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where weare todayto me theimportant thing to keep in mind is that just after the revolution and that slavery wasin a state of disarray at least in the border south for botheconomic and it a logical reasons was that slavery was on the ropesbut an older very important states like virginia which of course had amajority of blacks an age of revolution virginia's moving toward cereal crops away fromtobacco or wheat is less labor intensive and so suddenly plant isneeded less workers and not more workers in a planter like or washington whohad large numbers of africans or african americans having too many mouths tofeed on the plantation was a recipe for economic disaster and alsois much as the founding fathers tried to qualify and limit
their theories and announce that all men were created equal but then say well really talking aboutall free men all men all citizensis as soon as you postulate universal theories all people have certainkinds of natural rights than slavery becomes a problemin a class based world an old european world of the american colonial world whicheverybody knows their place having people who are less than others whodidn't the israelis are outside the logical norm but as soon as you startannouncing this is a whole new kind of country a brand new republic based on theidea that everybody has certain natural rights that didn't get takenaway from them and then start to announce that but in fact somepeople are less than others for reasonable ancestry or race that is toannounce that there is a contradiction in the american experiment and there's nodoubt that many the founding father was their mind about one third of all people who signed the declaration of
independence were slave holders felt if not guilty at leastuneasy about the fact that they're announcing his principles and then not living up to them andmany of them but that the patriots believed that these words werelong term goals to work toward that but nonetheless they had announced that everybodywas equal and then they didn't practice that hearrived at a lot of contradictions because of jefferson'simage in washington problem that he hadmadeit means that they havewith their job isn't always believedalways stated in any case that the right of one man to holdanother is property wasn't a legitimate form of property it from his earliest public
pronouncements johnson announced that there was something profoundly wrong with the entireconcept of slavery like most virginiansof his day in class city that virtually impossible to live withoutall this on free labor jefferson like to say he was to be judgedby his deeds and not by his words but the sad fact is when it came to slavery andwas a celebrated pen that that sounds wonderfully guy a tear in the tijuana fact when itcomes to action and he did very little jefferson clearly feltguilty about owning other people's property even as he wrote the mostfamous declaration announcing that everybody was born free andequal and has grown within light like many of his generation he foundexcuses to explain why wells was a problem but that is something he was he wasreally stuck with jefferson would blame everybody else for slavery was george
a third in the british government to include forced african labor on thecolonies and and most of all that he created very elaborate explanationsfor why it was that blacks were biologically inferior made that word finally at oddswith the eighteen century enlightenment thought that have recently been polly genesis hebelieved people had been created a different time sort of want to say wellif blacks were created the same area as anglos that over time may have assistedevolved and had become a lesser spees says if there was onecommon idea and enlightenment he was at all humankind was basicallysimilar incentives and when in the face of that idea i think thatlike his old enemy patrick henry who once and there was no doubt that they're holding slaves wasimmoral that but does it was so inconvenient live without themthe jefferson had to find excuses for why he said one thing and practiced
another and so his answer was that that that africans and their descendants were biologicallyinferior to ngos and therefore they were essentially children who knows hisresponsibility is duty to care of these people who simply couldn't care for themselvesin a free world i think good many villages and generation tried touse those kinds of arguments is way of explaining how you can have arepublic based upon the consent of the governed yet help people in that societywho don't have those kinds of ridesthepoembeforeit's hard for americans to understand this nowbut in the seventy nine he's noticed it's he's number one trading partnerwhich is not to say of course that that mattel accused syria
of intensive that we are not and sincei'm not a purple glowand seventy nine united states was haiti's number one trading partner those are a great deal ofbusiness conducted between the mainland woodson all kinds of raw materials for the islandand he would say and sugar so says a great deal ofmobile of people in and goods and seventy nine daysso we went homewhen the haitian revolutionbroke out and refugees from cities than call send a manreally began to flee toward united states they arrived in thenorthern states as well but primarily in the southern states especially in virginia and south carolinait's empty ninety two and seventeen ninety three waves of refugees it's thousands andthousands came and sometimes they brought with them their slaves they get the slaves out there seventy nine to
five to about twelve thousand african slaves living on the american mainland bring withinnews i'm ed and reports about what was happening on the islandtradeall the americannewspapers and current events and sandman in a great deal of detail allamericans understood what was happening there and for blacks in and whites that theywere very different responses obviously it was and the debt therevolution and send a man taught mainland slaves to be rebellious or or to resist their bondage italways done so typically as individuals who stole themselves and ran awaysometimes in smaller group to try to get to the frontier in and build more room colonies in and rebuild africansocieties but the revolt in santa mahmoud was qualitativelydifferent the revolutionaries and sentimental about the song overture were trying to
not really pulled on the power of her absentee masters but join thosemasters on equal footing in the atlantic world and revolting inhaiti remind american slaves who are still enthusiastic about thepromise of seventy and seventy six that not only could liberty be there as ifthey were brave enough to try for it but that the quality of the master class might betheirs if they're brave enough to tryalthough conditions were very different in sandman is it's an enormous black majoritysentimental chump about twenty four thousand heavily armed white overseers and four hundred and eightthousand africans and african americans that nonetheless it was a a terrifyingprospect especially to south carolina the only state that had a bike majority in the years after the
revolution on it the violencethat was taking place and sandman reminded americans who are whothey themselves greeted their revolution the midst of enormous violence thatthese things could always happen in that slaves at any moment were really try toseize their own freedom the plan to cause an age of revolution never believed for amoment that the blacks were happy in their condition and wouldn't cry for freedom the waythat that white planters and then the eighteenth thirties and forties tried to convince themselvesthat that the slaves loved this situationamericans who lived through the american revolution understand this was a violent world and theslaves were held in place only by white military power and i was coming unglued and send a manso for you know for why you knowwhat it means for the united
states thatis funny that that sets it is shutting down to rebuild northern tradewith that since the administration's very very friendly with was an amendmentdoes that something you really wantwhen asked it againthe start to some over to or was discussing all the american newspapers he was paintedit and both terrifying but but but also a very competent terms as there was no doubt that thedecider knew what he was doing for me black americans said this was a terriblyexciting moment to moment of great inspiration and for the southern plant a class was moment thenorms terrorit was often depicted
in some and they said again to some over to her was often depicted in southern newspapersas a black napoleon iii as somebody who really knew what he wasdoing the planter class was scared of him but had no doubts he knew exactly how to get what hewanted and of course his name over to or is a name that debt is sold as applied to himthat this was a man who always found his opening as a slave his name was to celebrate because hisblond braid a plantationin the southernwhite mind to sign over to or was a terrifying but very competent figurehas depicted in newspapers sort of a black napoleon somebody who can alwaysfind his opening somebody who'd always be successful in battle there was no doubt on the whitemind they're dealing with a very fierce very dangerous fallwhen jeffersonwas terrified of what was happening in sandman you referred to two sides on these cannibals
and spent the part of his career really doing what every possibly could isolatesend a man and to shut down all american trade in there for all american contactwith with the islandjefferson was especially for a good bit that sand a manwould serve as a model for american blacks theidea that that a successful slave revolution could take place thatclose to american shores was something there the bridge until the virginia planto politicians found the very terrifying reason were terrifyingbut a lot of italianenglish finejefferson referred to tucson sarney is cannibals his fear wasthat black americans like gabriel would be inspired by what they saw taking placejust off the shore of america and he spent bridget his entire career
trying to shut down any content and therefore any movement of information between the americanmainland and a caribbean island he agreedto pay and innineteen ninety eight on while the us the separatistshas decided that i'm not so it still hasn't prevented the nineties thefortieth president with the thing about this songit's in session until after gabriel idiotreginagovernor james monroe was was quite positive that gabriel's army had been inspired inpart by refugees coming from santa man and as president johnson did everything he possiblycould to shut down any trade it called on congress toabolish trade between the united states and what they can afford the independent country ofhaiti he argued that france believe that still only island in short he
denied that the haitian revolutionaries have the same right toindependence and autonomy the claim for american patriots because when eighteen or fiveand find a mate you know sex triggers for lisa down between united states and haiti whichdecimated it already very weak haitian economy or storms and then argue this was anexample of what happens when when africans are allowed to govern themselves economic devastationcaused in large part by his own economic policiesoh that's oh it's quiteclear that the tucson was deeply inspired by events both infrance and united states and some of his tissues and ten set in fact been on the american mainland of the french armyduring the american revolution jefferson was always the first to deny a serverevolutionary heritage to people other than whites of european
descent as far as he was concerned was taking place in haiti was not part of alarger movement in the age of revolution but wholly illegitimate attemptsby human property to gain their freedom and slay their masterspresidentyeah for black americans thecondition hasbeenamerican democrats like to call the election of jefferson the revolution of eighteen hundred thatmoment in which the promised the revolution was it was reborn the common man's
seize control of the government for black americans election and johnson was devastating theadministration regards today is one of the more conservative administrations theyhave done business with tucson to die absence and ambassadors todisarmed dozen ministries was a pro slavery administration andfor black americans it was exactly the opposite of what this moment meantfor white americans it was a moment of great despairtheydecided that the dealborn inseventeen seventy six gabriel was raised mit says the head in liberatingtalk of natural rights and freedom bridge is an age ofrevolution that use those two words incessantly in and giggle was raised in a
time in which she was generally believed by all virginians white and black people wereendowed with certain natural right here was a child born in the year the dirksen announced thatall men have certain rights chief among which were life liberty and there was a boywho had none of those things feminist herois a fourth waywe heard someone in particular with this freedom meansnot typicalthat's rightis a skilled black to heart is on time run inrichmond area and was alive to keep the palin part of the earnings for a time in thelate seventy nineties gabriel apparently felt that that it was a relativelyfree man and it's interesting that a number of historians have described him as a free black because his
mobility appears to be so enormous but then boom came crashing down andseventy ninety nine when he bit off the ear of a white neighbor and phantom self bratton itbrandon thumb and incarcerated for about a month and that experience reminded themthat for all his apparent freedom and mobility that hewas still a slave that any moment could have his earnings taken away his wifesold away and could be whipped and branded in open courtithink that the branding incident for gabriel was a moment in time in which you realized hehad several ways to go that his freedom his is relative freedomof movement was obviously a sham and therefore he could do whatmany young single black males did which was run for the north had toward philadelphiabut here was a man who had a wife apparently did not live on the process plantation inc they may have
had children by his age the age of twenty four he probably did and thereforeit to flee would believe these people behind and therefore i think herealized that his only option was to stay and try some some much differentway of forcing virginia to live up to its stated ideals sitwith uslike all revolutionaries gabriel seem to have very little concernfor violence in danger he was an enormousman was six foot two sixth at three in a time of relatively shorterman he was a blacksmith so he was a man of enormous strength he was described ashaving scars on his face and smith missing most destructive aspect of thatbacking for mixing it up in the quarters with other slaves security of brookfieldappears to be really quite lax in and sort of he was big
he was aggressive but it was a very dynamic person obviously was a man of great charismawhat he recommended people tend to do in short he was like most revolutionaries he was aman who people instinctively tended to follow it and he probably fearedvery little i think itisitlike many revolutionaries gabriel i think was brave to the point of being foolhardyhe was a very big man six foot two or three very strong from at least tenyears as a blacksmith no better example i think exists then thatthe ear biting incident the year before and seventeen ninety nine he wascaught stealing a pig and instead of accepting that the abuse the verbal abuse
he was taking gabriel was caughtstealing a pig and seventeen ninety nine instead of accepting the abuse of course every slavewas supposed to accept it through the man to the ground i wrestled him to the groundand been of the better part of his left ear that of course was a capital crime pig stealing was acommon occurrence biting why people was something that that was not encouraged for blackvirginians do it indicates i think that there was a man who will really wasready at any moment to and then they're therebecause my brain i'm certainat all the pigs dealing were just of townno no it's still a distant as wilson says that is kindof what no place i'm at the pink ceilingincident reminds us that gabriel was a man who always was readyto take the barricades somebody who apparently was afraid of nothing including losing his life an
end or a relatively minor incidentgabriel seems to be a very aggressiveyoung man almost sort of a hot head he was a man whowas described as having scars on his face he was missing most of his front teeth i mean iassume that came from mixing it up in the quarters with the other slavesthat but clearly he was a man who would reached it is high as he couldgo as a slavery was a highly skilled blacksmith a man who hired as time around thearea toll right aggressive in adifferent world label one of the man to reckon with but in virginia he wasa slave and he was human property and that meant he had very few optionshe was not the kind of person who was he got older could accept a situation either could run
away or stay and fight and clearly decided to stay and fightok isthat ok isuspected it was is gabriel was sitting in jail and laid seventeen ninety nine that hedecided that the time had come to began to orchestrate some kind of master planthey giggle was part of that revolution the revolutionary generationthey believed like tom paine that the world could be changed the world could begin anewhe honestly seem to believe and i don't want to wear that sounds i'm sorryyeah there's either qualify have toomuch powergable was a part of that revolutionary generation who believe that that the
world could begin anew that that anything was possibleas a scientist and as the ussenatewhat he'sbeensaying gabler was a part of a revolutionarygeneration that they believed that the world could be created new he oncesaid was followers there that this was a plot not merely for black virginians but for his countrymeaning it that this was his chance to make the nicest live up to its statedideals of being a place of freedom and equality and a place for everybodyreally would be equal whatit gained over boeing could've been a moment in one of those moments in whichthe revolution was alive again even
had it failed it in a spectacular way and the band massive bloodshed i think it might'vebeen one of those moments in which the plan to politicians realize that holding people inbondage kim at too high a price they giggle could've died and hisplan could have lived had it gotten off the ground but again terrainservicesfor somereason gabriel's conspiracy could've been one of those moments inwhich the south but again it wasconspiracy could have been one of those moments in which the south really altered its coursethis was a time in which there are still enough in like mid year old planters who feltsqueamish about asking for civil liberty for themselves and tonight the otherswas a moment for cotton was king it was a time in which i think it to
gabriel's plan really was rational this was a moment in whichthe staff could collectively decided that slavery was inconsistent with americanideals at the cost of holding these people in chains it was simply too highthe uni think because gabriel's plan failed to get off the ground thewhite planter class didn't see the kind of carnage that they've gabriel whatwas sure would would serve drive them and the realization that this had become good and then my gaybill did not seem to envision massive civil war he thought that asmall number of deaths and hostages would be a bargaining point atthat moment the richmond margins the planters would sit down in andseriously talk about black liberty island and obviously hewas not in it than he realized that this would be black freedom borneof white fear not out of white magnanimity but i think he was
cryptic thinking this was a moment that if if virginia was going to live up to what itsaid it believed in this was the time it was going to happenthe only way toreally struck a chord andthe really impressive thing about gabriel's planting is how widespread itis and how many people know about it and say very little that this isn't asmall parochial plot only outside of richmond on one or two plantationsthis is a plot that involves richmond norfolk charlottesville at least adozen counties in the hundreds and hundreds of slaves know about thisnot all the states have committed the dissipation but all of them know about it and saynothing they're unskilled whites in richmond who know about this there are white refugees arrive rushlimbaugh's army who know about this this is an egalitarian
army that really wants to bring about the new day in virginia with significant is it is not thetwo slaves of the loose their courage at the last minute until a mast with asignificant is the hundreds of virginians black and white who know about this and staysilent you know when you're reading the years he hasserved first time needed to help our heroes this year andhad it in them but you say itrainedit's unwise i thinkto condemn the two or three slaves to reveal the plot to the masters is the raincame down that august thirtieth it was quite clear that gave us plant probably would fail atleast one the slaves who informed and had a wife and a child and end andfor him this was a moment of opportunity in st gabriel stories a
story of heroism but in time to say who the villains areeither slaves who informed felt like they were doing what they had to do to save themselves anend to free their wives and childreni don't really bad when rowe wasn't killed butif you have an armand i feel about it onwell i played i think it is collected that this was amoment in virginia history and madridbesides we stayed in different waysut us conducted this or debates right afterward is that
because i'm following the execution of gay berlin twenty sixof his followers the state assembly met behind closed doors and try to decide whatto do about this and and there were many who felt that this wasthe time to begin some some massive plan for emancipation combined withcolonization a resolution was submitted to bridging assembly calling on thenow president jefferson to purchase land someplace perfectly in africa to be usednot only as a place to put black felons such as the rest of gabriel's followers were stillin prison but also as a place where free blacks might besent on this was a moment for jefferson's that his entire careeradvocating not alone emancipation colonization yet he did nothing here he had asection of the virginia governor his friend james monroe we have the sanction and approval ofthe virginia assembly yet he did nothing rightlike having slept on whether this way i think that
by making emancipation canget it by making emancipation contingenton conversations jefferson i think was perhaps consciously doing his own plan afailure the very bundles of land in virginia meantthat white simply cannot be turned into a class of tenant farmerand consequently no rational plant a politician would ever for a moment consentto emancipation was they could keep their slaves as free in low wage andpolitically powerless worker it's and therefore by insisting that whites and blacks couldnot live peacefully together and that blacks are freed had the scent someplace else maybe africa maybeat jefferson was setting up a condition that that simply could not bemet presidentbut most slaves
major revolution like medieval presence simply lacked the surnamethan the white planter class that day had no particular interest and according them adrug and i am most slaves in the age of revolutionlike like medieval presence simply lacked the surname and most planterswere not interested in affording them the kind of dignity that would come with the surnameand so while many historians call gabriel gabriel prosser there's actually getting him aname he did not give himself and perhaps did not want the name of his masterreally has beenhey heyin an odd way the prohibition on for their african imports as of januaryone at no way it actually strengthened slavery a place where it had been
the weakest that was in virginia in washington's daymasters who felt uneasy about holding slaves or masters who's a plea couldafford to keep as many slaves often be willing to emancipate the slaves in their will the way thatwashington did or allow for self purchase but of course what theband did was to create an artificial scarcity on black labor and thereforeimmediately a trader rose between the border south and the lowersouth at twenty two the year of denmark these plot roughly thirty thousandvirginians so young men and women were sold or south carolina or points to the westyou're welcomewith alyssaironically that the ban on importation of further africans which began on january one
at no way to actually strengthen ahold of slavery in the bordersouth that is in virginia and maryland and delaware where it had been the weakestin washington state for example a planter who felt uneasy about owning otherpeople or was it they can afford to keep as many african americans would often be willing toemancipate the slaves in there we'll as washington did or allow for self purchasebut the band created an artificial scarcity of blacklaborers and gasoline neatly and injure american trade betweenthe upper south between virginia maryland and the lower south south carolina and georgiaa merged in any june twenty two the year denmark visas conspiracy thirtythousand young black people are young men and women were traded betweenvirginia and south carolinaoh ok
for it did for young black virginians if onewas between the age of roughly eighteen and thirty that about a one in three chance ofbeing sold or south carolina or to mississippi he knows some masters andjohnson falls into that category tried to say all the womenwith their children but for slave man they're not regard as being part of a familyplan to stall themselves that the blacks like the the kind of feeling forfamily the wyden said and consequently if you lived in the border south of thosevery likely chance that you would be torn apart from your spouse and then sold to the deepsouthandon the south carolina and georgia important thousands andthousands of africans try to get them in before the ban on eating away which they knew was coming
the effect of that was was to keep african cultural life especially in southcarolina and georgia oh yeahokmom in south carolina golla culture there's a great dealof evidence that that african culture african religionafrican family structure that would whiz was very much alive wellinto the nineteenth century thanks to this importation of africans in many more likesouth carolina areas these were regions that are about ninety five percent blackand therefore the chances of blacks assimilating into your allamerican culture i were pretty nonexistent dilly white face are heavily armed whiteoverseers or the occasional planterishmael was
bornrather than lateralthough it's been a meth that the cotton ginseventy ninety three revitalize slavery would which was not by any means on theropes the fact is that can explode across the new landsof what was then known as the old self mississippi alabama by the eve of the american civilwar i was a mississippian and not south carolina they're the heaviest percentagea black americans and of course these were blacks who had been living along coastalregions in south carolina and virginia in maryland who wereupgraded and drag west as you can literally exploded across theamerican frontier of time and i don't domuch with cutting my leglexicon valley
not that i want to give a few examples of assassins which wasin many ways cut was that the perfect cropfor slave labor to produce palm unlike cereal crops didn't grow very highin jordan workers who could always be observed by the overseerit was perfect for the gang style of labor organization i'd dois the perfect kind of crap to observe what the workers were doingthat at the time when i was akid now i'm a gravedigger gotten the new mexico because we're kids to protectagainst the funding to do that that it's notoursite unlike johnson whosaid he believed in colonization that but never practiced what he preached to onethousand american colonization society making sixteen actually envisioned a
country without slave labor or even free black labor the typicalconversationalist was a border state virginia kentucky marylandon a slave holder but a petty slave holder a person who can becharacterized as a capitalist in and simply did not see slavery as the future of thecountry somebody who bought the idea that the united states wasfundamentally a place for white americans blacks belonged elsewhere in andtherefore the plan was to force these people if necessary to moveabroadwe're okaykeepgoingthe american callousness since it was founded in washington dc in december making sixteen
by an unusual bunch of white slave holders andthese were men who owned other people but very small numbers of slaves i theyweren't planters there a man who had diversified their business interests they'recapitalists and simply didn't see slavery or even free black labor is fittinginto the future of the country which they identified as a profoundly white country wasthat youoh it's certainly true that the vast majority blackamericans especially in the northern states believed that the country of their birth was their countryand had no desire to immigrate to liberia i there were a good numbersouthern blacks free blacks moderately prosperous blacks ofbarbers art is answered tavern keepers are constantly had enough anddecided to go in they were weary of endless white demands for
deference they're targeting of the sidewalk when a white man walked toward themthey decided as the antebellum period dragged on that america neverwould give them an even break and therefore they decided to leavecreighton or nothe leaders of the american colonization society werehardly an important people they were betrothed washington the nephew georgewashington was also the supreme court i henry clay the speaker of the house francis scott key avery important georgetown attorney charles at mercer a longtime member of the house representativesand these were men who had great power and leave it was within the realm ofpossibility to force a large numbers of blacks to leave unitedstates and migrate to africa this is the same generation bear in mind that forced thousandsof georgia charities to move to oklahoma and so the idea of moving people around to make this a
more perfect white man's country i was not nearly as irrational as it often seems tous wasn'tthereright and this iswell okwhen the lottery makes a server distant staralthough i guess the question easily do somethingto usdenmark's obesity is awonderfully complex person or her relic but sometimesnot so he was a man who seemed to inspire both on enormous fear inhis followers a lot of those were put on trial for complicity in his conspiracy andget a denzel because they were they were very afraid of saying no to the c it was a big
man he was a domineering and he was a fairly wealthy free blackthat i'm his deputy thousand dollars in capital it was the manager who was notaccustomed to hearing the word no a man who at least three wives a large number ofchildren and typically got what he wanteddespite being a free man and ofcourse won fifteen hundred dollars and then in november of nineteen seventy cents billionor right ok and it wasn't somethingi am despite being a wealthy freeman but vesely kept his ties to the slave communityi always wise at least initially were slaves and he had a number of children
all of whom were born a slave none of his children were free andbecause in charleston often to be a free black was to be a new lawor somebody who had ties to the white community that was very powerful brown fellowship associationanother one had to have some white ancestry to be a part of and consequently despiteis twenty two years as a wealthy free blacks in charleston the easyalways associated with the slave community and and not the free communityfor seventeen yearsmattel mark as he was then known houston do well by that namemccurdy in english for seventeen years telemarketing as he was then known workfor captain joseph easy as a man who work on thedocks he was these he's assistant and it was his job to go down to the docks andcollect whatever goods are being imported good in a small number of slaves that kept india's imported
but now he played the lottery and in november of seventynine to ninety one fifteen hundred dollars which was an enormous amount of money in the late eighteenth centuryhe was six hundred dollars that money to buy his own freedom from marykleiner vc who was that the east indian common law wife captain joseph easybut his wife becky anderson sandy belong to somebody else andevidently they would not sell any pricethis isconspiracy the church were talking about in their owndespite being baptized a predominately white church be easymeat really gravitated toward african methodist episcopal church when it was founded in charlestoneighteen seventeen arm it's not i think that that he used thechurch as a way of gaining followers to some stories of alleged itwas rather when he realized how for what authorities would go to
control the african church as it was called in and he routinely shut it down arrestedministers solid a delegation from philadelphia came out they were arrested in andbrutalized by where droste audience and i think that made these yourealize that that the momentum coming to get outand somevisa told one of his friends that debt that he'd given up for the second time ever can george was shutdown he thought seriously by going to see early on but then he announced that he hadnot a will to go when he said he would stay in the city could do for his fellow creatures that was his phraseand i think that was a deciding moment for these that was when he decided toremain in orchestrate some kind of mass escapewhen the black draught the methodists decided to separate themselves from
white authority and start their own churchwhen blackcharleston methodist decided to separate themselves from what authorities start their own church theyautomatically look toward a rigid ounce philadelphia church is being theproper model morris brown droste and went to meet with thephiladelphia branch and was granted the right id to preach incharleston it effects it's excludedsix elders from the philadelphia branch came tocharleston to help them organize what they call the african church by eighteen twenty therewere three thousand members of the trust them and the church making it the secondlargest i'm certain public radiook and i'mlooking at the mayor said this does keep the right on
that when the charleston black methodist decidedto separate themselves from white control they automatically look toward richardallen church in philadelphia is being the proper model to follow and more spread ofcharleston went to philadelphia to meet with the philadelphia elders and attacks sixallison philadelphia came to charleston to help draw stone is organizer can be known as the africanchurch which was built and in the hands of regents a product but only black region incharleston and by eating why there are three thousand blackprisoners in the african church making it the second largest black church in united stateshesays it againthank youwhen a black trial stallings decided to separate
themselves from white religious authority and they naturally looked order to balance church inphiladelphia is being proper model ten and apply to be part of alarger am the umbrella in fact six allison philadelphia came down in charleston andeighteen at delta organize who came to be known as the african church byeighteen twenty three thousand watt congregants an african church making it the second largestblack church in that state second only to that the battle congregation in philadelphiaand these internally was oneof the founding members of the african church it was also was known as aclass leader morris brown gave it the sunday sermons but every night therewere meetings at the church has a very large congregation and said the churches wereresponsible for it teaching reading and and most of allthey're teaching about the bible which meant it easier to control over a small number ofpeople which allowed him to teach certain things in the bible that he wanted to emphasize
the us as a leading manmany the depositionstaken in ibiza conspiracy indicate that that yet a great deal to say about religionwhat's interesting is that that literally every quotation he citesis from the old testament and interviews he turned his back on thenew testament in charleston christianity was so identified with proslavery thought a white ministers love to talk about how st paul approved of slavery how jesus offailed condemned slavery and i think it would've easy fan in the old testamentthat was not a god of love who would have him turn his cheek would be used butrather a god of wrath the god of justice which he found thatmuch more appealingbut i can't
it's been abusy yearevery second wheredoes just what is his old i think it would beeasy found in the hebrew bible when the old testament was agod he can identify with not a god who called upon him to love his brothernot a god who believed in and the universal brotherhood of all men but a god who argued therewere chosen people and that god would protect those people are if theyfollowed him and obey his commandments it one of these followers saidthis was part of denmark's gospel of liberty and hatewaking wayone of these he's
been friends once said that that that denmark so i hate white peopleand write again one of these has followers one said thedenmark so hated white people that didn't even care to talk to a white man and evenin business i think that his own experiences being born a slave inst thomas living briefly before the revolution and send a man as a slavebeing forced by cabin visa to go down to the docks and even bring the shoreslaves were being imported into south carolina in and get them to the slavepens in charleston remind him that this was not a world abrotherhood this was a world in which there were different kinds ofpeople and clearly he identified with the israelites i he saw himself as the chosenpeople and routinely referred to white carolinians as the newegyptians where is the wayit has been
a white ministers in south carolina talked a greatdeal about the fact that the new testament sanction slaverythey talked about the fact that st paul once counsel the runaway slave to return to hismaster they talked about the fact the and as many teachings as far as anybody knew jesus had failedto criticize slavery to course existed in his world in and does poorly in the whitechurches of what one heard was it consciously pro slavery kind ofchristianity i think that's why these he turned against it you simply identified the newtestament with his master's and in the old testament with a very differentkind of lesson and thatcase to haiti christianleadership over this time anyone forthis went on although south carolinians white southcarolinians never demonstrated the kind of guilt
that virginians like jefferson demonstrated over slavery certainly it was overtimes the cut economy began to boom as white carolinians felt themselves tobe under attack by northerners which they found the missouri compromise thatthey're pro slavery rhetoric i began to heat up and it began to more consciouslydefend their system and not themselves but to outsiders and their own capof black populationwill accept that iknow i mean it you know the age of revolution people and genders and can talk about slaveryas being necessary evil yet the average you're stuck with that you never hear that even under the revolutionoccurred in south carolina so yeah i think it is pre spill and the answer is august because of theirblack majority they're scared but it's also when you're chronically and deliberately
so i'm not an address a deflated buton that i think there are there is a real difference betweenyou knowforty to maybealso it's different from gabriel's visit idon't want these his plan was very different from that of gabriel's was more than justtwenty two years that separate these two men in game rules debuted in gigglesplace in richmond virginia was plausible think that the south might changein and might become more egalitarian and turning in slavery by these he's day with thecurrent economy booming it was quite clear to him that the south would not changeand therefore the possibility of some kind of revolution that could force white to accept blacksas equals what was simply impossible and so where gabriel said over and over
the plant to live in virginia and live amidst the white aftera successful revolt these israeli plan to get out of his plan was to take thecity get his family get his friends in and get to haiti as an independentblack republic and elaborate on that in aneighteen twenty nation president jump your boy they had issued a gentlecall for black americans to migrate to haiti haiti was short oncapital it was short on skill labor course denmark busy as a boyi had been unsettled man and as captainsassistant knew how to get there and therefore he believed correctly thathe would welcome the he in his army with open armsthere's a case of most conspiracies the wrong kind of
person was informed about the plan these young has counseledthat man who wore a cast off cuts from a masters or were toclose the siren most ofthe timeas was the case in too many plans that the wrong kind ofslave caught wind of the plot these yields countless followers not tobring anybody plants we said that were cast off colds from the masters or took giftsfor the masters season they were not to be trusted and has exactly that kind of houseslave are who heard the news the plot and promptly inform hismaster and so the word on to the mayorthat
views you believe it that the people who were in a position that theseason on these he believed that morris brown orthat people like him who had to accommodate themselves to what authorities are not to be trustedyou made very clear that the mortar round should not be brought into conspiracy browncurly knew something was happening then and basements churchbut these he explicitly warned that morris brown was not to be toldhe's beengiven morris brown had many concerns that was notthese concerns wes brown was to keep his church open had been closed down several timesby what authorities he was concerned with the spiritual life other black parishionershe was concerned with keeping the church open it is a central meeting place for theblack community and it was one of these he found moore's bronze
theology to be suspect morris brown well sadly not preaching a proslavery brand of christianity i nonetheless thought about universal brotherhood andother concepts of these he clearly did not believe in and therefore regardeda bronze preaching is being fundamentally accommodationhost so whathappenedright rightafter the word broke about the plotthese remained at large for about a week apparently by hiding in the house and his first wifeback in and not staying at his house on wall street eventually that house was searchedand he was captured he argued in court for his innocence by the evidenceagainst him was overwhelming as he was being sentenced atear rolled down his cheek until the court that he might die there's a business would live
on mom posted of that would you know the church andthe executionsso i'm doingstuff about what he says the court but it was at the unafter the word broke about the plot these an instrumental large for about aweek apparently he was hiding in the house of his first wife beckwith by the way was simplyrun the corner from the mayor's house i stayed away from the house he was reading on wall streetbecause of the the first place the white authorities would walk but fine he too was takenput on trial it argued eloquently for his innocence but the only evidence against himwas overwhelming when he was found guilty and sends to die on julysecond tier randomness face it all the court that he might diebut that light liberty would live on
says nina now has is that his death doesn't involve shooting saysthat sen webster the story is anart that sits on a palm is kevin white carolinians would would do that thatvirginians get downon friday july twenty six and twenty twoof these his followers were hanged off an old wall known as the lines duringsome at that they couldn't do on the small gals it's off the ropes over the wallin and built a small platform plan for a missile oh the ground thatwhen the platform was kicked out the slaves felt the next one broken and as theassertion of actionthis and one friday that latent aliveeating twenty two states executed in one moment twenty two of thesefollowers to use an irregular gallows they basically tusk ropes over an old wall
known as the lines that was built in the northern part of charleston to build a very crudeplatform for the slave to stand on the platform a solo to the ground that win theslaves valid then break their neck so there are slowly strangling and so the cap of the guard walkdown the line slowly sunita them in the head and reloading as he went on to the next lifebecause the trial testimony indicated morris brown had not been a conspirator brown was allowed tolive but was forced to leave the stadium's of course to move to philadelphia butbecause the african church was creepy regarded as a meeting place it really is the centralplace that that vacantbecause morris brown was clearly not reallyconspirators he was allowed to live but was forced to leave the state and moved to philadelphia
but because the african church was creepy regarded as the central meeting placefor the easy soldiers the church was literally brick by brick torn down i'meighteen twenty two and i would be no black congregation in charlestonuntil college and sixty five after the civil war ii at the moment the amychurch was rebuilt and the architect was robert be easy the youngest sonof denmark easywhy wereworld is that way was under the have moresprouts of two or to start with themagain and it wasn't just that theafrican church had been the meeting place the black conspiratorsit was that i think it symbolized of white authority of black autonomy was a place
where where blacks were freed told her own destiny and therefore it was takendown brick by brick of the conspiracy and in the church was was forced soshe moved to philadelphia when rebuilt until fall at sixty fivewhen it was restored and the architect to rebuild the church was robert easythe youngest son of denmark be easynicethings and there's a very clear connectionbetween black religious autonomy that is between blacks supportingthemselves from white religious control and black resistance in these days theconnection is clear having secede and wants to white authorityit was easy to see that the second time that is to plan toleave america behind and skip to haitino no it leaving that that the white
methodist church and becoming once again by gesturefor traveling the more clear is very clearconnection between black religious independence movements that has a desire to befree of white religious authority an end and black resistancehaving seceded ones from white control when the african church led a white methodistorganization behind these in some ways want to secede a secondtime and leave when american wind and escape at the african church gaveblack frost audience better chance to control their own destiny to guide yourfears that allowed for a black leadership group to emerge and all those things at whatauthorities some simply cannot allow to exist inwhite shirts and black actorsif they're hackingok
oh charleston churches were notsegregated the way that white northern churches were segregated blacks do not necessarily sit inthe back pews it was very clear that whites called the shots it was not merely whitetheology that is being taught which is to say pro slavery theology but itwas also the assumption that that blacks would do what wives told him to doan end and the final blow was when simply as sort of an act of powerother words decided to build a hearse house over at a blackgraveyard and that was when the black congregation decided to leave the white matter the streetbehind it's where you can be part ofchristmas it is a carriage houseis that it sits where you know they have data on things away destroyinglike i'm issues boston unlike motown the cemetery and put and you'rejust on top of that so that again if you like it
hesays the african affairs andhow investigation magical things then you know andour ideathe thousands of africans who came incharleston before hitting await found a natural home in the amy churchand i think especially again the classes that these utah because there was avery nice fit between the african world i loveplace god's love spiritual places and the old testamentstories of magic which of course means powerthis for an ss
art onevery yearalthough most southern blacks like the story of the exodus and aflight from slavery these he found in the book of exodus there are things that your guardis very empowering look back to those talks a great deal about rights forslaves and demands that the people of the book that is the hebrewscould only be held as slaves by other hebrews four six years and in some here would go outfree the easy it there for that by being people of the book thecharleston blacks were being held to legitimately and to express that against the will of godafter six yearsdoes the paddling on the most storied college or email seems to becalm them to say yeahthere aren't there were other
livin on sold again and similar thing againobama like all slaves these he was drawn to thestory of moses and the flight for freedom he wants it feel like a stranger in a strangeland living in charleston a slave he was drawn much more profoundlyto mosaic law in the book of exodus regarding slaves according the book ofexodus of the chosen people can be kept as human chattel for only six years and seventyor must be free nbc the top there for the african churchthat it was against the will of god to keep slaves formore than seventy years ago if they were people of the booki knowok a big statement to that
that but also have also been there andthat image of it let me read youthe easy read the newspapers and fall dessert a bit of eighteen twenty verycarefully he told some of his followers that congress had emancipatedslaves and this news was being kept from them by the white pastorsare serving as a bright literate man these each had no this not to be trueit up and rufus king of new york is one of his heroes because here finally was awhite man in power talk about how slavery was fundamentally and morally wrongbut was king doesn't appear anywhere in the scripton one reference to him and i said he doesn't think that that thenorthern white folk it would come down to his aid tom whittenwith goebbels of the cactus and with theirconstituents
by eighteen twentyjefferson as he got older became more and more a pro slavery advocateswhereas as a young man he had advocated keeping slavery of the westernterritories and eighteen twenty he now perversely argued that the best way toeradicate the rules to allow it to spread across the country he arguedthat the missouri debates were a fire bell in the night and i had that it was a attack upon southernrights by northern whites the idea certainly the thing because somehowdied by spreading the american midwest what was frankly in a rational ideaand many of his older friend such as lafayette regarded it as evidence that this onegreat mind what was was now slipping intoreally stupid theory munitions plain old justin byallowing it to like live in california andthe
leadyet jarvis is that when johnson died onthe fiftieth anniversary of his most celebrated ottoman for white america it was amoment that the part of the meaning of the revolution to make a new commitmentto revolutionary ideals for the roughly two hundred slaves lived on this hilltopmacho it was a moment of enormous tragedy that doesn't alwayslived well beyond is maine's lead died in great debt which that it was quiteclear that his heirs were going to liquidate his death by selling of slavesjohnson freed only five slaves in his will all of them werethe ancestors of john wales his own father in lawthat was a grand sale and marcelo families were broken upour slaves were dispersed all across the south because jefferson could notforcing self to live within his means
the big we needtodo guy and he can do in terms of religions ordecide what what slavery offered the white southwas the facade of a classlesssociety as long as the working class was a doubt a fight with black americanswere africans what could tell them self and that that and this will become aman anybody could rise to the top no matter how poor white man was disbarred benothing less than middle class because there was always somebody below him arecharacterized as working class by the color of their skinwith it it was a rally wherelawyers
for many reasons because of the missouri debates which forced the self too to explainarticulate reasons why slavery was a good thing in part because of the growth of the cottoneconomy the white south especially lower self south carolina georgiabegan to articulate a fairly new idea which was that slavery was nota bad thing in any way but it was a positive good for all concernedthat allowed for a white american civilization to advance and by takingwhites out of menial labor and allowed for africans to becivilized by bringing into contact with allegedly spirit white culture anend and the christian faith and that was a new idea men of jefferson'sgeneration never tried to pretend that slavery was a good thing for white or black andcertainly jefferson i never had any interest in arguments that there was somethingsymbolizing about slavery came to africans so theyhave a problem
buddy team thirties by that of the heyday of andrew jacksonwith which we tend to think it was so the age of the common man and there was a rougherdeleterious streak in american society but that got tear in streakwas based upon race i'd the idea was that thiswas an open world provided you were a white male you could you could like andrew jackson thepoor boy and rise to the top of society but if you look very closely mostof all southerners like jackson who rose to the top did it on the backs of african men andwomen who work their lands and made them richare you ofthattesshe's riding
slavery as the system always required not merely white military powerbut also collaborators and every slave understood that their ways butultimately what they plantation regime alwaysrequire not merely white military power but also collaboratorsand everyone understood that the most obvious way to control the labor forcewas to buy off people like gabriel and to winover people with certain kinds of rewards and then as the slaves returngabriel and ponder their options are fully aware that what assad is parentreward them with your information by giving them not nick maley their their liberty butalso probably a bag of moneythe
stateand even in virginia astate that had of white majority it was necessary to divide theblack community against itself by offering a system of rewards orpenalties for those who went along the system or those who turned in their fellowsthat enormously like gabriel would be the kind of slave that a plant would wish to callwalk ins and somehow by off that was impossible you have to find peoplewho would turn against a charismatic black leaders who understandfully that there was freedom and a new set of clothing waiting for them ifthey turned on their fellowsit ispennsylvania was the firststate to move against slavery passing a law for gradual emancipation seventeen at
ten and there was next the delaware next maryland nextvirginia and consequently foreign blacks living in the in the upper south in thosestates the philadelphia became a server promised land a meccaa city that symbolized freedom the city big enough they could get there they could hide inthe back alleys they could probably find some kind of occupationbefore black fly gabriel philadelphia was the place to get to think offind some way to get out of virginiatodaythat same diplomasomeone can come upit wind that greg the new yorktimes
pennsylvania was the first state to move against slavery passing a law andseventy eight which called for the gradual emancipation of slaves at that time itwas literally surrounded by slave states delaware new yorkmaryland virginia all still practiced human bondage and that manthat the city of philadelphia than the largest city in british america became asafe haven for black americans the city of back alleys a city with a thriving blackcommunity if slaves like gabriel or some of his followers who had philadelphia address in theirpockets could make it to that city they were probably safe they can be returned to slaveryi'm not i'm not even as things are getting worse for blacks in philadelphia and stillrepresents the focus on me
This record is featured in “Africans in America Interviews.”
Africans in America
Episode Number
Brotherly Love
Raw Footage
Interview with Douglas Egerton, Professor of History, Le Moyne College
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WGBH (Boston, Massachusetts)
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Douglas Egerton is interviewed about the contradictions of equlity and freedom, Thomas Jefferson as a slave owner and believing Africans were inferior, the revolution in Haiti, Toussaint L'Ouverture, Gabriel's Rebellion, Gabriel's Conspiracy, the ban on importation of African slaves, the expansion of cotton plantations, the black support for the American Colonization Society, Denmark Vesey, Charleston African Church, Morris Brown, the hanging of Vesey's followers, Thomas Jefferson's death, the southern view of slavery as a "positive good."
Race and Ethnicity
American history, African Americans, civil rights, slavery, abolition, Civil War
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Chicago: “Africans in America; 103; Brotherly Love; Interview with Douglas Egerton, Professor of History, Le Moyne College,” 1998-00-00, WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed May 20, 2019,
MLA: “Africans in America; 103; Brotherly Love; Interview with Douglas Egerton, Professor of History, Le Moyne College.” 1998-00-00. WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. May 20, 2019. <>.
APA: Africans in America; 103; Brotherly Love; Interview with Douglas Egerton, Professor of History, Le Moyne College. Boston, MA: WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (WGBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from