American Experience; Reconstruction: The Second Civil War; Interview with Clarence E. Walker, Historian, University of California, Davis, part 1 of 3

this is bridgett out into smaller questions what assurance reaction to pressure from washington to recruit black man into his own in many ways he was opposed to it that they didn't want to initially they didn't see the war at least people watch german as a war of liberation for black slaves and for black people but i think it also made him confidence that they're on the response of the slave soon to be freed men who come into the human it was a completely unexpected of it and that shoppers are using marched into georgia had enormous number of slaves in its van people who just took up involving army and it's complicating its movement and complicated you know it's the mission to defeat the confederacy that most people training around behind you and getting in the way and they had to because

they also have to be taken care of the center and center i'm becoming of the union armies in general although the armies of in some ways deliverance also armey said come with me ah block property such as it was is stolen or taken away and so when he had this great transformative moment they're not only periods of regulation enjoy there are also moments of great sadness and disillusionment on the treatment because many of them in fighting in the union army had no points with black people for two more of millions dollars of the war the union war is liberation of slaves media bring with prejudices there are deeply

ingrained and they don't really no idea what these people off war black people vary is this sense of expectation that is drowning in a biblical understanding of history when jews share both by white and black people with the black people the period of the civil war raging sixty nineteen sixty five is a moment of enormous transformer genius in their lives in revelations is written to the verge of the lesson less of the first and this is interpreted as that moment is also in terms of also meant also notable stories the story of daniel in the lion's den by joshua and the battle of jericho this is the moment where got in his omnipotence has now come to deliver his people from bondage

all this is derived from a very close reading of the bible or an internal rotation of biblical tales have been handed down in the black community for generations and so this has about a little expectation that he's exceedingly powerful pain we'll continue to sustain these people even talese are moments when they encounter this on the one hand is to liberate and simultaneously beer oppressive in some instances and let's keep going up again from the standpoint of sherman's army from that moment and then i would go back to the freedom of the former slaves but here is the army rolling through perceived by the former slaves after the millennial deliverance very soon targets if you are sherman are you are in the army and

describe what this looks like and what it feels like in the province it is was unforeseen consequences of this wall that no one in washington expected that the union army would never have to deal with what came to be called hard to bear we are slaves who sleep deprived patients to join the army of liberation if the lebanese that they have to be housed they have to be taken care of medically iran in many instances the army's completely unprepared for this so many other union officers there's always the question of whether in some cases they put them to work working on fortifications were eleven they asked people back to work on the plantations in the areas in which the army is carney situated to raise food

ought to offer some ways to get out of their way because the army is not prepared as an agency to take a hit of his great evenings lots of bobs one show nevada to more generally don't forget american sherman was a nineteenth century racist but he had a very low expectations what you and he did not now what really to do with the dead when he just the order fifteen is done as a way of it only these people off his hands and as for all those up a stretch of land south of charleston thirty miles wide it also includes the cia runs he covers the territory of some fourteen thousand acres and always four hundred thousand acres some forty thousand slaves now treatment possible to work out their

destiny as free people this year's been a precursor in some ways although greater process of reconstruction in which there is a full and his vacation that freedom well people will be able to take care of themselves and that they will not be dependent on its own you can't prevent them from keeping up by cutting three years i mean in many cases the army would raise bridges after a crossover that you encountered would blah the movement of slaves or the freedom and now in havana the army from austin rivers of the army it cost can you do that again starting with the idea that he's trying to churn is trying to you

know actively tried to keep them you know apart from the army something like that that we have that at the whole idea joel sherman try at the friedman former slaves apart from his army and many instances the army was deployed in that fashion to pervade the friedman from filing army into new territories in some instances in georgia bridges were raised or caught so that the freedman could not cross over behind the union army thats a leading man if the confederates were coming out in their encounters going to be terrorized by those forces are discouraged and so in many instances from trying to follow this army is on the liberation because it only complicated that on this mission it's a complicated moment and it's really and that the senate floor the motions amazes me aren't here these people to see the nest of the charges

i'm never know like soldiers insurance than at the friedman the former slaves did begin to see black man what are the side effects of yours mean to these former slaves and so when you eat but they had a state now this trial was clearly designed initially as a white man or white family pool the fight between the north and the south with a lot of the past but now theyre black man hey the emblem of the union on their lives now the light been carrying guns and now they would not fighting for the union this would give to black people a stake in american society that they had not had before because they were fighting to preserve the nation

to the slaves they suggested a radical transformation it is social position in southern society in american society he indicated that they will not pass it and their liberation but active participants that the idea which attached politeness as the seventeenth century but by people were incompetent and incapable of doing for themselves their entrance into the struggle in some ways and we have to say in some ways radically alters that psychology both in the white and most importantly it seems to me in the wind the mind of all these soldiers or slips whether you're seven wimbledon in

orange and therefore they are not to be accorded any way the customs or the treatment that you recorded to normal so there's that is a white soldiers they can be killed people the status is right to be citizens of the united states because they have fought to preserve the union in germany this amazing moment takes place in his headquarters in savannah and nine a country who are just introduce us to the ministers through a baptist and methodist preachers they are spokesmen for their community the church's the

center all black community life the very good idea of what they see as their future they understand when joel sherman asked them whether they want to live with whites with a live set from them they understand the racial raises the hairs developed against their people during a soldier in the south and they articulate a point of view but for the moment they think it's best that they lived separately and that in that context they will be able to develop their own abilities their own communities and somehow soft all of the old ways and mark them as slaves survived the old way that what they say the

strategy is to go you go off and live by yourself and it is demonstrate through the us invasion you all are capable of being in the american south that you know he has your masters acclaimed white to switch to direct your life that you are capable of all making decisions for yourself as a slave owner decisions had been made to like people over which they had no control what they ate what they wore and services in the america where they worshiped excel this now is no longer to be the case because understand that three people had

autonomy they're the right choice to be a slave is why these viruses carried out in june chairman was to be someone who had no control over his life's decision and now these people feel the need to express their abilities their choices their worldview which in many cases now the world view and that was the world too many semi yes so we're going to go out and show on washington question for now because there's a different reaction on you doing wonderfully religion change during the construction on elizabeth afford to take on

a path of war is coming to on how this latest cd mission so this latest violence profits at ford told incoming both liberation in the same way you live that jesus was a librarian for the early christians this is their moment of liberation and turn to their churches and particularly the independent water touches the album is a visible church ethan strauss words on a mission that is built temple and spirit spiritual in the sense that it was now comes south to regenerate the bottom is we've been under the control of them is invisible to reset

to bring those people out oh really but says a lot of your image of the world the church wishes to see to it that black people to come productive american citizens it is only through hard work yet as you probably litigation do these sessions sound family life there likely will be able ultimately to some moment to move into the mainstream of american society at that possibility of arrives at ellis church a number like religious institutions in the south indeed as it is commit to a reformation oh the slave population into productive

people with me and the american polity let's go wrong before we get into what the church's mission is um let's talk about the central division in almost everybody's mind in the nineteenth century you know if you could just describe how important contemporary mines it's very hard to start again because that is the thing for contemporary minds and it is very hard to understand how civil religion was the last book was why people in the nineteenth century start again it hasn't in years well i would say that religion was centralizing both black and white people and i think that religion was the center of community life and it wasn't

religion that people came to understand their place in the world religion tara sands that history was of the raising process and that is the context e is a crucial event because god through the agency of a union army is now going to excavate as far as the abolitionists black and white ribbons on the menorah institution of slavery for slaves if there's a similar mean bullies and acting out a host of biblical stories and tales of the hebrew children in bondage in egypt which comes in black american culture to be a lot of these villages deep richard deyo for the lines

and the lines that the story but jocelyn frye of the jerky and hosting duties the concept of black american understanding of their place in the american republic is not exactly a chosen people serving the president and so he had people who in the fullness of time when he delivered from their bondage and delivered in a way but this was not going to be a passive activity on their caught when it would let me in you're working in a dozen white man destroy this institution which was a lot only american national discussion that is to say that he was a

mouse formative institutions that it's slavery on the american national character so the war comes to an end in the north and in the south are like people were fleeing after the end of slavery so here we have in the north the a in nature ej are you looking it you know coming from its own police looking at what's going on inside what it's going to do is be helpful to us if you didn't you say anything can just more generally church that fat piano in your book you're very careful to separate visa but on if you could talk a little bit about how the church so if there's a phrase for more or thinking about writing anymore wrong you know that part of what they're going to do next and it does it at a dinner that pervaded

latinos to christianity at the time to explain then the perfectibility want to resist the block or why the lead un process was moving to ohio and it was this board a better world a car that process would involve of course the destruction of slavery because slavery was one of the barriers that still is an imperfection in american society and slavery and slavery those injustices there the united states was going to obtain the sort of

profession that the founding fathers and others thought that he would have in world history this meeting with his institution had to go now how it was to go in the hotly contested state and initially i think that in the minority is a lot more about slavery because of war also because slavery is the issue which is divided into sections through the early history of reform and certainly immature averaging thirty eve is the issue which comes to dominate the americans have said that the people should understand that they remained even after slavery had a certain attitude that is going to stand in

the way our perfectibility of america and what is that and how they set about what is the mission to fight and when i say they have little expectation i don't mean to say that they were completely and roundup is a deep realization that there is something called prejudice against black people the americans want to see the church understood in a very i think complicated nuanced way the destruction of slavery itself was not an usher in the kingdom but it would not be passing that they had to use the current phrase sees the day and season that day they would be working to

undermine the deed we held prejudices which most white americans in the nineteenth century helped against black people they would be important i want people to be productive citizens they own property that they worked that day have decent family was that at a beauty so it's very interesting that we invite missionaries in the south and appeared after eighteen sixty three they see that many of the free people have already begun to do many of the things that they think are important in terms of the assessment of glasses and ship in yemen's that that these people have set up homes which have more is that the wives stay whole and take care of their children to school

they also see them in going off to work and jobs to provide a conference for their fans and so there he is now in this whole process a passive video on the part of like people live aggressive a solution all their leaves on freedom this involves everything from changing ones maybe that person going to eat foods that you're leaving the plantation and lincoln and places their freedom is certainly in a multiplicity of ways the old patterns of deference wherever it will require because of may be a second there a position to whites that is to say in their interactions of more in their eyes when speaking to a white person these things disappear it also is the case then

they expect if they are married couple to be called mr and mrs are the old southern tradition of calling people by their first name is not something that a number of these people live but what they understand from having observed quite society for generations that is an effective and differences paid married couples and also to individuals who are free and so what you see today is a revolution on the part of many of these people in their psychology about themselves and about their relationship to the broader world and have too many white southerners reacts to different behavior this new behavior that was so good black people no longer conforms to the traditional stereotypes they

no longer seem to be the same people that the summit historic line to know on their whole demeanor seems to be a change and this is very frightening to white suburbs because they claim to know why people david black people themselves they try to a lot of black people to enter the young white people in the united states and now to be confronted with the fact that there's some decisions rested on rather tenuous grounds was a rather frightening situation more the emancipation of the slaves they need it was the fourteenth amendment between free and i am free of collapse completely and so it is now a south that faces the state of racial intolerance

and this is a very frightening thing because for centuries having told herself with your life that these people could not survive without moderation furthermore that they were in need of some kind of control and possibly the most extreme has disappeared is it really as a vehicle without quite rare syndrome creates a moment of crisis a moment of truth in which you have to now confront as a bridge to a minute you know to listen to so and then let's say you're living in very in georgia a man like to his campaign fund comes a month long as he's tall and he's confident he holds himself very powerfully on he's not

afraid if you study what's your reaction to today's campbell who's taking charge of these people and people like for example the minister politicians to gamble were viewed as black people out there puts it this means then that history has somehow spawn a trial that you'd find it very difficult to deal with someone like this because this person is not subservient is not that original at bay for himself in ways they find it hard to believe that a black person could think that way and humorous now most of what happens not only electricity campbell pulls the other black leaders or even your turn john rohr image reveals ge and others really challenges that most basic

suppositions older white south about black people and it has a tendency to reinforce their racism because they cannot explain this in the terms that they would normally have used to sling might be at the fetal anomaly anomalous there are also a serious threat because it it is true that these people are not just representative william all a change actually within the black community and this means their race relations leslie is that most resembles all bases one of song equality but it is very frightening to me why so that they can succeed in sixty six

years the roots be a choice now comes the fall because the hamas for sure is now because the hallmark i think of what was that you have people now who never had the opportunity to take the food that we eat are in some ways because they were given certain staples to eat are you now have the joy of going down to the store and buying a reuben if your woman for your hair or of a dress or of being able to serve for example sardines yeah crackers and other sorts of foods that had not been part of the normal slave diet the saw a little choices of the things that make freedom so new and so exciting for this population

in the same way today he now know all that you don't have to get up before the morning go out to work he is a very very new sensibility for what people in the white world is all interviews as license and it's somehow an indication that the blast will not work and that their idol and wasting their time engaging in expenditures they're really not the homeowner owes and we see here is an enzyme about the class clowns and lack of law that would be defined as white robert it is now seen to be cheered by black people and this is extremely disturbing it becomes an issue over which lights become very anxious because whiteness has been

defined by the word opportunity and now i have to share this with a minority population eat is very unsettling because now who is freed it was not for that coal is no longer a marker of our own freedom in one hundred years that you just for a minute von question back to the nation in the church in this way i'm not sure americans talking with the christian story with my feeling this is the thing and the idea of a church formulating information even before i see it it's almost like secrecy an incident on the stimulant terms what is more i think that that one could call the mission of

these northern churches into the south and you're better than sixty three a crusade and you say in the sense that they want to remake the south in the image of a normal that they think that the culture and the politics of the south were basically progress and that you see the south east to repudiate the union and state equal power it has to be really made in the image of low there is about this region of great cultural imperialism if you walk in which there is a belief that follows anybody regardless of their color re educating in the spirit of the northern province reverend jayne the presiding bishop of the african methodist episcopal church writes about him in which he argues that the south has to be really

reconstruct a lot more progressive law with the creation all an educated middle class black and white or will people did not affect the middle class do you really operate in a world that is free of the old call tool markings of the antebellum south the trouble with that means making millions of the north there was that if i don't i think the point is that this remaking it was hoped woodward to dissipate bigotry ages of hate racial animus he called anyways for the education of the most talented black and white students to get and they like progressive they say

integrate education was not a whole lot asians in their war or in the north in salinas about all this a desire from top to work than just so so in the european union will morph into the nation's elite the latest dc i guess it couldn't work with a struggle with the great lakes against this

idea that where the focus was discovered that the war is being waged in the mines of both a blast and the violations against the wrong moral sentiment of the nation which they define slavery that slavery was an institution which you construct him it targeted both the north and thats because of embodied a four cent on the will of man that slavery was an institution which pulls the possibility of corrupting a broader sense of american freedom they are making the united states something other than a city upon a hill that's a resentment of the world a lot and so there's no moral sentiments is that the exercise through

military combat through re creations were just and equitable saw in education health and have a checkpoint there will be for civil war maybe no more than to fifteen percent of the black population of south was literate and so many people just that's my mormon church's be they black or white going to the south with the stated purpose of establishing schools for the freedman and friedman's children in a sense the mission embodies the great hope of the founders of the republic that the country would have to be based upon a spouse would be based upon a widely educated populace this is the meaning of the word republican doesn't that's republican

vision was rooted in the idea that he would head an educated citizenry that would exercise the franchise for many black people in the south to learn how to read and how to figure out how to somehow well even the world of letters was a revolutionary act because it now gave him the scales did the tools well i think we called that the racism that help resident physicians amy for example a paper like the christian report you see great enthusiasm on the part of the freedom and the issue with respect to education that slavery

had deprived them of the number of the tools that marks you as an american cities and that was necessary if they will take their place as free people with in the union that they have the roots and more lives of education just the thing that interesting way things that the nation would add insult religion but in some instances but despair is felt it was also important that the children of poor whites be educated to seeing him in a counterweight to the attitudes of the old slave dress a massacre

there was a hope that these people realizing that they also were the victims of slavery would somehow want to work with these nations and work with these bluntly this was not to be the case though because the sense of racial divide in sochi in the south of the association with blackness maybe when you look that these people prefer to hang onto their white it cause so then the associated with black people and the missionaries who comes out of work do you mentoring you there was a great answer what id card and start to increase that gives

the nation gives the church what was the reaction from the us and knew what to do and it's just healthier relations to behold ever to educate and somehow status in korean south of free black community provoking retaliatory violence on the partisan elements within southern society and the missionaries uniformly called on the government they say the union army to protect their charges they wanted the government to use these soldiers to provide them with projections of the civil rights and other liberties that they acquired as a result of legislation this

and then disillusionment with the whole reconstruction enterprise that means that the government is not prepared to move decisively as many of these people want to protect these newly established institutions for freedom fb