Say Brother; Struggle in South Africa; 253; Say Brother: Struggle in South Africa

Say brother is a program by and about the black community. Two weeks ago I'm a caucus leader of the movement known as the African party for the independence of Guinea in Cape Verde Islands. P A G C was assassinated in front of his home. Nearly a year ago and say Brother we showed you a

film of the liberation forces and again he was so. And on that same film is an interview with a Call Cobra. We'll see that film again tonight along with a discussion with Gil Fernandez aide to go brow was in New York last year to appeal to the United Nations to aid in preventing some of the atrocities the colonial forces of the Portuguese were committing in Guinea but so. As you know there were demonstrations in front of the Portuguese consulate here in Boston last week. We have film of that too. And also on tonight's show we'll talk with Chris and Ted about the future of the war of liberation in the southern part of Africa. My guest tonight is Mr. Gil Fernandez representative of the EPA IGC. Mr. FERNANDEZ Welcome to say brother. Thank you. We just watched a film that was shot. In Guinea was so it was shot by a British company. How would he able to get into the country and shoot that film so were about to happen to you.

There were some time ago asking if they could come and make some kind of a movie on going to be and then I would tell them yes we can come. We have nothing to hide you know on this score and then they came and then they made the movie was not going to attach to it. We only got out of it a copy of the movie at the time you know in 1968. You want some kind of propaganda in England because we've been fighting for the last 10 years. But yet nothing you really know about that with trouble. So this kind of thing that would help a little bit. Why would you want probably again in England because of good aid been given to Portugal also by England. You know we've been England and Portugal and I've got an old Elias and or by you know a data support Portugal. So using it you want to English people to know when to say it will of course not to the English Government and these people you see so now you know. When I read information on Guinea-Bissau and what's happening it's said that the three major comp countries that are supporting the Portuguese. Are you the United States Britain and France

and yet you allow members of a British company to come in and to film your activities now. How are you going to God from having. Your military secrets revealed in this kind of thing because you know you know that thing they're kind of they have but you know you know you cannot help it but if you do some kind of propaganda you have to take a chance in it. We took a chance but that's the day they left to turn things around you know the number of men in the pool and things like that and so you know you take everything you know they can actually everything but you know you're taking a chance when you're sending people inside to find out what's going on. You see taking a chance. You were born in Guinea-Bissau. Yes I was going to be so top Tell me about. Guinea-Bissau what what is it like. Well I'm going to be so has been coming for to you for about five things already and in 1963 about the ninety nine point seven percent of the population cannot read or write and they gave their very very flat land between Senegal and Republic and at one

point in 1955 we form a party trying to see if we could get some kind of welfare rights you know from the government and then we made a petition to the UN. We wrote the government. And did nothing and you know came out of it and then in 1959 we had a we call a strike on the back of the dockworkers. And then the management called police and then they came and they shot everybody in the picket line and shot them. Everybody on the picket line every worker. So as a result in all 50 of them got killed and more than 100 injured and then from that time on we we understood that it would be impossible to talk you know the government like a blow to government you know to government and then only the kids with party went to the countryside and tried to mobilize the peasantry from 59 up to 63. We did nothing

but just in talking to the peasants and mobilize in the present day in day out. Then the same thing you know that during the day during the night. For a week for a month and for four years and and when we understood what that was all about we launch a struggle and right now we are controlling. Two thirds of the countryside of going to the south. Tell me I want to talk more about that but I want you to tell me about just soften a bit now. You were you were educated in your country where you are. Yeah I was I was but I belong to that small clique you know that small elite which you know were able to get an education. Because they're having about the. 99 percent of people not able to read or write. Somebody asked to do a little hard to read and write. So they were using in a very small minority that they would give education to and then use them

to rule the population. So my grandfather and my father and so on that belong to a small clique and then also the big you know grooved you know being you know shaped. To be able to be some kind of an officer in the government of Portugal and then you know been able to. To use me through. What happened to you what how did you I could not see myself fitting into that pattern because I saw your father did your grandfather. Yeah but what happened to you things are changing. I could not see you know that that the punishment being committed by the means. That I should be part of it. So I reject it completely. And as you know my name is jihad Fernandez which is typically a Portuguese name and there is nothing I can do about it you know. But I reject completely you know whatever they have to offer me as a Portuguese and not the Portuguese I'm an African.

Primarily you went to an American university. Yes I spent about four years in New Hampshire just in New Hampshire and then I went down to American diversity in D.C. for my Emmy and I went back to the struggle the other Guinea-Bissau is that place and it's not that big not to really know. I was the only one coming here you're the only one I have the tendency you know people coming here and not going back you know. And maybe it was with some more people here that I would have stayed here. Unfortunately people go into Iraq and so on and do to get union into German don't come back. The struggle you see we are forming a nation the same time they will come back let's talk about the struggle some more are you getting military support. Of course yeah we get them primarily from the EU Organization of African Unity. We're abide never a common fund which they give every year money to get it funded that is given to us. None other than that you know we have no arrangement but actually

Geria Guinea Mauritania and Zambia also bilaterally and they didn't do that you know you want to get them some support from Soviet Union from Sweden and maybe shortly from Finland and Denmark also. Are you are you struggling to to to change the country politically. Or are you trying to really establish a new country. I'm not trying to taint the men and I think that they're going to be able to do it. Change of mentality of the people trying to build something you know you make them thing new without going from into an established black government. Definitely definitely going for a complete independence from the Portuguese UK. Now now what about peoples of African descent around the world particularly in the United States. Are you do you find that they are in any way interested in what's happening.

Do you are you know what they are in for but being a very poor country and not having enough money for propaganda abroad or fighting thought well known but I think that in the future. We sent somebody here to try to talk about the Black Sea and see what can be done about it. We we having a common struggle. So you're right in a manner of speaking next door to the Republic of Guinea. What's the difference from Guinea-Bissau in the Republic of Guinea in culturally What's the difference difference. Not very much difference you know not very much although you know you used to define you know different tribes you know in different areas. But if you go near the border they sort of overlap and the only area was divided between Portugal and France and France looking sort of part of it was now independent and then what is to the northern part of it which at no point is going to even though they've been there you know for the last five centuries. And France only 40 75 100 years in and I think after the

ghost of Berlin this I don't know. But the something African in France it took you know his share of it and took in the beginning Republic but is more or less an impact of people kind of mentality. Anyway are you winning a war to persuade So far we are winning and I think that at this point that really can stop us and that an ally probably with an axe and saw fit to go to authorities and give more money to Portugal because if you fight you know the guerrilla war is not only what you do in the in the battlefield that will count. That's very important. But then if you can dream becoming of the enemy and right now you don't really have them up against the wall don't have the money to keep the war going on for 10 years in Angola Mozambique and in Guinea. So at this point they need money so I went to seem to be doing in those orders and then they and then we can get that to give a panel of four to go. What half a billion dollars.

U.S. tried to give him I have to look don't be giving there will be more to go. Half a billion dollars and was the purpose of this money. Apparently some kind of aid. Portugal went to one of the resources in going to so I mean why is Portugal so interested in that little 13000 square mile area very small and you know some block site but it's primarily agricultural country but the problem not the problem the problem isn't going to do it by a large and very rich and Mozambique. And then you know they have you know Dan domino theory. If we lose the will to be losing gold in Mozambique. So they're trying to hang on to get it so you're going to right now they're making something like you know only four million dollar to know at the beginning but the military they are they spending 80 million dollars a year to keep Beginning today the contradiction you know if they didn't stay in and I think I would only four million Americans are down in the Domino Theory strategically Greenpoint and then you know it would be

a very bad precedent. You know a bunch of Africans can get organized and through physically and militarily you know regime out of the continent like you know and in fact in South Africa and in fact in Rhodesia and probably an effect here. So you know my good black side is here really bad ideas and tell me do you have family still and denies that have I feel how are you concerned about their safety. And you know what. There's nothing I can do about it. It's supporting the revolutionary movement or are they still part of the status and I don't know I don't see them at all I haven't seen them for last 20 years. How long have you been in this country. I've been here for the last four weeks probably. And where were you before. Well I wasn't going to be held before and I'm going back to going to be talking about three or four how you're able to travel so freely freely what can I get around.

I said you know I could be talking to the president of a country that oh I hope not. I mean do you have a government all established and whatnot at this point ready to move into any time you know that the route to quit we can take over the country. So we were ready for it. The question has been raised often that the Africans in many of these areas on equipped to run their own country how or how well you know if we could provide them for 10 years. Should be enough to keep the country know. That they have you know right now you know about 35000 men troops put sizable beginning in what population that's an awful lot of men and they having something like the only 4000 settlers. So they're using the god in the foresight to see if we can in a fairly by fend off you know and fight with Tainio we should be able to govern ourselves.

Now if you are successful do you plan to to then take a long look at Angola and Mozambique and to get involved militarily in those areas. Oh I don't know really but we are already involved in that we don't go to Mozambique because we we have a common organisation that would be proud that I'm going to be and we help each other. Information extend the document and we we collaborate very closely. So if they happen to be free before us and then by Thought see Portugal invaded the Republic of Guinea they must've used it was so as their launching point. You know that controlling right now mostly the towns and cities that controlling it. So when they they invented Guinea they're coming from going to be taught in the film from the copper from the south and one of the names you know of the Soviet invasion was a good three for being a very progressive you know regime in West Africa

trying to deal with throw him and at the same time you know if they could have killed our leader and then you know finish up you know there would be a GC with our movement but then you know the one thing that if. I have a question I want you to answer it briefly. Recently you brought two brothers from Guinea. Trustees and you committed against them. One had his ear. Both of them cut off is that right one torch and one was burned. Yeah. What what effect did it have on the people at the United Nations. Well I've been there you know because normally when you're talking to them we don't have any kind of evidence. We do only talking what they know and they would meet and torture would you know the thing about it you know. So this time I brought it from evidence and I think that in the long run you have some effect. I thought that right no but in the long run you probably will see that no matter who you are you know when you thought you know what you have cut off you know burned by napalm it will provoke

some kind of reaction on you. Well Mr. FERNANDEZ we're out of time thank you for coming all the way from New York and Guinea was so to talk with us. I wish you much luck. Thank you very much. Thank you and I think you're right. I'm talking with Christian Caryl of the Pan African liberation Committee. Chris two weeks ago a McCall was assassinated. First of all why was he says unaided and who did it. Well as to the why I think it can be safely said that the Portuguese government is now desperate because of all the revolutions that African revolutions are facing. Mozambique and Guinea Bissau the one in Guinea Bissau is the most progressive the most successful. And we see here

an example of a government that's so desperate that it will use any tactics to try and stem that revolution. Among other things it has been proved that the Portuguese have used chemical warfare. They've used napalm they've used fragmentation bombs they've used poison to poison streams and lakes and rivers. They have destroyed the natural vegetation. And now they are. Assassinating the leaders of the movement hoping thereby to either stop the movement discourage people intimidate others and so forth so that I think this is the basic reason behind this assassination. Just as three years ago February of 69 of Mozambique was assassinated by Portuguese agents when he was

dying as we see here on our tree limb an aide to the leadership hoping thereby to achieve the end of stopping the revolution. As to who did it. The recent issue of Newsweek magazine which came out this week gives a very very amazing story. They devote two pages to the revolution in southern Africa and they go into the reasons behind assassination. Their story contends that Kaberle was assassinated by members of his own party the African party for the independence of Guinea and Cape Verde. And that the fact that these Cape Verdean. And the majority of members of this group are black Africans from the mainland was the cause for this intense

power struggle. Now there have been other reports in The New York Times and so forth. But the correct story is that which was reported by President of the Republic of Guinea because this assassination took place in the capital of the Republic of Guinea Conakry. The story is that certain Portuguese agents and the black Guinea Indians where. And carriage to infiltrate the IGC and they did this successfully and it was these agents who are responsible for the matter of Cobre. Now this should be a true story because it is said of that they were captured in three boats as they were leaving the Republic of Guinea to go back to Guinea Bissau the Republic of Guinea Navy

intercepted those three boats. I arrested the agents who had just murdered and captured a few several of his aides. So those people are in custody in the Republic of Guinea. And President said go to a committee had been appointed to investigate further. The reasons behind this assassination. But it can be truly reported here that the U.S. magazine is trying to confuse people into believing that rather than that the Portuguese are behind the assassination the assassination is the result of some power struggle tribal or otherwise. There's a firmness among Western people and the Western media to say anything that happens in Africa that is bad is because of tribalism you know Intel our power struggles and that kind of thing. Chris OK what's going to happen now to the liberation movement.

Yeah well I would see the loss of Kaberle is going to be felt because in many ways the measures up to some of the leading work of leaders like Sherry Vajra in Cuba. Mouths and others being African has not been given that that status of a leading a good tactician. But there's no question in my mind that here we had a man who knew. The tactics of guerrilla warfare. Who organized one of the most refined forms of guerrilla warfare in the history of the world. So in that sense I think the movement is going to survive Have you lost one of its chief thinkers one of these

activists one of its chief exponents but I think as in the case of Mozambique where where one line was killed that did not stop the revolution. If anything it encouraged the the people to struggle towards the goal and objective that their fallen leader had indicated. So I feel that the fact that I had not. Arrogate a dream self. The duty of directing and guiding the revolution sides that the revolution was in his head and when he goes the revolution dies. He had used democratic principles in military political economic and and other spheres to involve as many people in Guinea as possible so his growing is not in any way going to mean that there won't be new leadership to prosecute the struggle. And you know directed to its

ultimate goal which is the liberation the independence the self-determination of a people we have for five centuries been under Portuguese colonial rule. It seems that our media when reporting these kinds of stories HRA imply that out of every generation perhaps one man is intelligent enough to lead people who are oppressed. Yes I would say. You know in every generation there are outstanding men men who stand head and shoulders above. You know there are companions in that sense I would classify that he was in many ways superior. Being intelligence wise and otherwise. But that does not mean that he hasn't shared some of his feelings some of his aspirations some of his thoughts about the revolution. To people who had been working with him and in this way I think.

The revolution can still go on and still achieve it's and even though he's gone. So the project is I think have been frustrated if their goal and objective was to stop the revolution by killing the head of the revolution. That revolution has no one here. It's a hydra headed monster which is the product. He's going to deal with it. There was some talk that he was thinking about declaring it was an independent nation. Will this happen right on October the 17th in New York. Are nouns that face to that popular elections based on universal suffrage. We're going to be having early in November in Guinea. And that popular national assembly composed of the 80 members from the masses and 40 members from the party was going to be formed. That took place early November. He further

said he was going to declare Guinea-Bissau an independent African state soon. Now to the best of my knowledge that had not been done yet. And the reason for declaring Guinea-Bissau independent is because as he said back in 68. Guinea the country of Guinea Bissau is. Has a situation where the people I have almost completely liberated the territory except that the Portuguese still retain control of you know certain outposts like you know the capital and various others. But to all intents and purposes Guinea Bissau has gone back to its illegitimate owners who are the black people in Guinea Bissau. And it's that reason and the success of the liberation movement which led shortly before is there to announce that our

going is going to be proclaimed an independent country. The other thing is that the you the United Nations has in some way endorsed this really in two ways First the general assembly voted 90 to 6. Two I have. The liberation movements of Mozambique and Golan Guinea-Bissau regarded as the authentic representatives and voices of people in those countries. And that in matters dealing with those countries the liberation movements in those countries should be recognized as the legitimate you know governments almost of those countries. Secondly there was another vote in the general assembly in a committee of the General Assembly dealing with an army BIA and Zimbabwe and the Portuguese colonies to say when matters relating to those

countries I discussed the liberation movements in the Portuguese territories. I'm going to be given the status no longer of being petitioners but of being observant switches the higher you know category and Kaberle on the 17th of October was the fairest speaker at the United Nations to speak as a representative of the liberation movement so that internationally too there is a recognition of the fact that in Guinea-Bissau at least. The people who have now are taken over substantially from the Portuguese. And when the United Nations which is a very well it has been called a debating society. You know I give such recognition. It means you did that because there was ample evidence to prove that Guinea Bissau had become free. And so let me also remark that in the vote 90 to

6 of the countries which voted against that measure where South Africa Portugal Great Britain United States France and Brazil. Now our focus on the United States the United States has consistently frustrated any moves on the part of international bodies to deal effectively with the with the Portuguese government. With respect to its core values in in Africa and here again we see another example of how this country expressing itself at its highest level at the United Nations votes against measures and resolutions that would hire and expedite the revolution in southern Africa and Guinea Bissau. They do it diplomatically through the U.N. militarily through NATO economic value through encouraging United States corporations to trade and do business in Portuguese territories. And then of course

technical aid of one kind or another has been given training of Portuguese officers in various places in this country is going on even now. And given this kind of evidence one cannot escape the conclusion that the United States foreign policy with regard to African countries is very very negative and something has to be done about it. CHRIS Why is United States supporting Portugal. Well Guinea-Bissau is a small country country in a lot earlier. Right. Very few resources. Right. Why. Well I think you have to see it in a broader context. It isn't just going to be so there's a lot of very very wealthy. Country One of the wealthiest countries in Africa there's an oil there's gold those that are diamonds iron and so forth. Then there's Mozambique a big country vast resources. So it's a

package and the United States support stems out of it. Not that factor but there is a natural resources to be exploited there. And then another thing I think is racism. We cannot but help our noticing especially with the present administration. The fact that some very racist things that go on and we have to be honest and blunt about these things when dealing with black people in Africa. This government of the United States with regard to black people in this country hasn't shown any you know Ziad to you to have as Patrick Moynihan said benign neglect I need leg. Chris you know you mention a black Americans are they concerned with what's happening in the southern part of Africa and those you meet. What's your feeling that very much so I think there's a growing. Feeling of solidarity and support for especially the

situation in southern Africa all throughout the country there are groups black groups emerging collecting funds doing all kinds of things. Their march in Washington to which you went last year in May was testimony more than you know ample testimony to the interest that black Americans are showing there were more than 25000 legs went down to Washington that if one had to vote with their feet it was you know sounds like a case I've been working with various groups on this especially in the area which is very important in the area of forcing United States corporations to get out of southern Africa. This is where you know it's all at. I mean we can DREs funds we can raise medical supplies and so forth but those are piddly compared with say what Jill Fernandez was saying to you last January. Yes. That the United States for instance and of 71 gave

four hundred thirty six million dollars to Portugal. Now how much can we as black people in this country raise. Nothing like forty six million dollars. So that the only effective way we can make a contribution is not giving little you know few dollars you have in there but probably getting these corporations out because it's these United States corporations and other foreign corporations that are giving aid and support to point you go. And I saw the African Trade Unions to continue their struggle against black people. And Chris thank you very much for coming on say brother and we hope that we can support you in the future. Thank you thank you very much. Thank you.