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What happened after, later on? At the beginning, what was your role? [Rich]: Well, my role was to raise the money and get the publicity. [Interviewer]: Okay, that;s, now let's try and get somewhere in between. [Laughs] [Rich]: Okay. [Interviewer]: That was a little bit too short. But I love the ?inaudible? the energy, ?way you started it?. [Rich]: Okay. yeah, and uh, uh, I I doubt, I- [Interviewer]: Let's start over. So what was your role? [Rich]: My role was to get the publicity and to raise the money that was needed to pay all of the expenses. And the expenses grew uh, very rapidly during the freedom riders, and uh, I did get significant, ya know, hundreds of thousands of dollars on this and uh, wasn't easy, but we did it.
And the publicity --very little came at the beginning, but uh, um, at the end, we got more than we ever anticipated. Uh, this was the period the t.v. was new and we got t.v. coverage and people saw rather than read, and it made a big difference how it influenced them. [Interviewer]: I think one of the things that, that, that that's really interesting is that uh, ya know, t.v. was this national piece, and I think what people sometimes don't understand is that is that you know the papers were basically regional papers, and the Southern papers didn't report on what they didn't want to report on. [Rich]: Listen, St. Louis papers -- St. Louis Post Dispatch didn't report and afterwards, I'm 15 or 20 years afterwards some of their
staff members, uh, started mentioning that. [Interviewer]: So, if you could, if you could uh, just, just ?inaudible? center in St. Louis, but just talk about the fact that, that, that, that the Southern papers, I think in ya know- [Rich]: Yeah. [Interviewer]: Put this in your own words and however you want They didn't report on the kind of underside of segregation, I mean they just didn't talk about it. [Rich]: That's right. Um, in those days most of the newspapers wherever there was organized discrimination, the Southern papers did not report what was going on; they did not report the impact of discrimination on their citizens. And, uh, so that in a certain sense, everybody assumed that the other people
are for what is going on and therefore we can't change it, and that was very bad. [Voices in background]: ?inaudible? Cut. [Interviewer]: ?Okay?, we covered into you and that was part- what, what, what was, do you remember what was like the, the, your most memorable phone call? [Rich]: I really don't remember... well in a certain sense the most memorable one is one that came after uh, the burning bus in Anniston and the people called me- a call from Birmingham; someone was in Fred Shuttlesworth's church and they called and all the tension...the bus had
been bombed in Anniston; other people got to Birmingham and we- The press had called us before, but in a certain sense I was hearing that some of our people are- I knew they were alive, but still... talk to a real human being and it- it was, uh pretty awful. Uh, most of the others were rather things like, uh, I'm passing on information that somebody, uh, [Interviewer]: Let me ask you to start over. ?inaudible? Every once and a while there's a bus stop right outside, ?inaudible? a bad, a bad bus thing going on. Uh, let me ask you about- I want to ask you about Anniston. If you could tell me- you know, if you just could go back the in your memory and talk about- cause that's really the first bad one. What's, what's your memory of a how you
heard that things had gone seriously wrong in Anniston? [Rich]: Well, I got calls from the press before a I got calls from anyone else. Uh, and so I knew what was going on, except you don't know at the very- [Interviewer]: Okay so you're in the office, wherever your are...how did you find out about Anniston? [Rich]: I was in the office and I got a phone call from the press and started getting a lot of them and and they didn't have any details really. And I didn't at that point. But, they need some kind of statement about how awful this was and uh, then I got a call from Fred Shuttlesworth, the Reverend Fred Shuttlesworth in Birmingham and a couple of the core people were on, and I got more details and
I was calmed down a little bit because I was very upset of course and I didn't know all the details, and they didn't because, ya know ?there was some? one's on a Greyhound bus and one's on a Trailways bus. But we started getting things toge- and work to do ?inaidible?, couldn't spend time getting excited, uh. But, I was and uh, it was awful. And when ultimately when i heard that ?Jim Peck? was hurt seriously; his face was hurt, and later on I learned it was 47 stitches and stuff. But uh, he came back and uh, papal documents and i'm going to get other things that they've been doing then those few hours were awful.[interviewer] How did you learn the bus was destroyed???
well i heard that from the press bus had been put on fire and i didn't know anything more than that for a while and then patients started coming in from all over no and we had some older people on the bus the Bergman's were there and they're sick well He was sixty one or sixty two when she was fifty seven but then... we don't want to have them in a burning bush the amendment people were beaten and a bus station and they didn't know how badly that was the weather people have broken bones and josh didn't know the
not knowing was very very difficult [interviewer]was that thought that you guys made mistake???? No. didn't think it at all. Uh, you know no no a day later the question is how do we continue ??? what we do then you know and began to sink in and we were there for it we've got with the people on the first on those two buses and got out and got to New Orleans but then the question and someone then the question was so what has to be done like Jim Peck was brought to
New Orleans and he got out and but now Jim Farmer ??? head left to ride in too much detail when we were because at some points in Birmingham. There is the decision to call off the ride Talk about that decision and what was the feeling? I mean, it must have been a terrible feeling to say, you know, we've got to call off this thing. [MARVIN RICH]: Yeah, and it was a terrible feeling to- think we have to get these people back out of harm's way. But there was also the feeling
that we can't let it stop there. And then the question is how do we reconstitute it? on and nobody, you know, really knew. Jim Farmer was coming back -- he'd been away because his father died -- and he was someone who could command respect and attention. but how do we do it that we do it right away to waste go back and a month later delivered you know there are all kinds of questions and we weren't sure and and part of the people from Nashville they said they would come and help and that they would bring people in and that's
made it easier than to do what we ultimately did. [INTERVIEWER]: I want to ask that question again, because I don't want to talk about Nashville. I want to have it be two different, different things at??? ????three point either to or were big turn off the heat because it makes too much noice. ??? seriously . I want to just talk about the feeling of having done stop the rise without knowing you know what's going to happen next that that they are going to continue. Can I say that? No, i don't want you to talk about them continuing. I want you to talk about them stopping. Do you understand what I'm saying?Ok. ok. So talk about the decision because that in some always oh you know people get so below and and things go so crazy in Alabama. That you know what was the feeling
you mean you have to cut off the racks. Yeah I think we had to get those freedom riders out of the situation they were in they were they were bleeding they were beaten and we didn't know what else was coming and we knew what had happened in Anniston both the burning of a bus and the beating of people in the station i am not everyone was current a lot of people were hand seriously and we knew we came to the conclusion that we have done get those people out. What was the feeling ? You know in back in New York in the office when you know you having such the
stop this rise. Well that's not what we had anticipated it's not something that we believe it when you can any way in advance that would happen or could happen and it was so you back there? No, we were??? we're getting close Talk about wow they probably mentioned earlier Mississippi. Uh it seems one of things that that is that that that the plan was in Mississippi was the kind of drain the freedom rides of money money uh that seems to put a lot of pressure
pressure. Oh, the Mississippi situation was very difficult every freedom rider under that their state law uh the people were charged with disorderly conduct ahead to paying they'll cost them five hundred dollars by the fortieth day or else they would be convicted and would have this van?? who knows how much jail time in jail uh and then people who paid the forty dollars would send out of jail we had to find money to transport them
home then thirty or forty days later something like that we had to pay a roundtrip usually a bus ticket so that that they could come up to re match and then we tried to get the arraignment canceled or done by lawyers but we didn't succeed in and then they had to come back again for a trial so that the cost was five hundred dollars plus like to round trips that's a lot of money and by then there were literally hundreds of freedom riders and to them raising that money was not easy I mean we had help and harry belafonte for instance a did a fundraiser and things like that they're andy norman longest hundred thousand dollars of
which we only paid him back forty six thousand the other fifty four thousand when I told we were having trouble he's had Marvin forgot about it think of all the goods were good we have done with that money so he made and forty six thousand dollars contribution so just in general terms what did you do to raise the money? Then I want to talk about individual people . Well first we did direct mail we set out the fund appeals to everybody on our mailing list france fleeing we ultimately uh the legal defense fund took over the responsibility for the paying the lawyers they head and to them some of the bail money
and things that loosen we get a lot of the fundraising in the north with individuals who have money and who had friends who have money and it worked uh though was always touch and go because for mining was going out of this there were if people were on the freedom rides and were being arrested there are more people at the ap paid for in one way or another ok, it's Why was the the court cases Mississippi so expensive? Mississippi law permitted require it disorderly conduct cases a bail
caucus had to be paid within forty days five hundred dollars so that's five hundred dollars for each person then there was travel back and forth for arraignment and for trial and it came to two hundred people like anglers several hundred thousand dollars all tolled. What is that you commission was that that that that you were absolutely nothing in New York.???yeah we were sending we had rented the bus and we were sending back to Mississippi people who had for their arraignment handgun we were loading them on the bus park park row which is where the office was two people came out of the bar and the
us so what's going on here and someone started talking about let's they said you sons of bitches and started hitting end three other people were already on the bus and they hit me [laugh] me and one other person and they just not just down and then other people started rushing out than the police doctor so i wasn't seriously hurt but i was knocked down a reminder of what could happen? Ask you one more time. Did I say that again. I'm sorry ???? New York city so I need you to say about New York City??? buses were somebody say about freedom rights??? Ok. We ?core? had arranged for
buses to take people going back for arraignment or trial and once in New York City I was loading people onto a bus and two guys come out of a bar and started asking questions and all of a sudden i'm not to the ground they're having Why? Because they didn't like us they thought that we were going wrong find out the good fight so there was That kind of animosity even in New York City? Yes, there was that kind of animosity in New York City. It's something you wouldn't believe but it's true. I was always wondering about Jim Farmer. You know we watch some films and stuff when he's talking. He seem like a real kind of piece of work. And some people said that you know he had his own personal ambitions. What do you think about that?
Well I, look, he is a human being He had personal interests and so on. I knew him for many years He , uh, I had advocated are bringing him to core and I supported that very much he he does articulate, comes from ministry background. His father was a minister and he had worked for the fellowship of reconciliation. He also worked for the labor movement I think he is pretty terrific guy he's a ???good speaker a lot better than me. Ok, that good. continue after Birmingham. Then yeah uh sneak people a lot of people coming in from snack in from core. I took tension between core and snack. These are two different groups. We can talk about the good times. You don't
to have to tell me that. I know there were a lot of ??? but there was some tension there. Well there's always tension uh because people say their organization isn't getting as much publicity as the other organization or so on and on the whole i think was pretty good Nashville was particularly important because those people were really committed to nonviolent direct action and not everyone in snack was of course byers and now not everyone in core worst of times change but the there was tension here and some of it is between individuals in a given state and in fact for instance later but not Mississippi was divided up and there were five congressional districts in the state
court for quan and snake took together for and so that we had geographical turf and that was a way of avoiding tension but they're you know tension is inevitable and there was tension in that period. I mean some ways Tell about the fact about the decision of of the snake people to come down from Nashville lot of these people were kind of you know there'd been battle tested ??? Sure, yeah oh yeah oh yes well that was the absolutely true Diane Nash Jim Bevel these were people who and John lewis's had come from that group so we knew we knew John and certainly trusted him somewhat but then there was also tension you know you say there are internal tensions within chorus line we pulled out
there coming in and we're not pulling out you know we're gonna get back breaking in and together and that that was that tension in a certain sense was good because ??? there was a failure he's on course part period then there was a joint effort with the freedom ride correlating committee was set up and and Nashville and core and snack work together now petrou says we did the fundraising and the but that's all right and they provided a lot of for the manpower and that was important
and they came in in a crucial moment and that was important and the truth is the individuals who went on to New Orleans uh they needed to go and the new core people many of them were from New orleans court where a very good core group and didn't and so that when the rides resume to a lot of people came from New Orleans core ??? So there was some good in there but there was some tension. Yeah the tension was not always bad Why? Well because of the situation in part in part because for the people and of aid and if you really believe in non violent direct action when you can't spend too much of your time talking about
thinking yourself important but it's important Great! Thanks! fb
Series
American Experience
Episode
Freedom Riders
Raw Footage
Interview with Marvin Rich, 3 of 3
Contributing Organization
WGBH (Boston, Massachusetts)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip/15-h41jh3f308
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Description
Description
Marvin Rich helped to organize a local chapter of CORE at Washington University in St. Louis. He went on to become CORE's national director of Community Relations in New York and held that position during the Freedom Rides.
Topics
History
Race and Ethnicity
Subjects
American history, African Americans, civil rights, racism, segregation, activism, students
Rights
(c) 2011-2017 WGBH Educational Foundation
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Moving Image
Duration
00:30:16
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Release Agent: WGBH Educational Foundation
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Identifier: barcode357557_Rich_03_SALES_ASP_h264 Amex 1280x720.mp4 (unknown)
Duration: 0:30:00

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Duration: 00:30:16
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Citations
Chicago: “American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Marvin Rich, 3 of 3,” WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 28, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-h41jh3f308.
MLA: “American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Marvin Rich, 3 of 3.” WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 28, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-h41jh3f308>.
APA: American Experience; Freedom Riders; Interview with Marvin Rich, 3 of 3. Boston, MA: WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-h41jh3f308