Report on the deaths at San Quentin

Five days after the shootings at San Quentin the controversy surrounding the case had not as yet been resolved. The following is an interview with a former guard at San Quentin Prison conducted by Patrick mayors of KPFA and David Stevens an independent black journalist. Were you privy to all that are there. Yes. When did you write that. I think approximately 250. What happened there. Well the inmates after the. I saw the officers enter the adjustment center to try and get the other officers who were in there being slaughtered trying to get them out. Heard some shots inside it just once and. Then I saw some officers bringing bodies out and I saw one

officer walk out. Another officer carried out. And then I saw inmates coming out that were stripped made to lay on the lawn. Some of them were cuffed when they came out because there weren't handcuffs available at the time they had to get additional ones. There were approx and there was probably an hour to get all of them out and one of them. Trying to get out get off the line try to run. Attempt to get the gunman gunman shot him got in that room. You know I don't know I don't even know who the man was of a shot but you do recall where he was shot.

I think you were shot away when when you when you got me to shoot if you asked what had happened and he would tell you what happened because they had a convict told me on the way there on the way out. They told me that the inmates in the Adjustment Center had taken over the first floor of the AC and that they had weapons that some of the officers had been killed and that they didn't know how many other weapons were there. That's all I was told at that time. During the ensuing search was not can ducted by correctional officers it was not conducted by the custodial staff was conducted by the CIA and I believe they found no other evidence that I know of

at least I was not aware of any evidence that they found but there was another search made by correctional officers shortly thereafter and some bars of soap were found to have ammunition over the time period. No investigation that you know. No the justice center was being searched from top to bottom until Sunday afternoon. It's also being cleaned out. When did you first hear or see or know of a jury. Yeah. Say three o'clock did you have any information. No I know is that he and the reason that they were alerted in the first place was that they had heard

scuffling inside the Adjustment Center and the sergeant who was in charge of the officers that escorted George Jackson from the visiting room to the Adjustment Center needed one of the officers for another job and he went to the Adjustment Center and was let in by the inmates and another officer came down from upstairs to see what was going on. Wishful was shot at by George Jackson and missed. And I understand Jackson turned the gun on the sergeant and shot him in the head. I understand after that another officer looked through the adjustment center door. Jackson shot at him. It was a hole blown on the right floor window just inside and then Jackson Spain ran from the Adjustment Center Jack from a shot it's not quite clear to me whether he was shooting when he came

out or not. I know after the shot was fired through the door he came out of the U.S. from South by Spain and Jackson had a gun in his hand. He was shot in that Spain dove into some bushes near the garden chapel area and was not shot. It was picked up by officers handcuffed. I think this is pretty significantly in that because if they were to eliminate the Soledad Brothers that they missed an opportunity to do so because while the Adjustment Center was and was not under control of the tear with the tears were full of inmates that run walk by George Jackson. The adjustment center was completely open on the lower floor that the officers that went in with guns could have shot many of them and I say exercised a lot

of restraint in not doing so considering that already some six of their fellow officers come out. But you need to prove say they sat in court on Tuesday August. 24th. Stated that they thought that the audience what happened to George. If you fly they murdered him they shot him in the back and then they came up to him and he wasn't dead and then they shot him in here. Do you have any reaction to that statement. Yes I do because this statement is pretty ridiculous. Since George Jackson was not shot in the back George Jackson was shot in the head and the coroners report stated that he either had. A wound from either the same bullet that struck him in the head in his foot or that he had been shot a second time and that there was no way on his back

and that. I would say that him a clue she is trying to justify the actions of all the inmates just once and that is their reaction to the allegation that George Jackson was shot in his cell which is just not so. George Jackson was shot after. Releasing inmates who butchered six officers and after killing him Sergeant Graham and after shooting him and another officer through the door the adjustment center. After leaving the adjustment center running towards an area the explosives were found him stashed in a light repast. Do you do you fight any. Mistreatment of inmates.

What if I you know you know the inmates were not mistreated. The amount of force that was necessary in order to handcuff the inmates as they came out of the adjustment center in order to get them to lie on the grass in order to come get them controlled. After all they had taken over the adjustment center and slaughtered six officers two inmates that amount of force was used and I think it was excellent restraint on the part of the officers especially considering the circumstances. Is there any possibility that a gun could be provided by another guard. I would say this I would say that the possibility is always there. However in viewing the circumstances leading up to the escape attempt and the consequent. Shooting. And the killings in the Adjustment Center on Saturday that

it was not done through officers working at Sam what was doing through other means. Was mainly done I feel it was done through the visits that some of the people had been getting. I feel that it was smuggled in and from their hair and secreted after they had reached their cells. I don't check sums here wasn't one note that I understand I understand that there was a wood found. And. I have been having viewed George Jackson. On several other occasions having seen him and shaking him down myself. That to me it was quite possible for him to smuggle that weapon secreted in this here covered by a week.

On Thursday August 26 lawyers were allowed inside San Quentin prison for the first time since the death of George Jackson. Three prison guards and two other inmates on Saturday August 21st. One of the lawyers described the conditions inside the prison at a rally outside the gates of San Quentin. Right now there is an absolute reign of terror prevailing inside that prison every one of these men has been threatened repeatedly on their way to see us today as they were brought out of their cells. Everyone I saw was either black or Chicano. And without exception they were told nigger you're going to be dead before this day is over. They had knives held to their throats. They've had guns held to their heads repeatedly for the last four or five days. They're living two men in a cell with one mattress and two blankets. That's it. So if you're big guys one guy sleeps on the floor with a blanket the other guy sleeps on a mattress with a blanket. Their diet consists of four sandwiches and an apple.

They don't have anything to drink. They don't have any water they have running water in their cells with no cups so they've got to do the best they can with their summer and don't have anything but a pair of white coveralls to wear some of them given a set of blues to wear they don't have any shoes or socks no toothbrushes no toothpaste. One bar so they've had one bar soap since Sunday. It's just it's hard to describe. Phil Ryan can tell you about Michelle McGee is absolutely unbelievable ACM his spirit looked to me like it was completely broken I've never seen him like that in the four clients that I represent are there. I see him every week and I've never seen them like this. Two members of the California prisoners Union a group of former inmates from prisons in California discussed their reactions to the violence at San Quentin. I've just spent seven years in front of that mosque right close with George Jackson. We do not accept this. Given to us we

believe that a gun was put in George's plan and he will know not only you know it was murdered at San Quentin. Joey Jackson. In all of our opinion was one of the most logical people we've ever seen in our entire life inside of that prison. And it's almost impossible to get out of that in just minutes. If you get out to where you want what's the point of death and found that you can't get to the two gate. Then if you get Beth there you have to go through the metal detector. Then you have to go at that point to have the hobby area. It's almost impossible now for them to tell us that George had a gun in his hair. John she has like hair and you can see George's scalp and put them to give up to read that list boy that again most places it is obscured. We've got to start the talking now about the real issues doesn't involve. We've got to deal with this still a war going on inside of Sindh quitting. It's a war between inmates and guards. That's thought it all the

way back. John you were at the night. Of 1960 now with the first killing of the marksman that hit the three brothers in solidarity and all the rest of these the visits are nothing but escalations and that kind of warfare. And if you understand what I'm talking. You can't take me hand and then turn around and pit them against the also power of the gods and expect anything to happen. But what did it but I was slow and that this book is going to be up to the people to demand an investigation. We're even talking about something else we're saying that that whole monster. Is that. Has to be just the symbol you know as a part of we'll think is that. The people of the earth cannot be responsible for investigating themselves. You have to take in man the statement that wooden parts may about the two whites being killed. That statement was to incite a riot. Between whites and blacks

so that they could cover up the. Real facts of what happened to George. This is serious business here. This is life and death and it's not over yet. We're only on the first. Of a whole series of events. We have to worry about. Where is Rochelle. We have to worry about what happens again. What we found Rochelle with a gun in his play on the same ridiculous do it tomorrow. This is not the end of it. This is what we have to stay here until we get some results. And I decided to what is going to happen man as it is just a toothless and couldn't have been a had been allowed to investigate themselves. You know if I commit a murder let me investigate myself I'm not going to be attacked and it will happen on a stand when they've been allowed to cover up and smother up everything they have done and it's time I was safe. But federal the federal government is stepping in to compete to take over everything that's going on over there trust them somewhat I'm there because I've known the Bend over much about it.

I don't think it's a much of trust but remember that the federal system has a stand at the federal prisons are plagued with the same kinds of prison system that California has and we think that a lot of it has to do with economics in a time you've got 25000 people working for two cents an hour. You've got a corporation you got a corporation. California has the third largest prison system in the world only superceded by. Unless you're in China and we think that there's a lot of people. Who would like to go at that system generously and would like to keep the kind of situation the only ways that they can raise. That prison system is to racism and out of racism comes the whole land above it. You know this is what our feelings are on the inside that we're being manipulated you know for the economic concerns that come out of that situation. He told me. And it's consistent with what all of the people interviewed found. That there was no escape attempt.

This is Rochelle McGee's attorney speaking on August 26 that Jonathan Jackson was in fact murdered. George Jackson. That George Jackson was in fact murdered that it was an attempt planned by prison officials and executed by prison guards to kill specifically the Soledad Brothers. And Rachelle McGee. That. George discovered this plan and acted in. The most revolutionary fashion possible he gave his life to save those brothers and to save all of the people in San Quentin from a massacre. And he was successful in that. In addition to that. We have learned that the. Alleged escape attempt did not have any inmates whatsoever opening the doors in the cells in the adjustment centers. But those in fact were opened by guards. There was no weapon smuggled into San Quentin on August 21st by any lawyer or supporter of Soledad Brothers or any other political prisoner. The gun in

question the gun that was pulled on George Jackson belongs to a prison guard was carried secretly by that prison guard as most all prison guards in San Quentin do carry secret weapons. He pulled on the wrong man and now that guard is dead. So is George Jackson. And that's what happened on Saturday. The pretrial hearing for the two surviving Soledad Brothers John cloo Shea and pleaded drongo continued on Thursday when they didn't go until they say were brought to court before the voyage but they had been thinking that if they were taken back to trying to go there they had to get their body. The attorney again tried to have the judge post the whole thing any of the previous motion in the water to deal with the problems of what was happening to the defendant.

Calmly said almost as if in surprise. Talking about the reaction from I think you can be in there with us today here. I don't understand why we can't do this in a common dispassionate in my thing is not a normal court. The attorney said that he wanted to give an offer of proof that had been beat that he had a need to thought of it that he didn't burn the prosecutor bar and said that this is propaganda. And Lida cried out We want to see the burn. If you're going to kill me kill me now. Fuck all this kid and his mother and out of the courtroom crime. The attorney pleaded to have a doctor come see it come to freedom now. Barton said all of this is irrelevant to the proceedings in this court but they argue their lawyers kept arguing probably to get a doctor in here and both both of them so they could have.

I don't think then a fleet if it was visibly trembling all over his body that he had to take and he couldn't take the judge insisted on getting on with the previous. He said that he didn't see any bruises. So again to put both in here and you could clearly see where I was in the dictated to the cigarette burns ever thought of it that the flood zone cliches attorney and keep them in the county jail tonight until they could have a hearing about this tomorrow to prove whether or not the business of being think the judge again with a silver dollar going to wasn't allowed in the bullet proof area within a decade they can and he did for the decade I think it is noted that crawl out of the superior court judge had jurisdiction over the prison only with up to him to do something about it to tell them to be quiet or that he'd get thrown out of the courtroom and going to get into court. Maxwell to begin crying and calling calling out

into the garden to try to remove Mrs. Maxwell from the courtroom. Then people killed them. They keep them from being able to drive me out of a pointer he thereby but it's worth noting that I've never even heard of any credibility. You got it right. Totally didn't think Bloody didn't matter whether they were the people that had any blackmail that they could get there or a beating the last so long I can't even begin. To describe it I've never heard I covered with blood. I. Am. I. Know as. I am. Shouting out screaming. USA is only about my brother my brother. However in the one who was at least she trying to get back in. The

scene. I think initially screaming here now behind us now she didn't get in she even. The other people. Now. The. Doors are closed. In. The end. Yeah. Mother is. Hysterical. Family and friends trying to comfort her. Pulling back now to the doors. Of the. Courtroom doors. To hear. More noise inside the courtroom. The doors are open. Police officers are some of them with blood on their uniforms at the door. Photos being. Empty.

Is being emptied of spectators people coming out crying. OK. OK. OK. Everybody tell me oh yeah. Yes. Yes. Yeah. This. Hysterical. Woman is house screaming. Well you know not. Everybody is crying. Oh OK. Yeah. They didn't try to take your snap and that you. Know. There'd

be full price many game time up here in 53. You. Know. You. Lose. Oh yeah. People screw all OK. Thanks officers OK. Everybody including some of the press. Pool you. Thank you. One of the supporters. We sold out broke us to take the cameraman. Would take a. Truck to the place. That. Police officers are pulling you're. Trying to. Separate that port. Area from the.

Get out of it. Now. I never want to know. That. That. Was. Wrong. Let me. And I let you out. There. And it. Was. Never coming back in five minutes that he did. This. Get it done. Right. Don't. Come back and. They. Didn't come. Get me. To get. Them moving everybody out there you know to do. That. I never knew. That let me think. I'm going to try that again I don't know

maybe without. That in my head. No I don't feel it. Yes well they hit me like that in my stomach but they never get it into. My head. They. Came in. They came in to grab Mrs. Maxwell. She was crying as came the grabber started joint to the court room still got the cold like cold. They grabbed fill that room down in the and the chairs between the chair so we couldn't move. They put everybody when he was about to leave me alone. But you get it. Oh. State Assemblyman Willie Brown who is black responded to associate warden James Parks and state director of corrections contention about the violence at San Quentin was a result of Dillard taunt revolutionary bullshit.

That's. It was as if they are doing a disservice to the entire said history of the state of California to make them believe and thereby create additional hostility on the outside that somebody could inspire by the spoken word other with an written word that kind of conduct. I don't believe anyone could inspire the guards to do the act that they did. And I don't believe that anyone could inspire allegedly the inmates to do the acts that they are accused of having done. I just think that it's irresponsible and wrong to engage in that kind of bric brac that would be as if Willie Brown would stand up and say the existence of Ronald Reagan is what prompted the inmates to do what they did. If in fact they did it or any other kind of cause and effect you would be misleading the public. And that's a terrible service for a public official and elected official in any category to do. I don't I'm never guilty of those acts and I certainly intend to suggest to me a on my return

to Sacramento that that's not helpful in terms of reducing tensions and the returns of pursuing the truth. The state legislature passed a law that says that prison inmates on title to receive any kind of literature which is normally passed through the U.S. mails. Now San Quentin officials say that they're not going to go along with that state law. They're going to buy what they call revolutionary material. How about that. Censorship in this country is totally unacceptable regardless of what they allege justification happens to be. I think the prison officials should be removed if they do not obey the law. State Assemblyman Brown said he would see to it personally that those prison officials are fired. And he emphasized as chairman of the state assembly's Budget Committee he has the power to do it. This program was produced by Pacifica with tapes supplied by KPFA in Berkeley.