Voices of Europe; An Austrian on the United States

Voices of Europe produced and recorded by Milton Mayer in cooperation with the University of Chicago under a grant from the Educational Television and Radio Center in cooperation with the National Association of educational broadcasters. And now Milton Mayer product you know that being was born in Switzerland of Austrian parents. Her father's name was gash. The family came originally from the Netherlands but had been in Austria for 300 years. Her father was a landowner and a count and she of course a countess. She was whisked back to Australia when the first world war broke out and was taught by governesses until she was 14 then attended a convent school and took her Ph.D. at the University of groks in Austria and two weeks later this was 1937 married an Austrian and went to the United States where he was engaged as a university

professor. There they lived for 10 years there their second child was born their first born in Austria and the third born on their return to Austria in 1947. And so will Frank you know the Dean after 10 years in the United States. You came back to Austria. Why. Because we all tended to come back when we went to America it was because. The husband was offered a job that was very interesting to see in your country. And we met that superstition and meant to stay there for five years and then started Korea last year. The world came out of the four or five years it became 10 years but we never became citizens because we always said we should build there man and that it was not a

problem of peace and to become a citizen of the country if you didn't instead intend to spend the rest of your life there. Why did you feel that you should go back. Because everyone belongs where he belongs belong to this country. What I used to explain to Americans who did put that same question to me quite often. Was the following thing. I mean if my house burns down and my neighbors offer me their house and move there I am most grateful. But when my house is rebuilt I think everybody expects me to go back. My neighbor's house may be much much nicer than my own but still belong to my own house and after have to have a mission in my house a place which I don't have in my neighborhood. And I do understand that your neighbor's house in this case the United States is much much nicer than your own in this

case Austria in many ways it is much nicer in what ways. Oh where you from for instance through a landscape point of view America has things to offer which can compete with no part of Europe from the half lives point of view. Life is much easier there to gadgets and things like that are much more general than the I hear all the do exist the many pleasant things and what I missed when I came back here was have an icebox a car back there but things to make up for it and as I say even if it's nicer one still didn't plug along there. Did you know. Did your husband agree with you by the way about coming back. Yes he did he said from the beginning on that he too felt that he should come back

America is a is an immense country is a very rich country you have so many people you don't really need as you know you and you have more immigrants than you need to particularly Auster as a small country a poor country and I think in great need of peeper four will have seen a little more of the world and can perhaps help me broaden the horizon of some people here bring back their experiences. One shouldn't explore that much of that import new ones it's very good for Austrians to immigrate to for a while people learn and see something and then bring back to their country of what they have learned what values do you do that you try to bring back from early stage. I think the most important thing for us was that in America we became Europeans from just being asked to move. We became something brought us something. Wider

harassment lived when we landed in 47 in law are just completely ruined was dismal. It was France which I knew only as a tourist but I was home. It didn't make much difference with it when it was France or Spain or anything Europe was home to me often. Plasma travelling bedroom the whole thing was home to me and I think even as many people as possible could have that experience and that kind of you'll learn some kind of unification of Europe would be much easier. Petit nationalisms could be that it will perhaps and will and then Surely when you say from having been Australian or having been an Austrian you became a European. Could you tell me struck you know that being what what it was to be an Austrian. Well no I mean when I am married I have was fairly young and naturally inexperienced. What I mean is that really I

knew Austria where I didn't think it was the most beautiful a most wonderful country in the world but that took it for granted that it was my country as a term of mad countries interests should be first and foremost and I didn't really think very much about the what should happen to the rest of Europe. This was natural for the role that the civil between the two was from a distance. Well during one more tool for her in New York when the Netherlands were invaded when their engine was invaded when France fell. All of this began to touch me just a little when I hear that a cousin of mine was killed the implanters that has does it matter father my brother had been killed. But it did belong to the family felt that all this was lost my family and my home. Do you mean that it was patriotism or national patriotism. The hell you know our history or brought you back.

I think that's perhaps wrong about I should almost say a shadow expression it's something something more unique spicket like you know like why does not belong to one family one doesn't always like of a member of one's family but one can't help belonging to it. It's the upbringing of the circumstances that surround one's view that makes one that all the things in one need not explain inside the family because the others understand them the way one reacts to see what has to be somebody outside of you who have to begin to explain this in this way that way. One of the catalyst for this it's a family is that one does not have to explain what takes each other for more rather more or less and is relaxed when I have to try and to

be put on certain expressions of something. If you mean that for 10 more whole years in the United States you were a visitor or you felt like a visitor. Yes you never became what shall I say acclimated. I've loved it very much. But I never felt that I was an American and also Well not the same as the image of the Americans who'll somehow have kept the bridges burned their bridges cut their ties and I think in some cases it seemed to me rather frantically try to be some very American that that was something which is against immigration is this sort of ALL WORTH straining and 150 percent American misery which some

images put in the effort to be just like the American that I can never be really like an American and that national nationality or say citizenship is really not such an important thing the fact that somebody would give me a paper which would say that American citizens would not change me in any way and still be the same guy and there will not not why an American. And again perhaps not really an Austrian anymore and that is why I think immigration is something very dangerous which can do. Unpleasant things for people as well as pleasant ones I mean it depends but it's a personal thing which should be decided with great care by the individual. It can be done. Had you been in Austria at the time of the Anschluss that is when the Nazis took Austria

or anti-national years your worth would you have been tempted to flee as a matter of fact at war here. I had just arrived to visit my parents from the United States early in March 1938 and now here on the day of the masses marched into Austria and is one of the days which are very unlike you ever forget. Of course it was not so difficult for me because we were then residents of the United States and have the fair assure them that I would be able to get out. But when I left again in September 38 to go back to the States it was very very unpleasant feeling because we didn't know would we ever be able to come back would we ever see any of our family again. But we did not see in that sense because

we still meant to come back if we could. You were tempted even then to emigrate. No not even that. Because what we foresaw are not as so much it means that it has so much rather than definitely fall for the war and we knew it would be perhaps a long war but any war must end at some time. Although it may sound cowardly from one point of view in the concentration cannot present we wouldn't have been any use to anybody Where's mother the pivot is in the United States where perhaps in the search yields to Austria maybe had to learn to inform certain people in America about the goings on here and his experiences there after the war where fairly great value for us I think.

Did you when you came back in 1947 find. But Austria was vastly different from the artistry of your childhood. Yes yes and no. Farm girl. Personally of course. On my closer family naturally it remains the same of the some missing that allows only the attitude of the sane but there was certainly one actor there was some animosity against us. After all we had lived in what people here consider the comfort of an old one and all the such great company. But certainly we were not in any kind of danger. We had not gone through all the things in a duffel and go for quite a few years. This was a difficult thing to get over with people who will have not been very very close to one before but the Austria itself to

which it came back was a very very small island in 1947 I suppose an extremely poor and desperate Austria compared with even the Australian left. Yes yes very much so I mean naturally very very very poor conditions were terrible. People are naturally came to where we were and be as they were. Everybody went after getting the most they could in that sense it was not pleasant. Or was it was it was strange to have to national to find a completely new generation having grown up with Plack different ideas for one thing that struck me we. When I was young when I went to the university we were all really very interested in politics as was the time of the day on the Dorcas regime etc. at the beginning of the masses and we all of the violence

interested and passionate discussions for each other and so on. And after the gantt peeper. After the war mostly I really rather visit interested when most of them lost and been through a lot simply had enough of it and the other ones seem to be well not particularly interested nor think you have become somewhat involved. Some will also mess with Hatcher that say that they prefer to keep out of it and in the ten years since your return is their state of mind change very radically not very radically ashit say because I'm always rather surprised. Blowing is not key seems to me much much less interested in anything politically. Then later we were at that age. Why. What do you suppose.

Oh how I wonder I think it's the same thing it's probably a fear of who after all of the he's too young to really remember much of the war but what he heard there and partly on the idea that it's because some cultic it is so evocative of that matter leaving one knows but does not want to be communists and they are wrong. But to the other as they'd rather study what they really are interested in and just to maintain that that politics would you rather that this generation were more like yours more political. No I don't think so I think on the whole. Politics is a lot less messy business. Perhaps it's just as well to keep out of it because the good seems to be very very difficult indeed to be in politics. Keep your hands clean Christian you know.

Fuck you and Dean. What would you say if I can generalize and if you'll help me generalize what would you say that you who are able to bring to the United States or other the old world could bring to the new and what bring back failures from the New World the all. What are these two worlds need from one another. Learned that they need a lot from one another I think like you know the same with the people there's all of us are the only way. Life goes on is change and the worst thing is the phone are locked to exchange of the best things to change. What the European can bring to America. Is a little perhaps a sense of history of the past of the common past I think that the American era tends to forget a

little bit. After all European history is his history too and his history doesn't only start he thought it through or whatever as he was astounded that do we all have common ancestors not that America culturally doesn't belong to Europe and our sense of the past our ties with the past which seem perhaps rather said it to Americans have certain valuables and keep us together. What the American brings to Europe is the broader view the lack. As I said before petty nationalism lack of pettiness altogether. What struck me as a great American Virtual was the lack of envy which is very strong in Europe. And I don't think it does. Purely the reasons for it a purely material because I mean that are just poor

people in America as anywhere else but I think the poor man in America who sees a Cadillac drive by think he'd like to have one true but perhaps too all right. Someday I will have one. Whereas the European tends to think only if I only have that Cadillac instead of this man. You see the difference. Envy is a great European of us that is one of the great charms of America which Americans can teach to Europeans that are hospitality. Which is certainly not generally Europe and I've often been ashamed of patriots I have seen Americans traveling Europe and when I think of the street as America as compared to Europe. Well let me show you the current word if I may for Europe at this point. Isn't it possible there aren't both these

camps envy and in hospitality. Or do I mean hospitality that the American can afford not to be envious of and cannot afford to be hospitable. And the European I know want them for it that is not true because I have seen it in America for instance. People who really have to make an effort to will be hospitable all let us think for instance now the year after the war on the packages my friends in America send the packages at our lots and lots. But the best packages and the most that ages I've got from people where I knew all they had to make an effort. First of all to get the things together and perhaps in some cases a real financial sacrifice. We have credit only as a society the lower income brackets and it was

not the ones in the higher income brackets that sent us the most powerful but the other ones and the same for posterity will you will you can go to the super home and everything will be produced in an informal way. I think one of the reasons for US European hospitality is a sort of rather silly old fashioned formality which I try to break that is considered to be very badly kept I think than most Europeans because I've accepted the American happy go lucky way whether Cannes is welcome and gets what that is. Don't make special efforts to be former and if the food is sinful rather have my friends will censor fool them not have them because I can't afford to give them at a profit and that too many Europeans is understandable. I don't know who the old lady is in Vienna who complains that they can't see their friends why one got a maid I cut all the sandwiches from this and that place where one has

for the census from. And I have not patience with that sort of thing. Yes it has been cited for you alone. Because if my friends only come for the egg and sandwiches all the small maid who serves them much rather not see them and that is something the American peaches that easy charming off a tad without any at least visible effort. No I don't mean to I don't mean to make a politician or a political scientist or a statesman love you with this point but I can't resist asking for a can of beans if you are not singing the praises of American democracy and in effect say that the European spirit is not democratic enough. Is democratic. I don't think that that has so much to do with it because. Society For instance you can you can mix people from all layers of

society here. I found that is something which is easier than here perhaps than in America where I find that certain plans are permitted for pause and was even total. But I know the people are invited I had that happen. Mix the right people to meet and seem to be any reason to make differences but I found that the social layer as I speak now about New York which I know best is different other places are almost more strictly kept apart than in Europe where the social layers are older the Spanish and everybody knows who is wall. But there are common grounds on which one can meet and it doesn't seem to matter in that sense and society at least in your rather more formal and informal acted alone MSL rather more

freedom but remember once for instance a little say on the quotas where you live it. I remember once vetoed Valley well. Really I must tell you you cannot live in this part of town. That's very sorry I didn't know it was there to get past the question of finances but probably what we should have done was sacrificed the last penny to live in any part of the problem part of which is a thing which you will you know plays no role. Doesn't doesn't matter that you look at the smarter less smart partner but I don't think anybody would think of our marking that very much. Do you finally great distinction between Lee rearing your children in Europe and in the story. Reward Yes I think that is that the Americans of course our very own. Perhaps more hygiene more

food. Mind there is much more careful there look if you eat their babies than we are. Certain own ways of dressing them of course are different but I don't think the result is the end is is so different. The question I think cannot be generalized too easily because our American food is so different it is said it's not everything you get in America is richer. Children need much less. Most Americans complain that our children get too much food but our food is poor right quality and I think that's the land they needed. I wonder if you know that being you know underneath all of this list has more power than those of yours and you certainly sound like Cosmopolitan. Is it true perhaps that you really love Austria and that you can't.

Well we know yourself away from it. I'm off job that certainly can lead away you mustn't leave my husband had decided to remain in America would have perhaps be a little sadder except if I could've come back occasionally. I don't think I would've ever become really a telepath but I think I could manage to live in many many places I've never been. Somebody will suffer. They must repulsiveness even the child that madman one wish was to travel. That mother was always rather shocked at birth and wanted to get away from home in order to come back a thing cause would you confess to being a 150 percent Austrian. No. No I don't think so. Just the look of the natural law from the way I am member of my family and one I'm very critical of last year. Many things are wrong here that I don't

laugh about that I would like to change that could something that I'm trying to change in that small way only they can but that is exactly what I mean that one should stay in one country and then try and change the things one doesn't approve of and not go away to some other country and grouse about them. Of course you find may say seizing the last word here. They're the first Americans have taken your advice and stayed home in their own countries and tried to change the things that they didn't like there. There wouldn't have been a United States of America. Well of course there are always cases where it is perfectly not only of life but the necessity to integrate it for instance and where Geddy another chick today was of choice only of going back to have the curtains placed to cap off the kill.

That I think then it is a writer tool that one should anyway. And after all as you say is Islam existed then people the people who felt that they should open up this new world. But this I said before this is the thinking which must be personally sad you cannot just last. Just as it's I think it's a vocation. Like Going To The Mall or three out of cars and getting that aid of a can you please. Becoming a teacher. Oh everything I think of building up a new country. Thank you very much procuring the. Voices of Europe was produced and recorded in Europe by Milton Mayer in cooperation with the University of Chicago under a grant from the educational television and radio center. This program is distributed by the National Association of educational broadcasters.

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