A conversation with...; Istvan Kertesz, part two

A conversation with Van characteris. This is another in a continuing series of programs each of which offers the listener a rare opportunity to hear an eminent musician informally discussing his own career and expressing his thoughts about a variety of topics related to the art of music. The regular participants in these discussions are Aaron Parsons professor of music theory at Northwestern University's School of Music and program annotator for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra. And George Stone program director for Zenith radio corporation's serious music station WEAA FM in Chicago. Mr. Parsons and Mr. Stone have as their guest on today's program the general music director of the Cologne opera East Yvonne characteris who recently resigned as principal conductor of the London Symphony Orchestra you know ordered to be available for numerous guest conducting engagements throughout the world. Now addressing Mr. Kerry this here is George Stone. Mr. Curtis First of all may I say welcome back to our microphones and it's good to have

this opportunity to renew our conversation began a little over a year ago. I think that I'd like to begin today by asking you if in your judgment there are any particular qualities traits of character or attitudinal things which are indispensable to a conductor. A good conductor. That's a very difficult question and I think a little bit about the old problems would feed your question. First of all I think I I conduct has to be that a gifted. And secondly I think he must sacrifice his life far to me like. And sadly he must be very lucky. And his destiny in his way a career.

And for if he must have a good knowledge about literature or music or the rich or even dramas which are every kind of shocked painting sculptures antique art and so on and so on. Last but not least Him must be a good psychological him must. He must feel that all are people with them and he has a connection and he has to walk orchestras choruses solos. He has to feel dad. Their situation they present have feelings about music about his own passion about everything he has to go inside to have the nice people

and so I think you know just he has to be a good psychologist. Well I know you five things may be there at the moment. Maybe I don't remember more back. I won't say that Mason is the order of what he has to have. Maybe he can start a business to be vetted Aki. I I'm not necessarily told these are you know they're of importance. You think it is possible to make a compact or let me put the question another way do you think that it would be accurate to say a conductor is born with a certain inherent qualities which cannot be acquired. I think this is true. It is true. I don't think there's a possibility to make to do to be for a conductor. It's not possible.

Only some quantity is the quietest of raining if it's right but rain rain yes rain to have a power which is always a. Double faced. Of course it can. Be against him. Just like politicians. He has to have some feeling of these power some feeling of making musician convinced of his idea of music or philosophy of music and to lead as you have. You have to be a great personality. I think the right word there is one who gives us this authority is there. It goes with the job. But how well it's used and how carefully I imagine it is used

less important. I think we forgot and that important thing in my case. I'm leaving these motto many others do. Some don't do but it's not my job to judge. It had a lot is humanity. And when I am I ask. Who could be my favorite conductor or my ideal conductor. I always said Bruno Vita because of his humanity and fairest of his humanity I read his books. I know that about his records unfortunately I never met him. But his whole attitude of what I write could bring together about him was so human and I was so warm hearted and such humanity is easy. I think everything closed in these humanity.

He was so close to the heart of other people too and still was a great man great man in a sense of distance he left like God. And he was like God he didn't care about intrigues and politics and you know the small things happen in our lives. I want to be human in my music making this humanity leads me. As a janitor. Motto in my life. This suggests to me a related topic. I think it's one which very naturally follows this one. It would be interesting if you would describe to us your technique at a rehearsal. Let us say you're facing an orchestra and the orchestra for the first

time because you do a great deal of guest conducting. Would you tell us what happens when you come on stage and address that orchestra. Well if you are a new man with an orchestra is of course more difficult if you know the Aug of that if it's not significant. But I feel and I always had it in my life that to firstly Hassen it to most difficult in the whole week including the concerts. That is simply to say to make a good face. I don't think that only that. It must be more to convince the Arcus hundred individuals but it's hundred different thinking hundred different mining opinions. Have you off music took on Wednesdays August you were away but

you try to bring arts underscore is the ONLY GO RIDE way of making music. And this happens within the first half an hour. If you want these battle you out all right. If you lost you can never bring it back in a second rehearsal in the fifth rehearsal not even a concert. The severest critic that the conductor ever has to face really is the man in the orchestra. Yes because he makes that judgment before that. That's right that's a trend that's usually and I was the only one I accept. Well in your rehearsal technique we still haven't actually got to the point that I have wanted to cover. When you begin your rehearsal what do you do exactly how do you do it while. Again it depends on so many things. If I'm in a new

hall I must loose and hold the acrostic softball. If there is a new August I must listen to this song the natural sound of the orchestra. And in that case I give them 10 minutes for playing. And I'd say the first move and throw and then I. I can say I always I can judge what kind of acoustics what kind of sound the orchestra produces and what the individual has at least a soloist of wind section a brass session can be. If I am with an orchestra who I know is immediately starting to go into the deeper and trying to bring out immediately the sensitive bloods of the score

in symbolic of course. Yes I've tried to be very proficient. Very. Not cool but you know I just object. That's all right. Not very objective not involved myself like I do in a concert. Just listening and. And judging. What can I make better. What is the necessary thing I have to be. I have to take it and go immediately in media Assamese say. With the audio because there's I give these 10 minutes even 15 minutes and try and I judge several sections. First we start again very objective from the

sophisticated and then we go down and that is subjective. It's like an elevator starting in a tense flow and i thought into the basement. So I am I would say in the first minutes I'm rather objective and then I get more and more involved with my work. And if the orchestra responses it gets very very very close connection very good relationship. So you have more involvement will be even deeper and these days he's wiser and he she goes always closer and quicker and faster and so security is this suggest to me that when you are rehearsing that you work in parts in the score you take one section or one small bit. Yes at a time and you try to perfect it in relation to

your total picture in your own mind of the score. Is this correct. Yes I know some conductors go straight through. Now I know it is I never delete. I never do it unless I have only one. That even in one day I asked and you can pick up pods very important thought of the interpretation and then you leave. I just thought evening flood flood and lack of any. The last time we talked you said something which suggests to me that you mentioned that there was a time when you were much younger when the study of school hours was very time consuming and ongoing thing but this was learning repertoire now that you have a considerable repertoire. You're still studying but it's from a different point of view and I believe you use the word

meditation. Yes that's right. And in this meditation if I understand now what you meant. This is the process by which you determine. What you're going to do in rehearsal and in performance but particularly now. Speaking of rehearsal this is when you decide which parts of the score itself are going to be given your especial attention. Yes that's right. Yes of course. If I have more than one. I think that every part of the score has to be a test as to get special attention. I only spoke in kids that I have wondered through their special box I have to bring. And special parts of course are very difficult for the orchestra and I have to be again a very objective and from a distance and realizing with maybe slow r and. To have them try and

explain how to be. How would it be better or disgusting to Boeing's whether it is up or down. You know these old I called the first time I called it professional and then these I think is the right way I don't know what gives you any sense but to be like a professional in the business end in a good shop a tailor for instance. First making sure and locking hundred feet isn't how sad the man is and so on and so on. But then after that comes he's his creation I have a tale of actually just. Remaining the same subject who is an artist and he her says very much the same as Irene. He looked at me and said. Well Mr. Curtis you got

fatter. You lost weight. I must do again these days. Measuring the measurements Yes. And then he serious well my ideal would be to do these for you and and then he looks oh in that time when I go back to him for getting it right when he looks always his. His art his his his. Work his own creation like a composer. And then when the shoot is ready he he doesn't want to give it to me. He likes it too much like he wants to keep its like Pygmalion. And and then I have to convince him that it is very good. Half an hour and this is more or less. I mean I didn't learn to it for him

it was just just during fitting during standing an hour or more in his apartment. It just gave me sometimes the idea this is just the way how I read this. At the end of course at the end of the concert I didn't want to give my VOC and what I brought to get it I didn't want to give away from me. So it goes only in my in my mind during the night and I can very hardly sleep that night and it works more and more after a concert. Can we take one small example I know that you are going to perform the Symphony Number six the first movement opens right away with beautiful soaring line. If the orchestra plays that. Note wise it's very easy. Yes but this is a musical thought which requires a very subjective

touch to it. Yeah and I can imagine that each conductor will reshape that phrase in his own image. Yes. How do you when you when the orchestra plays that through after eight measures nine ten you stop them and you say that's not the way I want it. Well I did it all with the symphony and in the Sixth Symphony conducted the symphony very often and with many artists and I always did it I always explained it just not after the first 8 passed because the melodies go along it's just not it's not more than 30 bars. About to go out and then I stop and I explained the warm soft place this June. I do smell a day and that thought the man of the year. And is divided for for all of us and clarinets and flutes on the one side and for Chandos and bases on the other side. I

haven't explained them how it has to go to Ghana and eventually come to the minor key. Justin and I may be in the 12 spot and 14 spot than these monarchy has to be more sad than the major key was to touch it very carefully. Not so intensive as they touched a man and a major key and so on and so on I tried to bring the orchestra into the harmony into the phrasing and into the architecture of these facts. Fast started to bust but all with musical terms I know yes. You never extramusical references. No no no. I'm thinking of the famous story of the conductor who was at the New York Philharmonic and told somebody that they had to imagine that they were a tiny flower the side of the Alps. He brought a lot of bodies are you talking. Sure. No.

The flower sometimes a flower needs to bring in Amona look closer to the orchestra. But I would never say a flower in a valley. And again not to be incorrect to myself. My interpretation of a certain base is also on the background of composers lives of composers situation during the hear read to me like he has written. And many things which happened with him influenced him during composing and these and those so I not forgot and I'd forget of course the nationality of the composers but he's a Cherokee almost in a German French Italian and English American. It's I think very important and

if. If proper routes doesn't have don't help then I go to the flowers in symbolic meaning and I explain the whole background. Which is I think that and history too to know how we're nice people left in early nineteenth century and how Mozart was poor and still. His greatest jokes and greatest sadness and so on and so on Beethoven's tragic life was. Being. More and more. Yes. And so on and Brahms. And Happiness. In his latest latest. And and so on I mean I can go on and on with

these. Composers. Personally I've one I think a conductor must know about those backgrounds too. Coming back to the rehearsal after you have worked on sections. If time permits then do during the rehearsal play an entire movement straight through. Yes after only a sly like to play through. What means of communication do you rely on most. Your eyes. Meeting the eyes and lawyers. I think every single one have to have a goal of course a very good technique that that Meek is a maven maze meant in a communication with the office. They are first the orchestra can judge whether the conductor can conduct or not. These happens when I listen them in the

first 10 minutes. They watch my hands and they say while I could hear everything I do or live with their hands without saying anything and if they were happy with that demand a conductor has a great credit in the meaning of the orchestra. So when needs the hands one needs just one needs the expression of the face. Then needs some so I used to tell the officer I'm not the speaker not a great speaker I don't want to speak out for an hour now but I think sometimes it's very necessary. Just for five minutes. Telling them the most interesting details from the piece or from the movement. We just rehearse. This must also tell them something else because it conveys to them your attitude more than

the literal interpretation of what you are saying. But it also says something about the attitude you bring to the peace. Yes of course I try always not to bring my attitude but I think it's. It's impossible. If you have a real from the score and you are really you know had a meditation about the score you have got you an attitude of it was sickening. And this attitude comes back to the humanity and comes back to all our five points I told you I mentioned you. Well that brings up an interesting point. You closed your program the other night with the great C major symphony of Schubert and you did something that I think few conductors would have the courage to do really because it was apparent that you were not seeking the tumultuous ovation that

some conductors feel is essential to a successful conclusion of a concert. When you took that dim.. Yes. Why because I don't the demeanor and you question I have to answer in two parts. First show back road you know three lost bags you see major symphony and you know and I just definitely found Shoebat and not from the copyist. Why he wrote. We know we don't know we don't we don't know too much about Schubert because he was very shy and very simple and I can imagine and in my opinion is very important to imagine that I have to read. There is this great symphony really with a great architecture great musical. And this flu has fantastic

ideas. He simply didn't want to believe that he was the person who wrote this in me. And just from from Pure Being shy he closed it with the demeanor and oh and say Forgive me that I was Schubert. And I rolled this symphony. This is in my feeling and and also that he was a great admirer of Beethoven as you know he wished to be in the cemetery next to Beethoven in Vienna. He was a very great admirer but he always knew that he won't leave. He won't reach these highness of Beethoven and as may talk on writes hundreds of C major chords in his fifth symphony. I think that these influenced him to write really a

diminuendo not to be the same as Beethoven because he or I it's a very big chord. Sure but it's also in C Major which longs about two minutes more of C majors and again C major. So not too close not to end a symphony. Well the same. Greatness for most all are asking for jubilation from the audience. I am like made to win and it's almost as though instead of striding off the stage rather humbly bowed his way oh yes. This is about this is my opinion. Except from the fact that it is written that dim.. I mean this is the first fact what I think it is to explain for myself why I should to read the statement and hear it all just for song though

for each installment in the sad last thought antidote to dim.. And that's it. And if conductor don't I don't accept you know I know I think they can get their success but they are not true to the composer. And this is very bad. You feel that the score is the Bible. That's right yes. And not success not the clapping of the oh yes. You're listening to a conversation with the van characters with their own Parsons and George St.. We pause ten seconds for a station identification. Now resuming the conversation with Mr. Curtis here is Aaron Parsons.

Mr. Curtis I believe you conduct sometimes from memory sometimes when score. What determines this choice. And then if you're going to conduct the concert from memory do you rehearse the orchestra from memory without the score before you. I don't think it has a sense to conduct in-memory type of conduct or use conducting. I had having greater success as may be. Closer to me because I played them from from the time of my you when I was 18 19 20 and maybe that four. I don't need anything.

I mean I could read the music. It's not this type of problem that I think simply it's not necessary but in any case if I conduct by I really have from the school cause which doesn't mean necessarily that bugs which I conduct from school I don't know. Therefore I think this is a very very important way of conducting whether it is from the score or without a score for my pass. Well is it simply that you feel that some works you know so well have even to flip those pages you know maybe it's you know this way. Yes that's right that's right. Because. Well certainly the other night and talk music for Miraculous Mandarin which points its It's moving so fast that you know one or two you know that's flipping those pages and it was

apparent that you never referred to the score so you literally have memorized every score and yeah there was a book is there and yes that's right that's right. But you feel psychologically at times it's important to the orchestra to have the book on the side. Maybe sometimes yes it's important that the August saying yes the conductor has he's his school and understand. I knew many conductors from Miami is age and I was 10 and I was a regular visitor in the opera house and board and a concert Tylers in Budapest. I know men to conduct this film these time I don't even know who didn't know the score and still conducted by ha. And making just between one and something will happen. I don't want to show you something because my conducting by heart or I don't want not to shore something with it when I conduct from from

from the score I simply feel that conductor has to bring the score to his life to bring it to to bring it to order in a song. Thank you to life again. It is written and dad music notes. And if you did it by heart or from the score is the same securities and I ask you what do you do at the time of the performance. As a conductor which you did not do when you were rehearsing the differences in the way you conduct when you are with the orchestra or with the audience. Of course the concert has a more emotional thing to sell. In the real house lie I have to think always what can be done better. What is the play.

I still have to rehearse and what chances I have will bring peace even much more to sound and to life. The news is not more the fact in the concert so I can only be involved as a peace and involved father die. I have no problems in a concert restart and it goes to the end. Mr greatest spiritual concentration. What is your reaction at the end of the concert. You you've had this experience with the orchestra. They have in a sense gone beyond probably what they did at rehearsal. You have in a sense become perhaps more subjective than you were at the rehearsal time and perhaps gone beyond in an artistic and its emotional sense. What is your shall we say the state of your nervous system the emotional system. When the concert is over.

But I think I've tried to explain that the piece leaves still with me for the next hour or so and it's very very hard to give it. To give it up to give it away to take it away from my. From my brain from my heart it's still with me. I don't think that many colleagues do you do it. Just go somewhere and. And make a not an entertainment. Go to the cinema and I don't know where. Many of them and they don't care what happened five minutes ago. I love this. After the concert I feel a bit I'm now poor. Poorer I lost an experience which was great which I

have built up from the first rehearsal to the end of the concert and I lost it. I would be sad after each concert the next day. Do you read what the critics have had to say about the performance. The evening before. It's a very tricky question. I think the critics shouldn't hear in our time I say but usually I don't treat it if I'm not forced to read it. I don't treat it. I tell you why I think the job of the critics is just in a country of the job of the musician. They must to be very very objective. I hope so. They are objective and they are not influenced by nothing not by politics not by intrigues not by audiences not by friends they are just very very objective

and their critics are very objective. They are just in contrary I was a conductor who has to be very subjective without any influence from the August or from the audience from friends etc etc.. So we had a paddling in two different boats. Therefore I think that critic writing has something to do with with a job which is good for the critic writer because he gets paid for it and he has to. I did I and I accepted but I never think in my life in a rehearsal or a concert what the critic will mean about it. And of course I never do a favor for a critic even anding to Schubert in for DC more when it's lead in. Yeah the point is that you

apparently feel that after your years of study and your years of experience. You're given performance on a given evening is the cumulative result of your experience and preparation. And you wouldn't be likely to change something you've done because you have carefully considered it. Oh yes of course I would change if I feel differently in a two years in a few years. So I always goes back to your subjective feeling where you feel like changing you. Yes definitely and I I don't tell me what I have to feel what I have to change my meditation this was a very good I found you know my meditation goes on and on. It never stops and I know exactly when a concept was wrong. I don't need anybody to tell me and I feel very ashamed if the concept was wrong for me and I

and a critic would write. How marvelous concert it was. Because I know that on these pads you can walk I have to walk Staley yes to bring food for richness of the core and the thorn period just so and everything after school. And the other way if I fear that these paths you can walk is now on the best possible shape. As a conductor or as a human can produce I would be very upset if the critic would say about it is nothing. Leaving the critics and I'm just just considering your feelings very subjective feelings about music making have you in your career encountered works in your early years which presented to you problems that caused you to put them aside for. Prolonged study.

Did you ever say 20 years ago. Perform work and achieve a result which didn't completely satisfy you. And did you then set the work aside and think I'll come back to this some time. Oh yes stat.. I can give you an example it's a Boston Symphony from Beethoven which I conducted when I was twenty two and is three and I've as a very very on have been because I couldn't find a connection to the oath so I tried everything to read books about peace and to go really in the background as far as possible. It was so i'm such structure you know Dido and I've only touched a piece until I'm 40. Next year I'm 40 but I still don't feel that I would I could touch this particular piece or I'm just miss Braam

said symphony in the same way. It's very difficult to come Tories out with these Also I fear the time very close to Brown's and I'm a great admirer a great admirer of Brown's music. I better leave that piece and so that composers and his values for instance I'm not so I can't at the moment understand he's his fascinating vividness. He's fascinating modernity and eighteen hundred and twenty and thirty. I bet no one touch him. I'm not a conductor not a type of musician who does every bit of every walk just on money. To what do you ascribe your obvious affinity to the music of worship. Is this something that developed from

early youth. I can say at the moment and I have and I jumped up and. And I simply felt it very strongly that is a possibility of my music making. Certainly it came up of course with the new symphony and I and the other symphonies G-Major and a D in the D major and so really I felt the she's a composer. I know his life I know his problems and I felt the new music very close to me and I got the scores from the newly covered symphonies for the new number one two three four. And. So I found that it's a great influence from Wagner and from Schumann and from even from rhymes. I found it a very interesting

language that in national language Slavonic language and I think I saw that it is worthwhile to study them. And I studied and I made a record. So so happened. It was a long way. It took about eight years or even more. I couldn't tell you the exact time or moment of months when it happened but it certainly did happen and I hope that it will happen as badly as some times and it will happen with that bastard holiday and was the Brom sad symphony. I hope. But I can and that will force and this is the main result of out of the discussion of these thing. One can never force something which has to come naturally. You would say that a conductor. If he is being honest with himself. I will not play music in which he doesn't believe that's

right. In addition to music which he may feel has some elusive quality but I'm talking now about a score which just doesn't appeal to you and you believe a conductor should leave this alone. Yes even if his audience is clamoring. Yes I don't know that audiences clamor any more. Anything It seems to me is always against. But that's a good point to convents people. Ok Mr. Audience one has to be kind of against us through the piece. And one has to believe in a piece if that is not the fact that you don't touch it because you can't convince it. At the conclusion of our last talk you said something that I have thought about a great deal since I ask you about the future.

And your answer at the time was not too specific really but it seems to me in retrospect that it was very specific because you said first of all that you hoped you kept your health which is a very natural hope. But then what you wanted just to make music that you wanted your life to be devoted to music and you added not to social not to administration I think. But to music now. I would judge from us that you do not relish the red tape duties that go with the music directorship because of the administration of things which are really well of course they are related to music but they're not directly involved in the production of music. My life is devoted to music. I am a music music that I can see and hear. In Germany and

I have of course problems to solve. But if you have good colleagues and good. Systems they can do just part of the administration and this is what I'm always looking for and I've been called long distance I don't have to care about oh these problems what are you playing in which subscription and how well how is the cost and who is saying that supper was orderly. Suggestions from my assistants and if I don't like something I make a note but otherwise I let them work. Weiss I've been in the music but it does go back to this point. The administration appeals. It's not just my social point because

I am sure I must get to be a problem for conductors. How do you handle the situation. It's really difficult. You mean parties. Yes yes. If it is very necessary I go but otherwise I know and always my life is my family. After a concert or even worse two or three friends and like to speak about the concept about the walk about and having a great walk in the forest and the good air and think about everything what happened the last six or 48 hours but you never get really very far away from the music do you. Not really and not really.

One of the principal jobs that you have to do as a conductor is to construct programs. This is constantly facing you. You presented us with two very interesting programs here in Chicago. Do you have certain principles that you use as a guide to you and building a program. How do you go about it. Well if for instance speaking of Chicago. I'm told that this is the opening of the season. You know I must be some some know I thought to Mozart you flat some 25 would be fine because of this greatness of the fast movement and Jubilee and start to rail and you know stock just waiting for another season and just waiting for sunshine and good songs for everything that has a certain

solemnity I solemnly do that's a good idea so I landed the drum straw Yeah. Yes. So then they had to go out and about doctor who wasn't a part of the celebrity thing of course but in the backtalk I wanted to show off the plane lands of the artist because and I thought it will be just the right program for the opening. When you have a soloist as part of a program such as you have this week you have a pianist. What do you do then you start with the Piano Concerto in this case and you build from there. No not usually concerto like sure mushrooms are many many many other countries that those are very well known by the orchestra because my experience is that all sort of play just the same pieces everywhere seems to be OK

and so I don't think it's too difficult to walk for the OutKast they know it better. I just understood in the window from or from the hall there's a record by Robin Stein and Giulini from the Schumann concerto. So I think the artist you know said that it got it right I don't think it's necessary to rehash too much. What I concentrated more was a two hour Jack six Symphony which is almost an hour here. Yes yes. Then another thing that you included on this program which interested me a great deal was a new symphony you know number 67. How did you come to choose this why didn't you choose one of the last 12 like most other people do you have.

They only serve if I spoke about solos to play always to say I don't think that conductors have to do all the same old ways all the time. Once I've got the score sound you know as an addition to a new edition of these 67 Haydn symphonies between 60 and 80 and. I just laughed for the first moment I've seen the score I just love the score. And since then I have done the symphony many many times. Everybody around. And the more I've done the more I liked it. So conclusion is had I wanted to bring this in played to Chicago. Delighted that you did because there are still many more Haydn's you might bring to that oh yes hundred thousand for this recount to all of Babylon. Ninety two I don't know anyone.

A moment ago we were talking about sausages. I wonder what your attitude is the peculiar problem that Young Concert Artists face nowadays with the international competitions. Literally bringing boring people into prominence overnight. And with the modern transportation facilities that enable a young artist immediately to be booked on a concert tour that will encompass both Europe and the United States. What will happen in your judgment to these young people who with 1 2 3 4 at the most I would say works they will be performing. These initial concert appearances what happens when finally there is a demand for new repertoire do you think it will hurt them.

I'm sure I'm pretty sure that at least when I'm carrying out of a soloist just as a conductor is based on a certain solid repertory there are so many examples I don't find to hurt anybody and therefore I don't see any languages. But they were there I was a very very gifted boy who won the Chopin competition in the show. And had a repertory of three or four pieces. And after winning the competition he got to want to engagement after Jada had just a few months later he was 21. He he got to know breaking down as nervous breakdown and since then he can't be kind for. A comeback. Today first class of pianist and it's a pity because this boy was so excellent. And many

I could say I could say or many other things I think if even if starting it. Yet if you don't have a solid repertory or only it or not you're just really finished. What would be the alternative. The young man who says I'm not ready. And who elects to take another year or two or whatever to learn additional repertoire. Do you think he's going to have the same chance for exposure but he might have had immediately after his conquests you must be very strong with the agents. You know most of the agents are the worst and the gays that they want to make profit from. From a good publicity possibility like winning a fair competition are like jumping in for a fight another soloist who will

get who got you know and making a big success. And if if the man or God is strong enough and say well I am very great for four days Johns. But now let me give another two years to complete my repertory and then start again. Then he's very wise. She is very alive. And if that is not just not the fact I can come to a good result of cost and I'm not saying at all turns down to a nervous breakdown. But it can happen it can happen often. Temperament is so much involved in the production of music and in your role as general music director of the opera. You have to deal with singers in your appearances all over the world. As an orchestral conductor you frequently are dealing with solo performers instrumentalists.

Do you find that one or the other group is generally easier to deal with. But I think it's rather easy if you if you come to them as a human and not as a dictator. You feel immediately connection unless the other side is a dictator. The soloist or the singer is a dictator. Then you better leave it as it is and you go back to your own and he goes back to you so that if if you come before them as a as a human and you find a human connection that it can be very easy. And my experience is that 95 percent and yet it is a very good cooperation. Just seeing us and is so based on what happened the other 5 percent meister of yours where you find that your points of view cannot be reconciled.

I'm not a dictator. I mean that my view in the first quarter. Now I look to declare that it cares I I I feel that if the soloist has to say to me something about a book and dissing her and saying I would do this because I feel he has and then we discussed and you make God your minds against guns. And if I'm cornered wins by a musician by a colleague of mine. I can see that I am not saying that I'm the only who can understand the music no matter what if it were a point of view perhaps it's never come up. If I have a new interview what the man wanted to do was contrary to the intent of the composer was unmusical let us say would. Would you simply say I can't do it with you or would you.

Then he has to parse it out two possibilities. Fast like Mr. Sharon said in New York. I conduct these gentlemen but have nothing to do with who you are to do a concert as good as possible and never meet the man again. That would be one way I would again hopefully never to meet a man with a carrot as this has been very interesting because I think in this conversation we've had time to talk at a more leisurely pace than we did before. There were so many points we wanted to cover then and I think we have yet another insight. And we thank you very much for joining us in this talk. This is this great pleasure. And most interesting. We thank you. This has been a conversation with these divine keratitis general music director of the Cologne opera participating where Aaron Parsons professor of music theory at Northwestern University's School of

Music and program annotator for the Chicago Symphony Orchestra and George Stone program director of Zenith radio corporation's radio station WEF am. This is the national educational radio network.