Jazz of the past; Various artists

In its visiting scholars series WBA we present visit with an historian. Part 1. The visiting scholars program of the Cleveland public schools was developed under the direction of Superintendent Paul breaks and was designed to bring teachers and students into direct personal contact with outstanding scholars. In visit with an historian part 1. We bring you the first of two interviews with Dr. Charles R. Keller a scholar in the fields of history and social sciences. Dr. Keller served as professor of history and chairman of the history department at Williams College. He initiated the John Hay Fellows program and directed it until its conclusion in 1966. For several years he has been traveling extensively in the United States visiting secondary schools observing commenting and being welcomed as a consultant in the areas of history and the social sciences. He currently refers to himself as a friend in residence at the Fairfield in Greenwich Connecticut high schools. Dr. Keller is interviewed by

Cecilia Evans of WB Oh we don't do killer. How does a student become interested in history. Why is history important. Well let me take up the second part of your question first. It seems to me that history is important for three reasons. In the first place. History is about something. It's a story of man. There are certain events certain developments. Certain ideas. That people. You know in a sense really ARE know. Not in a fact by fact way. But. In a way that becomes part of them. The second place. History is a discipline and there is cause and effect. There's a way of thinking about history. As a way of studying history as a way

of using the mind. And for that reason I think history is important. And then I think most important is the fact that. Leisure you know what B-M what's happened what's man struggles of being him. You don't know who you are. And we share that the most important question that people can be asking themselves young and old today. Is Who am I. And unless you begin to feel you figure out who you are. I don't think you can begin really to live. In the world in which we are. Living. There is as has been said The unexamined life is not worth living. Yes and could I add to that one that I like. That Adley Stevenson. Once said. That life without laughter. Isn't worth examining. A one that I like

that I made up. That life without wonder. Isn't worth examining. And I should have said too that because history is important in the ways that I've suggested. That for those reasons I'd say perhaps is due not to be interested in history. James Baldwin said recently as you say that if you don't know what's happened behind you you can't know what's happening around you. You don't know where you come from or why you in particular live as you do. This is one way of finding out and then the questions are going to come up you know I'll do. If you don't know who you where you've come from and where you are. And how you want to find out. You know where you're going. Yes. How do you relate to what's happening around you in order to live responsibly. I mean effectively. Which is the way I think people should live. It's important. To know something about.

I asked Dr. coward we know that you are a graduate of East High School. Could you tell us a little bit about your school life. Something about the teachers that you had East. Well you want to watch out for a person who is shall we say nearly 50 years out of you study school you know. Those were the good old days you know what. But I would say that this for instance. I wonder if you know that when I was in high school 50 years ago. Only about 30 percent of the age group in this country was in high school and today 90 percent of the age group is in high school. This by itself would have an effect.

Now he studies school 50 years ago was a very interesting place. Made sold by a tremendously effective principal named Daniel Oakland. And by a group of teachers. These teachers were for the most part. Graduates of liberal arts colleges. And they had a real grasp of their subject. And you respected them for a knowledge of their subject. These teachers also and this is one of the things that I've been struck by in the last few days. These teachers still need at least I school. This room as I walked around that building this was Mr. Wright room. This was Mr. Peter Sylvie's room. This was Miss buddy's room this was his craft room.

This was Mr. Hogans room. I was impressed by the fact that there was practically no time over. While I was there. And this is very different it was very different now yes. And. They made they must have made a tremendous impression on me because I can go around that East High School now and as I've said. Identify the rooms with the teachers. And I can see the teachers. And. We were academic. Quite a number of us think so I think in large part to. Mr. gloat when the teachers went on to college. But we also had athletics. And debating and the newspaper.

And dancers although I I'll admit I wasn't at that point going to generate that kind of thing. But it was an interesting kind of an existence this used school of those days. Dr. Keller What percentage went on to college that I think was quite small when it was a small percentage of the age group and a small percentage of Crecy there was a small percentage of the adult in my school 30 percent 30 percent. When I found that out it was a revelation. I thought everybody went to high school except a few people. And it shows how much things have changed and what and what a job we've taken on in 50 years. Yes and a good job and an important job to have as many high school students as we now have. That's taken for granted now that practically everyone knows how to write. And then there was this other smaller group that went on to college.

So I went to college in the fall of 1919. But for high school of that time there was a remarkably high percentage of people going to high school. Or going on from high school to college. Not because we were in an affluent society. Or not because the area was that. The wealthy but because. It was an academic spirit about those people. I missed a lot of them kind of said Don't you want to go to college. And then you made you feel that you wanted to was right. Well I actually wasn't really after World War Two. So many students went on to Kojo I think during the 30s not very many people. In terms of percent although the percentage started climbing after World War One after world after World War One the percentage started climbing steadily then they got

higher and higher as we've gone along. And particularly since the 40s. That's right. And of course one of the most important things that happened in education you know for a variety of reasons was that was that the bill that enabled the people who had been in service us to go to college. The G.I. Bill was a terribly important thing for American education. And that's been extended now they're doing something and get rid of it and it should be. Yes absolutely. Well you've been telling us about some of the teachers you had who were so inspiring Dr. Kalmar who was the finest teacher you ever had. Why. Well I'm not going to name the finest teacher but I'm going to tell you some qualities of some of the teachers. And at the risk of being modest Can I tell you what happened to me when I was a freshman. Oh please one teacher. This was a history teacher. Maybe that's the reason I became as much

interested in history as I have become. And he was teaching me and history of openings. And he knew his subject. That's terribly important. But he did this. You said to me soon after I came into. His class. When you get your first report card bring it in to me. I brought him. He got me by the arm took me down the hall took me into the principal's office and said Mr. Goldman. This is Charles Keller. Four years from now when it comes time to. Find boys to go to Yale on your scholarship he was one of your boys. That's what it that's a fine teacher because he not only motive he motivated me. In a real way. But was a very exciting experience. I could tell you about other teachers. I'm always interested by teachers

who. Are always asking questions. And I had one English teacher who was always asking questions. I was never gave any answers and annoyed just knowing him. It's a wise teacher who knows what questions to ask. That's right. You've traveled throughout the United States visiting history classes. What would you say that teaching and education have changed much since you went to East High School. Well one of the great changes is of course that the. Much higher percentage of the age group in high school. Therefore we have a much more comprehensive kind of education than we had. I would say that within the last decade. In the field of curricular reform. In the field of new ways of

teaching in the in the new kinds of buildings that we have in new approaches to education. That been the beginnings of great changes. I am afraid that as of yet as of ma we're still doing things a little bit too much. You know that if the teacher stands up in front of the class and ask questions of the day which he or she already knows the answer. And it's too much. You know that advertisement that's what's up front that counts. It's too much of a rote thing too much. Yeah. Still too much of that kind of thing. In fact I'm not sure that we want more. Along the lines of the kind of education I'd like as in 50 years ago than we are at the present time because we've taken all these numbers. So that when I think we're beginning to break I think we're getting on into

the new kind of a really new kind of registration. With Team teaching and with smaller groups. And with really with making education more discovery. Thank you. Dr. Keller in visit with an historian part one. You've heard the first of two interviews with Dr. Charles R. Keller. The visiting scholar series is produced by the Cleveland Board of Education station WABE O.E. FM by Cho Siegel an engineer dentist basic here interviewer Cecilia Evans. This is Lee factor speaking this is the Board of Education station in Cleveland WB o e. This is the national educational radio network.