NER Washington forum; American Dairy Farmers bill

The only purpose of a chart 38 16 is to control what amounts to a subterfuge in the importation of dairy products. The voice you just heard was that of United States representative b f Sisk Democrat of California. Our guest this week on the NE our Washington forum a weekly program probing the significant issues before us as a nation. Today a discussion on proposed aid to American milk producers this program was produced by the national educational radio network through the facilities of W am you FM American University Radio in Washington DC. I'm Bill Greenwood. Congressman be upset because currently serving his 13th year as a representative from the 16th District of California where he lives as a resident of Fresno he is a member of the powerful House Rules Committee and recently authored an important bill designed to weight American dairy

farmers. Congressman Sestak would you explain the purpose of that legislative proposal. Well yes Bill is I would say since 1953 there's been a rather slow increase in imports of dairy products of one kind or another coming in of various forms of through Kolby cheese certain types of of ice cream mixes and so on. All of a sudden not. How about mid 1965 this took a very rapid exhilaration. In fact to the bit it's practically tripled now in an in face of a regulated industry of which we have in the dairy industry here is subsidized in an attempt to try to maintain a reasonably decent domestic program. It seems of course completely ridiculous to me and to others to permit this tremendous increase in imports when in the face of it we're attempting to support

the price of dairy products. And of course it's readily available to see the inconsistency of this type and approach it of course that is the reason why we finally formulated the of bill H.R. 38 16 and introduced it and I might say by the way as of today there are 59. House members now have our co-authors along with myself and I believe 47 members of the Senate have put in bales. I notice a statement by Republican Senator Everett Dirksen this week on the same issue in which he also is backing aid to the American dairy farmer. Can we say then that this will be a bipartisan effort. Yes it's my understanding that there are pretty much an equal number of Democrats as well as Republicans that have joined in this effort I think there's certainly no partisanship involved. What exactly is the language of the bill as it would apply to this

importation problem. Well in an attempt of course to eliminate the president of Asians that are that have developed and if I can just briefly explain what they're doing. For example under regulations issued by the department to control imports they for example set a limit that of the amount of butterfat that a product can contain to come in. Well then what happens a foreign producer then immediately lowers say by one half of one percent. I don't know and maybe renames it called it by some other name and then ships it in now the same thing has it's true with reference to the use of sugar for example. There's a there's a limitation on dairy products milk products having to do with with sugar content. Here again they immediately change the shirt content either

to reduce it or are you increase it as the case might be to circumvent the law and bring it in. And so what to build up as it grows in very clear lines of distinction and simply says in essence that no butter no milk product 0 0. Butterfly at are are not fat solids can come in above a specific them out based on the 61 65 average now in 1665. We had a fairly steady increasing flow of imports not a rapid flow but it was flowing hand at about the rate of the domestic consumption increase that we were having in this country. And so we're using that as a basis and I might say that the bill is drawn so that it's fairly flexible. And will permit the importer to share in the

increasing American market but not to the extent of course as I say they're doing now through SEPTA Fuge and simply taking over the market and destroying the the present industry. Who are the main importers of this milk and other dairy type products at this time do you have any information on that. We have some I do not have it with me at the moment the ticker name saw the importers is a variety of people in the trade both on the eastern sea coast as well as on the western seaboard that are bringing this in importers generally who specialize in this type of thing. It's the same as we have among the importers for example in fruit both dried fruit industry and other industries where they specialize in the importation of certain types of commodities and that's what we of course we have here now as there isn't any question but what are some of the users of these dairy products.

Many of the companies in the country of course are making use of these and replacing of course are displacing domestically produced milk and the products are there any indications of collusion between these importers in the field of pricing as well as commodities. Well I wouldn't want to charge collusion I so far as we know from our investigation so I have no definite information that there is any collusion. I actually. If you take in in America of course the old idea is to make money and of course these companies who see an opportunity to buy a commodity commodity that will sail through retail outlets at lest say an equal amount of money and if they buy from an importer cheaper then of course that's what they're doing. Let's take for example cheddar cheese which is very definitely under oh under a quarter limitation. All right. What is happening is that some of the countries are making what they call a Coby cheese which is for all practical purposes the same as cheddar but they

call it they call it by different name it has a little different composition and it's being shipped in unlimited quantities today and taken a place on the retail market shows of cheddar cheese. This is I say is one of the subterfuges that are being used. And your bill would also apply then to importation of products such as this. Yes of course it would be. It would fall under the same limitation because I will provide for an overall imitation of of milk products in and by products of milk in any form or be in cheese or where it be in the form of something that could be used in ice creams are in butter or whatever it might be. It would be a blanket to control. And as I say would would limit any increases beyond. Their share of the normal growth of the domestic market. Has the Department of Agriculture to your knowledge taken any initiative in this for you.

Yes the department over the years since 1953 has from time to time changed regulations. They've attempted from time to time to revise their regulations to meet the changes in the in the names and cons and quantities of products that are being imported. For example they've changed regulations I believe is as late as two or three years ago having to do with percentages for example a butter factor. But each time that a change has been made on the part of the Department of Agriculture and having to do with regulating these imports we find the import immediately changing the percentages of the product in and again through evasion and subterfuge. The product continues to pour in and a little different form but still as I say fulfilling the same requirements of the domestic market.

When I have the Department of Agriculture has rules on this and changes them what makes you think that your legislation would stop this from happening. Well the way our legislation is is written as I say it gets away from this business of attempting to draw the lines at which it present are being thrown under the under I believe it Section 22 and goes to the point of Sampradaya is simply restricting and putting an absolute fixed quota on any kind of milk products and so that you tar everything in other words it blankets the whole realm of of of milk products. And instead of attempting to define each one to define percentages it would simply put them all under this quota limitation because of the importation does it appear that the American producer is not getting enough milk production at this time are we short on this field. Why do we

need to import. Well actually there have been some times in recent months of some months ago when because of prices because of the fact that we have a cost price squeeze in industry we had a drop off in production. There isn't any question about some of some problems that arose there basically because a dirty one was making the money stay in business Many were going bankrupt. Let's just be Frank Deford's what was causing that. Now at the at present time there is an overproduction today I was informed his latest Friday that many of the warehouses now are filled with powdered milk you know this is a byproduct of milk that butter is now beginning to stack up and develop a surplus. So there isn't any question but what we do have a surplus in many areas in this country and there is no justification whatsoever for continued imports. Now

as I say there has been for a great number of years in fact for at least some 15 years. Some importation of dairy products because in the whole area of reciprocal trade in our belief of trading buying and selling and our belief that it is good why we've continued to permit some of some imports and we expect to continue as this bill would continue and would continue to permit a normal growth of the domestic market. But as I say to me it's totally inconsistent and certainly very foolish to continue to permit the rapid exhilaration that has developed in the last year or so to destroy it which I believe it will destroy the American dairy industry. You say that the farmers are going out of business because of a lack of financial income resulting from importation and other factors what other factors are facing American farmers today.

Well. Course in this whole cost price squeeze as I say the cost to the very money of every facet of his business is only on the increase labor costs are going up. And here again the dairyman doesn't object to paying higher wages to farm workers and workers I dare if you in turn can sell his milk for a price that will permit him to pay our wages. There is a move movement upward and there isn't any question what these people are entitled to better pay the cost of his equipment the cost of milking machines the the new types of regulations and requirements that have to do with with the care and purity of the mill requirements both state and federal as to cleanliness and the handling of mail. All these things are in Croyde increasing substantially the cost of the dairy man.

In production of milk and naturally as these costs increase the price that he sells his commodity for he's going to have to increase there just isn't any way out else of course he goes and goes bankrupt and unfortunate as I say in the past 10 years I've had in my own district and I do have a very substantial dairy industry might effect a substantial number of small German predictor who have gone bankrupt because they simply could not fight this cost price squeeze this developed. Well now is this just a problem of the last decade or is perhaps this a recurring problem we seem to have a continual cry from the agricultural industry saying we need more money we're going bankrupt. Well of course there's a whole he's been a saying a long time I'm sure that farmers are great to scream and that it's depict go at their rugged individualists and that he is correct. I know as one who was born on a farm I can remember my father was never quite happy because

he always wanted to do a little bit better and there isn't any question but what many cases and it many times farmers do make good money and in many areas. However I think within the past decade for example the substantial increases in costs have been one of the problems whereas in many cases the commodity which the sale does remain fairly stable has been very little actual increase in cost to the consumer. Now consumer prices have risen to some extent but in most cases. The cost to the consumer has risen because of additional labor that has gone into the processing and and packaging of that commodity. Put on a housewife. There was a time for example when the housewife went to the store and she bought potatoes and took them home and watched him and peeled up and cleaned them and cooked them and so on. Today why she wants to take it out of a shelf and it's

already powdered she takes about a minute to mix a little water and you've got my potatoes and the same thing is true in vegetables the same thing is true in all kinds of dairy products is newer in fancier methods of packaging pre-cooked of commodities. These are the things that's increased the cost of food in the store. The truth of the matter is that in many cases when you check the list the farmer is getting less today for the commodity than he was getting 10 15 20 years ago. If the farmer does however get more money don't you think this would again result in an increase for that food item which he produces on the consumer level. I had I would say that in all probability that the dairy farmer on a gallon of milk gets an increase in price that there isn't any question but what a quart of milk or a half a gallon milk to the housewife it might go up to have a SAN or r r o r ascent but

percentage wise. The point I was attempting to make is that the percentage that the producer himself the farmer who actually grows a raw commodity gets a very tiny percentage of the cost involved. When the housewife goes to the store and buys a commodity I'm sure you've heard the expression for example about how much actual wheat for example is in a loaf of bread it's infinitesimal. If the few cents that the farmer gets probably two or three pennies and yet the loaf of bread toss you 30 cents will last because all the other things going just like a cotton shirt for example that cost you $5 is probably got 25 cents worth of cotton in it so that if the cotton farmer got a 4 3 4 cent a pound increase in the price of cotton it wouldn't change the price that $5 shirt a tenth of a percent probably an actual cost. And I think this is true it in a broad variety of

agricultural commodities. As I say the basic cost involved today. And most of all they are called for commodities or in the processing the packaging the precooked and so on go into those commodities. The problem area to which we refer of course drew wide attention starting in March when farmers throughout the country in 25 states as a matter of fact began pouring their milk onto the ground. It was pointed out they couldn't give it away to charitable institutions because it was not passed arised and they just dumped it. Do you feel that this milk withholding action as it was called. Will have any benefit in this field a price increase on the production level. Well I would think Bill that in this area anything that I would say would be speculating. We always hate to see any commodity. Certainly anything in the way of food destroyed are dumped yet on the other hand

I'm sympathetic with the problems these people have. I can understand the frustrations and the impatience that they've had with attempting to try to make ends meet when they're not getting an adequate price and so to a large extent as I say I'm very sympathetic. NOW I JUST as to what impact the present situation. With reference to the National Farmers organization and others that are involved in this present a milk dumping procedure will amount to I do not know. I am afraid that it could to delay some things. That we're hopeful of bringing about here in Washington in fact as I'm sure you know Bill and others many of us are continuing to work with the department very cultured with the government to try to get some beneficial actions taken are actions taken that we feel would be beneficial to their industry and now actually there's a Tennessee not to. Be black jacked into action and you can understand the concern of the department

people and to some extent those I was who are urging hearings for example on this bill before Ways and Means recognize of course that again Congress is not likely generally to act under less of a blackmail or too much pressure. So although I'm sympathetic with what these people are doing as I say in attempting to try to get an increase in price. I question that the immediate results are going to be good I'm afraid it might tend to slow down some things that we are trying to do at the government level both in Congress and in the department of UN to kape then that perhaps this milk dumping as it's been called may have an adverse reaction among legislators and officials concerned with this problem. Well as I say those of us who I think are generally familiar with the problems of the farmer in particular the dairy industry are very sympathetic there's no question about that. On the other hand I think there is a possibility that this could react

against the well being of the Dare I might say in line with what these people are doing out there I joined with a group of of Khorasan people a great people in my own district last fall and and even went to a picket line where they were picketing in attempt to organize a Marketing Association to try to be in a position to set the price at which they were going to sell to the bargain because they had beaten down the price of raisins of wanted to go or simply couldn't make it. He again was being caught at cost price squeeze. I have urged that organization out there. I might say it's developing it's a sign of quite a lot of grapes I think they're going to make headway in a sense these very people are doing the same thing that I was urging her and so I'm sympathetic to efforts to try to have something to say about the price that you sell a commodity which you spent all year and sacrificed a lot of Toyland and money and everything else to produce. And I

think farmers and title some right to say but here again as I say these things all have to be done with reason and with judgment and. I know I'm a little afraid that over doing these things in particular to the point of coming out of promoting violence and some of the things we've heard in the last few days could react against him of course. You've thrown some economic answers at me on a couple occasions here today. Congressman I'd like to question you want another aspect of that. Perhaps the most dramatic example of this milk withholding situation came in Tennessee where a Nashville stores literally had no milk to sell even though millions of gallons of milk had been dumped in that area. Don't you think with the tremendous volume of milk which has been wasted that it will take farmers a long time even with a price increase to just break even at this point. Well of course this is always a question. I happen to have been a member of organized labor back many years ago and I walked picket lines

and I've had the question raised to me that well after all you're out on strike now you're seeking a 25 cent an hour in a pay increase but if you stay on strike let's say a week or ten days or if it lasts for a month aren't you going to lose more than you're going to gain on the other. I and this is always a question that arises any time and certainly to the farmer today dumping a thousand gallons of milk. How long is it going to take him. At a 2 4 5 cent a gallon increase or whatever the figure might be to make back what he's lost and this is an economic fact of life. But in the long run I still think it's worth the effort. There isn't any question in my mind. But what of the right to strike which Labor has enjoyed. As has tended to help the working man and improve his standard of living I think that the right to to take such action as he can on behalf of the farmer to try to have

something to say about price his product will in the long run prove to be an asset to farmers as a whole. There may be individual cases in which a person may never regain what he has lost here. This is a change we take in life if we're fighting for a principle in these people I think we're fighting for a principle and certainly believe it. Well I think they believe in it I think it is something that they are in good conscience are doing even though they're taking a chance that in the long run they may be hurt economically but doing it with a tremendous surplus which is now becoming a matter a point. We've gone through this milk withholding action and it did not appreciably affect sales in some of the states. Would you say that there are maybe too many farmers. Well of course this is an argument. I'm sure Bill you know goes on here in Congress year in year out and I know I've I've been faced with it during the past 13 years when the committee and I are culture comes out with various kinds of legislation having to do with a program for a week or cop or corner comeback

or riots or whatever it may be is it. Well don't we is it a fact we have too many farmers. Are do we have too much land in production. And these are questions that I have no ready answers for yet on the other hand the American people are the best fed people in the world. And on a percentage of cost per hour or so work put in American people all of us because we're all consumers enjoy the lowest priced food on the face of the earth. And so I would say that all in all the American farmer has a record to be proud of. He's been up and down there been times when because of of war and emergencies in which we've been involved when the farmer was asked to go all out to increase his production increase the land under cultivation and he did. He entered the call as we have back through

the years throughout our history. And then of course when the time comes and thing simmer down. And. And Leslie the need decreases. Well then of course it's always a matter of readjusting and cutting back. But here is an area in which as far as I'm concerned I think the farmers should at least to the extent we have a domestic market should be able to enjoy the domestic market. Free of foreign competition within let's say reasonable balance now as one who has supported reciprocal trade agreements who believes in trading among nations. I recognize that we can't close our doors I'm not a high Terry and I sense but I do say that to the extent that we permit imports that those countries are going to have to permit us to export from our country and import into their country. And if there has to be some about us and that we cannot stand by and see a segment of American Irish culture destroyed by just unlimited imports in addition to your importation bill what

do you foresee as a future course of action to aid the farmers. Well of course. In coming from California where we are deeply involved what we call specialty crop production because this is one of the largest areas of my economic life and the things that we're concerned about in California. Of course we are seeking through self-help type of programs through marketing orders and through marketing associations to try to solve a great many of these problems are say almost to try to get the government out of this business of direct subsidies which grew up to a large extent back in the Depression days of the 30s when I as we all know the farmer wasn't in very dire straits and of course had he been driven to the wall had production gone down of course the American people all of us as consumers could have suffered. So it was felt at that time it was

necessary to do things that were done. I for one believe that more of the faster we can get back to it. But as I say the types of cooperative agreements through marketing associations through marketing or dish which we have many up in California locally controlled by the farmers themselves the better off we'll be. And this is a direction which of course it I I hope we can move I think we are gradually moving in that direction. Congressman Swiss Guard time's up. We thank you very much for being our guest this week. You've been listening to a discussion of proposed aid for American dairy farmers featuring United States representative b f Sisk of California. This is Bill Greenwood inviting you to listen again next week when the NEA our Washington forum presents a discussion on continued dangers in American automobiles featuring attorney Ralph Nader author of the bestselling book Unsafe at Any

Speed. Other guests scheduled for future appearances include the honorable Ferris Bryant director of the cabinet level office of emergency planning and Dr. Glenn S. Board chairman of the Atomic Energy Commission in the NE our Washington forum is produced through the facility is a W am you f an American University Radio in Washington D.C. This is the national educational radio network.