A Federal Case; 21

This is a federal case a weekly show that takes up an issue of government and takes a good look in Washington D.C. I am an Zille producer for the national educational radio network. More people become hip to that. The government is not a government for the people as opposed to be a government what have people been. People will actually pick up on it no overthrow. OK there's a Genuine Black Panther talking about revolution. And this week we're going to make a federal case out of the Black Panther Party. Now it may seem to you that the Panthers are getting a lot of publicity and this show is just going to be another plug for the panther talks about revolution and the reporter says wow hey this is what's happening folks. Well I'm not going to say that and I haven't interviewed the usual black panther leaders. You're going to hear from two of the rank and file two brothers off the street. Thomas Saunders and William Brown they're running an information center for the panther party in Philadelphia. These guys have never

had any publicity before. They haven't been in anybody's public eye. And I thought their version of the Black Panther Party might be more grassroots and less packaged for public consumption. You're going to find out if that's right on this show this time it's really the federal government has been making the case out of the Black Panthers FBI director J Edgar Hoover declared several months ago that he considered this party a grave threat to our national security. The Justice Department announced recently that it was subpoenaing all newsman's records and film of the Panthers later after an outcry from reporters. The subpoenas were withdrawn at least until the Justice Department could make its demands more specific. Now that's not all. Black Panther incidents have been filling up newspapers even making the front pages for several months. Charges of police brutality raids on Black Panther headquarters killings charity affairs to raise bail money for Black Panthers in jail. So this is a program to find out about this

attention you're also going to get a sense of just how deep this talk of revolution goes and why some black Americans want to belong to the Panthers. These two pandas are going to cover a lot of ground. The one who does most of the talking is brown Saunders joins in once in a while you might want to know the both of these Panthers have only belong to the party for six months. Here's William Brown talking about the history of the Black Panther Party. We're. Like half a cry you still didn't start in 1956 at Pope a great day. Believe it from the question in the community you would be knew long ago. Obviously you know both both political parties man. Started the Black Panther Party as to our reactive police bounce don't bounce in the black community of brutalisation on black people. They organized the bubble don't let them know about their constitutional rights and the

rights that they had on Second Amendment on themselves. But I was at the organ on the organ at the party force for Black Panther Party for Self-Defense. From there he took it and they went to the street. When they went into the street. Usually when they would see acts of police brutality going down in the community or somebody being you know actually a riot by the police they would move in and own advise the person who was being aware of their rights and you know and in the Constitution. Most of the time on one level they busted on the street. It would have to bail them out. They will gain a lot of troops like this. Black Panther Party and their own police brutality in a murder of black people just one of the aspects as you know and I struggle with that. It was more than just now so we are seeing that it was a lot more than just please would be so we summed up he would be Newton and Bobby Seale

actually went to the black community see and they asked the people just what they wanted and what they needed and the people gave no template platform for when with the Black Panther Party on lays down the day as a platform platform and program of the party which is what we are struggling for power to determine our own destiny on full employment for our people and to the valley by the Catholics in our community. Are black men to exam for military service education decent education and land being housing educated guesses and peace is what we really struggle for as right as human being in this country. Actually we realize that it's not a racial struggle that our struggle is for the class struggle that different groups are broken up into different ethnic groups you see their struggle against each other. We've got to just look at the ringleader of the whole thing here which is the power structure consists of

about two hundred seventy five people which families I mean United States all around rich white rich white families that control of the actual resources natural resources the power in this country to control everything. That's why this country is concerned. And in some parts of the country they move to control you know when they do control these things and see that we don't look at it you know they would like for us to look at it as a racist problem as black and white you know and let us go here and struggle you know get white against black. But that's not what it's all about because we realize that. Racism is perpetrated by the power structure. You know they use racism to keep the people divided you know in the news media and so forth. Actually the people are the powers dirty themselves the pigs of the power structure of races they have always wage wars of. People of

color. How do you get in their way. Oh. They're just like any of them black. They're checking out the scene with reality seeing that the new template platform program of the party and you know. Checking out some of the revolutionary programs that they have socialistic programs I see that what they were doing would definitely moving in the correct direction for getting liberation for black people in this country. What happened to. My. Well I guess a data I've seen a lot. I witness a lot of objects with the body you know just what we struggle for why wouldn't the. Question of black people from day to day life. I witness on when we go to the breakfast programs of three hungry children and we realize that the government won't get up and give us no food and we also realize that when we see numbers like jewels of books who was killed in the summertime by a

racist pig we'll add that in police brutality in the black community. This is we see it going down you know this is what I witness you know this is what I see from day to day. Yet I said a man about liberation I mean do you feel more liberated you feel like there's a chance for more liberation to join the fight. Sure we are mean we know that people once the people become hip to the power structure. They realize that with the whole how the whole machinery should set up saying how did you get into this. First of all came into the party little sort of opportunism. I was an individual and as far as going to the party I had laid on I learned to understand I learned to love the party I loved my work and as far as being an opportunist individual learning made on that these were corrosive to doing but hardly revolutionary parties had to deal with these petty bullies by the tendency and they don't want to learn

to understand the goals of the party in power is the goal. I reckon I'd struggle as a class struggle really if they are bad for saying that he considers the Black Panther Party one of the biggest threats to the United States you know what I think many people would turn to when they see when you think about this they let a small minority who make up a small minority of revolutionaries but these people don't understand that we say the people make the revolution which we are depending on the people to deal with this oppressive system and whoever may have looking in the future in a long line of that kind of party is the greatest that that's purely man because you stand the people make the revolution the youth make the revolution. So that's that's what it's all about. I think. The main thing is that we're not a threat to the American people. This cell that the people that we know every day that the poor oppressed people with went to the state to set up machinery that is to many people this weekend after the slave the whole world see.

So it is with the what the who should be will be saying is that we went to the little click. As far as the power structure is concerned. We are we are two weeks with exposing them every day and day in and day out to the people and the people work will be a threat to what they understand. What do you think the end of people in the in the so-called you know establishment power structure. I put on my words like no racist pig out of people like anything. You know like oh we don't really care only how tight they get about the names we call them because these names are true. They do this is the way to add our power to the people means just like it sounds our power to the people take the hands out of take their power at the hands of a few and give it back to the people. You know this these pigs are proud of to deny the people their right to have you know the share of being human beings have been born and on the face of the planet Earth. A baby not a people a right to share in the wealth of the

sea. When they denied people the right to vote the right to know the power to determine their own existence. They demand of people a right to live thing. So are we all you know far as I'm getting uptight about being called a pig you know we don't mean we don't worry about that. We call them as we see and calm as they act. But sometimes when you're talking about getting more people to your cause. And how does it work I mean I mean would you say that more people are joining the Black Panther Party now than ever but I mean isn't just really growing in my after years or what is getting the people to see what we come and go. Is there like incentives education by example as we'll be late to see the revolution. No the war is a war the masses to mobilize the masses and we allow them to bring about to struggle. On and to bring about the revolution here. One thing we have to look at is that the oppression and the brutality in attacks on the Black Panther Party is educating the people itself as education to

people says the murder of Wade Hampton and Mark Clark more people have been more concerned about the party they even want to know about the party and we only know what we in to see the attacks on the party also hip people like contradictions in the system the contradictions and we have that we rise every day to educate the people you know really brings about the people getting hip to the party because we're not a party to ourself we're party for the people of the people asked if they were asleep. You know this is this is it we are definitely struggling there and here you've got down some social very social people in New York throwing parties like requiring anything out of that kind of thing. First of all these people don't think they understand that our struggle is really one must understand that the party is not racist. You see the need to move on a level. There they're able to. But she like you know I thought the party rallies petition that people get up

the best assistance they could give to the party that support us in every way possible. As far as giving donations that we span a British program which I just one one me the calf a bit of a task at a party and to meet the needs and desires of people. What's your reaction to murders and tears of violence against the Black Panther Party that's been happening in the country. We go is this a planned attack of genocide of the Black Panther Party in particular and in general black people we know that the attacks on the party are just to destroy the Central Committee and the New Black Panther Party altogether when the attack of the show the tone is good and as bad as it is bad we had affected a lot of members of revolutionary Bubba's service of the people and servants of the people above the sisters and in jail and in prison but also we realize that art when they attack us that we're doing some

good and we can draw a clear line of demarcation between our friends and our enemies and definitely when they attack us we realize that the Chicago pig pig pig here in Philadelphia are definitely our enemies when they attack us. So this is education to the people also by example and also with this. It's good when we're sure that our struggle is progressing and you have to understand that the more rigorous program that we implement the more we move to raise a contradiction is still the people that they can know that they can no longer live in harm's way in this in this society and they cannot they and they can no longer determine a destiny that they will see that I have done away with and that as far as you know are not giving people enough that things are destroyed. It's mainly you know after the party after the fight are to continue to work and as far as you know me kill what the government doing that is open more people's eyes that the better state is good you know like

when it come down the price of the stories that we have we are progressing. So I doubt we're moving in the right direction the way these contradictions. Do you mind that the Black Panthers have this kind of radical image or that it's been you know pretty hard for people to get to understand that you know you're not basically racist that you're talking about it. Don't you mind that you know you do have a radical military please. Well. We're revolutionaries are enemies of the state and we challenge a state for their crimes against the people. The image that the news media puts down on from from day to day to pop again as the people and misinformed people about the party we have to move to clean it and that image up the image that the party people risen we get from the party when they see our breakfast programs and in action when they see clone programs in health clinics are in X and then they get a wonderful image of the pile and they were more willing to work with the body. But like we say the news media in this country are always working to destroy the image of the party. Like what I

mean what what does news media say about you know there's always been some kind of multi every day you can pick up the paper and read some no funny article that was once one of those PIGS of the a vote about the party are different you know things that talk about the birthers program such as you know they might say that we only feed about maybe 30 children a day and the children economic records program are so few that you know the breakfast program hardly exists. The talent you know distort the people a lot of Tammy to make racism show when they say that we don't we. Back with only black children we provide anybody for any child that comes in their daughter's home we are white black or yellow green or going to eat. What trouble have you had from the police in Philadelphia in September as are the police or FBI and the local police which were you know one to many a little bit of the more FBI actually came and arrested the captain defense captain a Black Panther Party very sell for

or a rifle that was supposed to be stolen from our camera June I was approximately one year from the time we arrested him. We know that this was a trumped up charges with the police and what they really came forward a police petition for community control of police that we were circulating to the people. These petitions would actually get community control of police to stop the police brutality in a mode of black people in the black community by legal means. They came a day after they arrested the Panthers and members of the party. They are bussed into the office to stall stall our menu where machines and foul cards and various other things that we use to get information out to the people they actually view and the community control of police petitions were taken. So this where the tech against the body we also found bugs in the office lady had placed them in and what kind of bag. Well listen Enberg I guess you know you would actually you know

check in on somebody like to find out what the party was the next move would be at the bar exposed them to the people. So this is one of the attacks against the party and like right now as far as attacks a concern the breakfast coordinator of the Black Panther Party will be going to court. On tomorrow as the back as coordinator of the Philadelphia branch of the Black Panther Party. And he's always worked hard on a breakfast program just to serve the people and when they move out to the least on take one of the servants of the people off the street. The only movement against all the people because they. Live without the people's own. Army to have you know the people have nothing really. How many black northeast. Set ups opposit they have around saying are they about 30 chapters across the country. I mean right here in the state. I don't know just how many it is what do you call this one this is the information. That this park community information center people will come and

come here and obtain information personify. Give information to so now the personal happenings. Things you just thought you know I saw I know this is no dislocation here it is right across from a school where students would come in you know and obtain information classified information so that we would like the information center with. More like in a ghetto area with a large concentration of poor people than we do with and get out and express our you know our police people a way to come in you know an operating office you know do the job that you that the Panthers would do you know more like you know take over office for themselves you know operating. You get a lot of people from this part because you know right on you know a lot of students come in you know it's like you know because of the misinformation have been passed down you know about the party. You know many people come in you know and they may be curious about everything they hear because they may hear so much. Therefore you know people who are somewhat information concerning a backpack party there you go

Kiran they want to go even if they want to go further. They go to the store to go to the other side of the story and I fancy information and therefore gain and therefore getting the job done. That was Saunders telling you about the advantages of having an information center for the party next to a high school. A little later in this program you can hear some of those kids massing around the door of this office. They do it every time. Now you're going to hear Brown give a typical Panther response to how they get their money. He says they get it from the capitalists who rob the poor all day. Now it's difficult for anybody to deal with that kind of reply. The answer may have a little truth in it. Liberals do donate money to the Panthers occasionally also charitable organizations but the way Brown things is a curious blend of Karl Marx Robin Hood Ralph Waldo Emerson and twentieth century poor black most important whether it's typical black panther rhetoric or whether it's accurate or not. Brown really believes that.

But how does it work here arenas. Do you have money to live on or you know. Just like any other paying for France to tap across the country. It's like oh we don't go out and we go to a businessman in the community will rob the people day by day and we all just tell him to get up off some of the some of the stuff that they have out on the people doing that day and give it back to the community. But for all the papers that we sell. Someone help us. And just to survive the people keep us surviving merely because it's the people's I want us to really be here and it keeps our surviving donations and soulful. I mean is there some kind of central office. Oh no actually this is this open in the den the day we wouldn't be we wouldn't live here you know in effect that the police would probably likes lot of us. What happens there is that we disappear in a day and give out information to the people as far as stablish in the community information center that we want to live out and live in

with the people has not been established yet. So this is just like what you would call Willie I would say it was for the school because yes we moved the upper class to do in the day. Students were you told OK you know community do you to volunteer to do this. No man with a party member this we're glad that it's something that we're got to be done. We don't you know we don't bounty is no bounty and to be done is nobody picking you. You see it's got to be done. And you just go with where the work has to be done to start working. Actually this is our S. S. Now to work up here and we you know work in West Philly area to organize and mobilize the people up here don't expose America to well you know now you can be sort of you know look ahead to the future quite a while. Wipe down that well what would be the nicest thing that happened then. How are the particles. Yeah and across America they're in every house but I think I would want to go into the future

I don't think we could ever want to say what's going to happen. We know that we've got a lot of work to do a lot of struggling to do and we are mobilizing people so that they can actually see what's happening here in America as the release date so we would know going into the future and actually said was going to happen. They are them are unfair even this afternoon because we don't know what the pigs of the power structure planning for the party what do you know what the next move is going to be are we going to get it get people ready for the people to get to. You know one of the things that the critics. The new raft of the Black Panthers have anything that they don't fully understand any of these groups and in this country one of the things that critics say is that. That you're big you know groups like yours are big on slogans and generalities when actually comes down to doing something you know that you're not so good now. I mean what would you then have what would you say to that.

Oh let's have a body of oh we practiced practitioners we know that's no slogan that we have that we say that we don't want to practice our power to the people as such we are given our power to the people when we move out to open up our programs any up off the pier when the elderly both of the sisters showed it in a bull jab and when the pigs attacked him and he actually started on fire firing back at the pretty often you know that's the one often pig. This is you know these slogans are actually what we mean and what we because we see it's got to be done. It's not enough and that we just say you know in effect it has to be saying something. So everything we are you know revolutionary nationalist You know we are practitioners we put what we say to play how do you feel you have to arm yourself right now. I mean they like their guns. I would say not about no guns. OK I mean you can say no no guns we don't make the law. Nothing about no guns is just dead. We do. Definitely most definitely black people should arm themselves from house to house community

to community from door to door. So to protect themselves from the police brutality in the murder of black people in the community. Number seven on the temp point platform and program said one needed end to police brutality murder black people Second Amendment of the Constitution give the people right to bear arms. Therefore we feel the bad people themselves and for their own protection we can stop it just stop police brutality in our communities the motor home. Organize a self-defense groups that are dedicated to defend the Nek community and we do feel most strongly that black people themselves but it's self-defense. Do you see any contradiction between you now saying you are carrying a gun with him. I mean in a way you are you getting rid of the police but you're adapting their tactics to do it. I mean do you think that's the only way. First of all that Pathfinders not carry guns. Like you said before but we do it every day every person that you know right from that time for self defense. Now many many critics No 10 you know take down a contract. The same

family guy and we get even weapons every day that he stockpiled weapons they would be just given me for self-defense and the fighting is not never for call carried weapons and if you know what I'm saying is do away with the pigs and you do away with the oppression but then I mean you know what else I mean don't you need something else to keep people going along doing things right and we are going to happen. I feel like this if you meet the basic most needs of the people there will be no need for the way that people act the day of the person who attacks the day of technical so-called criminal as far as the power to concern a label of a person in the black community or in a point of quest community they label him a criminal because he attacks out against his environment his environment is so hostile and none of his basic wants and needs are met This is why he attacks out. We have affected his he has no land no brain and no power to determine his own existence. So he's called a perma when he when he breaks

into a store as the OB held holds up a bank to get his basic wants and needs. We don't think that nobody is actually crazy they just do this for fun. We feel that once the basic wants and needs of the people are met and every daylight they will actually put it you know would put an end to a whole lot of stuff that goes down into the black in a black community a very obvious poor person to move. At the very end of all the talking I asked each of them how old they were and I'm. Very much. In joining the Black Panther Party for these 19 year old guys. Must have been a little like finding religion and this religion has all the proper trimmings. Huey Newton and Bobby Seale are their prophets. All power to the people is their noble intent. It's a sin for these Panthers to just sit around and talk and not to actively work. There is genuine fear these boys are afraid in earnest of being shot down by the police and that's why they don't keep this office open at night. Their idea of what a successful revolution will be like is as vague as anybody who tries to talk about what

heaven is like. These young Panthers have the zeal and the fervor of their leaders and they had the same answers. Some of it may have been simple minded to your excessively paranoid or flat outrageous. At best a third rate religion. But there are a few important facts and what these Panthers said they are trying to help their own race. And they do not reject white people. Those are sophistications which many other movements have lacked. Finally we have no complete way of understanding a brother off the street unless we happen to be one. And the important thing in this interview anyway is that these boys are young. They are new to the Panther Party and they really believe in it. This has been a federal case. Your correspondent and still. His program was distributed by the national educational radio network.