The world of the conductor; Mozart, the universal composer

The world of the conductor. A series of programs in which leading conductors of today speak about symphonic music in the 20th century. This is James Keeler inviting you to join us for this second broadcast bearing the subtitle Mozart the Universal Composer in which we'll continue our conversation with Erich Leinsdorf the world of the conductor is produced and recorded at station W.H. y y in Philadelphia under a grant from the National Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters. In today's program we're joined by the concert pianist Natalie hinder us. MS When Doris began this portion of our conversation with Erich Leinsdorf by questioning him as to an area of Mozart style. Do you know that operatic characteristics influence his symphonies and his solo literature particularly dramatic element.

You know Mozart Mozart is such a universal. The only completely Universal Composer. Just as I think that Shakespeare to my knowledge is the only completely universal writer. Now most of such a miracle because there was nothing nothing close to him. Now we speak about Bach and I think I have. I have made clear my unlimited admiration. But there were matters in their expression of human feeling which back never tackle which Beethoven never like there's nothing which moves at the nothing from the most horrid to the most body. Now I would hesitate to say what influenced him most of the other I think the universality of his genius. Einstein maintains that the theater was always his crowning. Accomplishment and where he felt himself most strongly involved even more strongly I can't say I mean I am I am so full of his of his

universality in every field. I mean if he if I have a mystery a very funny story Apropos of this I did know that the whole figure on Aykroyd's And before we ever started months ago the vice president in charge of icy victims Matic and I discussed certain policies that would be on cotton or that's the thieves who do everything complete and then we came to a very interesting moment of evil talking about these two village maidens who are singing at the end of act three you know in the wedding ceremony a monthly cost Auntie saying watch it or not and you know you always have in performances you either have two rather young singers who will know that these bows now are going to make their careers or they're going to sing it as beautiful is not the village maiden that somehow you have to know who are past their prime you know and still try to prove that they could do much bigger parts. So you

always have people who want to prove that great vocal beauty but this is not what this piece is all about. You have your piece which. It is one of the finest moon not you can't see battle day but take offs you know the new look look at the piece from this angle and there they sing in the middle. They suddenly forget and then they forget Mozart comes in as if it were some great martial piece with trumpets and kettledrums and horns you know to repeat the phrase where they get stuck and when we do it. Then at last into the mess we have made some stage business for them they look at each other with some dispersion and then they remember their lives and they continue saying well this you can't do on the records if you don't have your television you know. So we called up Mr. America did wonderful ideas and could we get two of the principals. To

sing those two roles those two village mates because they will have for that little spot the self-effacement to do it funny and not straight NOT TRY TO MAKE ME EVERY doing beautiful bill come through and be good little better people and Rosalyn the liars. This was not in the Caribbean of the cost to do that pace and when you hear this you know that it is family and it is really so funny because they sing in two flat studied voices you know as people do who cannot sing reality or not. And it is really screamingly funny and after that I picked up in Vienna if you haven't got your style and then I found the thing was in page 31. It's very interesting and I proposed a Mach 2 there's that Mozart never could find any inspiration in folk music. But whenever he deals with folklorist the elements it is usually

in this deep vein to make fun of this. After we had already made this very funny thing which of course some of the old starched stuffed shirts would consider Stackridge because everything you know not essentially has to be done is they deeply and as delightfully perfect as you can make it. Of course this would be the 19th century that you have most of is a dainty you know local composer which I do not share in this conversation with Erich Leinsdorf. We turned next to the subject of repeating both sections of the Mozart symphonies which are so marked by the composer. And we remarked on an unusual practice by Mr. Leinsdorf in the finale of his recording of the 40th symphony with the Rochester Philharmonic Orchestra. You repeat the recapitulation This is the first thing you take every repeat in that finale The only time I've ever done. And then came to my mind that gigantic repeat in the first movement of the Eroica which I heard on once was on record by Mengelberg

and the Brahms 2 which I've never heard and you and the Beethoven 7 which you take all the repeats which is a completely new experience that I have taken they're only good to at times and then I've abandoned this again and one of the very thinkings to get back to one of our i've repeated the first Brahms exposition. I can tell now that I recall having repeated the second Brahms and of course I will say that the circumstances under which you play work have a bearing with me. Now truthfully speaking I would not do all these repeats and if you know some of outdoor performance such as today because I do not think that one would do a any particular favor to the work by getting an audience which is not thus disposed. If you have another frame of. In which you play then. Yes I think these are matters which also should not be quite rigidly enforced and I would if

given the right conditions always preferred to do all the repeats. I do think that the repeat of the Eroica exposition might get to be almost too much. And any circumstance but I have done it I have done it and when I did it I thought it was right to do and I'm perfectly imperfect ability to forecast it in in two or three years and I'd be back in a very deliberate but I am X and I say that you'll take two LPs to give you one. Yes but what do you think of those Black Knight. That means they can exploit all of tape for example by the time it will be probably filming it or some such thing. No but you see now that the hard variations of Brahms which I recently recorded I know very few people who will repeat the second part of the seventh variation this is the one repeat which most conductors owe me and why do they all made it. Because in my humble opinion

and many times that who are sevens vary as you know the one the situational 16 existing slowly. Well this is another thing. If you hit the wrong temple and you find that things get to be boring. Well what do you do. You cut out the repeat is that the answer No the answer would rather be searched if you have got there around 10 thought if you get the right temperature would not be boring especially you know now we're speaking here with people who knew what they were doing. I mean we're not speaking of people who are just writing European or people who are composers who have to be corrected. Now I'm not I'm not at all. Dogmatically saying every composition should be played either in toto or under a bridge. But as I said we are dealing here in the stratosphere of masterworks we have so far not mentioned anything that hasn't got to do with undisputed Masterworks and there you really don't know.

And you know now I have I get now gradually as they come out the volumes of this new complete edition of Mozart you know there's a new example Osgar they're being issued gradually by the bear and the writer Ed. In Castle and I have been fortunate in having a subscription to it and getting each new volume and it is such a revelation. This is really the last word in critical edition. But what you see there when you reread this thing and any idea that Mozart was a dainty composer on a small neat scale is just the wrong thing if I ever was sure of any one thing it is this that Mozart has to be done always in the grand manner. Now what is so fascinating to me that speaking about the G minor Now I spent these last two weeks since I came

back from Europe mainly poring over the van that I had ideation of the G9. Well it has opened up so many new avenues of thought for me that I took the orchestra material. I have my own set of parts for most of the classical symphonies and they've begun to re mock the whole symphony new Nunu bowings and different phrasing the first of all and this I think is important for all people who are interested in Mozart and in. In in ideas which are not merely one man's interpretation but which are undoubtedly. It shed a light on the original intentions. All additions I know of up to this recent one of their own I make no distinction between staccato and staccato but most of it to the different markings that one was a staccato dot in the other one was a stuck out or what would you call it like you

like it or it looks like you're in the wrong. Yeah like a line a vertical line on top of the note. Yes and this is this is exactly what it is. Yes it is a mark out as an accentuation and I am looking more and more into it and I think there are even other things implied in this in this sign. But it certainly is an entirely different kind of stuck out. So it is a much more dynamic quality when it comes to string playing it should not be speak out for the speak out or you have the doctor you know the staff do you not. And I think that we have your whole world opening up by merely distinguishing between those signs and that this or that drop is not merely a strikeout assigned it is an axiom and MacArthur is proved that the peers often on the whole knows. Yeah well you can't play or not stuck out of there is no known way of doing that. There are the G minor places

where you note which is taught over tube hole bars is marked with one of those drop lines on top now and in this manner I mean whenever you get into a new into into a new discoveries you know you begin to rethink the whole thing and you come to more and more and more and when i area read the G minor in the new edition I came to the conclusion that what I had done already was not dramatic enough and frankly speaking I would just as lieve tomorrow go into a third recording of the G9 of with the two I have done already because in order to incorporate all of that which I think I have now. We'll continue this conversation with Erich Leinsdorf next week on the subject of Mozart's expressive markings and will again be joined by the concert pianist Natalie and heiress. This is James Keeler inviting you to join us then for the program subtitled Mozart Brahms and singers in the series the world of the conductor which is

produced under a grant from the National Educational Television and Radio Center and is being distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. Are going. To go. This is the end E.B. Radio Network.