Exploring the child's world; Institutional posture

Oh. The child is father to the man as we hope for a world of men of good will. We must look to the conditions of the child's world to achieve it. So we search for the laws ways and means the sources of the capable spontaneously whole adult. It is not strange that the world of the disturbed child throws light on childhood in general. Although Father Francis Duffy chairman

of the Department of Sociology at Duquesne University was not at first looking for this light when he started working with the disturbed child. He found however that it is not that the disturbed a delinquent child is completely removed from society. Rather that his position is more extreme and so its obviousness offers us a sharper clearer insight into the world of children to share the fruit of his research funded duffing into Cain University presents a series of recorded interviews with delinquent children followed by a short discussion in which the child and his problems are explored for insight. Here is Father Duffy to preview the problems of the child who speaks in exploring the child's world. Father Duffy. The interview that follows was recorded at the juvenile court detention home. The 17 year old white Catholic girl is one of five children. She is of Irish American heritage. Her mother is dead. Her father is a blue

collar worker. He is not a drinker but this is one of his few virtues that he doesn't drink. He appears to be totally unconcerned about his children since the girl was seven years of age. She was shunted from detention home to a series of other institutions to are from ages 1 Institute for Children for foster homes three wage homes two free homes one public shelter and a girl's service center. She returned to her father briefly and it didn't work out. She is now completing the full cycle she's back again at the detention home. Her school record is quite poor. Her more recent employment history matches her poor gentle adjustment. She has quit six or seven jobs in the past 10 months. She is embittered and critical of adult society. Let's listen now as this socially operated child reflects the picture that she receives and transmits of a child's world.

You were here before what happened you were sent that time home to my father. I left my father and I went to live with one of my girlfriends and things didn't seem to turn out there so I went away. I mean I left them and I went to live with my other girlfriend and did a little work out there either so my probation officer placed me in a temporary shelter home because I had no place to go and I met my boyfriend then. Well it was too late so I didn't go back. I went to rest and I stayed there till 2:30 in the morning and then I hitched a ride to East Liberty and I stayed in East Liberty until morning and I definitely was not going to go back to my father and I was afraid that the emergency shelter wouldn't take me because I had come back that night so I had no other choice but to come to the detention home I say. I always said that I wanted to live with my father know a thing like that. I had run away from a

foster home and then they took me back to high school. I was getting along pretty good there. And then one day my girlfriend called up and she we had a conversation on the phone and Mr. Rhymes was listening in. And I told my girlfriend that I would leave them next June when I'll be 18 and him and his wife told me that night that I wasn't going to wait until I was 18 that I could leave right now. And they brought me here. Then I had gone to a foster home. You run away from there too. No no I did not run from there. I told the people I didn't like it there and they brought me back here and they put me in senior girl's Department and then I went to the Good Shepherd's home and I liked it there I stayed there about 20 months. Tell me what happened back as far as you can remember. There. I was in the Holy Family orphanage Institute. What happened to your mother and father before that. Oh my mother was in the hospital. She was

very ill. She was in a state hospital for communicable diseases and my father was home with us. How many children. Five. And we were getting along pretty good. And then you know living with him and going to school you know then I don't know. My relatives called the court and said we were getting neglected and so the court took over and so we were sent to an orphanage run by nuns and. And we were there for a long time off and on for a long time. And then after that I was sent to the institute and then I ran away and I was in a foster home and then for a while in the good shepherds and in the girls service club and I was everywhere except the training school I did. I really think that I don't belong there. I don't know why it ran away but when I go somewhere I like it a lot when I first get there the first two or three weeks you know I I think it's really wonderful and I get to know the people and I

really I get to like them and then something just enters my mind before I know what I ran away again. And every time I go somewhere I have my probation officer like I ask you to come up to talk to me the other day and I know I ran away and everything and but I asked her if it would be possible to get me placed in a wage home. And I told her that I would really try this time right away she gives me a story where you ran away from here and you ran away from there and you were already placed in a wage home and it didn't work out. I'm always getting that over and over when I get home is that and I sure do. I guess anyone would that I have to hear it in and day out and they remind you of your parents you know and I have to hear about my father and if you don't like it here you can go back where you came from and what has happened to the other four children in the family. I have a little sister and brother still in the orphanage and one of the colored by and so we go through a lot of my father's house. And I have one

brother in the service. You never really had a home and did you know you miss it you miss having a home like you so like when we were all together it doesn't seem like we're all the same family you're strangers to each other. Yeah. Did you ever get much affection. Oh no I guess not. No I think so. Nobody really like you. I don't think so because if they did why there would be somebody I was attracted to and somebody would have taken me along go and I would not have to go through all this. So I don't think this is going to make you better. I guess you must have because some days I just sit down thinking oh I could just murder a person I get under this and miserable. And that's what happens when I'm in a foster home or something I think to myself Well I'm working for somebody else. Why couldn't that be my father and my mother my brothers

and sisters in a home like this. And I think in my mind what if I can't do it for my family I don't want to do it for their family and I ran away. I can't explain it to anybody who tries to help me. You know for another thing my sister was all upset one day and she had called and I was talking to her and she told me that she was going to run away. Well I didn't know what to do so I told my father you know. And I said you know God called me and she said she's going to run away. And he says oh no let her go she ain't hurting anybody but herself. And I was really upset because I didn't have anybody to turn to and no one would help her out. So I called my older brother and and he told me not to bother him that I have a father to turn to. So I mean you see like my father doesn't care about us. So I would just just some rather not live with him.

My worker told me that she said there is a possibility that I will go to Muncie to State Reformatory for women yet which I don't think I deserve to go to Muncie because I never did a thing wrong a day in my life. I did run away. Yeah well that was a mistake. But you said that you wouldn't want things to happen to Mildred to happen to you when you ran away. Would you care to go into that. Well like like all of this coming to court and going from one foster home to another and things like that she's done real good and I wouldn't want anything to happen to upset her because she's waiting for anybody in our family to take her she's going to wait a long time long time. Well I'll tell you something father this woman who lives not too far away from her misses business. When I was running away I was going to be a mother's helper like live in. And so I called her and I did live. But I never had an experience and people in this world won't take you unless you had experience so I got this lady to save it. I had

worked for them for a year until I had gone to this woman I lied about my age. I said and I told her that I had no parents and that my dad had died three years ago and my mother died when I was young girl. And so they had taken me and everything was OK. Everything went smooth. And then I got my day off. And when I was on my day off they was looking through all my things and they found out that I was in the home of the good shepherds and that I was in a foster home that I was living with my girlfriend's parents and they found out all kinds of things. One of them to find these documents you sort of left clues for them to discover your history. Now I didn't but they were looking through my papers I didn't have any idea that they would go through my drawers and things like that. And so they called over one of my girlfriends and told them I was fired. So I didn't pay any attention I I was fired. I called Mrs. beers land and she told me that she would take me back. I thought she was wonderful because she was taking me

back. So the next day I clean the house and everything and I just got to thinking that it wasn't right for me to live here because I had lied to the woman and everything. You felt you should be punished. So I went to Mr. Desmond and I told him that it just wasn't the job for me to do. But I know if she had not found out that I was in all those institutions that it would have worked out but I don't know they just don't give you a chance to change. You would like to change to what you know so that I wouldn't have to run. I don't know I never Rhonda nothing good going from anything good to run to when I'm home and I never run into anything bad in all the times that I've run away I never got any trouble with boys or anything which I was weird when I ran away. I don't think they believe me because the other day and that was the first time in my life I was active I thought I was pregnant and I got mad and said you know if you don't believe me

you can get me checked by a doctor and she says Oh dear I'll take you by your word but which I don't think they do. So they'll keep me up here and I know I'm not even when I had that time at 2:30 in the morning I told them the real truth I did. I would've just told him that I was at one of my girlfriends that night and she would have believed me because well I have girlfriends. You might as well say all over the world. Whenever I went away that's who I have to turn to. I can't turn to an adult that would listen I hear I have to turn to children. Well you know girls my own age they have to hide me out and I don't know but I think I would die for either. I had to go to Muncie. I really do. I mean I'll tell you father the only place I really liked was good shepherds. The new home. I really like it there. I was very sassy let me tell you.

I really you know I set a record. I'm really ashamed of myself now. But that is one thing I have learned to control my sassiness since I got out of there with it I just kept my mouth shut and graduated from high school and maybe they would help me out. But when you were sassy What did you win. Nothing I guess it got me attention and I think that's all I ever wanted out there. I would do anything about it. I would sass I would say I wouldn't eat something like that. Sometimes it did me good. Sometimes it didn't. I don't know what I'm going to do but I just know that I don't want to go to Muncie. I want to go to more Danza. Well I'm too over there. I would like to go into the service because you're traveling and you get away from everybody. You feel it might bring you some security. Yeah well I mean nobody knows you they are less you tell them all about it well I don't tell people my business. I would have people who know me telling

all my history there. I want to spirit you had leaving personal papers around to be picked up and read that you'd open your eyes on that score. That's for sure. You would never run I guess if the lady hadn't confronted you with the facts and having a record and being in all these institutions and foster homes you know you know and then I had the previous jobs I worked at a hospital in Northside once. I just figured this way why should I get up every morning and work when I never got anything out of it which I didn't. So I walked out. What kind of showers you get there. Forty something every two weeks. And my father would take something that you know I had car fare. When everyone said that when you got a job that you could have nice clothes which I never had in my life and I've always wanted to have nice clothes and I figured oh when I start working I have nice clothes and I'll be normal like other girls have everything. And then I never got anything even when I worked. Well I got a purse out of my own pay and that was all I ever got. And then when I lived with

my girlfriend I worked as a waitress in Bob's drop in coffee shop and I had to quit there because there were too many bombs you know drunks and everything and it would come in and there are just too many smart guys and I just didn't like working there. I just quit. You haven't met your mother since the beginning what happened to her. Oh I she was in this state hospital when she died and. I've heard that my father was good to her. I don't know that that's what my relatives say he wasn't good to us and put us all in a home he was never really closed he was never he wasn't warm or protective as he never kissed you goodnight. I never remember him being like that. The warmth and affection are things you have to learn a person usually learns by observing. He rarely saw any of this in your home or any place else. Even the people that you live with didn't appear to be fed very affection with each other today.

You know I don't think so. I wish I was born in somebody else's family but I wouldn't want to know my sisters or brothers because I'm very fond of them. You feel they're fond of you too. Well I think my sister cares for me but I don't think my brothers do. But I like my little sister. I think more of my sister than of any other one. I knew you didn't do anything to deserve this kind of life. I don't think so. I know a lot of girls father that really do things you know bad and everything and and they have better things I ever had in my life. I don't know what for it's time to go back now. And now joining from Gadhafi to discuss the features of this child's world is as guest Professor Chester a jersey back of the sociology department at you can university here are Father Duffy And Professor Jack

it seems to me Mr. Jersey I can you can correct me on this that this is a fairly good example of a child who has what I have called institutional posture. When a person has his leg amputated below the knee very often if he doesn't move around get up on that thing and walk around. His leg will grow around the chair. And I think socially the same thing happens sometimes we find people who are in institutions and they dislike them they hate them they don't like the food they don't like the clothing they don't like anything. But when they get out they seem to do the very thing that puts my bike in again because they can't seem to operate independent of an institutional setting where they're very heavily controlled in everything that they do they have very limited choices and they hate it. And also they can't do without it he said. In addition to the business of institutional posture as you call it or Also it seems to me this is a good case fairly typifies. Female delinquents it's a runaway case and I think that on a previous program we

said that runaway was a fairly typical thing with girls they got just were runaways or there was a runaway Plus a sexual problem in fact I think it is this girl who actually was checked for pregnancy because she had been hitchhiking with a truck driver late at night also was delivered by a boy late at night. So I think that we have two aspects that maybe we can address possibly one of the of the characteristic of the runaway and maybe talk a bit about this and the other is this business of. What do institutions do to children. I think that in social work philosophy now more and more we tend to believe. That what the child needs is maybe a foster home situation or an adopted type of situation something that would have some characteristics of a natural home where institutions no matter how good they are

never can give the child the kinds of things that a natural can. For example in this case the youngster mentions. The excellent treatment that you got by the Good Shepherd nuns. But I'm sure that even there there are limitations as to what the nuns can do. They cannot ever make a home for these youngsters so I think we have an additional problem here I know I don't know whether you fully agree with this or not. This these additional aspects. Yes I think that this is an area where it's a minimum choice area where the child has been institutionalized in several institutions and also it seems to me she gives some evidences of in advance of being a social cripple. In the sense that I pointed out to her how it how does a person love learn to express warmth and love and affection when it's obvious Her father never gave it to her he's a cold disinterested fish it seems to me. And he's the kind of

a person that good could draw out from you all these aggressive things that we feel at times you'd like to shake him. The mother was very insignificant in the fact that the poor soul was institutionalized for an incurable disease and finally died. The brother was no support at all he didn't even want to see the sister you he says you have a father go to him and then her own little sister is in the same institution or one of the institutions where this girl was and she looks on her as poor as she needs me. Also she's apprehensive that this child is going to run away and yet that's exactly what she did. She sees herself I think as a person who isn't much good. And of course the tag of the sale price on her indicates that the product isn't very good either that's her estimate. She figures you do wrong but you kind of cover it and then having cover the wrong you did you know leave a calling card. You know you don't want to be found out but yet you do leave a calling card so that people can find out and of course this again gives

evidence of the fact that you're just no good. When they do discover the evidence that you have practically planted for them to find and then you say See there it is again it proves you are no good to anybody even myself. Also it seems to me that this case reveals a problem in therapy that this kind of youngster probably could never be fully treated or problem could be resolved sufficiently without having some kind of a group setting in which he could live. By this I mean that the resolution of this girl's problem maybe years ago would have been to bring the father into the situation that whenever we treat people we find that we can't treat them alone we have to treat them in a group situation in fact I think today there's a therapy that is coming into vogue which as a sociological background called men in your therapy you know. Changing the person's me and you're his

setting his environment is also important and therefore this refers to all the people in that environment. For example in Child Guidance I think that we find that it's not enough to console the child but often and his parents must be willing to come in on this thing I think that the part of the problem of this girl is that her part father doesn't want to come in on this. Maybe he has developed certain emotional barriers and he's rejected his family totally at this point. And it's not the fact that he doesn't have time or that he's lazy. These are probably quite secondary He doesn't want to be involved in it as such and this is a way of solving his problem. And I think in the case of Alba here the runaway part of a problem could have been solved years ago if the father became interested in her problem and I don't think he does have the interest and probably will never develop the interest and I don't know whether Alva will ever adjust unless some adult let's say becomes interested in alpha and all the

situations her constant complaint against adults are in a way. Complaints that no one is interested in her. Nobody cares. As such yes I think you're right that she does need an adult and it has to be a non-predatory one. Very often girls who are picked up for sex delinquency and this is about the among the top three incorrigibility running away and sex. Very often when a girl is picked up as a sex delinquent that they are hesitant to charge her with us because very often they know as well as we do that is not exactly a primary sex problem at all but it represents a little girl who isn't wanted at home she isn't liked. She's always corrected she's always creamed. She is given her weight too much. Very often there aren't the controls in the home that there should be and when they do operate they blast instead of correcting the child instead of bring her back to course what they do is they destroy the personality and very often this child escapes from the home. In spite of the fact that the restrictions are so great

and she escapes into the hand of some predatory adult he buys or drink he gives her a few cigarettes he takes her for a ride in the car very often he's an outcast he's broken up with his wife and this is all fine just maybe what she needs is maybe what she feeds on. But then comes the time when he starts to make demands of her and very often they are in one narrow area there in the sexual area. This child feels that she owes this to him as a compensation for giving him the things that he wanted and wasn't was being deprived of in other other facets of her social life. Home school and so forth. Yes there's a very dramatic a line on the tape where Alba says to the to you as the interviewer. That she can't turn to any adult who would listen she has to turn to children he she actually uses the word children and she says these are girls of my own age because she says that when she wants to run away well she has friends all over the world literally. She speaks in this tape and I think generally we've talked about this once

before. I think you mentioned that girls usually when they are runaways they run away to two things. One is that they run away to another girl who is their friend and who hide them out and it's amazing how this can happen. And the other is that they run off to some man usually a man maybe you takes advantage of them and you are their age and you know their situation and so on and. It's very unfortunate that all the adults that our album meets are people already who either are suspicious of her or know her history and utilize this history to advantage. And Alva doesn't have the kind of strength necessary to withstand this kind of stigma that has been now attached to her and she feels I guess very often and by running away she will run away from the stigma and the stigma simply doesn't go away if it did. She's tainted with it and this is one of the great problems with you know with any kind of such social pathology that we

still have a stigma attached to these kinds of things and despite propaganda about mental illness and other kinds of things. I think Alva shows that there's a kind of stigma attached very serious and very often these people do not have the strength to to overcome the stigma that's attached to their particular delinquency or disturbance or whatever it may be. Today's child follows a classical design of a child who has no personal or family roots. She suffers from what we would call institutional posture. She knows no family life of her own. She was in social institutions including family organized charity employers school and probably church. She exposes her safety into the hands of strangers and defies the laws of averages. So far with success she gives evidence of having a poor system of values. She suffers from considerable guilt feelings in social situations and makes mud balls for free distribution and dares other people to have a free throw at

her as a target. As we now come to the end of another episode in our series of exploring a child's world I would like to thank Professor Jersey for his interesting insights into the social behavior of children in trouble. Also our gratitude to the Honorable Bennett Rogers president judge of Allegheny County Juvenile Court and chief probation officer Boyd McDevitt and his staff for their cooperation and the use of the detention home facilities. You have been listening to exploring the child world of a program in which the child speaks from the French a stuffy chairman of the sociology department at UK university has conducted the interview with the child and to find the outlines of this world it in the discussion with his guest Professor Chester agers act. Also the Department of Sociology at UK. The.

Was the. This has been a production of the radio services at Duquesne University technical direction by Frederick Williams your announcer has been. Denied. This and again next week for another in the series exploring the childs world. And. The interview heard on this program was a recreation exploring the child's world is distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters. This is the end I ybe Radio Network.