American Experience; The Murder of Emmett Till; Interview with Robin Kelley

fb they're overseen six to fill it was forest look at home world rents people get out well tell me about how the emmett till case changed a generation of people in wealthy figure on emmett till was killed in nineteen fifty five that was a generation of young people people twelve thirteen fourteen who became the oud and the kind of anger it's of rising they are the ones who are that the city movement in greensboro nineteen sixty people like cleveland sell solace for example was very moved by the murder of emmett till because he saw himself in the coffin he saw himself as possibly a victim of that kind of violence and it moved him to become an active member of civil rights movement without naming them a lot of people might

have time to go and so forth but there is great because we hadn't had until changes a generation has kitschy change generation or for generation coming up at mid fifties on the five years before the civil rights movement about the death of emmett till was a wakeup call for them and many of those young people and then being at the vanguard of civil rights movement many of them actually went to college five six years later and became leaders in the sudden movements mean what is your legacy against isis well what was so what a first legacy just to be early he says that's why was it for african americans into white's as well to see images of fourteen oh

boy you know all over the world plastic front page of newspapers and jet magazine i'd never picked orioles i it was a wakeup call for them to realize that america has to change that the south it was a very violent place in that violence had a lot to do with black people struggling for basic citizen survives you know i'm gay if it wasn't for the images of people i can tell and many others who died in that period of nasa violence on i think that many of the folks who volunteered to comes out that despite voter registrations to dissipate in on in desegregation movements dissipate in a surprise activities that they would've been as has inspired and not till and yet emmett till was an activist no he deleted movement instead he was more a symbol of the legacy that the pass and a symbol of the possibilities of the future if we can eliminate the kind of racial violence

well isn't that anything about him until was that we talked about rosa parks and the montgomery boycott it and it and other kind of pivotal things right with workable one thing it seems to me about and that element of this was that there was it was this emotional catalyst that was great was it was emotional you know in a way that that that that some of the other things that happen you really afterwards or took you know about the total motion in the murder of emmett till had a huge emotional impact on people of all ages but especially young people and the fact that at mamie till bradley's chose to have an open casket um so that people could see the the physical scars to see the disfigurement of this year and boy whose only crime merely was and to be a prankster in a place where they're

very wary lines of impatiens so sharp that on you know just whistled report and i think about how say that somehow most businesses the inmates who is this constant motion the most of fairness of the sunrise on it the murder of emmett till had a huge emotional impact on the generation of the nineteen fifties precisely because the fiscal disfigurement experience affected this was a young boy fourteen years old i am i think for a lot of people who might've thought of the south as very faraway place or even seventies and sells to modify the civil rights movement as something that they are not a part of on that this horrible murder i mentioned i was

you know a wakeup call and he convinced them that he can be themselves they saw themselves in his body on and i think that the two years was maybe the lack of tears in some ways the anger people who mourned until i'm in chicago was enough to convince people that you know things have changed i think that sometimes you don't pay as much attention to the emotional impact of this movement decisive because we think of policy we think of you know i'm social movements who don't think of what it meant to be a black boy in the age of this is the conditions violence what it meant to have a life cut short its as young age for a very small infraction great spin

the official name is decision to the mamie till bradley's decision to have an open casket funeral was incredibly courageous and in fact on it was the thing that was me even within his murder or catalysts for many people to emotion calloused many people who are drawn to to this incident on budget because she made a decision to allow the world to see with these words from assistant on any became an internationally that you know and that image of his face is was marked town just about every single black person you know of that generation let alone people in europe and africa in a certain substances they know for me personally when i first saw those images years later it was shocking to me it was one of those

unforgettable images that i think that every generation you know years afterwards never forget one of the things it seems that that that marked this case and then is reflected in the civil rights movement is the idea you know and those categories but i just you know come and people doing kind of uncommon think you know mainly they'll say leave the casket all the memos were i just at one point in these people out in a record you're really really enjoyed it the greatest test devices it you know when we think of the emmett till case we often think about the big name people are trying to become famous michigan are operating by the end you're basically but you know i think of your heroes of that event where people like me and killed bradley who did make a

decision to have an open casket to make a decision to speak out to the public and to the press about what happened mose wright who and the threat of violence was able to stand up and testify against a white man lynched in the tale of these four deep down in your heels of the civil rights movement and some ways really did transform on the movement from that point what do you mean well before emmett till are in much of the civil rights movement was still locked in the courts and then we had grassroots organization struggling on the montgomery bus boycott was getting underway on but with the lynching of emmett till there was a recognition that one of the most important sites of battle was the right to live in a fundamentally the right to

stop the violence directed at black people this is violence that was escalating because of increasing voter registration drives in mississippi on seventy people died in mississippi that year long lived and disaffected are trying to register to vote and so once on mississippi instead up and said when i can take this rest and open to defend our own black people were gonna take a stand up i appear in the courthouse you know speak to the press i think that it gave courage to future generations to come forth and say you know the violence will stop this movement in fact the virus was par with the students fighting against you know and in that respect i think it really transformed conditions of rights movement the bottom and

boycotts started fishing although hundred days after after after that took his home is no you know there's a relationship between the two i think his relationship between the montgomery bus bus boycott and emmett till in that and i think his relationship between the montgomery bus boycott the murder of emmett till and brown vs board of education that these three events in bold and black people to stand up in the face of segregation and the chill in some ways it's better and some ways that gave when you're black people noticed that montgomery i'm not discourage but i think you know i'm still there was a sense of anger you know and that anger

at white supremacy unites white supremacy but the the decision of the court to exonerate these men for murdering an ally lynching this young kid i needed that level of anger i think you know that a lot of people to be able to commit themselves to the movie so and montgomery felt need for operations just like little rock arkansas in two years later and i think that that anger was somehow transformed into social movement and ironically into love and what i mean by that is into love for the people who they're trying to defend our own and love for a nation that pets for so long oppressed them but they felt was chancellor merkel you know they felt that as black people involved this movement on that until body was

sacrificed some ways that i'm george li's bodies were sacrificed that many the activists who were murdered were sacrificed for the sake of saving the country no redeeming station and i think that's why aren't you think of something that the nonviolent philosophies of rights movement as directly related to the violence meted out on people i like in it and the engines what was the effect question one of the things that though that was i think that direct effect in real real effect after the verdict comes in not guilty and after moment after

that they're there they're free from the kidnapping charges there mamie till starts to go around speaking and m n and she's speaking in italy in connection with the himalayas hippie you know they're raising lots of money in and getting members talk about the you know the effect you know after that the trial oh mainly speaking out for the end of lake city right before it as a question did you talk about catherine the disaster that the person you have people going around speaking for enron to keep it unless well as an well after emmett till summer mamie till bradley's decision to become very activity and out and basically got to speak out obviously built up its membership at a crucial moment may nineteen fifty five the naacp was at war with white campuses in fact its membership decline drastically because it had been outlawed in many states but that

kind of national recognition on mamie till bradley's willingness to put herself out there i'm i think played a key role in building support for the association and four you know i can instill a sense of courage and those people who would normally just dues paying member in dues paying members to active members inactive members to be involved in frontline organizations as a result of putting her stance one thing that they choose those went into the name he says is that in a lazy he was really come on the rocks in some ways does it spend so much money and so whatever the rover's forget and that you know that that are speaking out and speaking of that and they collect a lot of money so yeah i know this show emily that name until bradley is responsible for raising a lot of money getting the naacp out of that indeed that on they did invest huge sums of money in brown vs board of

education as a part of writing the other part of the story is that they were paying bail they were on their membership has been destroyed and through violence people who were registered to vote were told that if you if you don't like in him softballs well you know yet the town order your tribute to your wife or children these these kinds of threats released on that to the shrinking up any city's base without their base introduced a membership so was a very difficult time for the end of basically and and that's why ironically the emmett till case was a shot in the arm in a very tragic way yes very good when will the right so i had to summarize we haven't thought about the mental speaking out and and

finally seek unanimity oh mamie till bradley's decisions speak out for the end of basically and raise a lot of money for the association at a crucial moment when they had spent a lot of money on court cases and had lost its membership base they have a hit with them is i got to know that you're ok come and see and then civil servants the melody has was great disco and one of the things that you can go go go cause lions and there is you know what that means for civil rights coming up why is it important you know for the world as we know it for fourteen italy c p to now have some more money and some more people and what does that do

they wore mamie till bradley's speaking engagements raise a lot of money for the end of a city and that money was crucial for the continuance of its court cases it was crucial for me for surviving in an age when it's membership of being eroded as result of violence and had not been for that kind of financial support the naacp might not have survived you know into the early sixties at a crucial moment when the civil rights movement was just taking off or three inches long and short three percent it's b well think of those was instinctively end in which we hear from the beginning was why mississippi trial of these trying these guys in the first place you know one of the things that i was really an article back from

one of his opening from black newspaper and his evasive action was that was you wanted to prove you know on in the latin for hours more of a they can handle an unfair amount they wanted to show the world that you know what over the texas sun and then they did they wonder you know so why was it the trial didn't say too much because that is going to think i'm alone when emmett till was lynched in nineteen fifty five there hadn't been a lynching in about two years a mississippi and other southern states of the deep south were a child to become legitimate you know the goal of presentable states and soon after rounds the border situation and you see the development of a white citizens' councils white citizens' councils who were supposed to be like a rotary clubs

and white supremacy you know you have to be legitimate on they said they don't use violence on the ious intimidation these legal methods and we know the statue but this was different that's why it comes in mississippi or mississippi to legitimize itself it had to have a trial it had two empty storefront of justice otherwise it could easily dismissed by the federal government and all its claims for the right to be our time is that states' rights to take care of his own affairs would've unknown void the other thing is that in the age of the cold war the state of mississippi and alabama we're looked upon by the world you know the united states had a foreign policy of proving that democracy exist

until proven that he doesn't have to raise purple corner pocket and he became more and more difficult for the state department do its work outside in their states went back home have all this racism and violence and so there was pressure on the city and state department pressure on the city from the federal government pressure on mississippi congressmen senators and the government too to look legitimate search it to strike this balance between legality of the jews in one hand and the same old white supremacy in bossa nova and so the trial was somewhat of a show though i do and when you were dr cosby and that is not guilty just as we were the legacy of a limit to what worked well what was the legacy back to what is the legacy of the state and also

i think their bellies to distant legacies of emmett till one that level of violence that was commonplace not a secular society became known to the world and that violence generated anger and outrage and in some ways courage for those fighting in mississippi who knows what comes out the fight that i think is a legacy of emmett till is that jim crow racism as abuse exists from the age of slavery and could no longer exist as something that something has to change and among black people in the city itself were the ones who can make that change and the great thing is that the change that they made the exchange of citizenship

to all people to change that affected all of america not just black people but whites latinos asian americans it extended democracy to to the country when the moxie never been extended at one or two what effect of this whole case for you about letterman was the army's also an instinctive it affect for white americans i think that for some white americans who were not aware of the the kind of viciousness that was part a culture in the deep south and seeing those images and a front page of newspapers and jet magazine wherever they saw it on it's it was striking for them i think that it can even some white americans actually do to convince others to give money is to convince others that you know america is not what they thought it would be it's not an accident

that ten years later you have this emergence of the counterculture when lot of whites not as young people for white across ages began to be concerned about race relations in america and i think that for a white mississippians the emmett till did a couple things for those who thought that that virus can continue as it always has been among the allies said all eyes of the federal government and all eyes of the world were on them and so they have to be more careful you begin to get pressure from some white supremacists against using violence in the late fifties and insects and you see this in alabama susan jordan an attentive again become legitimate and the deed impossible thing is that she cannot maintain white supremacy and jim crow without violence was impossible you know and that's why ultimately the whole system had collapsed

lennox hill and after the trial after they're there for you and kidnapping charges she goes to the federal formula and chose to what is over the congo and on the federal government did not become wagner took place like they didn't become involved in many many cases of violence tens of writer one because the federal government really had close ties to southern democrats the political purposes of reasons for when that intervening on to many of them believe that the constant wind was and it's i thought that too many people many federal agents and jacob and others believe the civil rights movement was coming and have been pushing a long time and so for them and they cheated the movement the social justice as an enemy as opposed

to being a friend on any of course it's had a huge impact on the movement itself because many activist bleep they cannot rely on the federal government for support for today but what what's the what chemicals image is in votes today in so many cases of police violence and i think about how michael stewart or so a comedy dr low that the big cases i worked my way oh my no activists oftentimes will speak at the total was like its finances in a case where the murder took place and the state turned the other sort of look the other way and did not intervene and did not protect the rights of individuals and so many victims of today's police violence are young people young people like him to young people whose crime was often times

being in a long long time now on these cases of modern day lynching like howard beach you know these cases of of urban violence these content providers cases last twenty years all harking back to the legacy of emmett till the defensive medicine a difference but one difference is that emmett till inspired generations of people to fight for social justice to say with an opponent of this this level of us never took this again the question is whether or not future generations in fighting against police violence and fighting against racial violence will also be inspired to putting into it once and fall and that's fundamental question this whole question i think and that the two cases the spot for something that will do it focuses are on the emmett till case was a spark for

a new generation to commit their lives the sausage and you know they said we're not gonna die like this instead with their lives and transformed the south so people have to die like this on ann if anything any event the night of a nineteen fifties inspired young people to be committed to that kind of change he wasn't going to open that we often think of emmett till as a case of a young man being murdered but we don't always pay attention to what it meant for a young woman a young mother to stand up and to commit her life to activists and social change the courage that she exhibited i think was a role model for many of the women were trying to survive you know we often talk about their name or we talk about ella baker we don't always talk but name until

that as one of those heroines who stood up at a time when not many women whooping cough or in the struggle that script his business rudin to pass by