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In. A. Thanks. From. One. Sunday and some back. Here. Creating a sure way to.
See the. Issues fish team in. One. Sunday human creation. Me me. And Janice Adams and welcome to the world of women. Tonight Kim Hughes a poet with our guest song new song chance. For you to call.
I've.
Found. It's going to be here with you sister Janice. A song about George. Is it very far to Alabama. I doubt it. It's like sometimes you hear people you know people say where you're from I instinctively say I'm from New York but then people say well where are you really from. And most people say well I'm really from Georgia or I'm really from Alabama. You know so it's the same kind of place and they are pretty close together. We've given the show tonight a Title 10 years a poet. And before you read for us if you will. I'd like to have you tell the audience something about coming and the transition. So new sound cheers from Alabama to New York and beyond that even to China last year. Right. I understand what you meant by saying 10
years. A poet. But if you understand people who write poetry it's a lifetime of poetry. It's a time from writing poetry as a child or as a child I studied art as a consequence I wrote poetry. I started to write because quite often people didn't understand what you were saying people have no patients with stutterers if you can understand that. So therefore I was able to communicate not only with other people but with myself via the written word. And when I first started to write poetry I don't really know. I know I did did it in Alabama and I didn't show it to anyone. And I know I did it in New York City. And the first time my family was away of that was when I think I was about 11 or 12 on a holiday from school my sister found a poem I had done to George Washington. It's a poem called George Washington crossing the Delaware. And she came out with the poem. She had been searching for something and she came
out with this poem I had hidden in my drawer. And she stood up in the hallway and I could still sing see it now because it was quite traumatic for me. She stood up in the hallway and she read it DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE DONE TODAY and then she fell out laughing. And she said this is what you do in the room sometimes writing dumb poetry. And from then on I really hit my poetry. And then from there I wrote poetry in junior high school and never showed it to anyone and then I got into high school and got into a literary club where then I dared to show my poetry to our teacher who kind of like looked at it and didn't really say anything one way or another. Then I wrote in college and someone asked me what did I want to do and I said I want to be a writer. And she kind of like fell out. You know she told me that. Most whites couldn't support themselves writing so how could I you know do that so it was best for me. If I would then become a teacher or social worker and really you know do something with my life instead of having all these wild
dreams about being a writer. I also took a writing course at Hunter I only did one because that was enough to turn me off writing and it actually turned me away from writing for a couple years after I got out of Hunter. By the time I got out of Hunter College I was so into Hunter College in terms of the experience for a black person on a college campus at that time and the non meeting of myself or any black person. Can you imagine going through college you never really know. But I do boys. You know I mean you can just erase everybody else right. But it's such a mental giant as a man name to boys never finding out anything about yourself period. It was a really a crushing experience considering I went into hundred sixteen you know which is a very I mean it's a it's a time when you just a seeking. And I would in hope saying that I wanted to learn and I came out. I almost came out at 18 but I came out found it 901 have. The academic world period because of the experience one had there and I start writing
and I didn't write anymore until I came across some people who were writing also. You know I came across people saying things in the 60s you know the same things that like I have been thinking all along. And I started to write again I think I also mentioned to you that I took a course for Louise Bogan who taught a course on creative writing. And in that group I think there were about seven or eight of us who kind of like you looked at each other and thought we were the better rightist. And they came over to means it would you like to join this writer's workshop. And we met for five to three years. And the thing that was good about that was that you wanted to come to each meeting you had to bring work. And that was really good discipline. So even though sometimes Ana wins if I went to the workshop I might not have written anything the entire week about an hour before my trip. Sit down and just start writing something but it made me get become accustomed to discipline the discipline of writing and writing when I had to.
So I can sit down quite often make myself write you know. Or if I know I'm on a schedule you know I get not I'll sit gun in like you know it was it was very good discipline for me. So I was always seeing things you know I suppose who were poets as you know when I was a child I used to make up stories and my family used to call them lies. But I called them. I really need to say but this was a good you know good story and a sound good to me. And they cast me tried to push that out of me that kind of creativity they didn't ever play with it and make me deal with it they just said if they asked me Where were you I would say oh I was outside and I would make up some fantastic thing with her. Obviously I had not been doing because they had seen me out there but they didn't deal with that creativity with all that imagination they say Oh stop lying. And so therefore they relegated me to lying. And I knew I was a lying ass. Oh yeah right. I wasn't doing that but it sounded good. And that's the kind of imagination that I had all my life you know. And sometimes it comes in handy. I like to read from you to my newer books this
past year I put out four books and two are called Love Poems and my blues book for blue black magical women and I like to me from love poems that's published by 30 precisely WordPress right in the first poem and I have to do is a poem called Poem number seven. Support that I do it after listening to a dear friend of mine and talk about how she felt when she realized her husband had come home from being with another woman. But as a poem for me and women who have experienced that so but that was just what made me do that poem at that particular time. But it's happened to all women. You know if you've been involved married non-married or whatever at some point in one's life you know that when someone's kissing you they've just finished kissed and somebody else and it's quite an experience. Poem number seven when he came home from her he put me on the bed and slid into me like Laz.
And there was the sound of splinters. Which is a kind of poem that you do in terms of understanding what life is all about sometimes. Balad after the Spanish forgive me if I laugh. You are so sure of love. You are so young and too old to learn of love. The rain exploding in the air is love. The grass excreting her green wax that is love and stones remembering past steps is love. But you you are too young for love and too old once. What does it matter when or who I knew of love. I fixed my body under his and went to sleep in love. All trace of me was wiped away. Forgive me if I smile young heiress of a naked dream. You are so young and too old to learn of love.
Poem I did talking to a sister who was telling me about how much she was in love. And I think that that's the kind of hand that I. I wrote that listening to that conversation. I was joined a very difficult time for me which was nine hundred sixty eight. Poem call all words. There's a quote. Which is from something that I have said. Where are the dead runs the slow fast suicides of our time. We are the disenfranchised ones the buyers of bread one day removed from mold we are maimed in our pasture one. Did you hear me start my herding song that summer night. It is autumn now and the night multiplies by three days can you hear me poet one sound was you. And as I sang You Blue Man has march from your face holy with Stangs all mass produced faces I have burned myself out now my ashes have no place to lean.
Sing it Billie baby sing away that ill wind blowing you no good no good. You know when spread your strange food amid these downs we are strangers here singing I hear your words quivering with silks I smell your black soul sweet. To you it was horrible to be gigantic for gigantic fornicators advance towards me shrinking maternity cries and as I run I tripped over my deformity. First is a food world. Pain is an ailment for the wise man knows how to reconnoitre pain and not get colloquial. Go Prez men and go now move those plastics have hands up and down that sax blow man blow rat your saxophone cross the stage and back again we all ride is here low man can't you see this transfixed already and staring at you while you bleed blue eyed Lee.
Had three. Are we ever what we should be seated in our circle of agonies we do not try to tune breath since we cannot sing together since we cannot last our eyes since we cannot love since we have wooed this world too long with separate areas of revolution mysticism hatred and submission since we have rehearsed deaths of hard now. US abandon past heresies now when small men stretch for greatness via wars on poverty in the 20th century and a time of punitive contaminated repressive wars when men disfigured their bodies to become holy in space and walk without footsteps. In the 20th century at a time of granting life copyrighted astronaut's when men stuffed their mouths with murderous little queens and urinate on hungry faces in the twentieth century at a time of illiterate adulterous industrious hungers. We have come to believe that we are not to be. We must be
loved or touched and proved to be this earth turns. Oh and rivers grow lunatic with rain. How I wish I could lean in your cave and creak with the wind. That's a poem called all words which is in three parts and behind that long poem I like to do a short one. I did quite a number of haikus in this book which is Japanese syllabic verse three lines. If I had known if I had known you I would have left my love at home. Which is. Kind of like a real one Haku. When I felt your warm touch I swelled up into the streets were filled with you Haku your love was a port of call where many ships docked until morning came
which sometimes is real. And how cool I wrote from taking because you know I greeted the day before the people I loved so the day. So I said let me wear the day well so when it reaches you you will enjoy it which I am something I wrote to my family and a poem. I'm reading poems that I really usually never read except for the hawk who is I read that a lot but they are a lot of poems and other poems I don't read on stages and that I have what I call a poetry audience because sometimes you find in terms of publishing that quite often you put up works perhaps that you know people will deal with but sometimes you have other poems like people we you know are not too interested in dealing with necessarily. So I like to do these two poems one called depression one.
I have gone into my eyes bumping against sockets that sing smelling the evening from under the sun where waterless bones move towards their livers incense a piece of light crawls up and down then turns a corner as one dragging a mote in beds tumbling over blankets that cover sweat nudging into sheets continue in dreams. So I have settled and will Barrows grotesques with Moon's small and insisted sleigh bells. Am I a voice delighting in the sand. Look how the last rock on the wind is moving in tune to leave used I shed my clothes. Am I a seed consumed by breasts without the weasels I or the spaniel teeth of a child too. I have cried all night tears pouring out of my forehead sluggish in Paul's tears from a spinal soul that run in silence to my birth and my bowl and I cannot peel the flourish. I hear the
moon daring to dance these rooms to become a star. Stars seek their own mercy and side the quiet like gods. A poem that I did when people at some point or another go through some you know put points of depression and perhaps ending up with a poem from love poems poem number 12. When I am woman. Then I shall be wife of your life. When I am woman and then I shall receive the sun. When I am woman. Then I shall be shy with pain. When I am woma. And when shall my laughter stop. For when when am woma. Then I shall swallow the earth. When i won't. Then I shall give
birth to myself when I am well home and woman woman woman woman woman woman woman woman. Well I am woman which is kind of like an interesting poem to end it. Considering that we all are women as such or see ourselves as a women. But that kind of poem was kind of like special for me in terms of like talking about like you know this country just lets you grow up and say you're a woman you know and sometimes you make it and sometimes you don't. You know when I give any basis to life what that means I mean our parents even give us sex education which means that like you know you're ready perhaps for like being a woman. Sometimes many of us have like been violated by grandfathers uncles you know whatever I'm talking about women you know and so therefore we never really grow up to want to be a woman. You know to deal. So that poem was a kind of poem that you know was talking about that you know giving birth to myself and whatever.
You know something that strikes me as well. Last night I sat down and I read Blue's book for blue black magical women cover to cover. Really. Which is something I don't usually do I usually read a section and then put it down and think that I mean nothing. But I did it. I'm glad to hear that. And it kind of deliberately I wanted to get a feeling of transition and shape just in in a whole flow of one to the next to the next. And something that I noticed with I would say in 1965 to at least 1973 by the time blues book was completed in the 1974 publication by broadside. But I noticed from the beginnings with Queens of the universe which is a poem written in 65. Yes but sixty eight or sixty nice it
is nine. Yeah OK well even from that point in that say 68 or 69 and love poems I've noticed that if I can say it this way the politics of your work have mellowed. Let's say changing it almost from politicisation to a way of life for complete compassing right. Well I think you're right about that I mean just maybe and I don't mean my own I don't think to be negative. Well definitely I don't need to be negative and I don't have a limited view change of topic from love poems writers I think of it where you deal with yourself as a woman makes me want to give that right. Well I think that you said when when we began to poet I says to move on reporting you know in the 60s people had not heard certain things you had to be very loud you know very explicit you know sometimes you had to not even put a lot of lyricism in a poem if you're
trying to teach someone something is very hard to keep to the lyrics of that you know you have to like break it down one two three this is what it is so it's quite often the lines were bare were stark you know but. If you understand love poem some of the poems written in the 60s at the time when I was writing a say ropes for homecoming wrote is the new Gave work for we are bad people but there were things to be said about this country. Many people really don't believe that I sleep on the stage and say well you know we were followed by the FBI like the FBI came to my home and asked my landlord to like put me out you know people are going to believe that the CIA knew was on our case you know I'm saying when we set that in the 60s people are you hardly paranoid you know you poets. But now in 1974 or other things have been revealed. Now they say oh yes the CIA did do a little domestic you know world I stand in my classroom and say we have students in here you know who are not really students you know but they are spies you see people they want to do that. So I'm saying that yes I would say that
like very obviously we dealt with very political themes like a lot of high points on the Vietnam war I think. And talk about blacks going to fight in that war. Anybody going to fight in that war. You know if you understand that. So there are a lot of poems were on that level a lot of points were just about making people realize what it was to be black in America. You know it was not a shameful thing you know. And it was not just saying a beautiful but what did it mean when you understood that you had a history past slavery in America and one had a history going back you know thousands and thousands of years. That's what I mean about that so yes you're right a lot of things were I mean they were very political roots. And again Russia moved past let's saying that out loud being very explicit. Then you began to internalize a new life time. What does it mean to say I'm black and a woman. You know what is happening to said I've been oppressed. You know there's I mean you just say this is enough blacks it is enough. You know when a girl a is enough wearing a long dress is enough you know minute turns of your children doesn't mean that you have black pictures in your home and that's enough for children to see that there's a link then you've got to begin to educate your
children to everything that at eight or seven Your children must do with tape recorders. You know you know you must know how to read must understand mathematics must begin the whole process you begin to teach in chemistry. I mean because we're talking about children now moving past a sense of inferiority you see I mean if it took us. Twenty some years or 30 some odd years after 30 some years to move past a sense of inferiority and you know what I'm talking about Janice. Many blacks who have run or people have a sense of fear are to around whites you know are to move past that consciously than children got to be taught that that's not being negative you know towards it when people think that from my mouth that like whites who say she's races I won't even come around me but there are many whites I know will come around in a sit in my house and talk will know that what we were talking about I might not feel that I can like solve their problems but I know that within this realm of blackness one has got to begin to deal with the problems of black people here and we will touch base on many levels you see because we're living in a high society you know and a majority of whites you know and here in America. But so
yes many of my works like love poems like you know I consciously say certain things and how we've got to deal. I consciously come to certain poems I consciously show us crying. Also people really get a feeling that you're not human because you can get up on the stage and say rah do this and do that like my God look at that woman she's heart whatever when you know I'm a woman who's crying who cries a night to you know I'm the one who's been up with her children nights you know I'm a woman who's been along with children you know had to raise children by herself you know what that means I'm a woman and that have nothing to feed my children you know what I'm saying I'm a woman who's gone in the store and really bad shit sometimes you know because of my children you know I don't do it any more than to say and this is an old hours you know I don't do it anymore. I mean fat checks meaning that like I do not have money in there you know until I was waiting for another check you know I just write a check you know. And most people do that. They write checks without being covered you know having money in the banks and in two days later the checks come and you you know you cover it. I'm just trying to show that like you know this is the kind of thing that America has like put us under and terms of
my politics is that you know they would like make sure you have no jobs or whatever. And American towns do this again Janice. I mea if you understand repression and depression for many blacks and whites in America we said when the repression you know recession but you know you and I know that like we are now we're in a depression for many blots if you understand 40000 people in automobile industry in Detroit you know you're not dealing with no recession you know that you're dealing with like a potential dangerous situation in Detroit you know. Understanding the how well hooked up the automobile industry is to like the government you know to our you know the whole government intern in terms of the economy. We're dealing with some dangerous stuff now and people are dealing with this at all at this time. So moving to a blues book I tried to show in the introduction Queens Of The Universe was kind of like a. A book that talked about an introduction that talked about what we should be about doing right. And then I talked about it's divided up into four parts I think
my pass which talks about childhood right and then. The OP too like a young woman to womanhood right into the movement into the black movement and then the present you know. And then I think at some point I talk about if not the past rebirth you know how that came about. The Rebirth you know of one people saying you cannot do this or you cannot you know maintain blackness will not sustain you kind of thing or like you know it's OK to do it when it makes when it's OK to make money but like if you're going to cause you problems forget about it you know. And then on to the future. So it's that kind of book and so many people have written me about Blue's book you know a lot of students have written me about that and they said they they read it just the way you read it you know. They were I was trying to show my life you know here and I'm not trying to proselytize and you must be like me. But I'm just trying to say this is what has happened to me in terms of America
you know. And turns of me today. Right. This is how I've moved you know. And even though I've moved in this way you don't necessarily have to move this way but like you know we have we all have common grounds you know that like I'm sure at some point you like you know something you sense something in that you've done the same thing you know. And quite often that is like what that's all about. It's like when I used it when I you know when I first started teaching I said to sister you know you know how it is. When I taught a black woman's course I was in a classroom sometimes you know I'm talking about something that we all under. Then as black women right. Like for instance when you said leave the house you know as a young girl or like even like a young adult sometimes you still live in homely living at home. Your mother would say hey make sure you have on good underwear not Harley underwear because girl because you might walk outside and a car will hit you and they take you to the hospital. Right. You know and they're fine you holy underwear you know. I mean everybody said well every person I said that to had the same experience of parents saying that to you. So you know
so this is like a common you know a common ground that we all have and I think that we have that here. You mentioned something moment you were just talking now in terms of your work and emulating your work you're not saying do what I did in presenting your work but you. Translated those experiences into some sort of action a positive action. You know sometimes I've talked about black love blackness respect. But basically that comes down to a manatee. You know to be a human being you know understanding what that really means right. That I think we have been treated so inhumanely in this country right that I'm talking about our not turning around treating people inhumanely but being a very humane person if you understand what I'm saying at this time. You know and I try to treat people you know the way they treat me. OK sometimes I would do that but most times I try to teach people how they should treat people. If you
understand what I'm saying and I'm not saying that like I will not you know like come out hard on some people who are incorrect right. But I just try to make you know in a sense give an example of how we should act. You know how we should be you know how we should probably must prove on a planet you know that has been that is here for you know supposedly for humane people you know for not suppressing oppressing you know to me. But I live people might. He doesn't understand why I don't have money. You know I mean you suppose I have money you know what I'm saying. If you're well known right if you're an artist and I try to make them a stand there is no such thing as having money in America when I know that they are people you know who don't have money in the world on the planet earth right for people who are oppressed so for me to have a big bank account means that you know my vision could get messed up along the way. You know and I was like I'm saying that I try to have some money to feed us right. But I'm talking about money you know how you just like many of us crave quiet money by being very ruthless on some things you
know. But I just felt that like that is not what I'm about. That people come to me is I need money. You know I will say here because I understand that I have had the need myself and they say well our pay you bet. But generally people have not paid back but I understand that too because you know there are people like you know need money but they don't always understand the need that you might have that money. So like I say here that means I have dealt with the reality that like that is gone perhaps it will not come back. Now I don't want you to think that I'm just like some crazy person you know giving my money but I understand that they are greater needs than mine you know that I eat that I live in a place right. But there are people who do not eat they have poets I know who really have not got on the plane. Gordon like in a sense maybe at the time we had the push to begin to push ourselves in the 60s who didn't like who were not in a certain place at a certain time to do that. So they have one of the books out I've got the money to bring their book out you know because I should have a book out they are bloody good poet. You see that's what I'm saying these are the kinds of things and like you know people like you know you don't really make money from poetry to therefore they can't pay back. But I understand that if you know where I'm coming from
on his way to send a like you know the like people come and stay with me. You know who are artists you know and like I know what that's about you know we've had people in the house we don't for for for weeks and weeks. And I expect eventually to maybe if that happens to me I can go to people say hey I need to like you know stay with you for a month you know I don't have anything. So I'm just saying because I have a gig because I have a job that means that people I know around me you know you know Corps also need also means that they eat that they have a job that's what I consider an art is all about you know it's very funny for me to try to pull the cult of people in this country and then to be so well off you know that to me. There's a schism in that you know there's something wrong with that that that kind of allergy. I am always very much shocked by people who are supposed be in quote revolutionary and I live so well if you understand what I'm saying and that's just me you know. And I think that's what I'm saying. I am not talking about a thousand people like you know living in CT in ghettos the whole point of talking about change is to move people out of ghettos out of like the
roaches I grew up with you know out of like a bet when their face is a word or you know there's not enough room or space to breathe then out of like what I call I remember my sister now living in New York in New York City. You know I don't have enough air. Janice to bring you a big creative you know I'm saying that the ceilings are so low and the rooms are so small that the creativity that spirit that that flow within never comes out and expands you know it's always restricted and constricted you know and whereas if you when you come up to Massachusetts sometimes you get into some of these houses and the ceilings are high you know and I'm saying I came into a house like that once and I said very simply I could understand how people can produce people you know who have a vision and can expand because we are. It was in boxes you know and you need the room to expect you know to be if you understand what I'm saying and I'm not trying to get spooky. You know I'm just trying to say we're never given the room you know one of the more I mean I teach native son
ice is absolutely talk about obscenities as I've seen you for so many people. A native son to live together in one room. You know that's obscenities. You know we talk about a curse word is obscene. Right. The obscenities of America is that you find you know four or five people living in a room and I know what that's about. You know you see I think if if like people say round you happy the people the rich have got to be rich they can give but you know Janice to me ology of that is that like you know why are we not I me if if if if. Being poor is not so terrible as I've had people actually tell me you know it's not so terrible I say. Then there is the poor you know you don't I'm saying that US are be the same. You know this is what I'm trying to say you know and I just think that you know the injust of justice are few you know being you know and the majority of people John is can you imagine the majority of people the masses of people who we do you never you know really enjoy life. And I'm not talking like dancing
away and close but never even know my life. You don't sense never know the reality the beauty of the country. You know something the beauty of a sunset you know because you don't notice that living in the city right. The beauty of peace. Being by yourself in a room you know you know the beauty of along in this you know you know the privacy of self you know and you wonder why some people are always showing off because they never been alone. Place you don't have one dress by yourself you know. It's like turning your head and close your eyes while I get undress. It's not something you know I never even get you know get in a corner by yourself right and read by yourself or be by yourself. I just want to sit and look you know at a room that's yours. When you talk about that I think of a woman that I had spoken to once who was raped as a teenager and did not even realize that she had been raped and that always struck me and I said
What is that how could someone say they didn't know they'd been rape. You know there are people in this world who have never experienced that kind of just plain human joy. And some people who have lived in in such a situation that they don't even realize anymore the extent to which they've been violated. They just about so they've had to wrecked such communities for themselves that they can't even see that anymore. But then I'm going to switch around a bit and say you spoke of being an artist and the values that we talk about imparting. I had written down before we came here some words that I said let's discuss the meaning of. And I thought of them. We've kind of discussed them and I thought of them very individually and then as I looked at the whole list I said well they
all end up in one place. So let's talk about that for a minute. The words are art. Personhood. Freedom liberty responsibility family accountability and honesty. That's a lot. But they all mixed up together. I think when you at least I see myself in terms of being an artist and some people I like a lot. You know who are artists also. They see themselves with a responsibility towards their people. I such I think everyone has a responsibility to his or her people. OK fine. And then you have a responsibility to the overall you know humanity up there OK but you know we do live in six you know him saying you know we do live in close tribes of some kind or another. And so as an artist that meant that like in terms of a writer writing certain things and
traveling or whatever. I saw certain things that I had to talk about. Right. So which meant that I had to be honest to myself write and say those things there were painful things to say Janice let me tell you something. When I got a natural. Must be 10 11 years ago now. Right. It meant that I had to deal with my concept of beauty. Right OK because my concept of beauty has been. I've been following other people's concept of you know in terms like the black woman's hair right. Well in this country if you had curly hair right. It was not a mark of beauty you know that my Know what many people don't know that so black women in America always straighten their hair you know because they were trying to like approximate white women you know straight hair right. I mean just period I mean we know this well to say this in the 60s was like opening up Pandora's box you know
to get on a panel discussion with women right. They would like to like look at you and say My God and he was not doing that. I'm serious that like you know but I remember people wearing hats all the time. So people never see that you know the hair I remember sisters never learning how to swim in high school because they jumped in the water. They say their hair would jump back and then everybody would know that they have a funny time here. This really targets you and keeps you from moving. I know so many black people never learn how to swim behind that and it is tragic Right I mean everybody should know. Well you know like swimming or course because you should know how to swim whatever I mean this is just like another way of retiring from doing things from like you know these personal what I call non truths about oneself that you've been taught you know to like say Yes this is I you know can you imagine how many hours women spent you know taking their lips. You know most black women's lives are full squeezing them together
so they try to be thin. You know I'm saying. I mean can you imagine in years it was spent. I mean they're not doing it you know you can say well that's you Sonia. But I know understanding certain laws right. You know that if I did it thousands of women did you know the million that you want to do it you know my father every time he passed by me he cut my nose and screws ecclesia because. Carport was at that nose of mine and I didn't have much of a chance because I don't have any cat litter in mind so like you know it all right here. So like it's kind of like pug you know but he was squeezed my nose religiously because you feel he figured eventually that like well I kind of like get near near a state of beauty. So what they were teaching us was that we were not beautiful right. So like the poet an artist if you if you understand that finally I don't care how old you be and you're an artist and you want to talk about beauty what beauty are you going to talk about Janice. The beauty that has been put on us for years you know and see that the thing
is when we start talking about the beauty of the black woman black people in general America say Ah you're a racist you know I me not understanding that she had been races all along by even denying that they were beautiful black women the only one they would say were beautiful were very you know one of the ones in America. I can see the beautiful. You know there are certain kinds of black women who are the beautiful ones you know that you know they said a certain kind of like tone etc. but the rest of us were like Elaine's And you know and really terrible looking women. And we felt that when we look at the certain women on the TV screen on the movies you know we wish we could look. Just like I'm you know I wish I had her straight hair. You know the only people you know you got to see but also when I say you're taught that I don't want to take you off of what you're saying but we've mentioned basically black examples of our parents and our families handing it down to us but when we imply that it's so
institutionalized that I think of a very fine and talented artist Tom feeling's who was taught in his school he was assigned one day to go out and draw the faces of the people he saw. Well of course he went to his own neighborhood and you drew the faces of the people he saw. And the next day he came back to school with his assignment and of course he was really severely markdown while the teacher corrected his drawing and what did he do. He straightened the nose made a very pointed narrow the lips. Reshape the eyes the shape of the face smoothed down some of the high cheekbones and so forth so it is an institution that you are dealing with. Yes I mean this is like this country never had to do with us. Period. You know what I'm saying. And each time in terms of certain periods in our life you know every like the cycles that history goes in you know as history goes in certain cycles right. It's time that we began to move. We've begun to talk about
ourselves. This country goes ding a ling because you see then you if you have a person who believes in himself or herself you then you've got a person will not accept 30 dollars you know a week on a gig if you know them saying you ain't going to do that you know he's a whore you want talking to me take but you got a person sorry to feed it in every kind of way. I think you terrible looking you know him saying whatever I mean simplifying it is not that simple. Right. Then you've got people that you can control oppress and do anything you want to. So of course there are some dangers to this country of trying to make people think that they are in quotes not just somebody has a such a cliche OK but like you know in terms of like they have a history you know that there is some work to them that they are indeed beautiful that flat nose is beautiful. That funny looking hair is beautiful as such you know I'm saying that like you know you do have a certain beauty to yourself that like you know you have indeed struggle in this country but there's a beauty to that struggle you know we have indeed survived like you know the students or with Smith we're going to go to a mid evil but
all Smith College with college right. And the sisters were going to go as like you know the medieval stuff that you wear and I said to them Well why don't you go. I mean they were Africans to middle age. And I said oh yeah you know you see I'm saying the more you say middle age they think in terms of European history. Right. But during the Middle Ages you know there was African history going on. So I went to my books and I came up and I said Here this is what you wear usually seen them smile at me you know. But again my perspective we've never had the perspective in the world where we're doing you know in the Fortune 500 you know something people say well well Europe was doing this. They don't say another what Africa was doing what China was doing whatever. If you day one coming from that's what I'm saying. So that what we try to do as a people as an artist as a teacher whatever. You try to give another perspective but America says that's racist when you try to give another perspective because as far as America America is concerned the artists you know perpetuate America. You know that's what it's all about you know and true artists. That's what you
should do. You should perpetuate your people. You know we should live in song and in dance and in poetry. You don't I'm saying that we should celebrate ourselves our history our presence here on this earth now and our presence future wise along the way would you say yes this is incorrect. Why don't we try to correct that. Yes you are beautiful you know. What's your problem. You know I'm saying why don't you celebrate your beauty and walk with dignity and as an artist one tries to do that with a certain amount of dignity you know. Well I think that the country black people should hold you accountable for your actions you know I mean that's a deep thing that we many people have not dealt with. You know eventually because like doing this it's as many people say well yes I'm a poet and I came along and just like well some poems you know but you know an artist is a cannibal. You know to his people because one day his people say well like what did you really mean by this you know. How why did you give us such a vision and you were ready to like look at yourself or work with us when we're doing that right. You know what is that all about you know with all just
words with the words are just rhetoric or whatever. You know so we are accountable if not to a higher authority to our people. You know as such you know. To all people you know people in prison you know whatever I mean because you cannot just write a book and say That's it. You know that book travels to people Janice you know and all kinds of people say well I read your book and it kept me from going under. If you do when coming from you know I suppose once I read a book and you say well ain't nothing happening out there you know just be your own self and do your own thing you know. You know there's something wrong with that you see before me. We have about six books by Sun you scientists love poems third press a beautiful children's book The Adventures of fat head small head and square head. Also published by the press. It's a new day and a blues book for blue black magical women which you'll be reading from shortly. Both published by broadside.
We would sorceress It's a collection an anthology of short stories published by Bantam books and one that you published independently which I wish we had gotten to talk about because it's an important project but it's part of living. What you say what I say by bringing out a group of very young or telling people challenging times bigger in Atlanta that you called. I did a writers workshop for three years at the county cuda library New York City which was like if you if you write you must teach it and you must make sure you cannot be involved with selfishness like I'm a writer so therefore I'm not to let you publish come behind me because like I'm going to keep it all to myself. So I had a bunch of like young students. And the reason why I want to mention this is that like from this book I publish myself many of the pub poets in here have been taken into other anthologies you know or a rock against the wind a love a collection of love poems or one of the brothers
like took about six or seven poets out of this book but also just recently one of my one of the writers for my writer's workshop is a son of a major contract and I mean when she first started write prose I just saw her recently in New York City and we kind of like look the last is a song I've stopped ever writing I should just drive her insane every time she would over right and I would just tear her apart you know me. Brenda Wilkinson and she just signed a contract and they gave her a $3000 advance. And I I laugh as I have never in my life gotten one and she said should I do it as of course you should do it with me. Don't be foolish like us you know whatever. But she you know but by three other people publish books now you know who are in that. And it's just a joy to see them like you know moving on you know being writers. 360 degrees of blackness coming at you from an anthology of the Sonia Saunders writer's workshop at the county Cullen library in in her right the woman section talks about
wanting to we rediscover yourself. And it starts off by saying Come write my birth birth mother. She talks to oh earth mother asking her to tell her how she became this woman with razor blades between her teeth. On to the second part which talks about the earth mother who comes in and she has an all woman's voice talking about. Yes I know you young black girl and I can see you coming in the arena of youth. Go shake your butt to double dutch days. I can see you coming girl racing dawns. I can see you coming girl made of black rain. I can see you coming. And the real young black girl part three. 5 10 15 20 25 30 35 40 45 50 55 66 was 70 75 80 85 90 95 100 ready or not here I come. Ready or not here I come. One two three I see you are new and you new stepmother. Woman of my fathers you who stands at a mirror.
Elaborate with smiles all shiny like my new copper penny telling me through a parade of smiles you are to be my new mother and your painted lips outlined against time become time and I look on time and hear you who threw me an angry afternoon closets till I slipped beneath the cracks like light and time stopped and I turned into myself a young girl breathing in cross and listen to those calling me no matter what they do they won't find me no matter what they say I won't come out. I've hidden myself behind black braids and stutters and cannot be seen no matter what they do they won't find me no matter what they say I won't come. I listen to words asking what did she say. Why can't she talk normal talk. There's something wrong with that one she got the demon inside of her or something strange one to acquire it no matter what they say they won't find me no matter what they say I won't come out. Coming out from Alabama to the Allen city of Konna
storage unit was putting big budget black women in tune too girly can I help you girlie what you want today. A good sell on pork today girly girl if you're only coming from Alabama to the Allen city of perpetual adolescence where I drink my young breasts and stay thirsty always hungry for more than a George Washington High School Hunter College Days of America remember parties where we grind and grind but not too close. Because if you gave it up everybody would know and tell and grounding was enough. The closeness of bodies in Project basement recreation rooms was enough to satisfy the platters. Spinning you into body after body then walking across the room where young girls watched each other like black vultures pretending nothing had happened. Leaving young brothers in conditions they satisfy with out of the neighborhood girls coming out from Alabama into smells I could not smell. In tonight's they corner lights lit dimly.
I walked into young womanhood could not hear my footsteps in the streets. I could not hear the rhythm of a young black woman who could. Young womanhood and I entered into young womanhood. You ask Who goes there. Who calls out to this perennial black man of Rowan and time on her annual pilgrimage squatted and watched as I called out to love from my door. What a lovely smell love was like a stream of violets that warm your phase. And I was found at the four corners of love a black man and in prison the laughter I don't so a man made sterile by hatred a famine man starved and starving those around him in this plentiful country. As I entered into young womanhood I became a budding of laughter. I moved in Liquid Dreams wrapped myself in a fierce circle of love gave out quick words and invalid
tramlines them kisses did and drew blood and. And the seasons fell like water falls on my knees and I dressed myself in foreign words became a proper paint prop. painted European black face American go into theatre parties and bars and cocktail parties and bars and downtown Village apartments and bars and ate good cheese and caviar with wine that made my stomach stretch for artificial warmth. Dance required friends who include me because that was the nice thing to do in the late fifties and early sixties and I lost my self down roads I had never walked and my name was with Ana and I became a stranger at my birth right. Who is that make you know us on this earth while good people sleep. I wondered as I turned our three year old bit of love in the morning. I reminded you of the noise and you said just some niggers pretending to be the wind. The night brought more noise like a swift courier and I leaped from our bed and followed the
sound and visions came from the wall. Bodies without heads laughter without miles then faces crawling on the walls like giant spiders came towards me and my legs buckle and I cried out one face touched mine and said You are a singer of songs but you do not listen to what men have said. Therefore you cannot sing a second phrase murmured. You are a reader of books but books that do not teach you truth. A false messiah is a third face to face smile as I close my eyes. You move as a free woman but your body is a monument to slavery and is dead. When morning came you took me to one in a Brady would Freud massaging his palm so you called out to me a child of the solve and I'll listen to you appealing words that rushed out to me and handcuffed me and for a while I rode on horseback among my youth. Remember seven days and nights I
remember a beginning a New York girlhood where tall buildings look like aqueducts remember starters. I could not silence at the end of one month when he could not explain away continued acts that killed at the end of one month of stumbling alibis after my ancestral voices called out to me against past and future murders. I moved away from reconciling myself to murderers and gave myself up to the temper of the times. I stood against discrimination and housing jobs picketed said in saying about overcoming that which will never come close to Woolworths. March against TV stations while ducking horse riding cops the dancing like funeral Hawks was knocked to the ground while my child screamed at the cannibals on horseback. And I screamed. Calling out to those who would listen. Called often Carolinian slave markets Mississippi schools Harlem streets the beasts populated US based with no
human heartbeats when they came among blackness and I vomited up the past their frivolous years and I threw up the smiles and balance and knowledge that it made me smile so many smiles and I vomited up the stench of the good ship. Hey zoos selling to the new world black gold. I vomited up the cries of newborn babies thrown overboard I vomited up the war waters that has separated me from the homie and Arabia and Timbuktu and Muhammad and Asia and a lot I vomit. Don't mock VC and Nat Turner and rebellious lay women their big star mits split open in the sun. I vomit up white robed choirs and preachers Hawking hawking their sermons to an unseeing God and I vomit out names like beasts and death and pigs and death and devil and death and the vomiting ceased and I was alone. I woke up alone to the middle sixties full of the rising wind of history alive in a country of
echoes convulsive but God's alone with the Apocalypse of beasts in America the repository of European promise rabbit America where death is gay an obscene and legal in the sight of an unseen God. That is all part two and three there and it moves on to womanhood. Well thank you. Well the world of women. I'm down on the set and thinking I guess since Sister song new song is and you can be joining us this evening. They. Say.
Thank you.
Series
World of Women
Episode
Interview with Sonia Sanchez: "Ten Years A Poet"
Contributing Organization
New England Public Radio (Amherst, Massachusetts)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip/305-848pk8c3
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Description
Episode Description
Interview with poet Sonia Sanchez about her poetry and her career. She also reads some of her poems.
Episode Description
This record is part of the Literature section of the Soul of Black Identity special collection.
Asset type
Episode
Genres
Talk Show
Topics
Literature
Rights
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Media type
Sound
Duration
01:03:12
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Credits
Guest: Sanchez, Sonia, 1934-
Host: Adams, Janice
AAPB Contributor Holdings
WFCR
Identifier: 267.10 (SCUA)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Duration: 00:59:00
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Citations
Chicago: “World of Women; Interview with Sonia Sanchez: "Ten Years A Poet",” New England Public Radio, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 29, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-305-848pk8c3.
MLA: “World of Women; Interview with Sonia Sanchez: "Ten Years A Poet".” New England Public Radio, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 29, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-305-848pk8c3>.
APA: World of Women; Interview with Sonia Sanchez: "Ten Years A Poet". Boston, MA: New England Public Radio, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-305-848pk8c3