The African revolution; 3

Are they ever going Revolution program number three let separated Gundry. Oh I'm sure I do and I know I should. OH MY GOD I LOVE YOU AND I DO LOVE YOU NO NOT son I'm sure. Even with the power and the passion of these African men the words tell a simple story. We have left our wives our children our villages we have come to work the white man's mines they sing. We came by train and plane to dig for diamonds and gold to make the white man the rich they chant. We cut the concrete wall. My back spent for beer and bread in our bed. We dig in the white man's mind. These are African miners most of them from Portuguese East Africa come to work the rich mines of South Africa. Some 48 of them are living in a concrete barracks room gathered around to sing me their story. Forty eight men at 90 cents a day each singing in South Africa in a passionate cry when an attempt is being made to

ignore one of the most powerful forces of the mid 20th century. The African revolution was. Robbed. Oh yeah the African revolution. A sound odyssey to a continent in turmoil. A six part study of Africa some focus on Howrah based on a 15 country tour with a tape recorder by broadcaster Harry russkie. This Third Programme in the series a programme titled The separated country takes a searching look at apartheid and its effect on the lives and outlooks of individuals belonging to the different racial groups in South Africa. South Africa is a tragedy. It's a tragic situation precisely because it's impossible to see any way out of it except by violence. I say that with great regret and I must say that I think that nearly all my friends would agree with me that such is the equation of force there. Such as if such were the policies of the present South African government

and so tightly have they screwed the screws of repression that it's extremely difficult to see how a peaceful solution can be found. One must hope that it can be found but it seems very very unlikely. And one is in the presence almost of a Greek tragedy. These are the words of African expert Basil Davidson. This is South Africa. By far the most beautiful the wealthiest the most modern The most tragic country on the continent of Africa. It is a land of incredible beauty. It's magnificent hock around the trees seem to draw in the light of the sun itself as they glow like giant lilac torches. The city of Johannesburg is a power of skyscrapers like New York or Montreal. Cape Town is carved from the cliffs of rock that sit beyond Table Mountain on the edge of the sea. The soil is rich and black like the Niagara Peninsula or the Okanogan Valley and the wealth below the surface is a harvest of the richest metals known to man. But it is it's

15 and three quarter million population that contains the heart of the tragedy. There are 10 and three quarter million blacks one and a half million colored people and half a million Indians all governed and classified by three million whites half the whites on the entire continent. Three million whites obstinately arguing that white is white and all else is black and never the twain shall meet. The whites fear the blacks and the blacks spill bitterness toward the whites. It is a truth obvious to the observer that governs all aspects of life. This Observer found difficulty in completely documenting the South African story because in my tour no leading government official of the Nationalist Party would grant me an interview. However I will attempt in the course of this hour to include the nationalist line as well as those of the opposing leaders who are most anxious to be heard. The Dutch arrived there three hundred years

ago and have no intention of leaving ever. They have no where to go in fact they have cultivated their own language Afrikaans spoken nowhere else and which tends to isolate them along with the natural boundaries of geography. They are far away from the rest of the world in thought and distance and their immense wealth helps them maintain a feeling of comfortable isolation of separateness. The black leaders in South Africa are strong in their condemnation of the Nationalist government. Here is Chief Albert le throughly winner of the Nobel Prize for Peace that it had met bodies of people who had tried to live on conduct all that which is approved by the whole world. And that being a very small country I must admit. But unfortunately I'm fortunate in that madness. They're going to run the country. Other black South Africans have decided to leave the country to fight their battle for equality

from the outside this is the sums they Maki a leader of the South African United Front who escaped from his country when life there for the nonwhite in particularly the African is a perpetual talk in South Africa. As people may be aware there are all sorts of laws that have made it firstly to start with communication between black and white between impossible and South Africa to the extend that did it on laws that make it illegal to have any white African friends in the country. And politically the life of the African is absolutely nonexistent. He's not allowed to partake in any of the policy making bodies of the country he's not represented at this stage in the central government and he's eventually treated as a as a stranger in South Africa and in the words of the South African government his importance is no more in South Africa in the in the South African context is not my much more important than our horses and oxen and these are the words of the present prime minister of South Africa. He said that the African and South Africa

should be made to understand that his only importance is to the extent that he carries out menial tasks that will be expected from day to day by white South Africa. So this is the life of the African. He is destined by the present government to be a servant for all times to eventually be a slave for all time. The policy of the present government in fact the policy of every government ever to hold power in South Africa is one of racial division. But since the nationalists came to power in 1948 it has intensified and it has been given a name. All the world knows apart hate what it means and how it got to its present state and how it affects people in South Africa are questions I asked everywhere. This is Judge H A Fagan a one time confidant to Gen. Smuts once minister mate of affairs and retired chief justice of the country a distinguished looking man slightly hard of hearing hospitable

and slightly at odds with the ruling Nationalist Party. I asked myself as an Afrikaner which I am when I come came from I think I was speaking home my own home is not because speaking home US president how did we get into what I had a god is this. Wrong direction and particularly Did I ask myself that because I'm quite convinced that it is not born out of any desire to oppress the nonwhite people or to be harsh towards them. I'm quite positive that the Afrikaans like all are like other sections of the white population here. I want to do what is just and fair towards the non-Europeans And so I put to the question how did we get into what I regard God as our own policy and one which is regarded by the world as oppressive and to my mind it arose out of the attempt to

carry out what is really an impossible policy when the non-whites began showing all of the world that they wanted political rights and they became very vociferously about that. We naturally became very frightened here because as whites in South Africa we are in the minority. And particularly we as Afrikaans speaking people have a strong feeling of nationhood and this is the only part of the world in which we can have a home a dog and you'll get very frightened when you find that not only have you share your home with other people entirely different from yourself but that those people actually threaten to take control of your home. And so one can very well understand that there was a very strong emotional reaction in South Africa to this sudden claim made by non European peoples and particularly made by the

Africans. And then the ideas which got hold of people's imagination was why can't we separate a country give them their portion and we take out. Now that idea is such an attractive one that I can well understand that up to the present it's been getting the voting public was it the voting public being of course the whites who are the only ones here to have any effect of voting. The My only difficulty was it that a decisive difficult is it to my mind it is strictly impossible. Implementation of the nationalists for their part are plunging ahead probably with their concept of apartheid to create separate states within South Africa for what they call the Bantu the Africans more than 80 percent of the total population would be placed in an area of less than 20 percent of the land mass of South Africa.

The next man I spoke to was a bright young man a magazine editor and African. He asked that I not uses name and I asked him how does apartheid affect your life. First and foremost it means exclusion. From normal life. But you know it means you've got to lead any lead in life. Most of your time you know I'm something of a criminal even though you mean tend not to be a criminal you mean merely living living itself. They basically. Becomes outlawed. Secondly and means very limited. When you want to be a doctor you know from the beginning. That you will not and as much as a white doctor will and although you were going to say more. And do the same way.

That. You know there are laws like Job reservations those jobs that are considered lucrative better paying more comfortable and generally desired by the majority of the people. Are reserved for white people. By legislation not all of them but very many of them. Second thing. Oh so that. Means your freedom of movement is gone. Actually as an African. If you are white you can walk around the city like John is back anytime anywhere without having to produce any papers. Which represent authority to do that. African You have to be off base states by 11:00. If you're African. You must live in a prescribed area. Of Johnny speck. If you're an African You cannot look for work in a city 25 miles away from John especially if you are considered by. The documents you carry and John is very

African. As a result of these years of living under the system. What is your attitude toward a white person to hate or to feel bitter about it. There are moments but equally lately when I've felt extremely bitter about white people as a group. I have had even INSIDE AFRICA. For this must be said it is still possible to find pockets of normal life. I've had genuine friendships and I still have with white people individuals. So for me it is not possible to see them only as a group. I am for ever with. Friends of mine. I am extremely funda and not possible for me to have a blanket or teaching tool at some point it is against the law for whites to be in the African townships where the Africans live without a permit it is against the law for any romance between the white and the black. But

somehow as one author says a lot of hand-holding has taken place because in South Africa there are a million and a half people who are neither white or black. They have resulted from cross breeding between whites blacks and Asians. They are called colored because many are in the Cape province they are called the Cape colored until not long ago their position was slightly more privileged than the African They had a boat and were able to live in comfortable quarters. But the government's pigment consciousness has now removed the vote and put the colored in more or less the same class as the African. Since the colored person had reasoned he was somewhat higher in the social scale this regulation has been a bitter one to swallow. And despite the fact his thinking in the past has been along which might call European lines he has found himself now united with the African in the common cause against color prejudice. I follow the leader of the South African colored people's congress Barnie decide I'm managing

a rundown movie house in the poor part of Cape Town. He has recently been banned from attending political meetings of his or any other group. I asked him to explain what a part hate means to colored people. And as he spoke I couldn't help thinking that in the streets of London or Rome to run over Chicago he would easily pass for a Greek or a dark skin the time a pothead in my opinion it is nothing but a form of barbarism a fitted by so-called civilized people on a focus defenseless voiceless people we have no votes. We are continually humiliated. We have no decent jobs. We live in tenements and when we decide to get out of tenements to build up housing schemes which look like on we can't. We are

segregated in buses and trains. We stand in different queues to buy postage stamps. We ballin from white theaters. We cannot see some pictures which are for which are restricted. Incidentally this is very interesting a movie which is bound to a white kid of 16 is completely banned to a nonwhite which of course places the average intelligence of nonwhite people of the age of 16 irrespective of how old they are or what qualifications they have. This whole attitude is an attitude of arrogance a type of arrogance that we saw in Nazi Germany when Hitler indiscriminantly massacred the Jewish people. The point is what are we going to do. And how we trying to. Rearrange things in this country. First we categorically state as I'm

saying to you now that we are not and we never have been. Anti-white in our attitude because we're not dealing with a foreign power that is keeping down the vast majority of the people of this country. We are dealing with people who've come to South Africa over the past three hundred years. We've come to South Africa from Europe. And made this their home. And accordingly we must treat them as fellow said Africans despite the fact that they don't dissipate because any movement or any political action that is based on the fact that you're going to throw people into the sea because they white letter inevitably fail as a budget will fail because they know they want to keep the black people down to only don't make a right and all principals go for black and white. Cape Town is the center of colored life and urban a city up the coast on the Indian Ocean is where half a million people of Indian and Pakistani extraction make their

headquarters. It was there in 1894 that the late Mahatma Gandhi founded the South African Indian congress and evolved his practice of passive resistance that was later to lead to Indian independence. His successor today is a white haired Indian doctor not car while a full room of patients waited indium colored in black in a less desirable neighborhood. He told me of the problem of the Indian in South Africa. But first he disabled his telephone lets it be used as a police planted microphone and as you know we were brought here and it is a good effect we said only to be said to be the first Indian Landing in South Africa just a few months back. And we claim not to. We don't claim as Indians we claim to be South Africans. So how do they get racial laws and the policies of this government affect the Asian here an African person of Asian extraction.

There's a node to put in for all to see as part of the government of South Africa's going stand in the relation to the Indians in this country. They used to restrict our movements and activities and economic opportunities. As they are doing for the African people look on sand so harsh has been the barrier between all non-whites black brown or beige and the whites that there is a great ignorance about the abilities of the non-whites. Until recently the South African little for instance about musical skills of the African people. This is Harry Blum the white author of King Kong the first South African musical. We find a remarkably high standard of a just a talented. And a chest day just waiting to be taken out in a way it's very exciting putting on the shows. Because we're dealing with absolutely brand new material. And we really have to look. Look at

rock bottom. Sources for things for instance in King Kong we took mines we took good ounces of the gold mines from the gold mines and put them into the shell. We spent our time with fisherman getting their hearing them seeing hearing them talk. Fishermen are already the cowboys of the sea now and they have much the same sort of sentiment and sentimentality and getting the feel of them and really getting back very often to grant to basic roots of things that have the word of the name for this new player putting on his coat. Yes. How about the practical problems of putting on a show of this kind with the pass laws and so on how do these performers come and go as well. Don't affect us down here in Cape Town it was it was a problem in Johannesburg. Now there are numerous problems. One is possible as you mention the other is the question of theaters very very difficult to find theaters where they can be mixed audiences or even many theaters don't even allow non-whites on the stage. That's a tremendous problem. We will not play

anywhere where they have to be segregated and that enormously limits ensures that for all that we manage to get through and put on shows which are very exciting and which create I think just about the most attention there is in theater this is I think undoubtedly the the real live sex the real the real live part of the theater world in South Africa these indigenous shows. Here is a basic and from to be concerned with looks. A freak.

There is a range folks whose class you float. Let's be free to greet the jerk. So remember when. No one can prove it. This is a Modern Nursery Rhyme written by a white man a song of social protests sung by a colored man in a sense a daring breakthrough on the South

African stage from Harry Bloom's new show Paul EOS public protest is not accepted kindly by the Nationalist government. The music of the people of South Africa has been there a long time. Not too often heard by the white man except in its most primitive indigenous form. The African has a style of his own. And his should be known in the back alleys of his shanty towns and what the white man has called the Bantu Township. He has evolved songs that are partly Blue Pike the Jazz partly just the musical release from the agony of everyday life. OK good bye to customs and customs

to the DVLA feeds. Perhaps no sound means South Africa more to the North American on the horse. Shrill call of the penny whistle. The black and brown mama South Africa has searched for his inspiration in the folk

heroes of the American Negro. He has listened to the music of the great American entertainers copied his style and he found great release in the spiritual in music of praise he has turned his misery into a happy song I. Always said the. Devil must be told will. Be dead. In South Africa except in isolated cases it is rare when men of different color sing together. It is even rare they can pray together. The educated

African may find it difficult to follow the logic of the Dutch Reformed Church which carries a part hate into the church. But somehow the Christian teachings have left their profound effects on his ability to forgive his rulers. This is besoms a Mackie whose father is a minister have been a great faith and man. I feel that the. For instance with the South African government are doing. It is merely a chapter in the history of man. I do not regard myself as as an atheist or someone that does not believe but I've had a great deal of doubts for instance. Where the South African government used the same bible that I'm supposed to believe to justify the policies of the South African government believe that on a Christian mission of oppressing me they claim that they're the chosen race of God and he was chapters in the Bible one of them being the sons of him shall be he was of wood and drawers of water they say that the

African people. So that I've come to the conclusion the doctor fulfilled and I don't pray obviously can I pray the same God. I went to the dominant church in the country to the Dutch Reformed Church for some answers. I found that the church itself is divided on the question of how strong should be its attitude toward separateness. The most conservative of the three branches at that time in fact was trying one of its ministers as a heretic to prove that he defied scripture and advocating that men be allowed to pray together regardless of color. The Rev. long long pleasant clergyman acts for the main branch of the church in Cape Town in providing information he feels his church has been unfairly maligned. If we had accused of a racial hatred and of giving our blessing to a policy of oppression to keep the non-whites in a permanent the inferior position we are even supposed to believe in the perpetual case of ham on all the non-whites. Now if these accusations were true how would you account for the

mission work of ascension mall in all parts of Africa for all know that Nigeria to the southern tip of the continent. How would you explain the large numbers of hospitals schools and homes for the deaf and blind printing lawns. More than a thousand missionary work is all over Africa. And to pick up a contribution of well over six dollars but church member. We very humbly confess that many of our members are not above racial prejudice. And during the time of undress recently we again made a very urgent appeal to our members to treat all non-whites with human dignity respect and justice. Well if this is all true sir then why is it that you do have separate churches for whites and non-whites. That actual church was originally an interracial church but because they don't whites found it extremely difficult to follow the sevens separate services. We had a simplified language was used to start it. The experiment was a

success and gradually out of this policy of separate churches for the various ethnic groups evolved. But when I think of my own church the church I belong to the congregation I belong to the Mother Church out in Cape Town. We have ever so many cases where we invite to the non-Whites to attend our church although I do admit there may be places in the rural areas especially where this would be frowned on. Besides the vast number of restrictions imposed on the nonwhite man there are certain limitations on the white man who does not agree with the government. One of the most liberal news men of the country and one of the government's most serious critics Stanley Hayes columnist of The Sunday Times said to lead is a difference between the. The white section of the old white section the about of liberty they are allowed by the government the whites are certainly allowed a lot more liberty that the don't whites.

But I suppose the taste of a police state is to what extent the police interfere with the normal activities and liberties of the citizen. And there is a considerable amount of the seed to fields in South Africa. There is hardly a BT of any political body left politically left of the made opposition party the United Party is hardly a BT of any of these bodies that is not attended by the police who arrive either with short had writers all with tape recorders. There are allegations of telephone tapping. And the police generally Harry Harris nonwhite leaders of nonwhite movements and the Liberal ad lift we get white political organizations. All this to me.

Well is the tendency toward more of this kind of rule here or is it becoming liberalize someone new. It's getting worse as a matter of fact particularly in the last few months. The duly appointed minister of justice Mr. Foster has apparently given instructions for the police to be more vigilant and to be Hashimi the D-League says with the Government's political opponents. Recently the police have developed a technique of breaking prosecutions against the Government's political opponents. Even on the flimsiest pretexts the. Said to Dodd white leaders and white leaders to the judges beg have be brought before court on charges which have not stood up to scrutiny and which have afterwards

collapsed. But these charges have involved the leaders in considerable expense embarrassment and even hardship. And this seems to be the government's technique. Even if these prosecutions do not succeed it nevertheless institutes them. One of those who disagrees with Ace about the extent of the restrictions is in fact his boss Joe McGinniss editor of The Sunday Times. I believe that there is not any other democratic country in the world where the opposition to the government is more frankly I might say even more violently outspoken than it is in South Africa. The papers the newspapers the press the politicians in opposition say quite openly and frankly what they think of the government and they're allowed to do so without let or hindrance. And I say that from my own experience as one who has constantly differed from the government and constantly

criticized and attacked its policies and that has been committed and in fact is permitted and will continue to be emitted a spot in the foreseeable future. There is a surprising amount of freedom in the press of South Africa and the English speaking papers daily accuse the government of wrongdoings. However in the rich industrial country there is no television of any kind because the government feels too many syndicated English speaking programs would damage their intense Afrikaner culture. The radio is completely run and controlled by the government. Sometimes the broadcasts are heavily loaded against African leaders. One day in my hotel room I recorded a portion of an attack on Julius Newberry the moderate African leader of Cancun he hadn't got to the door to be counted on Independence Day. He had a perfect example of it endeavored to impress it through it and it involved but it was upbeat and important as an African leader.

There is however another side to the characters which is comical and one which if I have to move to the new leader of technique at the same meeting of the elders he stated that a few people are likely to apply for Tanganika citizenship saying and I quote will be nine million African would be wise to be used to foreigners who might qualify for citizenship. We should instead sympathize with them and not threaten to intreat or oppress these creatures of God for no reason. We must never tire of EMS for anything bad we suffered under them in the past. It was obviously speaking with his tongue in his cheek and was careful to say that no action would be taken against the 3000 white dragon ego. He obviously made this statement with some reservation because a few minutes later in the same speech he continued in the past we have been weak. But on the eve of Independence Day we are going to become strong. That they are about to be in the country it is going to be transferred to us opted into

the night and weekend if we wish. Do whatever we please because that is nobody to stop us we going to want to fight an urge to pack up and go away immediately that we can better give them as much as we like. Even in the face of protests from all over the world as an afterthought he asked the president if they don't he was right. It it up is that you really have to read a bit carried away by his own thoughts and only later realise that he should not get people before tanking to get independence. The bequest censorship and control are in the hands of the Nationalist Party the party in power. It's been said by some observers that when the nationalists won their first election in 1948 the Afrikaners finally won the Boer War. There is a strong division in the country between the Afrikaans speaking and the English speaking South African. Well then what happened that made this restrictive and widely criticize government gain and hold power. This is the theory of editor Joe mirthless.

It came about I suppose because of a fear of the on the part of the nationalist Afrikaner that South Africa might go to liberal and General Smuts had a left tenantless to John H Huffman a man whose name is revered as South Africa as being a great liberal and in the election of 1948 the liberalism of Mr Hough map was something which I believe frightened the Afrikaners in South Africa. Many of them who had previously supported General Smuts switched to the Nationalist Party. But even then the accession to power of the Nationalists was in its sense in a sense of freak and a fluke because they polled in fact a minority of the popular vote although as a result of the delimitation in the country they obtained a majority of seats.

What is the ratio of English speaking background people to Afrikaner here. I think the ratio is approximately 60 to 40 60 percent Afrikaners to 40 percent English. And how is the parliament divided now. How many seats to the nationalist and so on. The parliament consists of one hundred fifty six seats altogether out of the hundred fifty six. The Nationalists have one hundred and five. The United Party has 49. The National Union Party has one and the Progressive Party has one. Most of us like many moderates in South Africa is a member of the United Party the party of the late General Smuts. There is a feeling that it is losing its power because it is just the pale shadow of the extreme nationalist party. This is refuted by Mr Sharpe the general secretary of the united party. I think the first of all that the the argument which is often used in this country

and out of it that the United Party is a pale shadow of the Nationalist Party is an. Aggressive a simplification. There's no question about it. Observers say that the coming party is one backed by industrialist millionaire Harry Oppenheimer. The progressives which managed to get only one seat in last year's election that progressive is a dynamic young woman. Helen Suzman the wife of a well-to-do doctor she is the only member of parliament who represents any kind of radical reform. In some ways she represents a rather small and economically powerful Jewish minority in South Africa. She was born as most of them were in South Africa. I asked her what she thought she can do as the sole member of a liberal reform group. Well I certainly wouldn't be able to change policy in South Africa as the any member of the Progressive Party sitting in parliament but Parliament is a very important forum and by voicing the views not any of my own constituents but also of the

sixty nine thousand other people who voted for the Progressive Party policy which as you know is one based on the rejection of racial discrimination and also by speaking on behalf of the 11 million non-whites in South Africa. I hope by using the parliamentary forum to be able to influence public opinion well in a continent that has seen some 25 odd nations become independent in the last two years or so. Can a nation that has this policy exist side by side in the same continent without major frictions. Well I think the major frictions will probably develop but I think you must realize that South Africa is in a very different position from the rest of the independent countries on the African continent and the differences are firstly that this is a large industrial economy the country is highly developed. It has been industrialized really since. Well I suppose really one

might say since the mineral discoveries around about the 1860s of of last century diamonds followed by gold followed by secondary industry which developed largely as a result of the two world wars. That's the first difference there is no other large industrial country of this magnitude in the rest of Africa. The second difference of course is that we have a very large sister older white population. The three and a half million whites who live in South Africa are here to stay. Most of them there are people leaving this country of course. But Dan large the vast majority of people are here to stay and that is different from the rest of Africa where I was in the Rue de JWs. There is not a large settled white population. And so the situation really is not quite comparable South Africa can exist in a sort of steady isolation for quite a long time. It is gold that makes it possible. Golden diamonds that makes it possible for South Africa to remain in spiritual isolation from the rest of the world from the rest of the

African revolution. Most of the wealth is in the hands of the anger speaking minority group in South Africa. One of the leading mining men is a former Canadian Mr. Calvin stone the claim born in St. John New Brunswick a graduate of McGill University. He came to South Africa 50 years ago. Among other things he is deputy chairman of the General Mining and Finance Corporation. I talk with him in a model building far more solid looking than anything you would find along Wall Street or bay or St. James. A helpful man he spoke quietly and firmly as we talked of go. In fact. I asked him if it were true that Johannesburg is built on gold. I think that is correct yes. How much of the world's gold does come from South Africa. Over 60 percent. What percentage of your labor would be black and what percentage of it would be white. Well the mines to day gold mines and uranium mines is associated with it out of the

employing just under 400000. Of which Ninety eight percent at least are migrant labor coming from all parts of Africa both within the union and outside and the white population is about 45000 South African gold mining industry never would have to vote had it not been for the facilities that were available in Africa for the employment of this native labor which is a low wage earning labor but at the same time when it was first employed was a very inefficient and low standard of labor. There is a conception and I think it exists in your country that this labor is forced to work. There is no compulsion whatever. It's all voluntary labor.

But we have to have organizations to arrange for them to come and go. You must realize that in employing 400000 natives here we have a complete turn over every 12 months showing how paltry this system is. They come and go and we discharge 400000 natives of Rio. Do you want to know why the law enacted the manager wanted it. What do. These are the men in one of Mr McLean's minus 48 men in the compound I mean but crowded room forty eight bunks with blankets no mattresses cutouts of the Buddhist monks bicycles their Sunday best clothing hanging from the rafters 48 men of ninety cents a day singing in a gold mine. They're healthy muscular smiling members 48 of the 400000 who migrate to the mines then go home to their families and perhaps return again yet not look at me I

did not get any good now it was. Like oh my god I mean I went down into the mine walked a mile crouching part of the way crawling the rest and watched the men work soaked from the humidity and dampness we started up to the surface. We proceeded up out of this mine about a thousand feet from the surface of Africa. This is what is important to South Africa. It's not the surface above. It's the rich rock below. And now finally we're stopped and out in the sunlight again.

Then we walked around the compound. They look much like prisoner of war camps of wartime years but with no barbed wire. They are efficient human factories streamlined to keep labor healthy and able to work. We walk through a dining area where the miners were eating. They don't like dining rooms and I spoke through an interpreter to one miner about himself. They're not paid media will forgive you because you're missing for what happened that latch I had a pie. What does he say exactly. Well actually he was telling me that he has lived on seven mines in the mining industry in the West and some on the central Rand others on the East Rand and his wit for different contracts at different periods Yeah. On this particular mine if you ask him how big a family he has and how often he sees them. God is in for one it is a question for.

As he said it as a payday of this period before he he's a married man with a wife and has four children and he sees them regularly at the end of each contract which is approximately 12 to 13 months he goes home. How old is he. And yeah they are coming up on national non-GAAP how he asked that I know because you know he's not sure of his age but looking at him I would say he is a man of about forty two years of age. Judging from my experience I ask him if he knows who the prime minister of the country is. I ask him if he has ever heard of him. She fled to Lee here in South Africa. If he has ever heard that name. When I was go to a mass he has never. Told me I was very good looking like a bird. There might have been on

tonight. He had the line and I am. Not here to learn. Not. Only the men began to sing as I talk finished and instrument is a valuable way of passing the hours while waiting for the shift to change the nights the past in the 12 months to go and you return home to your family. As I left the mine compound outside the white workers were playing cricket and having tea I wanted to make one last important stop in South Africa to see one of the men the miner had not heard of but the world was coming to know Chief Albert literally. The other man the miner about heard of Prime Minister for Gort had already indicated he had no time to see me. The government said I could not visit literally but I made plans to meet him in secret at the office of a friend in the town of staggered down along the coast of the Indian Ocean. We met in a modest back office. The chief sat down beside me a handsome man with a buddha like face. I wanted to know about the things I had seen and

heard in his troubled land. I wanted to know about him. Lads I have in MA are less interested in relationship work and that was particularly most of before I took the negative part and put it to get away as a teacher I had and also his chief. I was associated and am still associated with some organizations such as East of race relations and similar interracial organizations because I do believe that those organizations have a place they have a place an image a school but they can never cause take the place of political organizations. But in working for the easing of tensions between races they are important. Is that better really if you can gain your freedom without shed of blood. And create a healthy atmosphere after

freedom without having nasty scars to refer to afterwards. So I think it's better. And so one must continue to strive. For better relationships that way. SCHIEFFER Do you think that you are going to be able to contain the wrath of the people here however with your policy of nonviolence. One wonders that after the years of suppression the years of subjugation that perhaps the situation seems to be boiling up a little. Well one can only say that we live in hope and we shall continue to work along what regard is that I'd pass. It is true people are passing through frustration and with the government parading force it is making it extremely difficult for us you know to come with a message of

and peace at least nonviolence. So for the people of us that before I came here I spoke to many African leaders including people like you VERY of Tang and Yuka. And he described the leaders of the South African government as Mad Men. How would you describe the leaders of the South African government. Well sadly I think that I would. And Doss the sentiments expressed by Mr. yet at the Met Police people who tried to run counter to all that which is approved by the whole world. And that being a very small country must be met man. But unfortunately unfortunately in their madness they are going to ruin the country. It's unfortunate. Why do you think it is that in this last election they continue to hold such a large majority in fact increased almost relation is that why South

Africa of course is white supremacy and anybody coming along and promising the whites that he'll maintain that white supremacy. He would have the backing not ready of a large number of whites do feel that the comments are being made all the outside have had any profound influence on the people of this country. No I think comments should be made constantly. I think the world should never stop. Censuring South Africa. But I should say that that and any visible signs of repentance. Rather I may be correct to say that the present moment so far as the whited out it is concerned it any censure. Tends to make them come together. Here is call of unity unity. We are being threatened and some respond to that call.

This is the only way in which you can explain really even the large majorities which they cut which the Nationalist Party caught at elections. Was this drumming on the black menace internally and from the outside as being a danger to the whites and they feel that well here is a man who is running us and is able to protect us from this menace was the wrong assessment. But the world must continue to spin just off as they become more unified however wise that the nonwhite forces are not unified in this country. I would say that from the political and the political groups the Afghan National Congress before it was banned. And is under eyes where making fair progress in organizing people. No you must remember that we were going to great difficulties our

movements are greatly limited. We cannot hold meetings in reservations even in towns you must get permission of the local authorities and these local local authorities are white but under those conditions Nevertheless we are able as especially in urban areas to get to the people in the rural areas it is just difficult you cannot hold a meeting in a rural area without the permission of the native chief of the African chiefs who in turn must be given permission by a local Native Commissioner. And I think in the circumstances we're not really doing as bad as people would suggest. Do you personally feel bitterness towards the white man as a result of the rule here over the years. What really passed and then the I haven't the slightest bitterness on the white man. I feel he's on the wrong path. And I say that he's a victim of human passions human weaknesses.

He must repent he needs to repent of his ways. But I have no bitterness itself. And is it your intention sir to stay here always that this is your country and you continue to state my intention to stay in my country and fight it out. Now I know we were not a prophet but if you were to prophesy when things will change here this apartheid policy. When would you say. Yes they did for me. I really hesitate to put that time said you learn the liberation movement you can have a Ted. All I can say is that we will continue to work hard to see that comes about. But I think that it is the pressmen who determines the pace right until present. As soon as we have reached the air is the percentage of innovation. I think that white South Africa will have to come to a point when he negotiates with us.

The View had a message to deliver directly to the people. Kemah What would you say. I would say that the people of Canada must wear caught in whatever way they can do it to see that these precious gift democracy becomes a position of all people in the world. As I left the secret place where we talked I couldn't help thinking the words of Alan Peyton's poem of praise about with Julie and the men who had banished him Payton wrote you their look throughly. They thought you were chained. Now it is they discover that they are in prison but you are free. The question that plagues the visitor to South Africa is how long can this jail hold before a major break. Even though it is a kind of jail where the prisoner and the keeper are both in a sense behind bars neither is free or cheap with the really won his Nobel Prize for preaching nonviolence. Others are not so patient. All right good.

Oh my god I didn't do my thing and I don't read much on the show but cry of the beloved country continue. There seems no end in sight to the tragedy being played out in this rich and beautiful but melancholy lamb. Should the government continue to pursue its present policy the consequences seem inevitable as inevitable as the climax of a tragedy. This to a part of the African revolution. My generation am I going to go I'm going around the globe. Yeah I did. Yeah well I know what it was the separated guns on program number three and I six cried Sarah is on the African revolution. The series was prepared by broadcaster Harry rescue after a tour with tape recorder of 15 an African Gunner is a solvable Sahara. The African revolution

was produced in Toronto by BERNARD MURPHY. Oh yeah it was shit and there was a moment that I was sure that I was I thought I was dead and she was and she was here you are.