1998 Kansas Governor's Debate: The Race Is On

See. Project. Funding for this program was made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by annual financial support from viewers like you. Good evening I'm Tracy Townsend and we'd like to welcome you to the special live debate. This will feature candidates running for governor in the state of Kansas. In alphabetical order they are. Incumbent Bill Graves representing the Republican Party from the Reform Party. Darryl King representing the taxpayer party Kirk Poovey and Democrat Tom Sawyer. Joining me on the panel this evening to question the candidates Steve Kresge the political reporter from the Kansas City Star. And Becky Kizer from radio stations K-J LS KKK. He y k f x in Hayes Kansas. He will

answer your questions this evening that were submitted to Casey Petey's special Web site from voters across the state. This broadcast is a co-production of KCET and Johnson County Community College and is being distributed to public television and radio stations throughout Kansas as a co-operative project of the Kansas Public Broadcasting council member stations just a few moments ago. Candidates drew straws to determine their speaking order and before those questions began. We will have opening remarks from each candidate and we will begin tonight with candidate a dale graves. Tracy thank you very much. Thanks for the folks who braved the storm to join us tonight. It's been a great honor for me to have the pleasure of serving not only as governor for the last four years but the eight years prior to that as the secretary of state of Kansas Linda and I and Katie are thoroughly enjoying our service to the people of the state and we obviously hope to continue and ask would ask for your support. We've worked very hard in the first four years of working to control the size of state government but try not to

do so in a manner that impedes the delivery of critical public services to the people of our state. We've worked very diligently on cutting taxes but we've tried to do so in a manner that is fair and provides everyone with some benefit of the great economic stability that we've had in our state and probably the thing that I'm most proud of is that I've worked hard to surround myself with good people and they truly do make a difference. Most notably my lieutenant governor Gary Schir who also serves as the secretary of commerce and housing in the future. We were very committed to the public education system in this system and believe in it's adequate funding very committed to the restructuring of higher education governance in our state working very diligently to add to our already 53 percent reduction of property taxes on vehicles and working on transportation infrastructure. Thank you Mr. GRAVES. Now we will hear from Kurt Poovey. Well thank you for your excuse me for providing this forum so we can debate and let the public know the views of the different candidates for governor. Have many times as left just to the two parties to debate and in reality on most of the issues

Governor Bill Graves and Tom Sawyer are very much along the same lines and their views beliefs. I believe government Prime primary duty is to protect life and that's to protect life not only of the elderly and the handicapped in the disadvantaged but also of the unborn. If we look at the U.S. Constitution the Fifth Amendment it states no person shall be deprived of life liberty or property without due process of law. The Kansas Constitution states under the Kansas Bill of Rights all men are possessed of equal and inalienable natural rights among which are life liberty. Both the US Constitution the Kansas Constitution for claimed the right to life to everyone not just to the privileged privileged few. And so it is definitely one thing that is very important to our party and to me as a candidate and the primary responsibility of government. I also believe that we need to reform the public schools a lot of people looking towards goals 2000 and all those schoolwork things I think we need to go back to local school.

Thank you Mr. Poovey. Will hear from candidates see Darryl King. Thank you very much for inviting me to your forum. I appreciate everybody coming out tonight. Every election year Democrats and Republican politicians promise lower taxes smaller government and more freedom for all Americans after they're elected. It's the opposite. More taxes more gap bigger government and more laws to restrict our freedom. Ask yourself Do I have more freedom and do I pay less taxes than I did five years ago. Right now today in Kansas there's five major ongoing crisis a crisis in agriculture. Low bankrupt prices for farm goods. A crisis in education a lack of learning and discipline. A crisis in transportation where piling grain on the ground like a third world country a crisis in taxes property valuations are rising faster than levees are being lowered a crisis in leadership. Governor Graves has abdicated his role as leader and turned his responsibilities over to commissions. I don't have a glib tongue and a half dozen speechwriters

in a debate coach but I'm not but I'm honest with good common sense and I'll address the ills of Kansas. Thank you. We will now move to our first question for the evening. I'm sorry what was it like to get a candidate so I apologize. It's certainly a pleasure to be here tonight. I'd like to thank the sponsors and all of you who are listening and watching tonight. I'm running for governor because I'm optimistic about the future of Kansas. I believe we have an opportunity to improve the quality of life for all candidates in order to do that. We need a leader who's willing to offer bold new ideas to move this state forward. I want to make the state better for all of us. I want to pass a star scholarship program that would make it easier for working families to send their kids to college. I want real tax relief that families really feel growing up in a family of seven my parents had to work hard to make ends meet. I support the elimination of the sales tax on food. That's the single tax cut that would benefit every Kansan struggling working families and senior citizens would benefit the most. Kansas deserve a governor who will work hard and will take advantage of this national prosperity to improve the quality of life for all Kansans.

Today I will offer some good commonsense ideas that will expand opportunity promote fairness and demand responsibility. I'm no stranger to hard work. I'm Tom Sawyer and I want to be your governor. Thank you Mr. SAWYER. Now we will move to our first question and this evening it comes from Steve Crespi at the Politico at the Kansas City Star. And the question goes to Kurt Poovey. Mr. Poovey one of Tom Sawyer is chief proposals and this campaign is to reduce the size of classrooms a number of students the 17 in the lower grades. He points to studies that he says show that students perform better in a smaller classroom like that. What do you think of a bad idea and is that the way for Kansas to go. Well I think he's correct in that the smaller classrooms that students do provide get better education and that many times they are going to show improvements. The real problem I have with Tom's suggestion is that the state government is going to dictate this. I don't think the state government has any business dictating this if the local school boards

want to do that. I think that's fine that's up to them. That's their responsibility. When you get away from federal control and state control and get back down to the local school boards and let them decide what's best for their own local students. Candidates see Darryl King as governor Oh scuse me but on the wrong one. As governor I would call and all responsible people for for preparing our children with the basic skills necessary for life and give them six months to address the cause of why our children's math science and English scores continue to plummet. I would demand I would demand a return to basics. A change from a social experiment back to our educational experience with discipline so teachers can teach what I call an State Board of Education. The regents school administrators and teachers Representatives if necessary I call them private schools and home schoolers to teach kids how to teach. Thank you. Now we will hear from Tom Sawyer.

Obviously I think it's a good idea since it's my idea but I believe the state of Kansas should set a goal a goal that every child in Kansas sleep a third grade going to read right. Basic math skills a third grade level we could achieve that goal. Those children's chance of succeeding in school and succeeding in life are very good. And one of the best ways to do that is reduce class sizes in the early grades. That's why I proposed a plan that were given scent of the local school districts reduced class sizes. It's not a mandate. School districts will be given extra money to hire additional teachers and build the extra classroom space that would take to reduce class sizes. Finest one of most important things we can do to achieve that goal. The second thing I would do is also start some very intensive adult mentoring programs where we have parents and grandparents volunteering their time to go into the public schools and help those kids that are falling behind so that kids can stay on the right track so that our kids are learning at school that they get the basics down and learn how to read write do basic math skills Mr. Graves smaller classes are certainly something that Kansans have the attempt to do it accomplish over the years and we have an average class size ranging between 8 in our smallest district to 32.

And one of our schools in Wichita the average is currently 17. I believe we should work towards empowering schools financially to be able to make their decisions about what size class is best works for them. I don't believe the state should should require them to do that. I think it is important to remember that along with a mandate from the state that there would be smaller classroom sizes in and in effect implies that you must also find additional class space which is also a financial burden for many many districts. I think also one thing we have to be cautious of is remembering that many districts have already figured out how to effectively have smaller classroom sizes. And in some ways to now reward those who have chosen not to for whatever reason at the expense of those who have figured out how to get it done to me seems somewhat unfair. And I must say from my experience with the legislature is not likely to be something that those who already have a classroom size at 17 or lower or are going to very willingly go along with OK we will allow that little two minute time here for any rebuttal from the candidates. Yes I'd like to point out that my proposal that we introduced last session was an incentive for

school districts provided extra money for those districts that reduced class sizes but it also provided extra money for those who have already done it. So we're not penalizing districts that have already reduced class sizes. We're awarding those districts have already reduced class sizes and encouraging those who haven't already because I believe reducing class size is one of the best things we can do to improve education a kindergarten first second and third grade. I believe that the best thing you can do to help education is to give the teachers control of their classroom and get the backing of the administration and give local control back to those people the school board and let them decide what class sizes they want for their children not have dictates like goals 2000 and school to come down from the federal government and then be dictated from the state government. We need to get back to the local control and they can decide if 17 is the magic number or maybe eight is the magic. And I would only comment that we have worked very diligently the last four years to try to enhance based budget per pupil at risk weighting factors correlation weighting factors money for special ed to empower districts financially to make these kinds of decisions and I would continue to attempt to do that in the next four years.

MR. I believe they should have smaller less children in classrooms. I also think there's there's a lot of courses that are subject that kids are allowed to take to help them slide through school and it doesn't really contribute to their livelihood or the way they're going to go there to live. I think if we allow those Lemonick those courses that would free up teachers and classroom space and money to smaller classes who will now move to our next question which comes from Hayse Reporter Becky Keizer and we will have candidate Darrell King answer first. Mr. King I'd like to start by talking about rural transportation needs especially in western Kansas where the spaces are wide open. There has of course been some opportunity for communities and for citizens to comment about their need throughout the state. But in the western part of the state there is a real concern about the status of municipal airports as well as across the rest of Kansas and also the condition of many of our roads and highways which are much needed to get from town to town out there. If you're elected governor what do you see as some of the biggest concerns for the transportation needs in the western half of the state. And how would that be

financed. Well Governor Graves has created this by promoting the railroad mergers that eliminated competition and responsibility for service. As governor I will not allow him a lot monopoly's to return to the transportation system to third world status. I would call railroad and green cartels and demand prompt service to shippers or make them wish they had never laid track across Kansas as governor up in an astronaut's national spotlight on them. I'll also set up an 800 number line for governors and governor's office so the farmers can call and report any problems. I would instruct the Department of Transportation to do a safety analysis of Rex and that this would be a basis for property and highway construction rather than the past manage debacle of spending tens of millions of dollars to Feather. Senate President Dick Bon's finance when asked at NASCAR how will we hear from Tom Sawyer. I strongly support a new transportation program that needs to be comprehensive and needs to include rural airports as well as highways needs include rail transportation needs to be a comprehensive plan.

I also think to get a pass is going to take leadership from a governor we need the governors moving to be active to get it passed the last highway plan was introduced in 1987 to 1989 to get it passed. So we need a government willing to work hard and get involved with the legislature to make it happen and I intend to do that if I'm elected governor I will sit down with legislative leadership right after the election to try to start it start hammering out a new highway kind of we can get past during the next session Thank you. Now we will hear from Bill Graves and Becky as you know we have had a task force that's had a number of very productive meetings and I'm confident we're going to have a comprehensive plan. What is yet to be determined is you know the scope of the plan and how the funding will occur. We've obviously had a lot of success as a result of the eight year comprehensive plan passed under Governor Governor Haden's leadership. I obviously want to continue the highway and bridge upgrades and replacement those are critically important. But I think in the rule area one of the things we've heard a lot from is our seniors who depend upon grants and sort of states and federal or state subsidies provide Van's ways for them to get to senior centers for health care

services. And I think one of the things we heard a great deal from in our in our hearings around the state was is that they would like to have that program enhanced. And I think that it will be. And relative to airports the state of Kansas has done a very poor job of supplementing local units of government in their needs for resurfacing and upgrading airports in with for a very small amount of money in the whole context of billions of dollars of transportation money for probably 30 or 40 million dollars. We can do a great deal for our rural airports. Your thoughts Mr. Poovey Governor Graves is right he does have a task force out there running across the stage called transportation 2000 committee and they are looking at what needs to be done to further improve our infrastructure and our highways. I think that is important. One thing out there that is being buried apparently is the fact that along with that plan is the plan to increase taxes to fund that. And I might point out that we're spending $900 billion a year right now to improve our highways and that's going to continue to be funded. And we also through a large pork barrel project that was put through the federal government on a highway plan. Virtually everybody everywhere

in every state got lots of money. Kansas is going to $1.8 billion over the next six years for highway construction that comes up to be three hundred five million dollars every year in addition over that $900 billion dollars. I think we can improve more of what we've got right now or we could actually stay at the same level of $900 million and we could actually cut taxes as to the Kansans by 300 million dollars. So I that we definitely need to do that especially out in Garden City Dodge City areas where they've got much increased industry and the transportation is not as good as it needs to be. There are lots of areas that do need increased transportation concern have concerns. Thank you. Now gentlemen your opportunity for rebuttal. I don't believe we need to raise taxes to pay for new roads. I think we need to quit resurfacing roads that don't need to be resurfaced. Not a thing of if you sat and watched any highway project most of the time you have five people working and five people standing watching. We need to stop that by buying companies that don't get projects done on time and

rewarding companies that do finish on time. I would also make it a top priority to spend any savings on to repair our fixed Canada's most dangerous roads. I would only add that that the fact that the federal government has has through the reauthorization of surface transportation given us in a 306 million dollars a year for six years. I'd like to point out that if you can extrapolate that into an eight year sum which you would hope would be extended in year 7 or 8 that's $2.4 billion. My belief is is that that federal money in addition to state dollars that are available will create a fairly substantial pool. Let's just say it's in the $3 billion range I think until we do an assessment of our needs and we get a sense of what the Kansas legislature will bite off. It is premature to suggest we will or we won't raise taxes. And what we may want to fund. I think we're going to have another $3 billion plus plan. I think we can afford it without a tax increase. I just like to point out we keep time on the federal dollars we're getting a 306 million a year but to use those we have to have matching state dollars. So we have to put a substantial amount of state money just to use the federal dollars.

So I think we want to be honest with taxpayers that we're Time out a very large comprehensive highway plan that includes rural airports that includes senior transportation includes all of these things then odds are pretty good they'll be some type of tax increase. Now my belief is they relate to tax increases like gas taxes and those kinds of things. But I do not believe we be right Frank with voters we can tell them we can have a very comprehensive plan we go across the state and get all these needs. And it probably won't be a tax increase. I think that we need to be frank and honest with people. So I had 10 seconds. I would I would say that we have to say no we're not going to go on a tax increase. We're going to do with existing monies and the federal monies that are coming to us. It can be done. It should be done. All right well now move on to our next question which comes from a visitor to the KCET Democracy Project Web site and the viewer asks Are tax cuts justified if they result in cuts or elimination of important programs. And the first candidate to answer this question will be Tom Sawyer.

I think we need to provide a balance between tax cuts and programs and I think it's important that we make education on government education to be our top priority. We need to set that goal that every child in Kansas if a third grade don't read write and do basic math skills we need to make sure we fund our schools. That's got to be the top priority. I don't believe we need that we should cut taxes if it means cutting education. I do believe though that tax cuts ought to be a priority. They need to be fair tax cuts tax cuts that are geared towards working families. We'll tax relief like elimination of the sales tax on food. I mean that's a tax cut that would benefit every single solitary Kansan for their car tax cuts. Those are the kind of tax cuts we need when we do cut taxes. Well you've got to make sure we have our priorities straight. I need to make sure that education is our top priority. Now we work on ways to improve our schools first and once we do those things we can take a look at what money is available for tax cuts. OK now we will hear from Bill Graves. Well I think the simple answer is no tax cuts can be justified if they do result in cuts in BASIC programs. Fortunately that hasn't been the case in Kansas. In fact the base budget over the last four years has seen what I think is a responsible amount

of growth probably in the neighborhood of between 2 and 4 percent each year keeping in mind that a great deal of the growth in the state budget has been attributable to our attempts to buy down the property tax that uniform levy for schools. I think we push the envelope hard and far in the last session of $250 billion. I think we're going to have to slow down a little bit and assess where we are as we move into the next legislative session. Clearly education week we put about $120 billion of new funding into it in addition to the property tax relief money. We have a number of issues facing us now in terms of manpower in the areas of monitoring nursing homes can find feeding operations food processing restaurants. There's all kinds of areas where Kansans like tax cuts and the like budgets that are responsible but they also like to understand that they are getting a level of service that has they have some comfort level with it is responding to their needs. And I think we may have reached that point for that debate. We look now to carpooling.

Well I definitely would have to agree education is very important. But the thing that you know we talk about putting more money into education and yet we're talking about state money and federal money because we have a crisis in education. Four years ago before the state and federal governments got involved so heavily one is on the local level we didn't have that crisis in education. We produce good students that were the tops in the world that did great. Maybe we should look and say Whoops maybe we screwed up when we left the local level control. And I think we have to say no we don't have to cut essential funds and still can't have money to cut taxes. There's plenty of room to cut taxes. We just need to look closely where those are many services that are provided by the state used to be done on a local level. And they many times are much better done at the local level where local people know those concerns and the needs of those people there and their community and can better serve them there in their local communities think in the state or the federal government. And that's one thing we need to go back to is more of the constitutional government that we used to have. Thank you.

Now Darrell King Bill Graves and Tom saw your book claim they cut taxes. Well that frog won't hop they passed and signed the largest state budget in Kansas 137 year history. Over eight billion dollars. The answer to your question is no we don't have to cut important programs and to lower taxes. As governor I would cut the budget by 2 percent a year for the next eight years. I have a present a plan that will generate all property tax. I will do this without cutting any important programs. Thank you and now you have an opportunity for rebuttal a total of two minutes. I would only say again I think that in my experience in state government both as a sector of state as a governor you see the pendulum sort of swing back and forth and I believe that right now the legislature is looking at a number of programs and we're asking ourselves all we are we providing an adequate amount of funding whether it's for personnel for data processing programs whatever it might be. Obviously there's an oversight responsibility for actions of the administrative branch. But but I think right now there are a number of areas where we're going to look hard and see if we haven't pushed the envelope too far in restricting state services to our citizens.

Anyone else. Yeah right now we are in a period of national prosperity and we need to take advantage of that and one of the things this allows us to do we have a record budget surplus last year and that allows us to cut taxes as well as fund programs. I believe one of missed opportunities the last session was eliminate the sales tax on food. As the governor mentioned we cut taxes $250 billion last session and that grossed a $330 million a year each year thereafter for $239 for $230 million. We could totally eliminate the sales tax on food. And that's a tax cut that would have benefit every single solitary Kansan. We always in particular would have benefits struggling working families and senior citizens the most and those are the kind of tax cuts we need. I think we can look to other areas. You know I remember when they came up with a welfare program changing it and I said oh my gosh how these people are going to be in such terrible straits because the government's not funding all these people on welfare. I just read this story just the other day which said that these people have worked they've found jobs and what they have found is that they're actually making more on an hourly rate than what they expected that they're going to make. And so we have to realize that there is potential to reduce what the status is

spending money on and put it back to a local level and give the power back to the people so that people can determine what's best needed in their communities and what works best for them for those people there. Take as much state money on bureaucratic bureaucratic stuff and turn it back to the local communities where they can work better with the local people. We have about 30 seconds left in the rebuttal period. My only comment would be that every year when I brought in a budget the conservative Kansas legislature has managed to spend more than I have proposed by year end. And it's one thing to talk about it it's another thing when you get in the legislative process to get people to agree to actually cut a budget or to not provide for some growth into what people believe are fundamental basic government services and they're all trying to get re-elected. Thank you. Now on to our next question which comes from Steve Kresge and goes first to Belgrade's. Governor as you know the biggest criticism that's been lodged against you during the primary and also during the general election campaign is a sense that you've been a status quo type of governor a

few new initiatives few daring proposals take a whack at that. Why is that not a fair criticism of your first term Well I think Steve you know have we not done a spectacular Grand Slam kind of program. I don't know maybe not but I happen to think after three years in the previous administration of no enhancement based budget per pupil the kind of support you've seen for public education is pretty solid record that I'm proud of. We've cut taxes every year for four years that's never happened in the history of this state. And as you know it's sort of having a multiplier effect over multiple years. But it's billions of dollars in terms of what Kansans don't pay to state government. Some of the smaller things. $170 billion to repair classrooms that are Regence universities and make them accessible in terms of ACA safe in terms of fire. I mean that's critically important to higher education. We've been neglecting our park system for 30 years for the first time. We've got $10 million to go in and rebuild the infrastructure of our state parks. The fact that I was the first governor maybe in history that that actually used a lieutenant governor for

Sheila from a sector of administration and now Gary shear as secretary of commerce and housing. The record may not have that kind of you know one time you know magnificent kind of effect but it's been very solid very stable government and I think Kansans have responded to it. And now we will hear from Kirk moving. Well I think Bill has done a good job in managing the government. I said four years ago when I ran in the Republican primary against him that he would make a good manager. I think the referral that was alluded to was the fact that the bill doesn't claim to have a lot of the vision for Kansas which is where we should go and that's one thing that I feel that I have that I can offer is I have a vision as to where I feel that Kansas needs to be headed. I feel that economically we may be headed in a good direction even though I think fundamentally there's a lot of weakness in that economy and also on the world economy which is coming to bear upon us very quickly. Well I think we need to look at is if you look at our social structure our moral structure we are on the verge of collapse in the United States and also in Kansas. We need to work

to lead in a direction to rebuild that and build it back up and the economy will fall on its own. Because if the economy is good and your son or daughter gets murdered what good is the economy. Let's go with getting back on track the way we need to be going and the economy will follow along here regardless. Either way. All right thank you Mr. King. One thing I will say is that Bill says he's cut taxes for the last four years and that may be true. But nevertheless the property values keep going up. So it has a reverse effect. I had a friend call me the other night that said his property had increased the property value has increased 100 percent from last year. So he's paying a lot more taxes. And now the fourth candidate Tom Sawyer Yeah if you look at what's happened the last four years has been legislatively driven. You know Governor mentions of tax cuts is the legislature that drove those tax cuts. I think the problem with Bill Graves is the only criticism Roy had in the last four years is

the fact that he has been a standstill governor he hasn't gotten involved enough he hasn't offered bold new ideas. And we're in a period of national prosperity right now. This is our opportunity to improve the quality of life for all Kansans. You can't improve things when you're in recession a recession you're just trying to keep your head above water. This is our opportunity to make things better. And we need a governor who will be a leader who has some vision and to move the state forward and be willing to improve education by setting a goal that every child in Kansas City but Greg got to read write and do basic math skills. Governor we want to use our lottery dollars for college scholarships to make it easier for Kansans to send their kids to college. A governor would be willing to provide real tax relief like elimination of the sales tax on food. The governor would be willing to pay our debts off now and the good times and the bad times do come we don't have to raise taxes or cut programs. We need a governor with some vision. And that's why I think Governor has been criticized for being a standstill governor because he hasn't had that vision. And now on two minute time for rebuttal. Well obviously since it's three on one thing you can only encourage people that take this charge very seriously to go read the four state of the states that we presented and see what we've asked for in those in those state of the state messages and what's been accomplished.

And I would say to Darrell let's keep in mind property tax is the number one consumer of property taxes as county government the number two consumer property taxes the city government the number three consumer property taxes local school district making capital improvement investments or whatever the state of Kansas by virtue of eliminating for 20 25 30 35 to 20 mills. We we are one of the smaller consumers of property tax dollars. I agree. We need to do something about property taxes. But but the issue is not one where we're the biggest. The state has the burden the people that are depending on property taxes are local units and that's because we've historically forced them into that box. I agree there needs to be something done. The legislature is going to have to unshackle their hands and give them some other options as opposed to only one option which is property tax. What else this it makes no difference where it comes from governorates all taxes. I like to say you know but it supports basic fundamental government services at the local level. You've got to pay for them somehow. I say opportunely the last four years to work with the governor and a lot of things he talks about. We worked well together to get those

things done. I just think we have a really golden opportunity right now because we aren't as part of national prosper. We had this large budget surplus and we could be doing so much more if we had a governor that had some vision and set some major goals like improving our schools and and provide and make it easier for families to send their kids to college I think that's what we're lacking right now. I want to point out that I'm not against Bill I just like I said I think he's done a good job managing. But I think it's the lack of the vision of directing in the ways that I see that we really need to go into social areas. And I keep hearing from from Tom and Bill this is what we can do that the government can do either the governor or the the state legislature keep here and state legislatures state legislature Governor this is what I'm going to do for Kansans. This is what I'm going to do. Why don't we give the power back to the people back to the Kansans themselves and let them do it for themselves. It's the way it used to be before government came in and became so big and wanted to do everything for us. Let's let's quit saying government. What are you going to do for me. And let's say this is what I can do to help us. Well now we have to go to our next question which comes from Betty Keizer and Kurt Poovey will answer

first. Mr. Poovey we've been talking about the relative healthy economy been in Western Kansas real concern about low commodity prices. Also as you probably are aware a very acute shortage you have storage space. We have we've been fortunate in that we've had very large wheat harvest in and anticipated large Mylo harvest as well that elevators are full. It's been dumped on the ground there's no place for the incoming Mylo. What can the state do to help the sagging prices of the commodities. And is there a solution to the lack of storage space. Well I might point out that I live on a hundred sixty acres and I have a little over a hundred acres of tillable land so I know a little bit about it. We just sold some soybeans when they went to all of it because there was no way to do it other than social media. There is no storage available. There's Mylo there's no storage you got to sell it then or a little bit later on the contract. Why is it happening. What's happened. We've had record profits but also because of NAFTA and get these other great federal programs we have Canada coming in and they are dumping

grain in the United States it's depressing our prices and our farmers are hurting because also the cattle you know they're dumping cattle in here. Well as a as a state we're really restricted by what we can do on a national level of a federal level out with a nation that's actually the federal government's responsibility if we look at what the Constitution says. But what we need to do as a governor we need to get with other governors of those states Nebraska South Dakota North Dakota and other ones and go to the federal government say this is what we need to do to stop this problem get rid out of NAFTA again. And now we will hear from Mr. King as governor declared a statewide disaster and use my office to direct a remedy for this horrendous economic Nicolae that threatens the future security of this nation. Why does everyone involved with food make money except the farmer food monopolies must go. I will draw the national spotlight of Shame on meat and grain cartels economic rape of our family farmers and producers. I will take the leadership role in promoting 90 percent of parity

legislation in the summer that Congress enacted back in 1941 to 1952. Out and expose this insanity of importing beef pork and grain into the United States and issue an executive order banning these foreign products into Kansas. Remember that less than 1 percent of imported food is inspected. Why penalize American producers with unfair standards. We need to support family farm because it's the only system that will ensure we have the economy economic and social structure that will commit to future food and fiber needs of the planet and provide a quality of life that we all expect and we all deserve. Thank you and now we will hear from Tom Sawyer. I think we need more aggressive in marketing our products I think we need a governor who'll be aggressive in market our products abroad. I think we need to work with our congressional delegation delegation to improve the Freedom to Farm Act to keep the parts that are good like the flexibility that allows farmers to grow the crops that are most profitable to them but provide a safety net so when crop prices drop they don't go out of business in terms of the grain storage problem I think in the short run we can use ground storage. But in the long run we need to provide some incentives that

increase the amount of grain storage available. We can buy down the property taxes on elevators in rural Michigan to quibble over income tax credits we can give income tax credits to farmers who invest in greenbacks and we can give railroads an elevator operator to upgrade their equipment a sales tax break on their labor so those are some of the things we can do to in the long run to keep this problem from happening in the future. OK. Mr. Graves Becky obviously our dilemma is is that we have farmers who are just the best in the world at what they do and they are out producing our ability to consume as a domestic market and certainly producing what is being demanded in the foreign markets. Obviously much of the problem lies with much of the challenge lies with the federal government figuring out how to help us open up those foreign markets and market those goods. I think one area that I'd like to to encourage the federal government to look at is enhancements to our CERP program. I think it would be good for Kansas farmers for two reasons one because it's environmentally sound. It Idylls acres and allows them to be used for wildlife habitat and as you probably know we have seen some great economic development in western Kansas as well. People who love to come and pay substantial

dollars to hunt are pheasant and quail and be part of the the hunting experience in Kansas. But it's also good because it then it has some impact on production in terms of idling those acres. Is it the whole solution. No but I'd love to see C R D enhanced. I concur with Tom. We obviously need some kind of incentives in terms of tax credits something so that we will update our infrastructure. We've got fifty's infrastructure trying to store that grain that's being produced today and we just can't do it. And now we're left on the floor for rebuttal. But I do agree with Tom when he said that we need to develop new markets for growth and I think that we definitely do that. There's been trade trips have been taken before to countries to develop those markets. I think that's a good idea. Something the governor can do or task force that he sets up. I disagree with the safety net idea and I disagree with both Governor Graves and Tom's solution of the government giving tax credits and incentives. This is a business for credit. I run a business myself. Nobody gives me a safety net nobody gives me a guarantee. Farmers need to start learning and that's what the far from the farm act is about how to live as

free as the federal government instead of being tied directly to them. If we will say OK I'm going to wean myself from the federal government. I don't have to have all this support from them. All these things that they're giving me this money and I can farm the way I want to. Maybe they have to go work at another jobs report. That's what my dad did years ago when I was growing up. You had to go work for the state highway department so he could do the farming also because he couldn't make the money on it. But the thing is it's that's better than going and saying fellow government save me be my savior let's be our own people let's do our own work and quit relying upon the federal government and the state governments for everything. OK. Mr. King thank you. I would ask Tom Sawyer who's going to buy all of our grain and beef and stuff to reproduce every time we sell some to a foreign country. We have to loan him the money to buy it. And then they don't repay the loan. And the American taxpayer winds up paying for it. And as far as our farmers being good farmers we do have good farmers and ranchers here in Kansas but they didn't produce a surplus. We import about 18 percent of beef pork and grain into the state again is importing beef in

that step into Kansas where it's creating a surplus to farmers didn't do it. Our government done it to us with laughter. OK anyone else short time left. I would only point out that we just had an announcement in the last 24 hours or so of the Taiwanese who bought for cash millions of bushels of hard red winter wheat. They've been one of our great trading partners for many years and it's not being paid for with loan us dollar. I'd like to say that didn't that did the IMF just loan them about 40 or 50 billion dollars just about less than a year ago. I just like to point out that our farmers are at a competitive disadvantage you know they're competing with foreign farmers were the European farmers are heavily subsidized and our farmers also there are thousands of farmers out there in the people who buy their products or are few. There's a few number of people buying the product so they're not in a competitive it's not a level playing field. Terms of competition so that's why I think it's up to us to make sure that farmers can stay in business and I think it's it's benefits entire people Kansas family farmers stay in business and I think we ought to do what we can to help our family farmers. We need to move now to our next question which comes from the KCET Web site. The question

is should tax breaks and other financial incentives be used to lure new businesses to Kansas. Darryl King has the first answer. Thank you. I think it's funny that we know when we're going to give the mother money or has children money welfare money or whatever we call it welfare and then we give farmers money. We call it a subsidy. And then we give all these big companies to come into Kansas. They call it economical development. So I don't think we should offer them tax anymore. I think we ought to educate our people and train our people. So we have a good work workforce here in Kansas we lower our tax base where they don't have to pay a huge amount of taxes. And I think that business will come in. Hey you got out to Tom Sawyer. I believe we do need to change the way we use our economic development dollars. I believe some incentives are probably good we have to because other states are doing it but I think the major focus of our economic development I'll be on a well trained well educated workforce like to just change the way we use a lot of dollars. I'd like to see us use a lot of dollars for college scholarships and reward those students who work hard and high school so that every

student in Kansas gets a B average or better and high school tuition free to any of our community colleges. Vo-Tech schools a four year institutions in Kansas and pay for the lottery dollars I call it the star scholarship program starts with cost $42 million a year. The lottery only raised $60 billion a year so we could easily afford stars that still have some money left over for other programs. Stars is based on a very successful program they've had in Georgia for five years. In Georgia it's called the Hope Scholarship Program and Georgia Works the same way that use or lobby dollars for college scholarships. Has been a big success. There's been a big economic development two of what and I've been able to recruit a lot of companies to come to Georgia because of their scholarship program. It's worked in Georgia and work in Kansas. I believe we have a $5 star scholarship program. Bill Graves your answer obviously the question is should we. Should we provide those kinds of incentives those kinds of subsidies for for companies and the answer is yes of course it is something we must do if we're to compete with the other 49 states in this in this country and surrounding countries. We've seen a tremendous success in Kansas over the last 12 years as a result of the focus of economic development initiatives fun as

you probably know we're experiencing the lowest unemployment in 30 years as a result of this strong economy we've been able to provide jobs for many Kansans who heretofore did not have a work experience. Our welfare rolls are down over 50 percent. I believe it has been one of the very wise moves that was made a dozen years ago by the Kansas legislature and the governor Governor Carland governor Hayden and I believe very much that to the extent we have a debate on additional dollars above the $14 billion we already put in for scholarships that that debate should come relative to the state general fund and not robing critical economic development dollars that have been the basis for this economic success we're enjoying carpooling. What we're looking at ways to bring business into Kansas so that we can benefit from it. On August 31st governor grave's tax review committee met in Topeka and listen to a proposal by Bob Corkins of the Kansas Public Policy Institute to phase down the state's income tax eventually eliminated. I know this is a bold proposal but a wise one. And if you look currently nine states do

not have any state income taxes according to academic studies these states without state income taxes are enjoying much faster economic growth in states like Kansas and have income taxes. Texas and Florida are two of these. No income tax states and it would appear that Kansas seems to be losing business from Wichita and other large metropolitan areas to those states. If we want to bring business to the state what we need to do is have low taxes because that's what they want. We also need to be able to bring them to an environment where they can have a good moral structure. They look for that also. You know I heard years ago when we're getting a lottery and gambling and liquor by the drink we've got to have this for business. Business did not go based upon those things. Business goes based upon what type of services the local community provides. And now an opportunity for rebuttal. Well I would generally mention that I've heard three proposals. Darrell basically advocates we pretty much get rid of property taxes Kurt that we get rid of income taxes and Tom that we 200 250 million

dollars with a sales tax at some point. Again if we're going to go back to the original question or one of the original questions about a central government services there has to be a way to pay for them. Kansas has always worked hard to kind of create the three legged school stool in terms of revenues. We've tried to have a balance between property tax sales tax and income tax. And we tried to acknowledge the concerns about the property tax with the uniform Levy reduction. We still have to figure out how to do the assessed valuation creep that that irritates so many people. We've done some income tax reductions in this past tax package. I think targeting sales tax relief and food like we've done with the with the rebate program that makes the most sense anyone else but I like to say that we have. We aren't a part of national prosperity right now. And one reason the state has done well is because of the national economy is doing more. You know rising rates rising rates rising tide raises all boats. But if you look at our economic growth compared to our neighbors if you look at our region one of the 10 cities 10 state north central region we are the last of economic growth. I believe we need to refocus our economic development efforts and focus them on a

better educated better educated workforce. You know I mean for example one company Newtek a company out of Topeka Kansas it's a homegrown company and they end up moving to Houston Texas because they cannot get enough skilled workers in Kansas and when they left they gave a very scathing report of our economic development effort and we need to focus more on getting skilled workers and that's what the star scholarship program will do. So I think we also need to look at the fact that lower taxes are going to bring those businesses in. You have the lower taxes you have a bigger economic base with more jobs there's more money and more products that that are being purchased in the economy if you go to the people that look at what the impact of a business community or tourist dollars or whatever they talk about how many times that money is spent over and over to bring in more money in to that economy and it benefits the local economy and the state economy. And I think that we can cut income taxes. I think we can get rid of the income taxes and we can also bring business into the state and benefit the state. One more question now from our Web site. Do you support the proposed voucher

system and what impact do you think it would have on the public school system. Tom Sawyer and you will have the first answer. No I don't. I think we need to concentrate on ways to improve our public schools first and I believe we should set the goal that every child in Kansas. A third grade going to read write for basic math skills by the third grade level to help achieve that goal that we need to do a couple of things. First of all we need to reduce class sizes in the early grades so that will give incentives to school districts reduce class sizes that no child in Kansas and kindergarten first second or third grade will be in a classroom Arjun's 17 kids. Second thing I do is start a very intensive adult mentoring program we get adult volunteers to come into the schools and work with those kids that are falling behind. We need to make our public schools better. My fear is with the voucher system because it will take too many dollars away from the public schools just to pay for all the kids that are already in private schools. We had vouchers would cost $250 billion a year. Right now we have to work on making our public schools better make them the best possible we can before we look at draining money away from the public school system. We go now to Bill grades for answer to this question.

No I don't support vouchers. I think that Kansas should though however be more flexible and are in charter school and in the charter schools we have not done aggressively enough pursue charter schools. I believe that investing early on in early childhood development is critically important in in setting the stage for for our children when they enter the public education system. That's why we've done a lot in the area of early Head Start. Head Start Parents as Teachers. Quite frankly the key the report lately on Kansas progress in our education system is very encouraging in terms of what's happening across the country some of the Kansas test scores have been up. We have a large number of students proportionately relative to other states who are actually taking some of the national test and they continue to score well and show improvement in those areas. I think quite frankly at this point what we're looking for is some strong signs from the State Board of Education that they can put their political differences behind them and effectively be an advocate for what's delivered in the classroom in public education. And I think if we can do that we won't see a need for vouchers in our state.

Your thoughts on vouchers. Mr. Poovey I think that we ought to give the people the choice is the way our present school system is set up to decide which school they do want to go to if you want to start off by not having the private schools involved because the 250 million dollars it would cost to do that that's fine but let's let the at least the public schools to start with those those parents decide where they want their students to go. Why not give them a choice if they you know that helps the poor out the most. The Democratic Party is supposed to be for the poor and yet they are against vouchers. This is going to help the poorest people the most. Let them choose the schools they're the rich people saying I'm going to send them to a private school. The poor don't have that choice. I think they ought to have a choice especially in the public schools. It comes back down also to the local schools is going to decide what's best for those students and then the teachers have to know they're going to work to have a good school. The local school boards are to get those students coming in. I keep hearing Tom talk about third grade level Let's be able do stuff. Why wait till the third grade. Years ago they could do it in the first grade. You know why have to wait until the third grade level. Let's let's get back to local control of schools.

And I think we'll find that we don't have to have the voucher system pay and now Mr. King your thoughts. I'm for working out a plan to make the public schools work better also. But I would support a test program using vouchers to see if we could do a better job that way somehow or other we have got to figure out. How to educate educate our kids better. And so I would support a test program as far as vouchers is concerned. OK. Thank you. And now we have a short period for rebuttal. I would only comment that vouchers is a subject every year in the Kansas legislature and I don't believe it's gotten out of a of a committee hearing yet with a favorable vote. And what else I would say is that they should give it a try because in many states it has happened it's worked quite well. There are of course unfortunately strings attached when the state gives those of the federal government Nasserism private schools should be concerned about taking vouchers. But in the public school give the people a choice let them decide which schools best and let them have it. I mean I keep hearing let's have choice on when we come to abortion but when it comes to vouchers there's no choice. Why

not choice there also. We currently have choice in the current system we have some very good private schools. If people choose to send our kids there they can but we also need to have a very solid public school system that serves everybody. And we need to make sure our school public schools are the best they can be and that's what we need to set a goal that every child and can get the basics down. Kindergarten first second third grade reduce class sizes and make sure they learn the basics. I think that's extremely poor. I think it's our responsibility as a governor as a government to make sure we have the best possible public schools and we need to do that and taking 250 million dollars out of the system for vouchers would make that very difficult to do. I I used to teach my wife's a teacher my sister's a teacher my brother is a teacher and I'm here to tell you that they're fearful some of them because of what they've heard about vouchers but it doesn't have to be that way in fact now my brother is for vouchers and my wife too because it gives him a choice. I think we need to give them a choice. If you don't include private schools it doesn't take 250 million dollars out of it. I support public school choice by the way. No problem with that. About 30 seconds. Anybody now. OK.

But now we will move on to our closing remarks and the candidates also drew straws to determine the order of these remarks. And first we will hear from Tom Sawyer. Thank you. I'm very hopeful about the future. Kansas. Kansas has a wealth of opportunity available if we only reach out and grasp it. We need to seize the moment. We need a governor who has wanted to take advantage of this national prosperity to improve the quality of life for all Kansans. I offer the people of Kansas a vision a vision that gives every Kansan the opportunity to live out their dreams and achieve their God given potential vision which every child in Kansas leaves a great deal to read right into basic math skills. The vision of working families can send their kids to college. A vision we have a simpler fair tax system for both Kansas Get real tax relief like elimination of the sales tax on food. A vision where a canvas environment is protected from these large out of state hog factories that are here today and gone tomorrow. A vision where doctors and patients make healthcare decisions again and not insurance company bureaucrats. A vision what the can't. The state of Kansas pays its debts now in the good times and the bad times do come. We don't have to raise taxes or cut programs. I'm Tom Sawyer. I

offer a vision for the future. I want to be your governor and I appreciate your vote on November 3rd. And now we will hear from carpet movie I think that we need to return to a constitutional government not only on the federal level but also on the state level. This is very important that we do this because right now we're not operating that way and is causing severe problems. If we were turned to constitutional government we can have lower taxes we can get rid of the IRS. We can do so many of these things on our own that I hear all the other candidates talking about life liberty family and probably are best protected when local government is the primary governmental body that affects the individual and the federal government is the least likely to affect the individual. By the way that pretty much excludes the United Nations. And one thing I want to point out is that don't let the pundits decide who you vote for. Don't let the media don't let the party say all. Bill Graves Tom sorry. The only possible ones have a chance of winning. Vote your conscience. You decide who's best candidate that you want that will support what you want and you vote for them. You're upset because your conservative candidates didn't vote the way you wanted them to because this

is the best we can do. Now they're saying the best you can do is Bill Graves or Tom so I say you've got a choice. You've got to be on the taxpayers party and you can vote for me and I will follow the Constitution follow all principles because we go on principles not politics. That's what we're about. We have seven non-negotiable principles we will stand by those. Life is one of total protection of life. That's a primary responsibility of the government. Thank you. Now we will hear from Bill Graves. Tracy Steve becke thank you very much. Since I became governor there's a new factor that drives my vision of my goals and objectives as governor. And I refer to it as a Kaytee factor. We have a much different perspective now. We have a three year old child in our life. I believe very passionately and making sure we have adequate health care for children that's why we put the new health care initiative in place for uninsured Kansas children. We need to make sure that system works and reach out to families seeking to take advantage of them. We need to do our best to encourage daycare opportunities for parents so they can work and break the cycle of

welfare. We need to do more in the area of early childhood development we've made some starts with early Head Start parents as teachers. But we can do more public safety in the area of immunisations child safety seats. Those areas are critically important to be anchored by a strong public education system as I said at the outset. I'm firmly committed to our public education system and its funding. I want to work to eliminate property taxes on automobiles. I am committed to ushering in a new transportation infrastructure program for the next century. And I'm very committed to make sure we put once and for all the issue of reforming higher education behind us in this state. I would appreciate your support in November. Thank you. Thank you and now we will hear from Darrell King. Thank you. I'd like to thank everybody again also for being here tonight. The last four years of state and national politics has clearly indicated that Democrats and Republicans are incapable of solving urgent economic environmental and educational needs of Kansas and his nation. I would ask Tom Sawyer and Bill Graves who have been in politics many many years where your vision has been all these years.

We need a third force to Paradip provide a catalyst of leadership integrity and courage to provide a positive change. So desperate needed by all candidates and all Americans the Reform Party opera says is that opportunity. One thing I would ask you to consider if you want true reform you have to cast a reform but we can't keep voting for Republicans and Democrats and expect to get reform. I will ask you again do you have more freedom and pay less taxes than you did five years ago. If your answer is no then I asked you to cast your vote for reform and help build a reform party to a third force. I referred to earlier out of pressure Frechette your vote in November. Thank you and on behalf of everyone involved in our debate this evening I would like to extend thanks. First of all to the candidates for your participation tonight. Republican candidate Bill Graves reform party candidate Darrell King taxpayer party candidate Kurt Poovey and Democratic candidate Tom Sawyer. And my thanks to the journalists who join me

this evening on the panel Steve Kroft from the Kansas City Star and Betty Kizer from K-J Alaska KKK Y and K F X and Hayes on your FM dial. And most of all thank you to you for watching. I'm Tracy Townsend and we hope you have a wonderful evening. Thanks. Funding for this program was made possible by the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and by

annual financial support from viewers like you. Know