Behind the Classroom Door; 32

The topic on this week's Behind the classroom door from Northern Illinois University is College of Education is foreign languages in the curriculum where why and how much. Here's the moderator Dean Robert Taft up foreign languages in the curriculum of concerned the schools for generations I'm sure. In fact earlier schools taught Greek and Latin which nowadays aren't called formal languages but classical languages and these have rapidly tapered off in popularity. On the other hand there's been a real upsurge in the application of foreign languages to the grid in the public schools particularly of recent years. Even still you have to ask the question why should we teach foreign languages. And where should we teach them. I'd like to comment on the upsurge or give you a few statistics on this. I know at the elementary school level from kindergarten through sixth grade foreign languages in the schools grew from about 5000 in the United States

up to in one thousand forty one to 300000 in one thousand fifty seven. How do you account for that. Well I'd want to know what's behind this great upsurge and interest in foreign languages. Well of course a team after World War Two and I think that probably World War 2 may have had a lot to do with it. You know through this business. The fact that the United States is vitally concerned worldwide that the need for cultural understanding. Is viewed as great value and some people fear what the teaching of foreign languages and the elementary school where or help in terms of cultural backgrounds are understanding U.S. of course a big upsurge came in one thousand fifty seven.

And I think that was the year that Sputnik went up and that was the time that the people began to ask what can we do in American schools to produce more scientists and more intellectually elite people. Well but I'm wondering we aren't trying to justify a foreign languages on the basis of mental discipline that you study foreign languages just because they're difficult and they are difficult. Perhaps there was an element of it even in the picture at that time. I certainly could not support the idea that you teach and learn foreign languages just because it's a difficult mind stretching subject. No I don't think it's. A Bob. I think that in addition to cultural understanding. About objective there's another. And this one has to do with increasing. Human beings access to man's knowledge. We know that banks most of those knowledge in the word in the written

word. And knowledge of more than one language. We might assume gives a human being. Access to a greater amount of knowledge. Well of course the argument about that Wally is that anything worthwhile has been translated into the English language Asian and others might add and who uses his his foreign language after requires it. People who take two or three years of foreign languages in the high school discover when they visit Spain or France or Germany that they can't still can't speak the foreign language. MT I wonder if this is more because of the way a person was taught. I wonder if a person who follows the modern oral oral attack me probably is better off as one is going to better off in Iraq you know.

I think the increase in travel abroad and foreign contraries has a lot to do with the greater interest in foreign languages. Today. They say that several millions of Americans travel abroad each year and we hear that each year more Americans visit France than are studying French in the public secondary schools of this nation and that more Americans visit Latin America than are enrolled and Spanish study in the same high school. So perhaps the studying of a foreign language in the secondary schools or the colleges actually motivates people to explore the world further because along with this study and the reading of the language you get the culture you're going to feel for the people of that land then there's a better understanding and deeper understanding then you get in just reading about it.

Those countries Well apparently these statistics I just mentioned show that the lack of a knowledge of foreign language is not much of a barrier so far as foreign travel is concerned that these people make their trips abroad whether they have knowledge of the foreign language or not. Well this is a serious question and I'm sure that none of us in education want to go headlong into the teaching of foreign languages when there are many other things to be done to them but peculiarly with regard to the so-called last foreign languages f al e s and Lloyd you've been acquainted with that or at least are Wolly can you react to the SST idea. Foreign languages in the elementary school I understand California bashed a state law that Spanish had to be taught in the sixth or seventh grade to all elementary school children and well I think because of these

reasons. The need for better cultural understanding and greater access to knowledge. And then. Reason local reasons. I magine one of the reasons California did what they did is because there perhaps is a large Spanish for example of. A speaking group of people where this is true whether we know these. And I don't know these reasons but I think the studies are shown about. A child can. Master better. Than the conversational. Aspects of language and adult gap. People like asylum. Have encouraged the teaching foreign language at a pre-adolescent level. I think there's no question about what young children acquire linguistics more quickly but there also is another study Wolli. That shows that two

languages being learned at the same time during those formative years of let's say from first grade through the fifth grade. Interfere with each other. And this study the results of this study I wish I could cite the researchers but I can't know the results of this study indicated or the recommendation was that they should establish firmly English usage. If they're English if they're speaking English American or English students they should establish their own language first. And them tackle the foreign languages if they attack a lemon off. Wow. I know there's been studies like that but I think that opinion is divided on that Bob. I'm sure of it and. I think there have been studies on the other side of the coin. That both of the operations studies of both languages at the same time increases facility in both of them. Now we know

of. Oh I think for example a case of my grandfather for example. Or not my grandfather my my wife's grandmother who was a Norwegian there that is his his parents were in our wages and he was raised. With them and they spoke in our region all the time. Now this didn't impair. You know he could speak Norwegian very very fluently and this didn't impair his proficiency with English and I think this is been the case. I think there's countless cases like that. I know in the past that two years of study of foreign language on the high school level has been acceptable but ask experts tell us that four years should be the minimum of study in a single foreign language. And there are other authorities who say that study of a foreign language should be continued for eight 10 or

12 years. Well that means that the foreign language would have to begin on the elementary school level as you were saying while I. Think Later on I think that modern language people are emphasizing in this whole movement is that if foreign languages are started at an elementary level that this should be a coordinated action and I cooperate of well-organized action between the elementary school and the high school. And not only well-organized but it should be carried out by adequately trained teachers. This is fundamental because they feel that foreign language instruction carried out by teachers who are not adequate trained. May do more harm than good. And it's from this that we get people who have their fractured French so to speak for all are used and and

and a poor experience. The thing that they press further is that the beginning teaching him a foreign language with young children should definitely be a pleasurable experience and a highly interesting experience. And that anything concerning grammar should come later. You know it's hard for us to imagine those of us who took foreign languages 20 or 30 years ago of foreign languages being particularly pleasurable for most of us they were just difficult routine rote memory exercises and it was a rare individual who enjoyed foreign language and it's for this reason that the old methods those old methods are recognised as being ineffective and that. This is not the way to how us not our language taught in the form of the foreign languages laboratory's work Wiley what does this add to the teaching.

Well listen this is simply following the technique of oral oral Now what is a laboratory consist for and well it has your phones and records all of the children can listen in and exchange ideas through this. Well of you. Yes and as I understand it a child can. After he speaks he can hear him self. And so forth. I mean it's well motivation is important in any subject. There's no question about it and we've made a lot of mistakes in the teaching of foreign languages. And I suppose the movement toward using a foreign language from the beginning when they started many years ago although I think there are still teachers that are not following this procedure but are using the more rote procedure of studying grammar as Wiley mentioned they stressed the need today for the student to hear the Foreign language spoken

by a native. And of course in many communities this is not possible. And that's where the recordings would come in. A child can hear a native speak their language and then he can hear myself speak the language and he can make comparisons between the two. Now the elementary school level would you say that all children should take on a foreign language. Do they all have this added to their own time. Am I of course I am feeling that way about me. And I know all of that in opinion studies that have gone on across this nation. Most of them if not all of them. Teachers as well as parents and parents in particular a favor for a foreign language instruction in the elementary school. I can tell you are you smiling because I wonder what the opinion of the children would be.

I know at least one school system that gives all elementary school children at the third grade level an opportunity to learn this foreign language but the end of at the end of a one year trial period if the student has not shown any success or any ambitions to become adept in this foreign language he is allowed to drop from this course. But the students to do is show us on proficiency continue when. Well I would disagree with Wally because even when when you examine the reasons for taking a foreign language you are studying a foreign language. By the most enthusiastic proponents of foreign languages in the schools. When you look at those reasons such as reasons as it may add variety and interest to the other subjects in the school and it promotes appreciation and understanding of other cultures and countries and so forth. So

even though there they are good reasons I think there are also reasons why some students shouldn't take foreign languages in schools. Some students who already have more to do with than they can possibly accomplish. They're already frustrated from the experience of school without the foreign language. And then of course point back to the 1950s when we had this terrific upsurge across the country for example from 1950 to then from 1950 to 1953 I think we probably had at least one hundred percent increase in a number of communities and schools offering foreign language. And then from 53 to 54 we had another 100 percent increase in the schools. And then I noticed at that time that along about 50 in the late 50s. And early sixties many schools that had foreign languages for two and three and four and five years were dropping the programs. So it in time is sort of a cycle I think that we're

going through. I know no one relatively controlled study in which they started offering foreign language is in the elementary school and did this for a period of time comparing. The success of their students who went on to two to high school with others of their students who went on to high school but did not have the foreign languages in the elementary school. And unfortunately they couldn't discover the difference. It didn't do the one group any good as far as it could be measured in their foreign languages in the high school now Wolli I think you might come back with the idea that maybe it's because in this instance the high school was using an older method of teaching foreign languages that was based on the. Dramatical analysis and vocabulary memorization rather than the.

Then the smooth entry into foreign languages that was taking place in the elementary situation could have been some other interferences too. But it was so disappointing to these people that they removed foreign languages from the elementary school they felt it just wasn't worth the time. From our discussion that we've had so far I'm. I'm ready to conclude that if a community whether it's high school is only wanting to support a two year program and have foreign language that they might as well cancel and drop the foreign language program and tired of it. It appears to me that a community must be interested enough to support a plan for a continuous program and a certain language and one language that would include the elementary school of the junior high school and the secondary school so that these students would become proficient enough in this language to actually use it not just be exposed to it but to

be able to use it successfully. But leo right now one of the major problems of the small high school is to supply enough instruction to enable their students we've got two years of foreign languages well he said. Only that day there'd be a good chance for them to conserve some of their financial resources by canceling out their entire foreign language program until they can support a good one. I wonder what the attitude of universities and colleges are toward admitting students to certain programs who do or do not have foreign languages. You know Wally if they be eliminated this is one of the desirable requirements and the student can take the foreign language after he gets to college if it's a requirement. Yeah I don't know. For example here in Northern a bachelor science and education degree which I believe is the one that most students. Take Here there is no for there is no language requirement there. Not even in the degree plan at the college level but there is one in

some of the other Baccalaureate. Oh yes what if a student coming into our institution and let's assume that our institution is fairly typical of other institutions doesn't have a foreign language. Well Blake said while he's here as well a who as I understand it. The language department will take him right from scratch. Yes and on the other hand if he had it out of the way he could direct his energies elsewhere to more advanced courses in the language. I think our institution may be fairly average in that respect however I think many private colleges and universities today be quire foreign languages for admission or admission to the university. Well I would hate for the student about to enter a college in his parents to investigate the prerequisites with regard to foreign language and do this early do this at the close of his elementary years doing your high school years. In

fact they teach foreign languages in the junior high schools. So this would be the time to start thinking about it. Well I think that nationally there's no question but what over the past few years there's been an increase in interest in foreign languages and I think we have to agree that it adds culturally to a person's background and international understanding too. And his vocabulary as far as it goes to have studied a foreign language. When a school system as an interested and beginning a foreign language program what language do you think they should consider as as being the one which would be offered. Yes it would appear to me that the type of teacher that is available would certainly have something to do with it. Oh I think there are other criteria to be used here. For example I think the local cultural situation should definitely be considered. Well New Mexico Arizona California Texas those deeds

emphasize Spanish. Yes they should. And there are some communities in the United States where we're maybe French would be desirable and there might be some more communities certain cities in the country where German might make a good foreign language depending on the background of the people. You know this very beit caused an interesting and unfortunate. Situation and one of the suburban schools where part of the parents wanted French to be offered and part wanted Spanish and they just couldn't arrive at it couldn't get an agreement on this so they didn't offer any language. This was in the elementary school level. They may have changed their minds now and perhaps they can offer both the languages and please both groups of parents. But it is a decision that has to be made. Most small schools particularly can't offer languages across the whole wide span. At the university we're discovering their greatest interest is now in Russian. And this is understandable. I think the authorities would agree that. On the high school level

rather than having a variety of different foreign languages offered it would be better to concentrate on one and started earlier Sandy elementary school and let it extend up through the high school so the child would be exposed more years continuously to this foreign language. I agree and I think that and I think that would be a lot more successful programs in modern language. Carried on by communities across this country. If there were adequately trained teachers available I think this is the crux is this is really the crux of the problem. And. This points the fingers at the teacher education institutions. Well yes. R Well I y our teacher education institutions making

available teachers train. I think you should also point at the State Department of Public Instruction the teacher certification board in particular. Because you have a foreign person an individual living in a community who came from France or Germany is very adept with his own tongue. Yet our US State Department of Public Instruction won't allow this person to come into the school to teach the language that he is very familiar with. Yet some poorly trained foreign language teacher speaks with an accent will be allowed to come into the school and instruct the children and wrong way. Firstly all I would have to support the State Department in this regard because just knowing the foreign language doesn't mean you can teach it. In fact again back to Wally's idea you could do more harm as a as a native of one of the countries

coming in and trying to impose Let's say you are a peon methods of discipline and memorization. Young Americans that has been our problem we've emulated the Europeans too much in the teaching of foreign language right. And again I want to underscore this essential part of this whole thing. I want to underscore the word adequately trained. Foreign language teacher which just doesn't seem knowledgeable in the language not an adequately trained foreign language teacher. This is the crux of the whole problem you know what. That's one of the finest foreign language teachers I ever witnessed was a young man who taught Spanish by airborne recall circling over Indiana. It was an airplane. Perhaps it still is. And it was broadcasting and TV programs to elementary schools and to some secondary schools too but there was a young man who was really skillful in teaching Spanish and the elementary school

teachers who were following this along with the children and doing some studying on their own and I think we're doing a very good job of getting these children motivated and moving along into conversational Spanish and other understanding of Spanish. And this young man played a guitar he sang Spanish songs. He was very clever in the use of his illustrations. But above all he was enthused and was able to communicate this enthusiasm. Was he of Spanish descent. And I don't know. Was he certified to teach. I'm sure he was certified to teach. I would hope he was spanish of Spanish descent because that Leo you and I would be in agreement if we could get somebody who had the native language fluently and also English fluently because he will have to explain some things in English occasionally to his students but also had the up to date methodology the use of the language lab or laboratory and the use of the new methods that have come out that make foreign languages meaningful. Well we have worked on this

for some time now. We have some ideas about foreign language and I wish we could pull some of these together a little bit to see if we have anything that we can agree upon. Well I think we know today that Spanish is the most popular language modern modern language in elementary schools across the country I think French comes in second and I believe German this there and at the present time. And this is it. Unless the Sitch very recently. You know I want some I understand where you live. Well it seems to me then that as we recapitulate a little bit that essentially we believe that foreign language is in some foreign men and some quantity of quantity are desirable in the curriculum. We are not 100 percent in agreement that it should start in the elementary schools for all children because perhaps some of the children need their energies to acquire a better knowledge of English. We think it should be done

well on the other hand. Leo has made the point let's not just give it a couple of years to meet a requirement let's do it well and spend four years on the foreign language if we possibly can. We suggested that foreign languages might motivate people to study do in foreign countries to travel in foreign countries and to broaden their understanding of other cultures. This we think is essential in this. Rapidly expanding world of ours where everybody seems to be traveling. We know what their star Horten new methods and the teaching of foreign languages and that the shortage of teachers who really understand these methods so that the child can move ahead slowly and pleasantly and efficiently to accumulating knowledge of foreign languages that this is very important. At any rate we don't want to do it without thinking it over carefully and school people and parents who are working on this problem ought to take

all of these matters into consideration before they decide to remove or to establish new programs in foreign languages whether that be at the elementary school level or extends through the college. Maybe I'm the classroom door produced by W. and IUF and cooperation with the College of Education at Northern Illinois University each week focuses its attention on one of the many challenging aspects of public school education. The program is moderated by Dr. Robert F. top dean of the College of Education at Northern Illinois University. Today's guests were Dr. Leo Laughlin head of the Department of Administration and services. Dr. Lloyd Leonard head of the department of elementary education and Dr. Wallace Wheeler professor of education. Next week's topic will be the impact of the school on mental health. This program is distributed by the national educational radio network.