The Story Behind the Theatre; The Actor As An Artisan

New York City Theatre capital of the world Riverside radio brings you the story behind the theater. And. The man or woman behind the footlights as an artist but the actor is also an artisan a specialist rigorously trained through study a routine of making the rounds acting classes auditions and rehearsals all constant aspects of the actor's daily life. Today we explore this other world of the actor as Lyle Di Jr. managing director of the Equity Library theater discusses the actor as an artisan with Jay Barney many a media star who has appeared in numerous Broadway and off-Broadway productions and Eddie Weston performer in every theatre vehicle for over 20 years and a vice president of Actors Equity Association.

There was a whole two of these but stages it's loyalty. There's been recent reports that have stated that some 2061 actors were employed during this past season from a total membership in Actors Equity Association which is the union for professional actors. Total membership of 13000. Now this kind of figure doesn't sound like the type of profession that would attract people. And yet the ranks seem to be swelling each year. So I think the question we can concern ourselves with today is how does an actor survive in this kind of a surplus labor market and also can he survive by merely being an artist or doesn't he have to have a certain sense of business today as would any good salesman or any kind of a an executive who has something to sell. So he has a vice president of equity. Would you say that this 2061 working out of a total membership of

13000 is a realistic or better still a typical kind of figure for a theatrical season is it always this bad has it usually looked this glum in the past few years. Well that's a pretty typical figure. Actually the 2061 figure that you have here I think is a little misleading. That probably. Is the height of the winter season in New York I have a feeling that during the summertime when more actors are employed in stock and throughout the country that the figure is considerably higher. But I would say it's pretty average yes. So it gets better but never I'm sure would approach having a majority of 13000 people working. No never right. Well these are our equities figures there are other many other theatrical unions which probably both you and J have worked with after a television and radio and SAG Screen and Vall Variety Artists and musical artists and it is the employment

picture. Well Jay as far as you're concerned as bad in those areas are there's a great deal more television we hear than stage work does a picture look I think that from any actors point of view it's terrible and the stage is terrible on a screen and terrible television and yet people still come into the business they still make a success of things. And many of us to make our entire living from the business. Too many actors assume that because they have a talent that the people who employ that TO will come and seek them out. Not true at all we all know of many brilliant actors who work hardly ever. And when you see them work you think my lord where they've been all these years such a brilliant talent. On the other hand you find actors that have very little talent by our standards who work all the time and you discover there's someplace in between a combination of businessman and experienced expert actor which each person must kind of arrive at a person with all the talent in the world can never get a job unless he makes himself available makes his job known sends out cards knows people has a good active agent on the other hand many people with very little talent if they have actually promotional abilities or are personally endowed as are

many girls in the business can get ahead brilliantly but because they are pushing a certain thing and it's a combination of business vs. talent I think it makes a success no matter where you go. This is precisely what I want to get into today I think was Merrill Johnson wrote the book called Acting is a business. Yes he does. Would you let me ask you as as a working actor and one who's built quite a reputation. Managing your own career on a business like basis is probably the epitome of the book acting as a business. You obviously think then that the amount of time and energy you spend on promoting yourself to promote at job is a necessary part of the actor's life today in other words to get on stage you've got to do an awful lot off stage a very important and I my analogy is always this if I were in the business of selling an automobile a Ford or a Chevrolet and I were ashamed of Ford or Chevrolet I shouldn't be in the business and I'm not ashamed of my abilities Jabe already and as an actor. Therefore I have no qualms at all about saying what I've done the kind of notices I've gotten the kind of reviews I've gotten other people whom I've worked there for my book is for this is a very

snobbish business if I go into a casting director he doesn't know who I am I've discovered a long time ago he's impressed by with whom I worked. Therefore if I can show him or say for Aaron James Stewart into the bank it is surely both. Without even opening my mouth he is already on my side because he respects the people with whom I worked and mentally he probably says well if he's good enough to be most bankers leading men he said is good enough for my own Broadway show therefore bought half the pictures in my book are in a sense namedropping pictures the rest the pictures are pictures of myself and various kinds of character make up. So what I'm selling Jay Barney all the time now the problem is you can't blow your own horn so much as somebody shoves it down your throat. And the technique is to stay in the mind without getting in their hair and this becomes a very fine line. I for example have lists of of our lady casting directors in New York to whom I take a yellow road about once a month. Now the idea of giving gifts is to keep it so small it couldn't possibly be conceived as a bribe. I don't give away cases of liquor as many radio people used to or pipe parts of housing or furniture or even cars and bicycles and scooters for their children. But I take it with a yell rose couldn't possibly in their

estimation be a bribe but it does make my name cross my memory and as you both know and I certainly do from having cash shows myself it is one thing to know a person and his ability to admire him is something else quite again to think of that person at the right time. Then you do feel it definitely has a promotion kind of thing must be done. Exactly and as long as it isn't based upon phony quotes or doesn't become unpleasant or distasteful. Oh is legitimate. Then I think the oftener you can make your name crossed that person's mind the more jobs I'm going to get. But he being sort of a triple threat man actor singer and dancer. When you're not working or when an actor isn't working just like a businessman a sportsman what can an actor do to keep himself in readiness short of going to constant classes doesn't this reach a point of no return. Does an actor have anything to do to keep himself in practice like a golfer can go out and play golf. But an actor can't always act. Well yes first of all you do get to the point of saturation going to classes not that you stop learning but you just get to the point where you feel you should be working

and mentally I think you you almost resist. My family keeps asking me what I do when I'm not working and it's hard to convince them that I have busier when I'm unemployed. Oh absolutely. When I'm working I seem to have time to get a shot. Yes I know you get get all kinds of things done your correspondents improves and everything else. But when you're not working it's as Jay said it's a constant trial you're seeing people you're promoting yourself and trying to do it with some taste so as not to make yourself offensive to people. Many actors keep in condition by going to workshops where they work with other actors on scenes. He shows the best example I can think of of going out and and constantly working and this is for no pay. It's hard for me to imagine a plumber who wasn't working who would go out and work on pipes just to keep his fingers nimble. But actors are very conscientious people and they must always be doing something that will improve their craft. Well then you're improving the craft is the key word I think but where you see

expression of making rounds actually making rounds isn't quite as specific as it would sound then is it you're not necessarily making rounds to an office because they're casting something tomorrow. No sometimes a certain ages resent people making rounds and people who do make rounds for the category of a small harp players bit players are extras so there's a danger in that respect to that of course in Hollywood you can't make rows at all because you are immediately one of the untouchables if you do that because you look at everything about an agent and it's almost unheard of when I could ever approach a director or producer directly with me to a party or something of that nature. Here in New York I've reached what I hope is a kind of have a compromise if I'm in the neighborhood of a half a dozen different ages out up up and never try to annoy them when they're busy I usually just tell the secretary of the J bar to drop by is available or I'll drop off some clipping that I perhaps a cup cut out of newspaper that he might have missed I would make a point to read seven newspapers a day in variety and the Hollywood Reporter. Radio TV and back stage and show business so I'm aware of what goes on. So I make it

a point to drop by the office say I dropped in leave a clipping tell us short jokes so they can pass it on to the person and amazing that since the activity is always going on I would say that about 25 percent of the jobs I've gotten have been just walking you know it always the right time. They might think that therefore the more officers you walk in the more jobs you'll get. Not true because not only no Asians can be seen not all Asians want to be. I want you to see them out often. But it's kind of a forgotten art I discovered of actually getting I've used the scooter of course in my role in making But just to Shank's mare if you have to and go in and leave your name or say hello and remind you of the fact that you're there and available. Just be there. I think it's true to his not that nothing gets work like having work you have to say that again son while while you're busy it isn't and you know other words in a showcase whether it's a Broadway show or an IDL T-Shirt Hell doesn't this arouse more interest in you simply because you can be seen rather than making the rounds don't you often get into the vicious circle. Yes I've heard of you but I

don't know you work when you doing something let me know. Now it's a problem and very often Asians want to go out and see the e l t show or see the OP go to a place that a studio was all doing because in many cases studio talent scouts have lost their jobs because they didn't cover a certain show on Iraq Study Group picked up let's say by Warners when they said to the prime Imam Where were you when he was not available that night. There's a new paramount there the next week so they have to cover them but it is true I think smartly up to the actor too once he gets the off-Broadway show with the LTA show to use that as a reason any reason you could find for calling the agencies have to say call and say I'm unemployed please give me a job. But the publicity angle is the fact that I ride a scooter frequently gets me publicity stories newspapers and Broadway shows and I mean once you get the notices and I've always found it to be very advantageous to have them printed up you know what I do is usually put about 4000 I might take all the notices of the eight or nine critics or however many gave me good notices. They support a piece of paper. They are for themselves or the critics name a couple of pictures in the shows and send this out in great quantities.

Tell me where the agent comes into this I don't know if either both of you have agents or I don't want them or don't need them but how important is an agent to an actor in that you're trying to make rounds to see an agent to have an agency you rather get your work and the agent has to bombard the casting director before they can get you were reading. Argh can you do this pretty much on your own do you feel the agent is absolutely essential in California I take it it is theirs to help one of those not work at all I think without ever discussing this with each other there is no question of the fact you cannot exist in California without there today you can get it and get a CDL you can go to but here you can so how how large do they loom in the picture. That varies I can say you do very well without an agent when you really need one the most which is at the beginning. Agents are not always very helpful to you unless you find someone who sees in you something that is to them very interesting they think they could make a lot of money on you in the future. But suddenly a performer finds that he's going to be fairly well known in the industry and he's able to approach casting directors and producers and directors who he knows

personally and suddenly the agent swoops in and there he is. Now there are very many good agents in this business and they're very necessary because they can speak for you the way you can offer yourself without sounding really like a conceited ass. You cannot blow your own horn too much without really sounding ridiculous sometimes. An agent can that's his job he's there to tell you when to fight for you. And they also have to have connections that we don't have. Yes they are constantly and it made you a different kind of connections that we were up against the problem with Asians particularly as now I have an agent and I would realize if I could he had to be 35 or 40 other clients so that best I'm getting one fourth of his time. What I wrote for myself I get 100 percent of my time so many jobs I get on my own but I let him handle it for the money of the book for the viewer from the billing point of view and the one danger. For example if you're William Morris Ramsay you get lost in the shuffle. But isn't it true that when most of the New York directors are casting and eye contact agents for a

list and these are the people they see only those that come through agents. Primarily yes but I think the one wonderful thing about Broadway as opposed to maybe other sections of the industry is that it's possible for almost anybody to be seen get a reading or at least a hearing of some kind for a Broadway show. Most casting offices producers offices are almost always open you can send in the picture or resume or go up and be seen. It doesn't mean that they're going to give you a reading because if they need a short fat man and your tall thin guy you know it's not possible but they will screen people. And naturally if you have a good agent and a well-known agent your chances are much better for getting in the door. Jay how many people have I just walked into offices off the street. It's amazing how many and it depends of course a lot of people the director some drugs make a point. Because energise you are going to people like that make it a point on a certain day to see people who are not said by agents who just come in off the

street. I was just reading a Judy attitude does the casting for the joy of it all George out of office and for all the friends sees everybody and says announces the day is that she will see people in the hours and asks people to come in and see her. There's no secret getting into the office. But there's still no such thing except for BLT which is one of the reasons inequity helps to backy L.T. because it does have open casting. There is virtually no such thing as open casting and we're looking at these figures with 13000 actors really how could there be but seldom do you do you read an ad Do you saying. We need these characters open casting today about six years ago CBS tried this and they would have I think it read as high as 4000 actors in one afternoon would come by and they walked by a table where half a dozen different directors salaries table to give the name of the fellow is a yes or no. And they this way I think Bob fry right at that they thought they could get new faces also remind directors of all faces. But Trouble was they got to be kind of out of hand it got

so big that funny actors would begin to look at it with this favor and if you're caught in the line this was also kind of another one on the other one insurance Yeah. You are going to CBS casting call good God then. I'd like to get into something that has always fascinated me and that is how can a union that's affiliated with a half of the CIO help an actor. It seems almost in Congress that the actor has a labor union behind him although we've just been talking about the kind of labor problems that exist for an actor but Eddie for instance in what ways can a union help an actor he can't get him jobs that well that's true. It helps an actor really in two ways. First of all about setting certain basic minimum is in salary we see that the producer cannot pay less than well a living wage I don't really call our benefits living wages in all instances when you consider $45 or off-Broadway and that's a living wage then I'm living in the wrong economy. But.

This is one type of protection that a union has the other and equally important type of protection is to protect the actor from himself. And there again you can only do so much to protect an actor from the manager but when it comes to protecting an actor from himself you have a little more difficult job. California for instance is a great field. We have a lot of actors who have recently moved to California this past couple of years we've seen an influx there of almost a thousand Equity members. For years we had a steady figure of maybe something like fifteen hundred Equity members on the West Coast and now it's about twenty five hundred. So everybody is going out to the land of opportunity not so much to work in the theater but movies and I guess primarily television. But in order to get jobs you find that people will do anything to be seen out there including changing their name to work in little nonunion theatres so the casting directors and agents will come down and see them. And so our

job as I say is equally important job is to protect an actor from himself from giving away what he should be selling and if an actor wanted to give away his services that would be fine with me if it didn't involve other actors but it does. And so we have to protect the actors from that. If we call them professional actors members of equity and this is really the only the only term to judge a professional against a nonprofessional is not if you belong to the union. Well certainly it is so far to approve that if a professional is going to work for money you most certainly belong to actors like what you have so they're so do. This is not by any means the way I see it we are certainly all agree any guarantee of talent you know large or small. Well how do you how do you become a member of equity. You can't just go up and say here's my niece you know I want to you know like this is the funny thing you have to get a job first. Now everybody says well you can't have a job unless you have members of Actors Equity and you can't be a member of Actors Equity unless you get a job and then where do you start that's not quite

true. You can get a job without being a member of Actors Equity. You can go up to the office and get a rating for a show if you're so lucky and if they want to hire you you do not have to be a member of Actors Equity they can hire you. But once you sign a contract you must join and therefore you get your membership. But there is nothing so restrictive. We are not a close union. There is a difference between a closed shop and a closed union. We are an open union we are a closed shop. But obviously the Union takes in a good good number of people it has jumped 3000 in the past couple of years. But it's not mainly in summer stock isn't there an apprentice type of siesta so you can almost earn a union affiliation. Yes certain Some are stock the others are allowed to have what they call apprentices and these people pay for the most part for that privilege of painting sets and watching and getting small parts. And in most instances I can't be too sure of this I think it's after two seasons of serving as an apprentice you must become an equity member but you have to have appeared on stage and someone says

something harshly I think and in 1949 I mean if the elements ever struck committee me a fellow that was being abused and we thought it had a chaotic care the words of the few most obvious crooks but then they came out I call it the fact that they were very serious they would pay $500000 and never guarantee you a part to play and they would invite you when you get in the palace in dollars they work like a horse all summer and say a summer there were no parts are put you're a couple small parts and you would never become a member of equity. Let me finally say that if you appeared in three productions each season for two seasons you were then entitled to it and the young that you had to join. Otherwise you'd be depriving aiptasia or already in an Audi that's the whole point exactly the point is not for us we're not trying to get new members and we're not in the heart of our intention of saying that we need the new members because we have more than we need right now but we have to prevent people from being taken advantage of again and by using apprentices who would pay the producer what they were doing in effect was taking jobs away from professional actors and so we didn't want to stop the apprentice system. But we figured that it should not be taken advantage of.

CAN THE UNION be as helpful to an actor let's say as an agent can. If an actor has a job is working on a show. Will the union help him with certain contractual details or is this absolutely up to the actor or his agent or can the actor always go to the union for legal advice. CAN THEY DO THIS TO ME. Yes. For instance one of the greatest problems is anything that is not contained in the contract. We do not recognize the union that is and very often will make private agreements with producers calling for certain conditions and equity must approve this and we do this so that the actor will come to the office and say this is what they want me to sign or what they've told me or suggested there I want to sign this. And our attorneys will look over that of the staff to make sure that it's above board and quite proper. And then a copy of this must be approved by us and be filed with us and then it becomes part of the contract. But so many times prior to doing this or possibly even now and actually making an

agreement with the producer and it is a little shady in some instances we do not recognize it. And of course with her at all times armed with big legal staff and lots of people to keep the actor out of trouble and to help him when he needs advice about this sort of thing I always feel like should be tattooed a part of the actor's right arm when he joined jeopardy by having things in writing. Because I have learned through hard experience I found it now I have even the billing I'm going to have in the program in the how sheets on the Herald the house boards down in my contract it will be in so-and-so type it will be thus and so it relates to other people. And if this person is a costar then I'm going to because starting the case of Mr. Bankhead For example I was doing the romance of hell and train every day and I had to be in New York it was done live. So because I couldnt get these like the money I wanted I took somewhat less money as long as I had this paragraph saying I could be in New York every day from 11:30 to 12:45 to do the romance of Helen Trent. Now we tried out in Boston Philadelphia Baltimore every day I would commute I had scooters at the Boston Airport a scooter like how do I look like a Porsche. Almost bank it didn't even know about this until one day I got up to

see vs in the afternoon she sleeps in about 6:00 in the morning or two in the afternoon and works her day usually from midnight to 6:00 and I got I missed the plane so I was about seven minutes late and she said where is Jay and they said he's in New York and she thought perhaps being having a tooth fixed or being fit if you had to pay something and thought oh I will wait and then tell me so he goes to New York every day and boom out of the sale. After she had mental about this we had a long talk at night and found that those amount of toll that it was in my contract and she said well if you get on once more I'll let you go and I still have to go down and she shouldn't apply. You must you must be a min of money darling and I said I know it's 33 dollars a day on radio I pay 25 on a plane going back and forth to Scooter I had hardly any sleep. If you should fire me who would believe that they think I was a lousy actor. If you were a hit I stand to make about 15 $20000 so the cars are all yours I actually said well why did you quit and I said well I gave my word out to people in the park as long that it was me I had to go back to my work and it was just the right thing to say I get it because she said well I haven't broken my word in 38 years so. All right go ahead darling. Have the right you

out of Philadelphia when I did they brought me out of Philadelphia she broke the head of Philadelphia we were dark until about the first time. A two hour break you know I had no health insurance because I'm going to look back because I want to. But how do you do a good deal of commuting back and forth between the West Coast and here really and decentralisation of course is a problem in the theater but if an actor either as an artist or an artisan wants to get the kind of background experience or what have you that will make him ready for anything that might come to him in New York. Where can he go aside from him. You mentioned Los Angeles do some television work what have you but it's rare exception now isn't it that an actor will come to New York with a good deal of solid professional experience behind him and sort of know what to expect in terms of what you've been talking about today is two that the business end of it how to sell himself. If it isn't New York it's almost nowhere. Yes there are I suppose Chicago Detroit the major cities where there might be some opportunity where there are universities with good drama

departments and opportunities to work with good stock companies. But for the most part this is only my opinion it may not be true at all that New York is the with the one place where a performer really can learn all of the things that are necessary. He may not learn them but everything is here waiting for him. I don't know where else you can get this kind of training as I don't think it exists in Los Angeles the way it does here it's amazing what a wide range because I know people like to hike and resemble Herbert Berghof who don't charge much money but it worked like a dog to hook are thoroughly immersed in training people and who delight in finding new talent so they range all the way from people like that up to organization that charge off a lot of money but they have no particular interest in the idea it's kind of a group kind of a General Motors type of production where there are far more people to possibly be trained or used and it's a great deal of takes to get determined to find out which of the places to go to and you do well by checking with many actors who have participated in all kinds of groups to find out what they got the most good from. And yet many of those people themselves produce and direct play so there

again is no source of employment and they have guest directors regularly I know in the American Theater Wing of the race and I got the romance of how the trip was that one of the courses was a kind of a survey and they had 12 different directors come in for 12 weeks and had this class of about 15 actors do a particular production of that director and many of us got jobbed out of it how they met these directors in a working session which is an excellent way of doing it. Well I think what you two have taught us today is that every actor should take a good business course first. And all I'm sure will be seeing you on stage will probably would see you more often if we frequent the casting offices and the casting off of the unemployment office in your various brokerage firms and so forth. But thank you for being with us today. The story behind the theater today the actor as an artisan Lyle died junior managing director of the Equity Library theater has been talking with actors Jay Barney and Eddie Weston about the actor and his job. The accepted authority on the play's successes and shortcomings is the professional drama

critic but it is the audience to whom the play is directed. On our next program Judith Crist fine arts editor a drama critic for The New Yorker and Henry Hughes drama critic for the Saturday Review described the theater played by the critic and the audience. Listen next week when New York City the theater capital of the world Riverside radio again brings you the story behind the theater. Produced and recorded by Riverside radio WRVO are in cooperation with the Equity Library

theater under a grant in aid from the National Association of educational broadcasters. The Metropolitan FM station of the Riverside Church in the city of New York. This is the end of Radio Network.