because I can't I don't know I don't like being pushed out. That's one thing I can't stand and I can take jokes and I can take being cut up by the kid's neck. But when somebody keeps on pushing me and push me away. Was it the same kind of pushing that your mother does. Yes. Other words when people push you they apparently don't like you as I did and you don't do your best work either.

It's not that maybe they don't like me but. They don't they don't think it's you know bothers me is what it is it does. Well do you push people at you like them like them do you threaten to beat them up. No. But if they do these things to you it means what. When they do it to me it just means that I don't know where he's going you know we're going to say to you. Well the media trying to get me to do something. They are also. Not my teacher I know doesn't like me but I don't think that's a reason my mother does. But if they try to get you to do something it appears that they're not happy with what you are doing that's that's most Roman mother and that's another we're saying they don't like us. In a sense yes but I don't see that from my mother I mean I always take it you like to think that she doesn't like you. Yes when she does I think I do too. But then does she have some kind of problem with that she would be taking out an you

know word Suppose I get mad at you and I can't hit you so I hit the door. Do you think that she has a problem which she can't handle so she takes it out being 19 you remind you to do things that you remind you before we have a good many kids in our families do we have sex and I guess you know she one makes her mad you know and she doesn't get mad at the other one does something and they get a little worse in the first one then. And it just you know by the time it gets back to me you are probably the last one then I get at the roast and she's pretty well burned up. She's used her energies up on the other one yes or she's used her patients up on. Yes it lands on you. Most of the time where you fit in the family. How many are older than you. Three orders to me and two younger to you and your three boys and three girls. That's a little bit and weird. Oh yeah. You fits right in the middle brightly

presents and how old is the youngest one. Took you know I was the oldest one 21. And that's a boy or girl boy. He's pretty much on his own. So he doesn't have to make any contribution around the house. Well he usually he goes out the morning to work. Nick comes home late supper and he doesn't come into maybe three o'clock in the morning or something like Yeah except on weekends. He must not really like it too much there either. Well he likes it here I mean he's never left he's not I can't say exactly on his own I mean if my mother tells him he's not allowed out or something which he doesn't do usually. I mean if he has to stay in the watch the baby or something and he usually has to do it that he is pretty much on his own and that if you know your niece is close around there on that Saturday sometimes he doesn't get up to maybe three o'clock in the afternoon you know and then she starts yelling tell me a very something that happened when you were a little boy

before you started school. Whatever happened back in those days you know would be three older than you and you. Well what happened. Nothing really happened I mean it was just like the way it is what you see with other brother this is a you teaching that as if I don't then you enjoyed it. To help you. I don't think so. I wonder what he did. Last I guess I do to my own brother now. You know what this is makes him you know an object of ridicule. And when they didn't do you didn't like it. You think he likes it. You know I think he did it to me said what's going out of hand. Well did you ever have anything kind of exciting happen or anything stands out your mind or especially embarrassing or funny or happy or sad when you were little. Well I hadn't when I was I lived down south side and down near everybody was pretty much the same and you know everybody was friendly there

and so I mean it was nicer down there. But we moved up to seven years ago and you know the people up there they think they're better than you. They haven't accepted you yet. Well I don't know nobody's friendly up there I got my down south side you know you can be rockin down the street you know people be set on their sidewalks in the summer on their chairs you know and talking to neighbors not to but up and I place everybody stays in themselves. When you feel that you aren't wanted you either fight or you run. Well in the summer and mostly see now I'm only 13 but I've been around with the older kids and they were. More premature and I was here maybe 15 16 years old now and. I don't I always wanted my scene to be like that and I think

that's where a lot of my problem is because now I want to go to school. And I wanted to get into rock sounds Catholic. I wanted to go and I wanted to go back this year with the grades you get you will be able to go. Yeah but I'm going to go this year. You know when I clearly need everybody either looks forward to looks backward younger people tend to look forward you know to what you're going to do or what they're going to be. We want people look backward and they'll tell you about their first date or their first job. You don't live in the past. Young people tend to live in the future. I think what you have to begin to do is make a combination of present past and future. Yeah and when I like. If I could I wanted to go to a progressive school because I'd like to graduate with the kids that I love around with but that would mean a lot I have to finish school twice as fast and I think that if I'd have the chance that I'd work at it because that's something I really

want. But when you ran away and got into trouble it's slows you down but it's cool. Yes but I don't have a chance of doing it over net school. Because I'm going to just a regular school where I can go no faster. But when you're in detention you're you're going even slower than the slow school. See I. Was sorry. I figure. If I get out on my own I thought maybe I could do it you know. But at 13 you can't be trusted to be on your own. That's. That said I'd say against a loan that was good you take a car to take off. Yes and you used to own one. How did you get her going. With the keys and he was a new nation. Was at the first when you took know there was two before that. How do you get those going there to tease him. It might be wise for people to take the keys you know so

if you know you can't resist a car with keys and get you and I credit what do you think has changed that it would make you give up. Running away and taking cars and this place place mostly I'd never want to come back here again. We're here before I was here for six days I was here from January 29 to the 4th of February. No one nothing you knew littler longer treatment. I wasn't here for anything I did exactly just until they tried to get me in to the another school. And. I guess. You did I'd try. I mean I don't try my best you know. I mean I never studied as long as I went to school. I never brought a book home so far and I still been able to maintain B. Well imagine what would happen if you took some books home and looked at them. That's what that's what I thought maybe I can make it be more progressive.

And that's why I mean I never told anybody before. You know I want to tell me how I already did. But that's. My money ambition or less is. To get up with the kids that I loaf around with. And I mean if I could have the chance I think I'd I'd really try most of them are 15 or so years in a span of two years and catch up to them. I'd like to see like take maybe it would be take two years in the time of one year. Well hide it well it's possible it might be good if you sit down and figure out what can I do in the event that this doesn't work out I don't get my own way. So I'd like to be an admiral in the Navy too. Oh that's weird. I mean. If somebody would give me a chance. And then I'd feel at that chance you'd feel worse.

I don't think I would at least I know that I had a chance it was my own self that messed it up. I would say this well you can always keep your own what they call a person's self image to self image is this if I could get a chance to fly a plane I could be the best flier in the world. Well I can keep that idea in my mind as long as I never step into a plane at the controls. But if I do step in and crash now what you see here worse I think. Yeah but that's something that you. Did you have with you for life. This is only something that I beat you with us since I graduated high school. I mean because when we no longer have it in my mind I said already be out. Well beyond is what you want to be when you grow to be an engineer. I want to go to college you mean engineer. And. I mean I was going to go out for football and see if I could bury myself in it and went out for. I got my mouthpiece and my physical and all that.

You know no I wasn't dear I don't know does not deal with being an engineer always bringing the books home. You think help you when I was when you used to love football. You know what I was going to try to win a scholarship so I could get into college. Well I think if you do well in mathematics you more chance to get an engineering scholarship than you would if you were a good football player. Well that's my best subject is math and English and that's why. But you could do better in both you haven't hit your ceiling in the year it was did you know I make B's a math and B's in English an A on my report card I always have zeroes and after they always say I'm not try and you were trying to your people or you know I mean I don't know why. That's the stuff that we're having in those two subjects. I catch on real easy. But still the teacher really takes it you're not working up to capacity. Yes I mean what would it take to make you work up to your capacity. Well.

Something that I could get ahead by working I mean the only thing that I'm getting now if I brought books home and worked and that I make I just make a great hire and it would just be an a I mean I wouldn't get no more glory but or anything. You mean your achievement would have a better showing you that you'd show better in achievement if you were to get A's and you were just a good BS. Plus the fact that the man puts down zero for attention and effort. Yeah but I couldn't. What gets me is just if I come home from school and if I took books and studied you know on my I mean I wouldn't get nothing better except just a little grade on a report but I mean it doesn't bring me anything now material. Yes no well you see you're in a preparatory stage now and they're going to judge you pretty much on how you would cheat and even if your grade and you say you could pull it

up and I kiss you good but you're not doing it because you feel that you can't go any higher than that or this doesn't do anything in the short run you know the immediate return. You're going to return you say when you're 22 not when you're 13. Well I'd like to get that. That's why I wanted to go to a private school or progressive school where I could but you could do better in a school you are already in. Yes but I couldn't get no higher in leverage like like if you go into the service or something in Iraq and hard and they see that they you know next time it comes up you go up higher with the other kids just stay there I mean that's something to work for there I mean you're working to get a prior They can either stripe or something and that's what if I went to a different school I think that I could work there and of course if there if it's a progressive school and if it's geared to higher than you're doing now and you're going to be only in

the slower traditional school if you go to progressive school you dropped into the sea. Yes but if I had tried I mean I beat chai and I take my books home and then I would have something to study for a year but that is seen very often we think in terms of is that you were not going to radically change if you're not trying here you wouldn't try in the place it would be much more difficult in the school. And if you're not trying in a school where you can make it and you find your own almost impossible to keep up with the other kid you probably give up altogether. He's probably have I think I have a little more of my you know personal thing to get out of it. What I'm saying is what when you put more personal thing in this one. I don't know I said I can when you know he said I know you're holding back though and they sense this. I don't see get anything out of it actually.

I mean this way if I go to a school where I can maybe you know go in today after I worked in I got to stuff that they were giving us you know I did keep on. Putting you further ahead now. Because you know of course at the moment you don't deserve to be any for the heat and you're you know you don't try I'm not it's cool when they give us stuff to do. You know like an assignment no give us time in class. I finish an assignment maybe 10 minutes and we got a half an hour to do the syme and that's what a lot of my trouble is I mean if I beat another school. Did put to put me ahead and I'd be getting something out of it then I'd be keeping up with my head I'd. Be you know going to the other kids. But now I want I have to do is just sit there and it gets me in trouble that when you think one reason why you want to be ahead in school is you know anywhere else you want to hit home. I mean you hear kids say that they don't like school. I mean if I could get around

it and still make you know. Make me get a job in it and make good money. I mean I don't think I'd go to school. I mean if I didn't need it you give up engineering. Well. Not bad but if I could get into engineering without going to school you know. I mean did you have to go to school so it doesn't bother me going to school I mean I don't hate it or anything. I mean I want and I don't quit. It Down. I like to go and see make the best out of. One way to make the most of the next we build you know the one you really are the one I'm in. I was in when I came in here. I came in seventh grade. I went to a park or a Catholic school before that. And. I mean I got to stuff. In and I had a lot of time to disclose.

You took advantage of that and moved around. I goofed around in the lingo stealing a couple cars but I think this was last year. And then when I came back to sure I was starting to rise up the ladder I wasn't quite you know completely changed and then when I got hurt at home and I just left and I figured that if I could get far enough away that I could I could get into schooling myself. Maybe you know progress in that you are a bit harder now you didn't work out that plan didn't work. You know so I mean I have to make I have to go to where I'm going now I mean it's almost what I dreamed on it he said. Almost shouted No. When you can change a dream I don't know that's something I always wanted. I mean it's not exactly nothing it's for at least I. Know some kids dream that they want a nice big car and I just you know. And souped up.

I mean this is. I don't think it's a silly thing. Of course you're going to get so heated but the upset at home is interfering with your school and your vocation as well. That could be inner US school where I'm going to lose an affair with my family like how does your dad fit in with all my dad I like I like an awful lot. I mean I like you too. Yes my dad he doesn't Howard he'll talk to you now. And when my mother has always had me he tries to explain you know to me. My mother's home and I mean it here you know it's a pretty so sprightly explanation does it account for the ways you ours. Yes I think if somebody I mean I think kids when I feel this way but mostly when a guy you know will talk to square not home or I go over in school and if he'll give me a chance in some way I guess I'm more or less listened on but if he gets up you know starts hollering at me you know I just don't pay no attention to them how it doesn't help you know and you just ignore it

mostly because that's what I do with him home to my mother he gets on she starts showing you know. And I mean I just usually ignore it. But my dad and my dad I think me and my dad are really real close but we don't think he can get the message over to her the home does not you. You know I I mean she's just that way and I mean it's hard for her to change. So who's going to change to improve. I just my mother. I mean now. Well they're trying to figure out whether it's wrong with me or with my mother. And to going to give us some advice that my mother is supposed to go down tomorrow afternoon to say it is your mother and he probably thinks he's good to me. I think it's mostly you know my father would have for me and her for the other half. I would like to express my appreciation to the Honorable Bennett Rogers president judge of Allegheny County Juvenile Court. Miss Ruth Greenwald chief probation

officer. Mr. Harold I'm a our director and announcer Mr. Fred McWilliams our chief engineer for making these programs possible. And lastly I would like to thank the children who helped all of us in our efforts to help them help themselves in their struggle for a place in the healthy society of tomorrow. You have been listening to exploring the child's world lead a program in which the child speaks. Father Francis Duffy Professor of Sociology at Duquesne University has outlined the features of this world and conducted the interview with the child. This has been a production radio services a dangerous and technical direction right Fred McWilliams your announcer has been doing. This program was distributed by national educational radio. This is the

national educational radio network.