Urban Confrontation; 41; The Modern Policemen: Changing Attitudes in a Moving Society

From Northeastern University the National Information Network was an. Urban. Confrontation. But I think America in spite of the tremendous and wonderful things it has done has failed to identify some of its basic problems. In my view those problems are in terms of identifying them. The fact that we are and have been a criminal society that we are and have been a violent society. And lastly that we are and have been since our inception a racist society. We hear a lot of talk about a law and order but little talk about justice. And in my definition justice is achieved through the process of law and order as a result. I'd rather talk about justice than I would about law and order. We need it more than anything else in America a sense of involvement on the part of the larger community. And we need people who are involved in law enforcement who will act in a legal and ethical and humanistic fashion.

This week on urban confrontations Joseph Campbell the police in Beverly Hills California and the Donald Kohn Republican candidate for Massachusetts attorney general in 1970. They program a modern policeman changing attitude in a fast moving society. The United States has recently become the scene of great social upheaval with much student unrest racial violence and demonstrations directed against the policies of the government. Caught in the crossfire between the people and the legislature are the police who have become the target for the frustrations of many Americans. In the next half hour Joseph P. Campbell chief of police in Beverly Hills California and a Donald Conn Republican candidate for Massachusetts attorney general in 1070. We'll discuss the role of the policeman in today's society. Donald Kohn begins.

The role of the law enforcement officer in these difficult times is very very hard to define to describe the Supreme Court of the United States in a series of case decisions as required a law enforcement officer to be a psychologist a psychiatry ist a social worker an attorney all in one package. And it's an impossible task. Next we add the latest social phenomenon of our times which is civil disorder campus unrest decider in the ghetto call it what you will. And we put again our police officer right in the middle of this particular situation. The police officer did not pass the law which is giving people pause to reflect. He did not involve US for example in a war in a distant land in Southeast Asia which has become so unpopular on our college campuses. He did not pass the laws which prohibit the use of marijuana or other so-called harmful

drugs. This was done usually many many years before by a legislature a body of man a Congress and the police officer is charged with the responsibility of enforcing the law of the land. Whether that lawyer is responses to what citizens young and old or whether it is not responsive and in need of change it is a impossible intellectual position to be in. And yet he must do the job because without the administration of justice the dissenters cannot dissent. The demonstrators cannot demonstrate. So a police officer is charged with the responsibility of walking into a volatile explosive situations on college campuses and in under private areas across the state and this nation and putting down civil decide is where there are violations of law. Usually having not much idea here about the causes or the effects of what goes on before him.

He usually is not really certain whether or not we ought to be in Vietnam. He is not really certain whether or not the laws pertaining to the integration of all races and all colors at a particular construction site are really equitable or not. He does not know. He does his job and he has become the scapegoat of the society. He is accused of the over kill the young to kill or no kill at all. He is accused of overreacting or under-reacting and we don't really look to the fact that he is just a vehicle charged with this awesome responsibility. No one ever gets up tight at the legislature which passed the alleged unpopular law. No one gets up tight at the Congress of the United States which many people some legitimately and some unfailingly accuse of being unresponsive to the needs of this society. A law enforcement officer is the man in the middle and unfortunately being in the middle with the extremes of polarization which has become the popular word in today's jargon. His middle position

is becoming stretched and stretched and stretched. It's an impossible position a politician continues to play politics with him and his position and does not allow him to be a professional. And on the other hand the dissenters continue to yell and rail and scream at him with no regard for what his real function is. Police Chief Joseph Campbell feels that because of the negative attitudes of American citizens toward the police we get better law enforcement than we deserve. He thinks that many law enforcement problems can be solved by greater interaction and involvement by the community at large. But America probably gets far better law enforcement than it really deserves. And I'll clarify that by saying that because of the almost complete lack of involvement on the part of the community and I fail here to insist that police be held accountable the failure to not insist that police be a part of the community rather than apart from the community I think has resulted in a far better law enforcement than you people really

deserve. It really points to a serious problem in law enforcement one of our particular hang ups is that we have traditionally classified ourselves as a semi military organization complete with all the trappings ranks the rituals the general staff concept which says in effect that the experts will do it and the civilians keep it. And I guess led to some of the complications that we've experienced. There's been a general obsession in America I believe to label social issues as quote police problems close quote. And the various forms of contemporary unrest Usually of course are blamed on outside agitators and fuzzy minded weirdos and all kinds and all colors of militants. But I think America in spite of the tremendous and wonderful things it has done has failed to identify some of its basic problems. In my view those problems are in terms of identifying them. The fact that we are and have been a criminal society that we are and

have been a violent society and lastly that we are and have been since our inception a racist society. One of the first steps of problem solving is that in order to solve the problem we have to acknowledge the existence and identity of the specific problems. And I don't think up to this point that we really face those kinds of realities. It's nice to talk about pollution but I want to talk about social pollution. They want clean air. And what does clean air mean to a kid in the ghetto if he's not making it. In my travels around the country in most of the major cities the young people have a reasonable grasp of what the realities are. A lot of them are saying that we not only need more policemen but we need a different kind of policeman. We don't need the plastic policeman that we need that kind of person with a social awareness and with a sense of responsibility and appropriate motivation. Who can work with people problems and do it effectively. Whether it be on a campus or in the community there saying we need

a different kind of police leadership. And as a result a different kind of police organization they seem to say and there is an overwhelming need for change in the general structure of law enforcement in the Presidents Crime Commission Report 967 pointed out the same thing and they said we need a rational rational restructuring of law enforcement. We hear a lot of talk about a law and order but little talk about justice. And then my definition of justice is achieved through the process of law and order as a result. I'd rather talk about justice than I would about law and order. We need it more than anything else in America a sense of involvement on the part of the larger community. And we need people who are involved in law enforcement who will act in a legal and ethical and humanistic fashion. Donald cotton sees the new wave of policemen who are returning to college as one of the best ways to close the gap between students and police. Both are gaining an

insight into each other. He feels the results are very positive. I think that Massachusetts has tried an approach which is getting the police officer into the college campus as a student. Throw in service police education programs through the colleges of Criminal Justice that is springing up. It is in essence trying to get the officer to further his own education and become a better law enforcement officer. I've had occasion to teach at many of these in-service police training organizations and I've discovered a very interesting fact with a law enforcement officer goes on a leave of absence for a semester or perhaps two semesters to pick up college credits towards an associate or a bachelor's degree. These people are coming out with a far less anti student attitude and a far greater awareness of

at least the student point of view and this seems to be spreading to some of their colleagues who are now clamoring to get into these programs to the point where many chiefs just cannot allow it because of the point of view of limited manpower and all these people on leaves of absence as it is spreading right across the law enforcement community. And you will find literally hundreds and hundreds of police officers are going to college. Some of them are returning to college some of going to for the first time and I think this is a very healthy sign and perhaps if it continues and the trend continues the student police officer antagonism at least will be minimized by those who have interacted with the students. Police Chief Kimball reminds traits the college audience for their laughter at policemen going to college. He reminds them that better educated and more aware policeman are the surest way of closing the existing gap. I can understand your patients about campus spies but I think you're doing yourself a

disservice if you start to give the laughs to policemen going to college because you are rebutting your own kinds of statements because the situation between you and police will never change unless you have been educated in light and kind of policeman. So welcome this guy to the campus and whether or not he's a narc or whatever. That remains to be seen. But you know in this damn stereotyping you look at me and I've got Grandma glasses and long hair or something. And right away I'm a hippie I'm a pervert I'm an addict you know this sort of thing we resent that kind of stereotype. And I would suggest that we do too and we resent the stereotype that if a guy wears one of these blue uniforms that he's an idiot. There are some idiots and uniforms we're doing our best to minimize them. Fifty percent of my entire department has a role in college level you know university level

courses. And I thank him for it. I got a bachelor's degree to get 11 and a quarter percent permanent bonus added to their salary. It's worth money to me and it's worth money to you to see the advent of the educated policeman the United States. Mr. Khan answers a question concerning the attack against students by the construction workers. He warns that violence is wrong no matter where it stems from. What is that basically that is a reaction by a group to the conduct of another group. It's part of that old polarization where all hung up on you say that they weren't treated with the same severity that a student demonstrator against the war in Vietnam. I don't know I wasn't there. They are an individual or group of men who reacted to what they saw. Violently violence is wrong whether it's violence stemming from the student or whether it's violence stemming from a group of our dads in retaliation to the student violence is violence.

And as a law enforcement officer we are charged with the responsibility of enforcing the law whether it's a hijab or whether it's a student militant no matter where a policeman is recruited problem he carries over into his new role all of his firmly laid attitudes ideas and beliefs. This is why Kimball feels that an educated policeman can deal with social problems with a more open mind. Appears to me that in the past we have recruited a rather conservative type of individual. As rank and file policemen across the country often times from the lower class with lower class values perhaps overly moralistic and this certainly would carry itself through in the way he interprets and applies the laws he brings with him a course is imprinting then the attitudes that he's shaped over a period of time and also whether you like it or not he reflects the general community because that's where he's recruited from. We have found in California

particularly that when we recruit a person with a college background it doesn't make him an instant cock you know doesn't walk off the campus into a phone booth and tear off a shirt with a big Superman on the chest. But he does it because of having more of an open mind and certainly the academic tools to deal with social problems. He tends to do a better job. And so if these kinds of attitudes exist I think they can largely be overcome. Number one by President or appropriate conduct on the part of students and secondly a more knowledgeable kind of policeman chief Kimball continues stressing the importance of communicating with all segments of the community to create a feeling of trust and cooperation. It's a lot easier to to yell pig than be one. And they're facing not hypothetical theoretical kinds of situations on the street but they're facing a life and death survival game every time they leave the station. In our experience with dealing not with that specific problem but with similar problems

we find that you have to work just as hard at prevention as you do at catching people and that you can't do one without the other. I think one thing our people go through 10 weeks eight hours a day of training which includes human relations training as well as the more mundane kinds of police things and you seem to be a common experience that it takes about a month to get their feet on the ground and stop eating red meat for lunch and this kind of thing is similar to a cram course situation on campus all stops out because of time limitations and getting things into people. I think however that there is a need for curriculum adjustment and in academies we can program a good program learning for the you know how you write a ticket how you make an exit diagram this sort of thing. And a lot more time to do human relations training to their interaction with people because they are in a sense of people handling when they get out there on the street.

We use various ways to get our people communicating with the community through rap sessions with kids on Saturday afternoon over to a free clinic on Fairfax and sit on the floor and talk with kids who are strung out on drugs. Go to UCLA and see what's happening there. We get the new water connection when people move into town and send an officer out of the house and he gives them a little PR bit to end this sort of thing. We're only limited by our own initiative in terms of creating better relationships and non stress communication with the people we're dealing with. Gamble feels that one of the drawbacks of police departments is their insistence upon 20 to 30 year contracts with the 4S although with some reservations. He also approves of police work as a substitute for military duty plus a wider role for women on the force. I would like to get the Peace Corps type in the police work and the guy who's a little too cynical to go into Peace Corps Vista still has a motivation to do something meaningful for the

community. See one of our hang ups I believe is that we have insisted on this 20 or 30 year career thing for a policeman. We won't even take your hot body unless you say you know you swear in vampire blood that you can stay around for 30 years. I think many people including myself have re-evaluated their position in this regard. If I can get a well-motivated intelligent individual for three or four years I'll hire him any time as opposed to mediocracy for 30 years and begin to make those kinds of choices. There's been a lot of discussion about people performing the military obligation in a police department. It's not all Too bad I think has many good features. Unfortunately we have to be arbitrary in terms of they're doing the same kind of work with the same quality as the regular placement. I think we have to reserve the right to ship them back for a court martial if they didn't. Now that might dampen their enthusiasm for and I would further suggest that if you are the women's liberation that women be drafted and

they be given the same opportunity to serve in police departments or in the military. Chief gamble favors the recent call for the decentralization of city services. He also challenges people to get involved with government and to change what's wrong in the system. But I do favor the decentralization of city services not just police. You know the pressure's been on place to open up storefront kinds of operations and sort of be an ombudsman for the neighborhood I don't think that's necessarily a police role. But I think the decentralization of city hall in Los Angeles for example there's about 80 cities in the county there's over seven million people live in the county and about two and a half to two and three quarter million people in the city of Los Angeles. Now you've got to hassle with with city hall in many areas you've got to get on a bus and go for an hour and 45 minutes to two hours just to get to city hall. Not counting the waiting. While some bureaucrat shuffles around from one office to another before you

finally find the people you need I think to move to take government back to the people is a great idea. But that's only part of it. The other part is people getting back into the government. The challenge you to get into it. And change the system. The question of the effectiveness and existence of civilian review boards as law and going to subject of heated argument between the police and the people here Mr Khan tells why he is against putting civilians in charge of reviewing police actions against civilian review boards for the simple reason that you were asking untrained people to react and interact in a professional field and only history tells us that it just hasn't worked in times that it had been you. It is developed into a yelling contest between the civilian review board in the law enforcement officers involved. What I would suggest to you was the real concept and the real need is interaction between the business community

and civilians and law enforcement in the form of mutual assistance programs such as one that was instituted in Watertown Massachusetts where the business community got together and said let's take some of our professional knowledge training and abilities and make them work to make you the law enforcement officer function better. They have professional programmers for computers. They offered public relations services. They offered more professional photography work through the aid of professional photographic studio. They offered press relations to the local newspaper. They offered communications analysis through a systems communication company which specialized in the field. This is the kind of civilian board in the type of concept that I think can work with law enforcement to improve law enforcement. But you can't superimpose civilians into the enforcement area here with no

training and experience and ask them to sit in a supervisory capacity because it'll usually erupt into a dog fight between that committee and the law enforcement community and everyone will suffer. The police will suffer. The communities will suffer in the civilian review board will suffer. Jeff Campbell feels that policeman have a great deal of responsibility to their communities because they make judgement on the actions and lives of the people they protect. Civilian review boards in his opinion will place some needed restraints on them and provide another outlet for this important decision making. It will give policeman added impetus to use this responsibility wisely or they will have to answer for it. I think this matter role definition is really the starting point because order maintenance is the primary responsibility of a policeman there and unfortunately he operates with fewer constraints and parameters within which he must

function then do I as chief of police. We're sending a patrolman out of regard to the quantity and length of his training in a community and we're saying in essence this is your piece of turf. Take care of it. He makes some very important judgments on people's freedom of movement their very life regulation the conduct without in my view and if guidelines. And I think some of his own bias will creep into those judgments unless we pump in other means of making decisions. And he is functioning under the territorial imperative and that's why when his territory is invaded he gets at Titan and these kinds of confrontations occur present when you and he are an art a good person and he I think we can't avoid the question of responsibility and accountability in police. I think we've passed the buck for too long on that. And I had to be critical of police I'm trying to be more introspective as a police because I've been in this for a few years. I think that

review boards are inevitable unless we at long last engage in the process of accountability to the community we serve and this very question is being or will be considered in Berkeley and the election in November because they've got an issue on the ballot to establish 12 policing areas I believe it is within the city of Berkeley which will be accountable to a local board. This kind of fragmentation you know would just raise heck with a lot of things at least as we've known it. But here again is the beginning and is overdue. The public demand for accountability. People with integrity and people with contact with the community you don't have that kind of problem a lot of other areas you do and we have that choice I believe in law enforcement. See the Shape up or ship out. Either be accountable or accept review boards. Northeastern University has brought you. Joseph Campbell he took police in Beverly Hills

California and Donald Kohn Republican candidate for Massachusetts attorney general in 1070. Today's program the modern policeman changing attitudes in a fast moving society. The views and opinions expressed on the preceding program were not necessarily those of Northeastern University or the state. This week's program was produced by Dave Brown cooperation with Tufts University directed by Sheila Sylvester. With technical supervision by Bill Cox executive producer for urban confrontation is undergoing my. Urban confrontation has been brought to you by the Department of radio production at Northeastern University under the direction of skills of our faith. This program is one of the last in this series future productions have been suspended due to financial restrictions. And more. We hope that past programs have been interesting and educational. And welcome your comments and opinions on this series. Address your remarks to urban

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