Exploring the child's world III; You got to be violent

I am. Exploring. When a story breaks in the newspaper about a juvenile getting into trouble some ask with heat and hostility. What is the juvenile court doing if one observes the operations of such a service. He will see what it is trying to do. It tries to change attitudes and provide motivation to children and adults. This is a difficult job even for psychologists. Juvenile Court tries to tighten renew or revive emotional and social ties between children and their parents siblings church school and community to discover facts on which to base treatment

treatment that may be remedial supplemental enriching corrective and at times custody or the court can only act in the fall to the parents by trying to put personal and social nerve blocks into operation by developing inhibitions in children by utilizing control or by encouraging self-control which we call discipline. It tries to remove occasions and opportunities for trouble from children's paths. In some cases it removes that child from poisonous atmospheres that defy improvement and places him in a protective. Finally it offers probation service including observation critique and encouragement. A sort of warm hand on the shoulder or interest. We must keep in mind that the court rarely deals with children in advance of failure here to interview a fairly typical male delinquent child his father Duffy a professor of sociology at Duquesne University. Professor Dima is correct in saying that the juvenile authorities do not get children in advance of

failure. It should be pointed out that 19 out of 20 children never get into serious trouble. That is serious enough to call for police action. The boy in this interview was Danny a 15 year old white Catholic boy who was a dropout from school. He says that he's a Catholic but this does not curtail any of his misbehavior. One way to look at this boy is to regard him as a product. He became violent because of a series of experiences and because he reacted to them in a particular way. But you're about to hear a. Homecoming a little bit. Home. And family. Was take my mothers she said. I think my grandmother hears six of us all year where you don't see my dad he killed or. Did she get married again when. She got married again and married for four years and they got separated. We can get along you know you can get along can you get along. Yes or. How old were you when you first got in trouble.

For it and I got your question. What was a legend of first. Come a time when. I was asked with so for for my friends. I don't mention a name now. We would rather not after it. My friend he said I think you're chicken a rock I'm such a lay person I said and I said no I'm not I'm logic and he said Go and do it for just one of those legit. Make you free important time. Please drop me down in juvenile court memos next bus and avoid him for doing his years. Let's remember. It was pretty rough up there. And then what happened you go out of your bank school again. It went to 11 grade English guy I know it's an age of Mischa's year language eat your day free you're actually doing nine hours a week if they come on down I drive I'll ride you down. He wrote me down.

And you got how you get in trouble. I went out I had a couple bottles of beer in it with a little cafe his guy gave it beer wine I drink and I came home and I don't feel too good. Well go study and I mean I got mad. My grandmother she jumped into it she had me marching in the blood and I want to defend myself from him in an area. You're very much media interest and they probably don't even know already this one award. Two times been in trouble for the personality of your grandmother. What else in between. Not enough. About tell me something happened when your real little. Was really the earliest remembrances I got I got hit by a car and I had an operation on your hand if there. Was your brain damage you didn't you know

fractured skull you know what happened after that. Then I went I went home I got in a little bit I wanted to read to children for you guys and the children in the Bradley back. What was it for you find out. Not only were they familiar for you my grandfather he was good Norma mother she still with her friends has been you know. And. I don't order of them he had relatives some trusted my going there is me as if I was a baby. First husband when you find. Somebody you. Know her first cousin was my father. Now he I don't know that he didn't like me but he had because I don't I don't know how or. I regret is not remembered. But how do you think it was now when you think back on. I don't know. I think my real father here want me

he didn't he didn't want other children if they got adopted. Do you have any been adopted now. Your frame are adopted already but if they don't with you you know. I don't really care. And how do you happen how did you happen to pick you out and make you. My grandmother she said that she will never hear me the clothes every fifteen years my grandfather and him at my grandfather passed away my grandmother she kept me my mother she got married to this man and they were out there live and they can get along here and they always fight a much bigger man one day and said she will divorce. As she would record. We're getting a divorce and was he nice to you. He was very nice to me. When I was happy when you really know you Camembert. When I say that children from one time they had taken to the hospital because I had a strange day I think I felt I got to hear it you know just

going down. Convulsions here. Had the doctor ever a serious test. And who's a bad one. Family. Me. What kind of boy are you really good boy. You likeable. Young likeable I got lots of friends but a girlfriend whispering. Don't you think you're a little far from the get in my closet. Secondly or something of our little room think your leader the bigger ones the bigger ones like a leader to class put away before they start a new life that every good idea of the rest when you know it felt like ages old and that when you put away to an institution when you come out or you can be. Among your kids. Do they regard you as worldly wise smart and. Sophisticated in a measure only you know what label on everything that ever

were or were just the same friend because they were in the same place I've been before. So my friend they were in a place before two nice kids seem to want to buy with you have you will go with you do things to get. Here. I nation of. And you couldn't stick it up for another year in school graduate. Just wanted you shit on bugging me he got real I got real mad at he got me real mad one day he slapped me and I got my last lap and that he took me to the principal's office and I said 115 I quit anyway and it walked out when I was here a few I do went on the shelf I kill lots of kids they got rich and. Established around me that they thought mention me. How about in the home. Too much criticism out there like you friends like you.

You're a lot like my friends like you to. Hear. From a Brit how are you considering we're just around Christmas. Well they're mean much. They're just a bunch of it are a bunch of mean kids you get you're not handle yourself if you really get anything out of them. What I mean. More your family. How in a tree that you really are in a play like you. Yeah they like me. How they show that. They should love and appreciation. You if you're wanted there and you're welcome here but there was a time when you weren't wanted. I don't most of whether or not when you're finally followed it much later want me out all around him. If you don't care much about him. Well I love my father. And he loves me but only here. He'll be round here like kids. That's kind of strange for a man with war here.

Do you have difficulty liking people too. No I don't and if a clerk and people said it make up will mean different than me I was friends with them. Do you live in a very nice neighborhood or. Similar in a snit ridden Maritzburg. Would you say are high class people or middle or average or working class or low class. I think you're high class and you tell me what I thought of you know how do you distinguish high class from middle class home over. There. They're OK toward me but I don't write ordinary don't let you know when I get around to the people who know it I question everything. What was the worst fight you ever had. Skiers were scared like cars coming in we don't have trash which cannot let it stand in the middle road came around I knew I think and you're thinner than me not me afterward the guy next door to the guys thought.

Do you think the kids who get in trouble like you build trouble have in here you think they're different from other kids like tradition. What do you think they would need to make the more you feel will be better. Yeah I think. What would you be better for. Or maybe better you know. If I go home the A's have got a guide and go to church every Sunday we go recently. And will for a long time and we start I want to go because I came here as it helped it's helped you something here coming and you're not too worried about how you can turn up. Whatever did Judge get me and. Take my shit and when I get out of the wagon or she jump to Georgia to net. I'm literally for you just let me know she really or do a twenty second to I have my hearing and I think they're in let me go home with her to me today

in a travel size yours. Will you travel this time was losing your temper and he and he saw me. She hit me first. And she she had me in her cell. He rushed at me in a rush I mean different it mother. He started swearing at me. I get I try to push my hand back my girl as she got away and I hear you who deliberately I won't even try to hit her. I just truck after I get out the door but I. Had a friend of you know up against. My wall. One of the things that happened you weren't really fear. Like that was unfair or to argue with that. And I wasn't sure what was really just a just a piece of you know handcuffs on you with handcuffs on you. Can You don't seem scary or take advantage of you. Yeah. I was not. Sure if this is you know big devil's going to get you.

The interview you have just heard took place when Danny was 15 years old. Now he's 16. He has joined a gang he has begun to drink with an adult who is trying to persuade him to rob a bank. Danny has become more aggressive and violent. Of course he doesn't recall a total contents of the previous interview which you just heard. So in this one he adds information he contradicts some of his previous statements and he gives evidence of following a new pattern in his life. Here is Danny again at the age of 16. Your name is Danny. Yeah how would you do it. Sixteen. YOU STILL IN SCHOOL AND I COULDN'T 12 grade and what happened that you quit when I graduated. Caribbean for quitting for three I'm either up for it. It is just the first time you've been here you know how many times we hear you think.

Five. Was of course the last time when you do last time. Still in cars we with other boys to do this. Yes with other boys today get picked up too. They got picked up one got into more games and you don't go off into ideal. Are you a leader or your follower you think I'm a follower. And if you had better friends what would happen. Boys who didn't do cars we think would happen in one day in your den. You really think you would. I'm a lady have been here maybe I would never live in your street fighting. Oh you've witnessed to sometimes is as a gang organization when it's an organization yes. What's the name of the organization. Her boy golf and how many are in it. Three hundred. Right or. Is it a regular organized gang in a city here. You're very

literal meanings in everything we all got our car and everything. Each one has a car or there's a car for every four or five at the corporate or five year and if you don't have one they steal one but he has let my get. Other girls he's going to see you. Do you have room walls do you go around fight other kids from other gangs. Anybody get hurt. Sometimes if I'm here for sometimes. Do you carry any kind of weapons when you're in a gang. Or carry out night hunting. What are some of the other ones carry. Guns carry black Jackson say a couple of carrying knives and he carry these dulcet the soldiers use he carry em belts they ever catch a kid and beat him up were come over from the other group here. Some security bit of a blanket and shit shit of people. Only me didn't hear a lot from the other girls and you have to

majority or majority are girls. Are they pretty rough girls. He had a pretty rough get along with them. Did you do any drinking in the gang or by yourself. I didn't drink and when they were friend of mine. But 26 years old he got thrown in the county jail and I got thrown down here in general court. Was it fun while it lasted or not so funny. No fun why laughter Yeah. I don't know what I've done. And suppose you went with another group of kids and they all went to school and they want to finish school maybe go to college you think that's what you do too. I don't know if I did or not I was going to join the Marines. And I want to join the army came here as I would join him and do you think that maybe the aggression in the Marines that they're always fighting is that way to actually to you know to fight legally and to fight legally. Sometimes I like to fight legally good street fight but you like a good street fight sometimes can't always fight with you

to have you gotten cut up or beaten up if you had a kind of myself now. Well for five of them and is that one part of the reason why you're here. You got into this fight and you got caught up what happened to the other person. Well we're as in a brownie eyeliners I protect my girls. Miss Crawford from again that girl from the gang I go around with I tore away different ways that kids need to mess around with her so we got into a fight but there's no drug I mean and I have got on. And did he do something to you too. What do you do to get my side of my leg. The razor just came slashing at me with. How old were you when you start to get into trouble Danny. Seven and seven years old what do you do then and it was so bad the little I could own listen my grandmother as did my grandmother. You're going to get everything I wanted. So I took it for granted I could have it. And why was your grandmother involved in you have a mother and

my brother got killed the second Roebourne never even seen him. Your mother married somebody else. She's married twice but she didn't stay with him. I want to live with him but I can get along with him. He didn't like you you have to play him like me. Did he have any children of his own. Four. They're all boys are boys and girls mixed boys and girls mixed or any of the married ones very you know the New Jersey now. Could you go live with her. And you think a little with her if I wanted to. And would you want to get away from all these gangs and stepfather who doesn't like you. I think I want a New Jersey get a bigger state get a bigger operation of gang to me so that I get involved deeper. Why have these boys ever killed anybody that you know that I know of. Yes. They don't fight to kill people they give try to draw blood.

If you do not throw one of the guys you know and you had the whole gang you had to get you're going to get any other guy to get their game together if I had to take out a meeting place in a fight sometimes you can your car and you play chicken trade for the jet or after road you want to fiddle like a lone wolf. You like that that's pretty exciting. You thought OK. And what was the second time you got in trouble. After you were seven years old. And I put it on there. Children from the day light. They're like you there. You get along well you know stay there for four years and was it nice here. It was OK. I don't know kind of a ferry ran away one time. Today kids take advantage of you and I have learned to take advantage of what you have had to fight your way along. And now that you're with the group you are more powerful and you have these other kids to back you up or you back them up. They don't have to back me up. I fight my own bras.

Sometimes you lose here and then what was the third time you're in after that after that situation. Don't callers and how how old were you when you started stealing cars. 13 14 Don't you get scared or do you get excited or what. When you take a car don't excite me oh and ride around all day. Ride around the 2 or 3 hour take of my girlfriend go for a ride ride around for about 4 or 5 hours just leave it there. Catch a bus back home. Aren't you kind of scared when you're in it when you see a policeman or a policeman pulls and bank unit car. If people are learned from if they try to stop you when you keep going keep going until they shut and if they shut What will you do it's done. And then what was the fourth time that would be the last time you're in is your fifth time in what was a fourth time what did you do this. Drunk and disorderly conduct. We with some adult and in man. He's 26.

It's kind of strange that a 26 year old man would power around with a 16 year old boy. But he kind of gangster that he was he trying to line you up for some kind of a job the people he lined everybody able to judge of what he want to do. We were on me when I could knock off a bank. Really. Yeah. And were you planning on doing it. We planned on a day I came into place and you have you drop the plan or you still intend to do it I don't know I got to talk to when I get out. You're still going to do it I don't know. Well I think part of your trouble is that you hang around with the wrong people don't you. And some of them got a younger me some 13 and 14 and when they get to be your age how bad will they be going to be OK I guess you think so there's a couple kids any idea today. Well with 70 other with nine

dead in your first term fruitcake I know pretty good in my neighborhood. We're working up. It's very crowded there were we ever in institutions have an institution thoughts before. We leave I don't home boys home you know what I came. But out there for three years I'll take your vote you're good. Yeah they were bringing up the fact that you're the link with the review you got to make you embarrassed yourself time to do what do they say. They had wanted to sit down and behave in a language that hurts. Yeah. And for 16 you had to do an awful lot of fighting just to. Make your way alone in the world. Yet how about the girl that you have is she nice and she's OK she don't go for the gang fighting stuff she has done here is Coral and get a camel. Is you Jewish girl.

She had read and which car that. Is used that father beater does he beat kids up. To try to beat me up one time that I turn the tables on him he didn't know what he's getting into and what you do to him. Take him up and slammed on the floor. You seem to be pretty mad person per your angry really angry aren't you. But you get involved in a lot of violence you do clown things violent fun you have violent friends that you actually got to be. Try to be a good guy and dad to Ron tried take a big fly with you. Do you ever try to be real good. I tried a couple times you know how you work out. I had a broken arm. How about the church do you bother with church and go to church every Sunday. Do you categorise and care that Catholic new government week and every week. Well does those

who interfere with and you correct it. Well you're through with an emo activities a lot of my friends go to school. I just play like girls for most of all. Church or school yard. And he stormed school. Is she still in school she only 15 years old. You never run away from where you know right away once how far did you go. And about a hundred fifty and thirteen. We used dealing on the way. Still the cup was filled with Dylan Carson Elaine is leaving him. You steal one and run out of gas you drop and pick up another. We never got caught or do we came back on the next day. Do you think there's a chance you straighten out. I guess there is. How would you go about straightening out. First I'd try to get in the Marines or the army something to fund service I.

Mean you think things would work themselves out and they can work themselves out to be ever before. A couple times I did I thought I was in the you know court here for four months. So I was pretty good never got any trouble at all. My friends were here. I mean it came in and out and going home and everything. I think if you got a new set of friends your life might be a little better for you. Yeah. It's about time you go to bed. You know. We're going to have to go in you know. All right. All right. Anything else you want to say. It would appear that Danny has on him the mark of violence. I don't know that we have yet devised a suitable formula for rehabilitating such a young man. It would require the cooperation of experts to convert this boy's activities and attitudes into wholesome channels. Having heard him we get a little insight into what kind of

boy he is. In regard to remedy the first step might be a referral for psychological testing. This has already been done his full scale I.Q. is 97. The next step would be psychiatric evaluation. And this too has been done. He is not psychotic but he does give evidence of suffering from deep privation both personal and social. The psychiatrist feels that Danny is operating on a collision course. He needs what we might call midyear therapy. But the question is can he recognize understand and accept efforts to change his life patterns into socially acceptable ones. We do not know at this time what steps are being taken to place Danny where he will be safe while this is taking place. The general community will be safe also for Dan. He does seem to have the mark of violence on him. And it may become volcanic in proportions. You have been listening to exploring the child's world. A program in which the child speaks. Father Francis Duff a professor of sociology at Duquesne

University has conducted the interview with the child and to find the outlines of this world in the summary that followed. This has been a production of the radio service of Duquesne University in cooperation with U.K. and sociology department technical director Fred McWilliams program director and announcer. Our older man listen again next week for another in the series exploring the child's world. Was. The preceding program was made available to the station by the National Association of educational broadcasters. This is the end E.B. Radio Network.