A Federal Case; 3

Those were the names of dead being read out loud in front of the White House recently by a group of friends who call themselves a Quaker Action Group. This program is going to investigate their efforts to end the Vietnamese War. All spring and summer members of this group have been reading the names of dead veterans in such a unlikely places the Pentagon and on the Capitol steps. Sometimes they've been joined by other groups and other people sometimes they've been arrested. You're going to hear me first talking with Bob Levering. He's a young man three years out of Swarthmore College who heads this Quaker Action Group. He's going to describe what happened at the Capitol and the Pentagon. How did you get the idea of reading the names of the war dead at the Capitol in April. Actually on Good Friday there was a group of Quakers and others in Philadelphia. The decided that they were going to go into a draft board and begin the reading of names of war dead because they felt the draft board

clerks and members should have the war brought home home to them and that kind of way that this is really what their work represented and in effect dead bodies and it just so happened that there was a congressman who did sort of these names in the congressional record. And so they simply took this list. They stayed all night long. The police threatened them with arrest but then they didn't arrest them. And they felt after the action that it was very meaningful and moving experience. And so then in May. We had a demonstration down here at the White House and we read the names all night in front of the White House. And later on in May there was another series of actions all across the country at which names were read. And our latest count is somewhere near 100 different cities different groups have followed this pattern of reading of names. We just decided to use that in the end of May April or May 23rd

when we decided to come back to Washington too and go to the Capitol. And so it was as I'd say a tactic that we'd use for a period of time before and just found it meaningful that it makes the participants reflect on what the war is really like. Robyn Williams Very well. Well the first group was arrested. There were about 10 of them and they they simply went up and sat down on the Capitol steps and Larry Scott who is the man is see exactly secretary a quick rational action group made a little speech saying why he was there and the chief of police made a little speech about why you couldn't be there and that went back and forth and in a very gentlemanly fashion decided to escort them away and they locked them up overnight including an 80 year old man. And they stayed in jail overnight and

then they were released on a technicality. But then they charged him with something a little stiffer the next time so that stopped for a couple more weeks until it was overturned. The first time they charged him with blocking the stairs and if you know the Capitol steps it's rather humorous to charge a group of 10 people are blocking the steps. Why. Yeah I would take. I'd say at least 200 people determined to block it to block it and 10 couldn't possibly do it. Critically not Quakers. And well anyway they changed it to saying illegal entry which also somewhat humorous in that in that it's illegal to enter the Capitol grounds. Well anyway that was overturned. Let's talk a little bit about. About the philosophy of the Quakers and how this relates to the action you're doing. Just First off out of state very plainly that we call ourselves a Quaker Action Group with and with even accepting the a Quaker action group to make sure that it's

clear to everybody that we don't mean to speak for all Quakers. We're just a Quaker actually. I think that in the history of the friends there's been more of an attempt to say that the Quakers are. Trying to see what's that of God in every man and believing that that the Spirit of God can indeed become part of each person so that in a Quaker meeting for instance what happens is that there is no program but just whenever someone feels a spirit he stands and speaks you see. In fact that's how the word Quakers got attached you know because of the quaking in their quaking during meetings you see in terms of some of these actions people just feel again you know if they're Quakers and working and Quaker principles you see they might feel that the spirit is leaning in that direction. And there's a phrase that they have a leading to the saying on the Capitol steps and.

Well that's that's kind of archaic language and there aren't too many except the older ones that use it but I think most of the younger people understand who are some of the congressmen who are enjoying you and steps in reading the names of the most illustrious was Adam Clayton Powell when he came out with a huge Bible which became a picture that was up all over the country at one time. But we also had Abner Mikva from Illinois and George Brown from California. And he Jacobs from Indiana and Shirley Chisholm and digs. There were 13 in all all of these men came. I think it at least initially with a great deal of dedication and it was very courageous on their part. How many weeks did you demonstrate at the Capitol. I think it was about 10 or 11 total. What was the court order. It was a court decision that it was. And it gave

us the right to peacefully assemble and speak out on the Capitol steps and the court ruling was very simple and very obvious that the First Amendment rights to freedom of press freedom of speech and freedom of assembly should be if anywhere protected on the Capitol steps. And the Congress had passed a law in the late 19th century which her forbade any kind of demonstrations whatsoever any leaflets posters any assembly that espouse any political cause on the Capitol grounds anywhere on the capitol grounds. And there is no group that I had that did as we do you know which persistently week after week tested that so that they they finally had to deal with us. You see there's I know of several groups in the Poor People's Campaign for instance that were arrested. Other groups have been arrested on the Capitol grounds because they didn't come back week after week and the courts didn't really have to deal with them. Talk about Pentagon.

Larry Scott and I went into the Pentagon officials and spoke with an assistant secretary of defense and told him of our plans. We don't believe in asking for permits because we don't think that we should ask for permission to do what's our right but we always notify them in the spirit of openness and nonviolence. So we had this meeting with with Pentagon officials and just inform them. And they said oh no you can't. You can't demonstrate on the steps of the Pentagon. No you certainly can't go inside the Pentagon into the what's called the shopping. I just can't be allowed. But you can go across a parking lot and hold your demonstration over there. Well we decided that that just wasn't where we were going to go and we didn't ask them for permission anyway. So we said we were going to wind up on the steps so a group of us that were prepared for arrest were going to be on the steps and the other others were going to be across on the parking lot. So we were there for five hours.

That day and we had again been informed that we were going to go into the shopping concourse the next week we started going into the shopping concourse which is like an underground. Shopping Center very huge it's about 100 yards long and open to the public. But the Pentagon did not feel that it was OK for us to read names of the war dead inside the Pentagon. They were getting a little bit more sensitive about that issue so they decided that the first group I think we had about six or seven. That's what they were going to arrest them so indeed they did escort him again very gentlemanly fashion. Of course of course it's all very gentlemanly except they put you in these places they call jails which are not so gentlemanly but anyway this is what happens the first group and then the next week the same kind of thing happened again. Begin gradual escalation and the third or fourth week they change the

charge for watering which is what they charge now which the first groups were charged with trespassing. Now we're hearing charges a 30 day maximum and the trespassing has a one year maximum. So as soon as they were then they they decided the next week when we had a much larger group that they were going to change it again back to loitering because they could see that their their escalation was only going to cause an escalation on our part. Here no more. So what we did is we just kept coming back and one of the weeks we had out of his battalion Requiem Mass for the word there. That was pretty interesting because rightists the man was reading the book and the priest was reading reading the Beatitudes Blessed are the peacemakers. Listen you know our persecutor righteousness and so on. At that very moment right when they were talking about peacemakers and those are persecuted that's when the police came and arrested them. And

you're now under arrest for blessing me. So then two weeks later we had a Catholic peace math down in the Pentagon. And this this time it was even an even larger group we reached up to 34 that week. And that means there is a very good spirit. And you can tell that there was a great change inside the Pentagon itself because I don't know whether you believe this but the Pentagon's own security forces. They would make announcements that employees Department of Defense employees please return to your offices and this is in the middle of their own shopping center that they're telling their own employees to go back to their offices. You know there's 30000 people who work there and thousands would have been in there of course you know they just didn't want them to see us. Well of course a lot of the people ignore that kind of thing. And the police were actually going among the crowd trying to persuade them to believe in trying to break them up and I remember at one point I was standing next to a full colonel and a security

guard is telling this colonel to move along. You know as if you were and this is inside the Pentagon this is the kind of repression that you know the whole process of arrest was quite gentlemanly except for the fact that I don't think that we were treated as roughly as some people have been treated. But there were several people there to spend in jail. The couple spent two days in jail for the capital protests. And there still are a group of about a hundred who were arrested at the Pentagon. None of that sentence perhaps some of you don't. And they could be sentenced up to 30 days and then they'd be if they were convicted they would be sent to Virginia state jails and that's still pending. That's still pending. The judge you still have it under advisement. So there are some people that may spend little time looking for the thing you don't. But again we try to. Try to make it very clear

to people that this is a recent case and I think by and large people would think that if you was going to you know. For through got it WILLMORE Young was the name of that 80 some odd year old man who was arrested at the Capitol. I spoke to him at the Friends Meeting House in Washington just as he was preparing to demonstrate at the White House. He talks about what he calls his piecework damaged Wilmer young. I live in Philadelphia. I'm the trade here a Quaker action group and I'm down here for this demonstration today or I'll be 82 next month. I guess I'm the oldest in this particular group and considerably above the average. Well how do you want to know about my first my first experience with several disobedience was in Omaha one in 1959 when we were protesting the

putting in of the missile site there near Omaha. That's when I climbed over the fence along with AJ much and a dozen other people that I have been very active with Peace Action work here in Washington every year with a piece back in the center there at that time we had provided regularly for about 18 months we had one of the White House mostly in regard to having a bomb in the air that it was some time ago. I don't well before they started and the cats sometimes piecework seems pretty discouraging but once in a while you make make something up. At one time Mr Kennedy said he saw he saw the women and I wasn't one of the women but he said I saw them and I got the message. And apparently he did get the message which so that he knew something

about the bomb test. Would you go and steps of the Capitol. Yes. On May 23rd when he rested with 10 others. Then I approached time I've been down here since that time you prepared to be arrested today. Yes but we were not expecting it will be arrested because of the various demonstrations at the capital like three finally have assurance that nobody even knows. The White House demonstration wasn't the usual sort. It wasn't filled with hippies and student radicals. These people were middle class Americans young men and young women and old men and older women. They weren't shouting or fighting. These were the sort of people you see every day in your supermarket or in your church or your living room. You'll hear some of their reasons for being there that day

and whether they thought they were doing any good. Why do you think the way I think at least with not letting the president the Congress and the Pentagon forget there are people are sharing with anybody any way they can. My actions unjustifiable we're simply. Exercising our American right to the government as a result of it. We'd like to see a necklace from not only the truth but all true. Thank

you. What am I going. To take him a message. And I think you're right. And every morning. Waiting for an answer to my request for an appointment and I've written so I'm about once a week. Or so there has been no answer. Letter doesn't get through the screening. And it probably won't. Happen and I'm going to keep trying as long as I have the right. Professional child psychologist in my life. I feel that I never. Special concern for the for the world. And. I feel that very much need to have. This Roy stopped at once so that they can have a future and not be destroyed and.

Mistaken attempt. Should. Be Stopped. And we should run out of international because otherwise. The feminization is when I think that we need in every way that we can. Help strengthen the president's hand for peace and. Help him to. Break through the military strategy and the diplomacy and. Answer. Receive the real people. The Americans but our the world. This appeal gets lost in all of your Euro credit shuffle I don't think there really is anybody in the. President's Council that's carrying a bra for people.

And the president could be that kind of person. He himself used to be a Quaker and he understands. Human compassion and the right and the individual. And this is what needs to make a breakthrough and to govern. And this is what I will try to get through. Here. Protesting a person's. Actions. Or his commitments or. Expression or dissatisfaction. It's difficult for me you know what you mean by a good way. A lot of different ways of doing it is this an effective way. No. That's a fact. A few well-placed bars are. Now. You know I whined to them yesterday.

Sometimes you have mutual interests. What do you want. My own. Why you here. Have. Been doing it here. No it's not. Personal like your views on registration or refusing taxes refusing telephone taxes all these different actions which you know which involve a lot more personal commitment. It's just that if.

Things don't come before the public. Because the people that we're reaching people reach to the people that are real people people. People who. Have been. Through two world wars and. Begun. A war that were several anything. Good really. Believed very

strongly. And Lincoln if you want to overcome and make the sign of his brilliance for Vietnam poverty for America what does that mean. What is that an economist the morning and then going to be much money left. And I will believe that once the war is over there is going to be money for other things. Almost anything else. Spend money on almost anything else we go to war is not a way of solving problems. We're coming to this but we haven't. Why do you say we're coming to it. Well we we have to come to. Power that we won't we won't exist anymore I'm not a young man I put out this morning to special excursion rate $30 I can go back today. And. I am 61 now and I believe. This is my Saturday. I think that even the street President

Nixon Now what happened to President Johnson I think he's forgotten already. I really do. I was go digital years ago I lost my job. So I know something about. How long. War is immoral. Not only that. I believe. Now you will hear Bob Levering talk about what kind of effect he'd like his demonstrations to have and what he thinks may happen to the country if the war continues. One of the older men who has them today at the White House said that President Nixon himself had been a Quaker Quaker family and that he would understand. How do you make them. I think that our actions would have to to become there would have to develop more pressure on him from us. We would have to begin more of a systematic campaign as we did at the Pentagon and the Capitol for President

Nixon himself to feel whatever wait we have I think that friction on Capitol Hill if you talk with. Any of the congressmen or senators they know we've been there some of them have actually been moved some of the more liberal ones have found it helpful what we've done in the Pentagon similar kinds of things can be said. We've we've bothered a lot of people just by being there. And it's persistence that's what's very important I think. No longer with regard to this Vietnam War our one day demonstration sufficient but it's necessary to keep going day week after week or day after day and build up a kind of movement so that there's a constant pressure. Because that's what the war is like and. Anyway that's how I think that it's only when that kind of pressures exerted on Nixon that he's going to finally react and I don't think that we alone can do it. It's going to take many many more people on broad spectrum of beliefs to change

the people who are being. You know start coming here. To some extent they're trying to save face rather than lives there. They've committed themselves to a policy which which they feel they cannot extricate themselves from. In any kind of honorable way. And so they instead of changing the policy they continue the same thing. To withdraw all American troops period there's They had no business being there in the first place. They have even less business being there now. And keeping them there is only going to prolong the agony. It's just that simple. Sometimes it takes courage on the part of leadership to explain to people that they made an error and I would say that the men would probably gain a lot more sympathy in this country by saying that that we made a mistake over there and that we should repent for it and that we should withdraw. That's that is what

made me politically in the short run he would not win as much but in the long run I think he personally in the country basically would win much much more. I just I can't see that there's any excuse for him not doing that. It's intolerable. I don't know. How to how to express the way that I feel about this war. Many of us feel this way. It's it's just gone on too far and the domestic costs are going to rise because what we're doing in the Capitol steps and we were a fairly mild group compared to a lot of them. And it's going to increase to the demonstrations all during the Johnson administration going to be like a picnic compared to what's going to be coming later with next. And it's it's entirely justified. I don't believe in violence at all. I wouldn't be involved with the Quakers if I did and I believe that through through strong nonviolent action will be able to help in this war. But there's going to be more and more violence if the war is not ended soon and it's going to be a lot of folks be put in jail. I mean we're going

to probably get involved in more civil disobedience action until this war is over and a lot of us are just going to say to this government in straightforward language that either you can put us in jail you win the war we're going to keep bugging you until until this war gets done. And the following. This is been a federal case. Your correspondent. His program was distributed by the National Education.