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And. You. Went to college and a basketball scholarship she was hit by a drunk driver. She still play but she doesn't have a job just. This message in the broadcast of real time were both made possible by BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon. Coming up next on real time another twist in Portland mayor Bud Clark's relations with the city's black community. Ron Herndon of the Black United Front now threatens to picket Portland's city hall. He'll tell us why. We'll also talk with some of the reporters who are trying to cover city hall. And we'll take a look at the idea of dismantling Portland State University. Also find out how euthanasia may be in Oregon's future. All that and more on tonight's edition of Real Time. Remember last week when we took that incredible risk and threw a dart at the map of Oregon.

Now if you weren't watching we have it on the replay machine. And here is what happened at the end of the program. I stood firmly on the studio floor and tossed a red dart toward the outline of our state and it landed right near a small town called Grass Valley. There it is on a super slow mo. Now we promised you that for this week's show we would send a crew to Grass Valley and find out what was happening there and in fact that promise has been kept. I personally went with photographer Gary Sheetal and we drove to Grass Valley for a firsthand look at one of Oregon's small wonders. Our report coming up later in tonight's program and while I can't reveal details at this point I can assure you that Grass Valley is a place where visitors are never disappointed. But that's to come later on. Right now we've got lots planned for the show and here to begin it is Rita Flynn. Thanks Steph. Bud Clark's Portland's mayor can't seem to get out of the hot water he got into with key blacks in this city. In fact as of this week the water is getting a lot hotter tonight Ron Herndon chairman of the Black United Front who is with us tonight

threw out an ultimatum. He insists the mayor apologize for a remark Herndon and many others around here found racially offensive. Herndon also is demanding Clark hire a black person to be the liaison to the black community replacing Ollie Smith. Clark's only black staff member who was fired last month. Herndon threatens to pick at city hall until the mayor does something about the concerns of his group. How far is this fight going. We invited mayor Clark to join us tonight. Settle it. He has declined so far but we repeat that invitation and we have set up a special phone line for the mayor to call in. That number is 2 9 3 1 9 2 2. Again if you are mayor Clark and only if you are mayor CLARK The number is 2:9 3 1 9 2 2 2 9 3 1 9 2 2 all others stay off that line. Ron Herndon chairman of the Black United Front joins us tonight. We're glad you could be with us Mr. Herndon. Thank you. Let's go to the infamous remark the mayor himself has given a different version of what happened.

Tell us this specifically and accurately as you can possibly remember specifically what he said that you find racially offensive when we were talking about the necessity of having someone from the mayor's office resume being the liaison to the black community during that discussion. He said words to this effect. He stuck both hands out like this was far from him as I am from you and said I try to use words as if I tried to get black or brown one time or try to get a suntan stuck his head in his eye like that and smiled. And so when I hear him make statements today that he wasn't joking when he made that statement I assume he must have think or must think that we're all have nuts because we saw what he did and if he even had done that out of just the deepest sincerity that he could muster up in his heart it still would have been

offensive. But he did it as a joke and everybody saw him knew that he did it as a joke. Like a wise guy kind of is. He thought he was being funny. He says and again the mayor is not here he could call that number that we put out we'll try to repeat it. He says that what he said was something along the lines of If I want to be the black liaison if I could be black I'd be black. Did he say anything like that as well. His comment was this when we were discussing about the liaison he said I guess you want to have somebody this black. And my comment to him was that the most important thing is to have somebody who understands a community who has credibility in the community and you don't have either of those qualities at this point in time. One you don't understand the community. You wouldn't know where to start as mayor. You don't have the time to be the liaison to one group in this in this city. And in terms of knowing people you don't and you do not have the credibility that lead

I think into the infamous suntanned remark. OK. When you say the mayor of Portland does not have credibility with the black community at this time. That's a very powerful accusation. There have been rumors that perhaps there's been a little talk afoot about a recall. But Clark are you willing to go. I mean is that idea of got any place in your mind at this point. This is not something that I've been involved in. Sure I've heard other people talk about it but our concerns are right now centering around this particular remark lack of a liaison person with the black community and also given all the problems that the black community is faced with now. High unemployment. One of the highest if not the highest infant mortality rate in the whole state. Poor schools a crime problem that's out of hand. We would rather spend most of our time addressing those concerns and trying to get in front of them. I wish he would do the same thing.

Ok I am being asked to repeat the number that we have set up just especially for Clark to call in. This is the time we could settle it. Maybe that number is 2 9 3 1 9 2 2 only for the mayor. Don't buy off please don't. Please don't do that. Ron I want to ask you a question now that I think might come up with someone looking at this from the outside and that is why is it so important for the mayor to have a third party liaison is it really unrealistic to expect that if he wants to deal directly with the black community he could have someone just come in and do do as interview face to face and not have that third party why is it so crucial to you to have someone as that liaison person he's not going to have time to deal directly with any one community and do it on an ongoing basis. If he needed to be in touch or his office as it does with people in Southeast Portland for the mayor to say that I will be the liaison to Southeast Portland I will be the liaison in North Portland. There's no way in the world that any mayor given the responsibilities that the job that goes with the job will be able to do a good job of it. Why we say that you need to have

somebody in this familiar with the black community. Again given all the problems that we have all the challenges that are in front of our community you need to have somebody that understands a community need to have somebody who knows individuals who are working with organizations in the community and you need somebody who can accurately receive information and convey information at this point in time. He is not able to do that. And that person has to be black not necessarily not necessarily And that's what I said to him when we were talking to him and other people have different views on this. My comment to him was that you just don't go out and choose a black person anybody won't do. But just as if we were talking about having someone who would relate to women all things being equal a woman would probably do a better job of that than a man. Does that mean that a man could not be a good person or an individual who could relate well with women. No it does not mean that. What if all things equal you probably would want to select a woman to do a press conference who specifically said it should be enough. Yes we do. All right. If the mayor does not apologize and

then ignores the pickets what then. I would like to think that someone will be able to talk to him and convince him that not only for the mayor's office but for the city. It would be best that he get this behind him so that we can move on and address other issues. I would rather just pull the pickets out and it will be a done deal and the mayor and LA have apologized and I didn't say that that's not what I said what I said it was that I'm being optimistic and hoping that he will apologize. Beyond that it really would be premature to say exactly what we will or won't do if he doesn't apologize. I want to ask you right now if nothing changes. Realistically we can't just say that the whole black community is frozen while this is going on. There are things happening in the black community there are programs that are moving ahead and there are positive things taking place within the black community. What are some of those what are some of the things you can point to so that we don't just get the idea that this is all on the downhill slide there are some things that have to be moving forward.

A number of things you still have Saturday school is going on. I think one of probably one of the most positive attempts that I've seen black community address this issue of education education is not occurring for its children. Many people are not aware of the Black United Fund this philanthropic organization that we started several years ago. Anderson is the director that that organization last year raised over $120000 that it turns around and pumps right back into the black community the north northeast economic development task force a coalition of almost every major organization in the black community that came together last spring to develop our own economic development plan and that plan is being implemented right now the community rescue plan lays out a number of steps that are being implemented to address this whole issue of crime and this comprehensive because it talks about education talks about treatment facilities for those who are addicted. It talks about jobs and talks about economic development all of the elements that have to be addressed if we ever are going to get in front of this whole issue of crime. So all of those things are

occurring right now. Very quickly because we're running out of time for this segment. There has been a lot of focus on the skinheads and neo-Nazi groups. Do you think there's been any progress made against race and racism. I don't think that obviously we've gotten in front of the issue of the comic. Mayor Clark has made really has set us back. When you look at politicians as individuals who should help provide leadership on this issue he has not helped us. OK. Let me just let you know that Brown is going to be back with us in a special little way in a little bit. I need to see you. Yes here we are. How many fights can the mayor handle at one time in addition to Ron Howard and another black leaders. How's about his latest bout with virtually every reporter who's come calling lately. Well take a look at that next. Just looking at the map this is a key part of our journey. We have already passed through the downs that was back that way we're now at the junction of Highway 2 0 6 where it leaves the Columbia Gorge Biggs's over in that direction we're heading inland don't see

signs of some people are tried this already and maybe they didn't make it but. We can't let that stop us. We're going to head back in line now backup that direction. Somewhere back there is grass Valley. We're going to find it. We keep the focus on the strange goings on at city hall is Bob Clarke trying to imitate the press policies of of all people Ronald Reagan. Will it work here in Portland Oregon. The mayor has indicated he feels he's been burned by the local media specifically the Oregonian and radio station KGW. He said his press secretary packing and hasn't Hart a replacement. He's let it be known he doesn't even read the local paper anymore and also doesn't want to talk to any news reporters. We'll give you a little taste of what we're talking about. I think we have a videotape we can roll now.

It will all go through the normal budget process and we will see what will have that time. Today we're doing we're just thankful that we're able to have the city going forward with the being able at home and the police officers 16 new police officers. I think that's enough unless you don't want to stay longer. Mayor can you comment on your relationship with the black community. Do you plan to apologize for your comments on the sun. Everywhere I go in Northeast Portland people bring it up. Your question wasn't answered regarding his comment about the sun tanning incident. Were you surprised that he did not answer the question. It hasn't surprised me given that he hasn't responded to some of these questions in the past few months. It didn't surprise me much. That's a videotape from the mayor's news conference yesterday the first in more than two months he announced his plans for community policing. And then we'll let you ask and we'll ask our panelists here did he Stonewall. With us are four members of the Portland news media. Jim

Reddon from Willamette Week which this week issued a cordial open letter to the mayor urging him nevertheless to get his act together and reminding Badcock of the paper's endorsement. Not one time but twice he was Spock KGW reporter. His last interview with the mayor was on September 26 and it wasn't pretty on the air Mr. Wise back call the mayor a liar. Tim Storrs KGW TV obtained an exclusive with the mayor this very week. Some of his colleagues are wondering how he got the interview and Lars Larson K.P. TV channel 12 he's never been known to ask anything but hardball questions the mayor is not seeing Lars any time soon. Gentlemen there is an old cynical question that gets put to reporters in a situation like this. And so I'll let you have it because it's been asked me a couple of times. With the exception of its impact on your own careers what does it matter if the mayor doesn't talk to you. Actually not a lot of it is because in the absence of them they're having said anything has essentially created a blank slate upon which everybody else is furiously scribbling these days. Without him you go

to other city commissioners are going to miss his staff whenever they will talk to you go to former campaign workers you go to you know his former staff members to get stories you've built together a piece with or without his help. He still shows up on the evening news though everybody put him on and everybody put them in the newspapers about his quote on community policing. His plans to announce the 60 new is to his message occur once you get beyond that you know. Well Lars was asking him under the sun tan come in he's going to end up essentially like Frank I haven't seen one man on the run you have to chase down a hall to try to get questions. If he doesn't answer them all you end up is 30 seconds away from people pursuing them Aaron. You know sooner or later he's going to have to answer the worst to his own best interests or talk of it doesn't to his own detriment. Exactly. Because I know that every press secretary he's had has suggested to me that if I don't play ball then I will have my access to me restricted. Duffy Chuck Duffy did that. Jack McGowan did that and Cathy Dimond did that while she lasted.

You mean nice. Be nice to me. Well just be cordial because I think all of us try to be civil to the mayor. We ask questions that are difficult. That's not to say that we're being impolite and they're not questions you'd ask of Mayor at a cocktail party or over lunch. But but you would certainly put to them put them to him as a reporter. But it's been suggested to me that you if you do stories he doesn't like he won't talk to you. And my response has always been this place City Hall leaks like a sieve. And if I can't get it from you or from the mayor I'll get it from everyone around you and most of the other people in city hall have other agendas which don't always favor the mayor and if they tell you things they may not be what the mayor wants to hear. I always seek his input. And in the five years I've had of covering him I've had a very difficult time getting to him to get his comment. That's right. This is not the first time that the body has been not talking to the press. There have been many times when he's appeared isolated and removed for days or even weeks on end. What's extraordinary now is that he has in essence announced that he's not talking to the press. And I think that is what makes it an issue now rather than

six months ago. You know also had in the times past he also had MacGowan Jack McGowan and also had to check Duffy flacking for him. He has no money now to do that. It's him. I was going for an awful lot of quotes attributed to the mayor spokesman before all of this started 10 stories I've got to know how did you get him to talk to you. I asked. I called on Tuesday couldn't do the interview that he had to do. The next day you had a pretty good relationship with him in the past. It's been easy going. You know I've had access to him I guess because I've been covering since before he got to City Hall as steadily. I mean there's been no break in the time that I've covered city hall as a contrast. We asked for an interview a half an hour interview uncut which is what he says he wants on a program that we do on channel 12 called Newsmakers where we simply sit down talk and he could say anything he wants it doesn't it's not edited. And his spokesman currently Tim Gallagher said the mayor will be doing no long form interviews until a new press policy is formulated. That was last week. This week he did the interview with Tim. We went to GALLAGHER So did the Oregonian said. Why is it that he's giving an

interview here. Well you've told us there will be no interviews and the response was Well he went around us. He was also offered three hours to take over my show which they said he had previous commitments. I didn't want to correct one thing when you started out I didn't call him a liar. On September 26. What happened. I'm a liar. Well I said that he had told an outright lie and that was I believe it was last Friday. What do you feel you were justified in telling that to the mayor of the city of Portland. Well I don't really think there was big issue that he said he wasn't prepared for your show. And I'm wondering how anybody could be prepared to come on and be told publicly that they're telling a lie like. Well no. Hold on a second when he came on September 26 when my producer Gary Crenshaw actually booked the show with Kathy Dimond Kathy Kathy and was informed that we wanted to talk about drugs crime and the National Guard. When he left it started to circulate that he was not prepared. He was not told that that would be the topic matter. And when he went on that Metro seven television show that cable show he again said

I just come back from overseas I thought we're going to talk about our trip. And at that point that was untrue. I went back to Kathy diamond as did my producer and we confirmed all the details. Not only did Kathy Domin tell him of the topic matter to be discussed. She also prepared two or three pieces of two or three sheets of briefing for him. OK. But much has been made of the fact that your newly arrived from Canada. I that and also that we're talking about a very confrontational style on KGW right now that I'm sure the mayor could have been prepared for or his press secretary. Did you hear the interview in September. Part of it. Well I think I asked him some questions that a man who's been in the position for five years as a police commissioner should really have a handle on how many police officers he requires. Beyond just I need some more. Furthermore I think he's extremely reactive. He came out yesterday to announce we're going to hire 100 new police officers. I don't think that would have happened unless balloon ever launched his re-election campaign three weeks ago and said we need 40 to 100 police

officers and at that point Clark reacted and said Operation Jump Start Here we go. I don't know how many but give me a couple of days we'll put it together. Read it. The mayor's always been uncomfortable with hard questions. And in fact I think one of the reasons that the public a perception that he is open in public and accessible is that they see him with a lot of events. They see him at ribbon cuttings and grip what we call grip and grins you know where he shows up smiles waves opens a new facility of one kind or another and then goes on. But he doesn't answer the hard questions that are involved in running the city. He doesn't say one thing Peter first Canadian you speak English beautifully. You really I you speak the Queen's English you see. I want to just ask you and all the rest of us here is really how much does what we write or what any of you write a report about the mayor really matters in terms of how he's doing his job because he is going on about his job now and if he says I really am not going to talk as much as you'd like me to. How much does that really matter in terms of his performance. Oversight one question because I think that there is going to come a time in the not too distant future when he has to go out and sell a new program for the voters his community policing program is going to

require that the city hire at least 200 more officers maybe 300 and I don't think that can be financed with a small increase in business taxes. I think we're getting to the point where he's going to have to look at a new levy or a tax base or something and he's going to have to go to the voters of this city and say Here is my plan. Here are the details. I want your support. And if he's not talking to the voters through the media he's not going to be able to reach very many of them. Jim I have to ask you how is the mayor supposed to respond to this open letter Willamette Week put out friendly though it was without looking like he's a patsy. If he does what all the wonderful things that you suggested he do. Well I think all of our ideas were well thought out. It was a group effort from the chamber. No I don't expect him to call them all but is not very good at taking advice. It was our it was our best it was our best shot. We endorsed him twice. No other major paper did in town and we have a right to hear the fellow that we back some advice when he is looking bad.

OK. Is the consensus at this table that he's just naive politically as a politician. He's just nine. He is one of the things that everybody seemed to like about him early in the going was that he was so human and he wasn't a politician. He wasn't from city hall. And because he was so approachable and you know he ran was like kind of a friend will follow the sort of the same things that that worked well for him personally I simply do not work well professionally for him in city hall. It also begs the question of whether or not Portland has matured beyond Bud Clark. I mean do we deserve better but won reelection with a good margin in the general. I think the people of this city are still behind him and want to see him do well. I think that we all want to see him do well. And you know I think it's you know the ball is in his court now. The best thing he could probably do at this point is figure that do well what he does well which is all that friendly sort of fatherly kinds of things that you refer to and hire some good technicians who know the levers and the gears to work at city hall. He doesn't have those people now at least judging from the way he's running his office. This police initiative should have come out a long time

ago and if his staff wasn't saying get this out on the table now. They waited until everyone else had reached the conclusion. And in a way Portland Maine we were very well does deserve you know when he came up in his first election he was delivering meals on wheels. He'd been involved in saving preserving Northwest Portland from urban renewal at the time and started a neighborhood newspaper. And he was the essence of grassroots activity in one of you is going to be talking with the mayor as I understand it and Peter it's you you want to tell us about that. Well I went to the auction. A. Bit desperate a little desperate. Well people you met on a lunch with me work hard and you. Yes. It was actually against this gentleman and he was in cahoots with Phil Stanford. We didn't have enough cash to be going to be. I don't know yet another example of foreign foreign entities coming in and they are dying man. All right. Do you think Cox can pull this off. I mean could he come back. Well if his past record is any indication it will blow over. I mean it's just one more flame out and a

group of three it's hitting so far. I don't know I think this is the situation with the black community as Ron Herndon said is extremely serious. And I think that how he handles that is very important. I think he could cripple himself for the next three years and we'd be in a very sad situation OK especially given that with gangs and some of the racial incidents that happened in the city races a very very hot issue and it's sort of a slow one but it's a sleeper and when it erupts in he's had some gaffes with the Charles Jordan opposition to Charles Jordan at the beginning with the black community. He's he's got some Brome. It also is a possibility getting pretty ugly if it turns out that the biggest thing the best thing the American do is stand up. Right now listen. OK. Tough Being at a table with all these reporters. Lars Larson Tim Story Peter WINESTOCK rather we thank you for being with us. And stay with us. We have for their plans for you with all this attention on the media. And the mayor and since we have these reporters with us still in the studio we thought we might try a little experiment the tables. In.

Public figures like Ron Herndon are always on the receiving end of reporter's questions and we wanted to let him try to pitch a few tonight. How well does the Portland media cover the black community. Ron Herndon joins us now our panel still in place. We thought this might be interesting. Let's see if it is. Ron do you feel let's just for starters and I want you to feel free to ask these gentlemen any questions you have in mind. Do you feel that you have been accurately reporting on when you say something and have an event do you feel that what comes out on television or radio or in the newspapers the way it was for the most part probably 97 percent of the time and it has been accurate there have been times when you have differed with the analysis and even those times.

I can understand how people reach that conclusion from the vast majority of times the process has been fair. All right. What have you ever wanted to ask these folks. Go ahead be a reporter for a while. What have you ever wanted to ask. Well folks like these folks here who are I'll try to limit my questions so that I can ask them. On this issue of affirmative action it is important then in discussions with them. And I would like for any of you to respond to your view of how the media has addressed this whole issue of affirmative action in terms of its own hiring policies either. Where you all work on the stations in town. So how many blacks either. Well that's not what I. Am. Asking. QUESTION I'm sorry. This moderating crime how you deal with the issue of affirmative action within city government within the media within your own institution in terms of feeding it back to our bosses and coming back to work tomorrow. Harding who runs these places. Are you are you are you saying we ought to go back to our stations or have we gone back to our stations and told the general manager hey we're

doing all these stories on city hall maybe we ought to be in better shape. I wasn't asking personally how you'd help but how do you view affirmative action within the media here in Portland. Both. You can take a look at it in terms of your institution or the media in general because you get around you see each other and what hasn't gone forward backward in time and specifically in terms of black people in the media. I don't think affirmative action has worked very well at all. We have a very low percentage of minorities employed in our paper an editorial advertising and production. I've gone to journalism conferences with national journalistic organizations Iare and and others and large has been there very very low percentage of minorities who were very poorly represented on the other hand in the early 1980s I worked in another institution in Portland a radio station and I recall that at the time there was a great deal of concern by management that there were not enough minorities within the station and they went out on a almost a frantic search saying let's find

some people who are qualified that we can hire. And I just recall that we went through months of phone calls to stations all over the northwest. Anyone who was within the region trying to find people who were qualified. And it was a very very trying search came up with very very few candidates who who even came close enough to meeting the standards. You know standards that we set deliberately low bring in an entry level person say Let's bring somebody on board train them and make them a good reporter. It was very very difficult search and I sort of got the other side of it there because it was difficult to find candidates that were even marginally qualified. You understand and that's what we're used to hearing is that is that I saw it my boss came to me and said you've worked at a bunch of stations call people you used to work with and see if they know of any candidates which I think is what you'd expect. That's what affirmative action is right.

Looking deliberately looking for candidates who meet the qualifications and it was difficult to keep going back to him saying I've I've made 10 phone calls and I've heard nothing. It was like one of the worst stories I've worked on were you. You call 10 people and you can't turn a story. Any suggestions suggestions about what you could do here in the city to get in front of this issue. Well first you have to start reporting on the media itself which is almost impossible unless anything get done. We're trying. I have given I've given my boss a bad time for at least five years. Mark Zusman and Richard Meeker who will end the week because I think we'll end the week is in maybe I'm unfairly targeting them. But I think that paper is in a unique position to report on the rest of the news media. Television stations have a difficult time reporting on what other television stations do. There was a little bit of it this year in some some job actions that happened. The newspaper reports some on local TV and radio but not not so much on the on the employment end or on the business end. But you know you don't often see a story in the business page of The Oregonian about the economics of TV and you don't often see TV stations report on each other or radio station to

report on each other. I think we'll within weeks in a position to do that to report on how the news media is doing its job not just on affirmative action but on and on whether it's covering the news accurately and fairly. But Ron you must have an opinion. I'm asking you because this is my turn. I. Waited for this opportunity for years. I waited for this opportunity for years. Just a comment. The young black lady who is anchor Morning anchor at KGW I think the story I understand is that you approached K-Y in first about a position there. I was told there were no openings when in fact that and she couldn't cut the mustard when in fact there was an opening. I think that this is an area that the media has not come to grips with. And I know that includes you primarily your bosses because I mean we look at us here. Typical for white men and I'm talking about the media and talking about these events. Beyond that what

do you think could be done to address more some of the positive aspects that are occurring and not just the black Asian community the Hispanic community. What things do you think could could happen in those communities. The way in which you or your stations address those issues when you start coming in I suppose I could do with any other area of interest covering it as a beat and stablish it is in something of interest within that within the station within the organization with the value that that comes with it. You know the assignment of reporters and resources and time to explore what it means. I mean that's when it when you really know that you've got some dedication to the issue. Who makes that decision. News director with the staff quit collectively assignment editors and reporters can because to some extent because they're embarrassed that I started covering where I just say I'm going to start covering this and I start coming to the desk and saying here's a good story and if it's a good enough story it doesn't matter what it's on.

They won't turn it down. But on the other hand it depends on somebody saying you know this is something I want to cover. Are you just not satisfied with that they're giving enough coverage to the positive things like the Saturday school. I can't remember when not make page one anywhere. Well I understand why gangs are covered. That is of interest. I understand why the why should with the mayor it's covered. But again there are positive efforts that are in the community. And I think that it is important that they are covered. And my question really was who makes a decision about what stories get covered who makes a decision about where a story ends up in a paper in my form of talking. I make that decision with my producer and basically has it become more aware. Of your needs and get to know you better. We got together tonight. We can dismiss him as a rookie. Can you talk about affirmative action.

I mean that's like speaking French to me. Another issue is the definition of news. You know good things doing good people doing good things for the right reason may be nice but is it really news given whatever else might be happening on a given day or a given week. You know reporters are accused of thinking that only bad news is news. And I'll plead guilty to that to a large degree. I would tell you why that's important. Because given the history of racism in this country black community frequently is looked upon as being pathological. Everything that comes out of it is bad and to the degree that the public sees and hears reports that are about crime cry and cry cry cry cry cry cry if it fits into a pattern that's been there for years. Well I think it is important that other things that are occurring in the community that are positive they get report almost equally as the things that are negative. If you don't you end up with the same stereotype the mind of a lot of the minds of of people. All right. We are out of time for this segment I thought it was great meeting it really well. Ron

Herndon I thank you for being with us and your job. Peter Weiss by Ken Starr Tim stores and Lars Larson we thank you for being with us. Gentlemen thank you. And let's go to. Someone make sure to follow all those people out in the parking lot. Follow them real closely. Well we've been promising it for the whole show it's what we've been waiting for. We've been on the road to Grass Valley we haven't been quite sure when we were going to get there but this is it's we actually made it and that forms the basis for tonight's break time. Suddenly we were there. Grass Valley population about 175. This is wheat country. And a lot of the crops end up in these big silos on the edge of town. But we weren't there just to go sightseeing. We knew that the key to understanding any small town is to find the local communications center and in Grass Valley that means heading down to Karel's cafe. All the farmers come in the morning. They're talking about their farming and. Their

cattle. Oh the weather. All the farmers talk about the weather always been I mean it's not MOTM seated in some of my area received because parts of it came out and parts of it did. Jackie also told us that if we wanted more inside information we should go across the street to the post office. That's where we found this intriguing display of local artwork. Six of the second and third graders over at the great school. Do them for me. There was content and care and Jamie and Tate and Edina and Keith in the post office. We also found Darlene Adkisson one of the most enthusiastic residents of grass Valley. Well we're just really close to the river and it gets really hot and it's really nice here in the summertime. They have any rainfall the farmers like it. I don't I like it this really. And it's nice. I mean you're not talking about raising your kids up here. She's just interested in everybody and kind of takes care and organizes everybody and

she runs a wonderful store. I mean for this size town that's an awesome store. There's one of everything you'll ever need over there someplace. Have a wonderful grocery store prices. They have everything. They're very accommodating. Quid Darlene's grocery store really be as awesome as people claimed. We took our camera inside and were immediately confronted by another satisfied customer. I do all my Christmas shopping here. My family can go to other stores but. I try to get everything here. Darling I always get sweatshirts. Are. Different things. I just bought a. Birthday present from my sister in law in Seattle. Another interesting fact came out as we talked to people around Grass Valley. Someone had seen our broadcast last week and had alerted the whole town. So we've been looking for you. You know I don't have much excitement around here. So we knew that television station was coming that was it. The bill came and he goes I watched Neech on public TV last night and he goes Grass Valley is going to be next Friday and we are sure it

is Bill and. Just giving him bad time about it. Well they didn't believe it. Not a bad scene. So I had to tell it four or five times in the coffee shop to somebody who you know wouldn't hear what you say and so I'd have to repeat that. Bill Rolfe is a rancher and a lifetime resident of Grass Valley and he was watching when through the dark aftermath. Last week I was sitting in my easy chair. And I just turned the TV off going to go to bed about 10 minutes after your program and I heard this noise and David woke my wife up. She had gone to bed. So I come running out. There was the door stuck in the middle. When you came out it was dark hot. Was it warm like it had really been. Been traveling. It was just like it had come out of the atmosphere. It was. Really warm. Now do you do any damage. No not really. Didn't even hurt her flowers. So you're not going to have to call any of the insurance people or anything.

No and I won't sue channel them. And next time we throw the dart it could land in your community. So just be aware of that we're going to bring the map back at a future date and we mean business. Now. Here's an idea that sounds drastic. Dismantle Portland State University. Now we envision buildings being taken apart students loaded into trucks for transportation to the hinterlands. OK so the idea isn't quite that extreme but it is a suggestion that was put out this week by the Oregon chapter of the American Electronics Association and that group says their idea makes sense for the future of Oregon's high tech industries. With us right now our Gary Conkling. He is with the Oregon chapter of the American Electronics Association and he'll tell us exactly what went into this proposal and where it may go from here. Dr. Larry large is vice chancellor for public affairs for the Oregon State system of higher education. He's been looking at how many universities in this state how many we can pay for. And Frank Martino is the chief academic officer at Portland State and he's been hearing a lot of reaction this week from people

on that campus. Gentlemen thanks for being here tonight. And Gary I think I want to toss it to you because this idea. Might have been misinterpreted by people who heard it first on the news without really getting the whole background and might have thought gee are they going to have plywood over the windows at Portland State University. Can you basically and in a very short space of time say what is the plan and how would it fit what exists at Portland State. Right now we're not talking about shutting down all those buildings and taking students away. And no we're not. Our proposal had a number of recommendations which I won't try to go into in detail. But first and foremost is a feeling that we need to make an investment in improving the overall quality of work in higher education. That's an investment in new facilities new recruitment of faculty and particularly locating key programs that are necessary in the Portland metropolitan area. The key for us and we believe that there's a unique opportunity right now to pursue this option. The key for us is how we can break the log jam that exists in

Salem in terms of unlocking those public resources for higher education. And we've concluded that a bold change is needed. The change that we're proposing is not one of the nine undergraduate education to Portland students or people who would want to take their education in Portland but rather simplifying the way that we have our university structures the University of Oregon would be providing undergraduate education and graduate education in the Portland metropolitan area as well at Oregon State University specifically in the science and engineering area. So in essence this would split the facilities at Portland State between the University of Oregon and LSU. The facilities would stay there but they would just basically go into different control and the students would stay here as well. No one's going to have to be carted off in a truck to the hinterland. Now this was a study by the American Electronics Association which has now been recommended to a governor's commission which is studying it and they've got a long way to go. So obviously this isn't going to happen right away. Frank. What's your problem with the idea as it stands now sounds kind of

reasonable does it does it. First of all I suppose I should start by saying there are many things in the proposal with which I am in hearty agreement. They recommend massive investment in higher education in Portland. They make a very effective case for the need for that. And I couldn't agree more. It sounds like there's a but coming here. There's a but coming. My difficulty with it is that any response to those needs that doesn't utilize the existing resources and strengths that already that we already have inside the city is very hard to take seriously. Portland State is the predominant higher educational institution here in Portland. It has an enormous broad variety of undergraduate and graduate

programs. They they run into inter district disciplinary and professional programs that are making vital contributions to the city and the state and are indeed unique to the state. And if I read write the proposal though wouldn't it involve pudding's as I understand it the arts and humanities say under the oboe and the technology departments under Oregon State do you think. Can't we just preserve the system as it is now with just administrative changes. Is that a problem if that all were all the proposal was I suppose not. But then it's hard to understand what it is meant to do. The trouble is part of a central part of that proposal involves lifting a school of engineering bodily out of a university and moving it somewhere

else. The trouble is the makers of this proposal are not educators and they probably are not totally aware of the interdisciplinary cross fertilization that all of the academic units need. This is what makes a university a university to isolate the engineering faculty for example from the sciences from from the business school from from the whole. I understand what you're saying and there's a lot in there as far as the concepts you're talking about. Well Larry I want to ask you a separate issue. It sounds to me like regardless of how great a university system is money is also an issue here and as I understand it the chancellor of the state system Thomas Bartlett has said that this state cannot afford to support three first rate research universities and that is the bottom line is that the key consideration is money. Well this state system going broke or at least not not

being able to pay for this system. Let me offer you quickly that there are approximately 60000 students and somewhere in excess of 3000 faculty who are very busily going about their business of learning and doing the research. Carrying on the activities of of all eight institutions in the state system though it's it's not broke. It is something in excess of a billion dollar enterprise. The state of Oregon not unlike almost every other state typically does not have more than two comprehensive research universities. There are some exceptions to that. One of the problems I think in the communication about this is that the research university issue is the term comprehensive research university has the meeting in the industry that defines an institution that has a certain breadth of programs in which a certain number of doctoral degrees are conferred over a fixed period of time. That is not to say that there isn't first class research that there are research

activities going on by faculty and institutions in the state system that are not categorized as research institutions. Oregon Health Sciences University the State University and others are very well the study has been done. It's now in the hands of the governors commission. Obviously things are going to go along just as they are now. I guess could I just ask maybe Gary since your firm or agency was the one to prepare the report now it's in the hands of people for further study what do you hope it goes from there. Well our hope is is that other people will come forward with with other suggestions. Frank is quite right in indicating the particular focus of our report was on science and engineering education. I think that we know something about that area. We've been partners with higher education in turn in terms of building those areas. But now comes a question for other parts of our community whether they're academic parts of the community or other people from industry that come forward with other ideas and for us to sit down and to come to some consensus about what will be the way that we

deliver higher education quality higher education in the Portland metropolitan area. That's the key. And we also have to find a way to do it that allows us to unlock the resources to make the investment to allow those programs. All right. Gary Conkling Larry large and Frank Martino Thanks for being with us here tonight and I'm sure this won't get considerable study in the months ahead and the next thing we want to consider is. Well. We'll. We'll take a short break and we'll consider our final topic right after this. Well we like the friendly people and we like the quiet a laid back atmosphere. Not all the traffic getting all that sort of thing. And we also though get people from the Dallas and Goldendale and the surrounding areas that make what they call the Sherman County loop. So they get to hit all the small towns and have a real nice day. We'll Oregon become the first state in the nation to legalize physician

assisted suicide for the terminally ill. Big question a bill providing for euthanasia will be introduced during the next legislative session and its backers include no less a figure than state senator Frank Roberts. The measure sets the stage for a major battle between right to die advocate supporting the measure and right to life groups expanding beyond their chief issue up to now. Opposition to abortion. With us to discuss the prospect of doctor assisted euthanasia are Jane Williams with the Hemlock Society aptly named. She is a big believer in the bill and vehemently opposed to the move. Vicki that Oregon Right to Life who says that not even Nazi Germany legalized euthanasia Janeway. Let's begin what exactly and specifically and succinctly as you can do. Tell us what would this bill do. It would release from legal responsibility. Physicians who would prescribe medicine that would allow a patient who was in his

or her right mind to give to administer. Drugs to himself or herself will have them administered by somebody else it would absolve him. For all legal responsibility. OK. It would also mean that a physician could actually give an injection of something lethal. Correct. If the legal groundwork has already properly been laid if the patient with witnesses has been judged to be in his or her right mind and the patient has discussed this and it is a instrumental legal instrument has been adopted and signed that would allow this to happen. OK. Now there is a requirement that physicians that two physicians be where this person terminally ill. That's right. Which means a death would be expected within six months in normal conditions. OK. Making Marcella. What do you think. Well of course what hemlock is seeking to do is to take it criminalize

ack at this time a criminal act at this time. The physician's part is criminal part and because it's currently illegal. To either kill another individual or to assist them in their suicide. OK so you're putting the doctor into the position of. Basically what is now a criminal act and you're trying to decriminalize this. And so we are very opposed to that because we don't feel that doctors should be placed in the position of being. The instruments of death for people this is like taking us back into the dark ages. If this was done in a different way so although so that a doctor maybe wasn't involved in there could be some kind of a way around that aspect of it I assume you're still opposed to the whole concept of euthanasia in the way of legally assisting people to die and the right to die and then act right. You see I think what what what what we have here is there are a lot of people who are tremendously afraid of being in a state of uncontrollable

pain at the end of their their life or out of control. Of the treatment decisions that they have. Toward the end of their life. And any competent adult patient has the right to refuse or discontinue treatment. What we are concerned about is when we move into an area of either removing food and water which has been attempted in the past. Or into the area of actually ending that person's life before it's natural and then we're very concerned that I'm perhaps we're just trying to get out as a philosophical concern. What is your philosophical concern with it which must be underlying all of this that we're talking when you keep saying we have a concern what is it that human life is worthy of protection and should not be shortened simply because someone it is is terminal. Jane Williams the idea of two physicians declaring a person terminally ill has a lot of times to physicians have been wrong.

I don't know there's a lot of times and it's wrong when enough. You keep hearing about people who they had six months to live and they're still around three years later. Correct. That's true. But the person does not have to have that in the medicine administered at that point. It does give the option to the patient or the loved ones of the patient to use the medicine that's been prescribed. And so the I don't see that there's any problem there. We also want to say. Find the word suicide not what is intended by our approach. We feel that is assisted germination of intolerable conditions. John do you know anyone who has ever done those who have ever had this situation and is actually taking that kind of action. I know of them. I've been fortunate enough to have had parents who lived into their 70s and died before the mechanical means of prolongation of life were found so that the problem did not arise in that case. And so my experience is is that of

interested friend. And is that the central concern to you is advancing technology being able to keep people alive beyond the quality of life and. And I think it creates problems for everyone and I don't mean to say that it doesn't but. We feel that for instance even plugging people in to support systems is a way of acting as God. And so removing them unplugging them is equally defensible or indefensible depending on your point of view making more quickly and the last word because we well I think that this hits on on a real nerve that a lot of people have is that medical technology is advancing. And what people have to remember is that they do have a right to make treatment decisions. They do have a right to refuse extraordinary means of prolonging their life and certainly our organization is not in favor of. Hooking people up to machines and going to you know basically keep the body functioning beyond natural death. All right.

Vicki Moore Seth Oregon right to life Jim Williams with the hallmark society we thank you. We will track the progress of. Thank you very much. Thank you. If you had to list your favorite programs on OPB do you have any ongoing favorite programs. I like the mysteries that you have on and your real life programs. And enjoy them in real time real time is one of my favorites. To win. Again don't forget that phone number 293 1998. Now it's time for viewers to look deeply into their knowledge of Oregon's unique historical experience in other words. Get ready for our real time trivia quiz subject of interest this week is a person whose name is still well-known around our state even though he himself hasn't been around for quite a few years now. Here is a picture and

some clues to start you guessing. He didn't have a lot of money when he got here in fact the first wild pioneer claim to have arrived in Oregon in 1851 with a hole in a shoe with enough cash to last for two weeks. He lasted a lot longer than that though when he became so well known today that neighborhood today is named after him. And a question we pose is Who was this man. What is the name of the neighborhood that bears his name. Caller real time telephone line to 9:3 1990 and remember this is not a toll free call so if you're outside the Portland area there will be a charge. But small price to pay for so much fun at least we think so. I plan to call at least 10 times to education education at least 20 times. Last one I did. Anyway that's it for this week's real time. Have a good weekend. We'll see you next week. I. Mean

you went to college on a basketball scholarship. When she was hit by a drunk driver she still claims that she doesn't have a jumpshot. This message is made possible by BlueCross BlueShield of Oregon.