Sunday Forum; Life Beyond Earth And The Human Mind

Good evening and welcome to this week's Sunday forum. Tonight we're presenting recorded excerpts from a symposium held on November 18th at Boston University. The symposium was called Life Beyond Earth and the human mind and featured a very serious look at the possibility of intelligent life on other planets. The panelists include a Nobel prize winning biologist an astronomer a physicist a communications expert and a theologian. In a meeting sponsored jointly by Boston University and NSA the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. And this is Dick Whitman of Boston University the National Aeronautics and Space Administration is about ready to ask for up to 15 billion dollars in efforts to communicate with it been civilizations in outer space. Nessa researchers at the Ames Research Center in California have recently completed a $100000 study on a proposal to establish contact with extraterrestrial beings. Many of the Ames scientists are convinced that there may be. As many as 1 million planets

supporting life within 100 or 1000 light years from the earth used to listen to the radio signals of possible civilization and then perhaps to establish radio contact with them. I want to do is to build a giant radio receiving system some three miles across which would be aimed toward distant stars engineer Bernard Oliver reports that they have devised a method of listening to more than two billion frequencies at the same time. This was a very small scale Listening Project which was discontinued only after three months of operation last year. This time NASA scientists billions of dollars from Congress to conduct the experiment on a major scale. Congress isn't interested. They might work out a joint project with the Soviet Union. I'm trying to contact distant civilizations today at a symposium on an inspiring topic the possibility that life may exist elsewhere in the universe. Ashley Montagu is a well-known anthropologist and social

biologist has written over 40 books in the social sciences including man. His first two million years as an astronomer at Cornell. He's founder of exobiology. That's the study of extraterrestrial life helped design that on Pioneer 10 which right now is whizzing past the planet Mars on its way out of the solar system shows any sign of what something where we are is also here. He's a physicist and a philosopher from MIT. He's been called a modern Leonardo. He's written about the effects of science on society Christer Stendhal is dean of the Harvard Divinity School. He's a New Testament scholar. George Wallace a Nobel prize winning biologist from MIT. Also here Richard Barron's an astronomer and specialist in the history of science at Boston University. The ultimate discovery of extraterrestrial life forms

the most profound achievement history jointly by the doctor who is here today. There are some of the approaches to the possibility of life elsewhere in the universe. The religious one probably tackled the task in this area. There's a culture shock and of course controversy. Very much.

See around you colors of this meeting which any responsible organization for a variety of special education things of that sort. Our topic this afternoon the search for light in the room that might have. Meetings in the past of a scientific nature on this topic to the best of my knowledge this is the first time ever quite like this one where there's been a very distinguished panel which is we have divers discussing it and it's rather interesting topic. And interest in this topic. Two years ago I

began teaching a course in title search which I think is one of the first such courses taught at major American university. The subject matter I believe is ideal for an educational format for a number of reasons one of which is that it is basically an inextricably interdisciplinary character. Our panel today reflects that drawing upon scholars from a variety of fields. A generation ago almost all scientists would have argued ex cathedra that there probably was no other life in the universe but we know what is Martin cosmology. Quite simply put it. Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence in the last decade or so. The amount of evidence has become quite large and so large in fact were a number of scientists believe that extraterrestrial life surely must exist and perhaps an enormous abundance. So the

question has not become so much one as it has where and with regard to the search. It has also become somewhat normal human contact seems to be virtually inevitable. As an example of the modern scientific attitude I like to quote from a recent report of the astronomy survey Committee of the prestigious. National Academy of Sciences of the United States probably the nation's most distinguished scientific body. This was in May of this year. Each passing year has seen our estimate of the probability of life in space along with our capabilities of detecting scientists feel that contact with other civilizations is no longer something beyond our dreams but is a natural event in the history of mankind that will perhaps occur in the lifetime of many of us the promise is now too great to turn away from it or to wait much longer before

devoting major resources to a search for other intelligent in the long run this may be one of Sciences most important and most profound contributions to mankind and to our civilization. I believe it is there for this discussion. That's what we will try to bring to you today. Let me introduce the far side of Dr. Ashley Montagu a world renowned anthropologist social biology for many years he was the chairman of the Department of Anthropology at Rutgers the author of scores of books research papers on a variety of topics in the social sciences but the social and cultural development of man. Thanks to Dr who is an outstanding church man who is now the dean of the prestigious school at Harvard University theological circles one of the nation's most scholarly theologians.

Next to me Dr. Carl Sagan Cornell University and probably one of the five or six leading researchers in extraterrestrial life. The co-author of a very famous book Intelligent Life in the universe. All right Philip Morrison who's professor of physics at MIT and 13 years ago he was a co-author. What is perhaps the first. Scientifically valid reasonable paper ever published on what might well be possible communication with extraterrestrial life. Dr. Morrison is considered among those broadly knowledgeable scientists. On the far side is Dr. George Wallace professor of biology at Harvard and a recipient of the Nobel Prize. Dr. Wald has published extensively biology biological chemical.

Structure. We're not for anything like that. That's difficult. But insofar as I could get I tried to get different divergent views represented by the rather scholarly statement from his particular expertise. The order by George Wallace. Actually Finally I'd like to ask that you refrain from after each of these talks until after dark. After the introductory remarks which will have a panel discussion going type format.

Around 40 minutes intermission a bright five or 10 minutes like you get there at the end of the break we return to questions and answers. I thought we might ask people in the audience questions and questions that you might like to come in the latter program. So now I would like to turn to the symposium proper or to. Thank you in trying to prepare you for. Coming. Thomas. Thinking about the stars spectacle

for misery. I suspect in one way or another we will be returning to. Possible stars in the world. What possible contact with. The present time

members have to be especially. Important. People or making their plans on the basis of a careful study of large numbers of extraterrestrial life forms is quite a different story. There we go. In fact at the foot of Mount Ararat ark is said to be beach. Sponsored jointly by National Academy of Sciences of the United States sciences. After a. Meeting with morning Lord

people around 40 or 50 people mostly from Harvard biologists chemists and biologists historians people concerned. A turning point in the study of the subject opinions were expressed. But because I think it marks the turning point the increasing respectability of it is now where we were as a decade or two ago. Ok too speculative to be worth the time. If we were to ask what is the likelihood of

the stars. How many societies might expect there to be seen. Such a question depends upon a large number of factors each of which is uncertain or the kind of things it depends. It depends how stars are made. The more stars there are the more there are. Story. Like. It depends on the origin of life. It depends on the problem you develop depends upon the likely form

of the mighty smart. We're not likely to get in touch with the technical factors many people around us to talk to. Will we debated here again these factors. But after meeting there was not a unanimity of how likely each of these things were but what was clear was that the chances of there being extraterrestrial intelligence could communicate sufficiently high as to justify a search and a critical point but search technology has now reached a point where we could detect ourselves at an enormous distance. And this can be put perhaps most dramatically

by asking the following question. Suppose we took the world's largest steerable radio telescope in the form it will be in another two or three years will resurface as a transmitter. And imagine it in communication with an identical copy of itself. You are further away from each other. How far apart are they when they can't make each other anymore. And the answer is that telescopes could talk to each other from anywhere within the galaxy. Our present technology is able to detect ourselves anywhere in this galaxy of about 250 billion stars. It's an extraordinary fact that we have to pass away from a mere handful of stars. Ten years ago project organized by Frank Drake the National Radio

Astronomy Observatory two stars at one frequency. The results were negative. A group at university announced that they had been doing similar looking at dozen. Stars at the time was broadcasting from there. Doctor you're going to give me permission to. Make this meeting perform recent similar at 21 with. 300 another handful of stars. And they weren't sending anything stars just

the names of what's going to our Barnard Star 9 7 2 6 8 2 1 1 8 5 1 5 4 2 4 8 Epsilon Eridani 61 and. There's nobody around those places a few years ago. Sending anything away at 21 centimeters with the band constant for sure. The most optimistic estimates in the view of many about the number of patients that there might be in the galaxy is of the order of a million. Which means that only one in a few hundred thousand stars as such. Therefore any search. Requires a brief look long term commitment of time. I've been talking about

a question which is often asked is that we're sending the best of our knowledge there is never going to conscious attempt to send a radio message to another star. However there are a number of unconscious and. High frequency radio broadcast out and has been doing since perhaps the 20s and 30s so you can imagine a wave of light carrying on it. You can imagine 30 40 50 like you're saying. That's what they're doing.

That's very interesting. Think about it. I think merely saying that there has been one other attempt to send a message from the earth to Jupiter in the asteroid or

Jupiter from December it will be the first manmade object system. That might be a greeting card on it in case anyone picked it up later. It says very scientific which anybody speak. Here.

I think the chances of this message ever being. Negligible. Conscious. I. Think there's no question but that we live in an inhabited universe. That has life. I was sort of interested in. Carl Sagan's saying there are. 250 billion stars like our galaxy. I've been using the number one hundred billion. But this is an inflationary period.

I rather like paradigms for the situation. 11 stars make a galaxy. Galaxy. Make. Those are good numbers. And as far as traps 1 to 5 percent. Of the stars. Planets planets and. Such places. Just in a galaxy. Contain life. And in those places I think it would be something very like. We didn't have the same creatures during its past lives. The same concept

here and I think that life exists in the property. Examinations. That brings us to a. Central problem. That inhabited you know. Where's our home. And it seems to me that there is separate

technology. In the universe and. We constitute only like. Living things on the air. Like. In the solar system. The chance of breaking out of the solar system and establishing. The chance of any creature in outer space pushing physical contact coming to us from others seems to me. To be. Because in order to do that. I have to at least travel at the speed of light and the speed of light and not light.

So. That physical contact is possible. But kind of contact. And that is communication. And may say so that we can have somewhat unlikely a conversation as this meeting goes on. That I can conceive. Terrifying such communication with. Technology in outer space. You see I see. That such. Technologies exist probably very likely in a number of places within our own galaxy. That in itself. Is a little terrifying

to me. I must say. Because. Of. My view and to cation the human enterprise to save. Myself. As a lifelong scientist What's it about. What science is about. Not to increase the catalog of facts. It's to achieve understanding. And it means a great deal. That's one of the greatest human enterprise. Is our understanding. Something that men have sweated out. To greater dignity. With. Man. You save the thought that we might attract

chess by. Civilization science and technology and outer space. Doesn't thrill me. But just the opposite. You see I think it might be the people but you see that's true of any enterprise one could name. However. To the rest of mankind. You can't think of anything so horrifying that some person would not have a feeling of personal accomplishment and the elation of carrying it out. And I would say the rest of us had better restrain because you see if one did attack if one started some continuous transmission that would indeed

be a way of where we are how far a hundred ten thousand a million. Why not even opinion on imaginably further. Speaking of that project the New York Times the following with some kind of. A reaction and.

Everything. Question. That's.

Right. Do you get much for. Their advanced civilization in outer space. Not that they haven't been killed in Iraq. They do exist but how much do they get. Produce hydrogen and engage in to wipe the. Planet. Becoming a real question. It's a question. Can we keep the show on the road much longer. The question of survival. And that's a central question

for us. And I'm raising the question how general a problem is that. In the universe. Grateful for a box because this gives me the courage to say for sure that's best illustrated by piece of history which occurred some years ago in that city so much given to endemic strikes namely New York with a much valued chimpanzee escaped from the Bronx. And since he was a pretty amiable and intelligent fellow Federalist search was instituted and there you may find this difficult to believe he was discovered in the lower stacks of The New York Public Library at the shrine. You me find this even roll off unlikely then that there exist other forms of intelligent life. And when we say the assumption is that

intelligent form of life exists on this or and at any rate this chimpanzee was found holding in his left hand a copy of the Bible and in his right hand a copy of Darwin's Origin of Species. And at. The. End when I asked for an explanation of the meaning of this he was simply trying to discover whether I my brother's people or my keeper's brother. Was. We. But if your life is the art of drawing sufficient conclusions from insufficient premises is. The state of our knowledge concerning life beyond present. TUCHMAN. I can perhaps I think with some generosity be described as the art of drawing insufficient premises from insufficient conclusion. Now let us begin then with sufficient preps. When we speak of life beyond

what we generally use of course intelligence something resembling. It is highly probable in forms of life in other galaxies in the universe and it to be probable that many of these forms of vastly more intention. This of course may be the principal reason why they are just capturing any form communicating with it. Because it happened just as we regard the rabies or. The highly infectious disease that quarantine the rest of the universe. Has been on this for about as that species Homo sapien was the wise guy who was happening. At the present time is homo sapien as opposed to

the present state. Suggest. This as a food gathering hunting species which we know here at the present time as a humanized development. About ten thousand other forms of highly intelligent and probably living in a healthy kind of millions of years. I regard this as a high probability. They certainly did physically and in many other ways problems and the fact Graham didn't like to judge from the immediate past performances that upon the incoming government will immediately called in the

equivalent of the House Un-American Committee. In order to determine whether these creatures constitute a threat to democracy in Vietnam and whether before the next election it might not be a good idea for the president and vice president pay them a state visit. CIA will of course deny any interest in the matter. And Senator Strom Thurmond will probably put in a bid for one of these creatures as a member. All this stuff. Not since their physical appearance will be markedly different and difference is usually equated with no matter what the intellectual status of achievement of these creatures may be godless healthy ways of life to categorize them. We shall of course know exactly where they belong in the nature of things. We may even find that instead of electing their politicians by happenings they resort to such activities as requiring all candidates to be not only knowledgeable but also lobby

who are appointed to office. Only after they have passed the most rigorous examination we would really have rather a problem. I suppose the American way to be contaminated by such communistic ideas. Finally a court we have a treatment of the American Indian blacks Chicanos and other so-called minority groups and our magnificent record in such places as Mexico the Philippines China Vietnam and wherever else we have attempted to make safe for democracy. How you can foresee what is likely to happen. With the discovery of life beyond become our God given course probably godless habitats to bring to them the blessings of democracy like protective reaction strikes napalm fragmentation bombs and the like. And if one thing is not become good we could show them how to achieve peace by

making will we get even send them someone like our vice president to explain the meaning of. You will understand that the assignment that I was given was already in the form. How might human beings react to discovery of life. And I've interpreted the word mikes to mean maybe property react and how should we react when we are coming to the floor. So now all BS and possible ways in which we might reach to the Beyond do it another way which we might react more creative and more healthy is by not reacting eternal but by responding with every possible interest and friendship. Here to bombs the problem. Communication presents itself. We should have

a mutually intelligible language with the resources at our mutual disposal. There should not be supremely difficult and should not take too much time in terms of like years but it is the communications we make at our initial encounter. And for this I would suggest that no governmental official be permitted to participate in any way not even as an observer. Fame can be an index to the mind and I wouldn't want to go wrong and get the wrong idea from the expression that some of our government officials really wear like a bulletproof waist. Or conversely to find that there is much less there than meets the eye. So I would suggest that independent bodies be set up outside governmental offices outside the utterly

ineffective United Nations operating possibly within the warring association with a university whose object shall be to design possible means of establishing a frank and friendly community relations on a first and continuing encounter. We're beyond it. I don't think we should wait until the country but that we should do our part to prepare ourselves for. That matter. When we first meet may determine the character of all our subsequent relations. Let us never forget the fatal impact we've had upon innumerable peoples on this earth people of our own species who trusted us defended us and who we destroyed and insensitivity and their vulnerability. The simple truth is that we can communicate without success. We must first learn to communicate without

fail successfully and we are a long way from having achieved that. Perhaps that is where we want to be again without learning to communicate with us or with the different peoples and nations. This would undoubtedly constitute a first step in learning to communicate with the young. We go on behaving as if we believe there is very little wrong if any with ourselves especially with ourselves in America. We refuse to face the fact that we are already virtually destroyed ourselves as humane being. And if we recognize any destruction at all it is that of our being. We must recognize that we are suffering from a sickness. Even though this has been repeatedly denied. Nevertheless it is from my point of view as a student of human nature a fact that most people are no longer human beings not any longer

humane beings sick person a sickness induced by the where ship of values which are corrupting the spirit of back and made him the most dangerous creature on this earth. And he cured himself of this sickness. Can one reasonably expect such a creature to be and healthy not on. What one can expect him to do is to be destructive and a good deal of time to be unaware of the fact that he is doing so. Hence to the question how might human beings react to the discovery of life on Earth. I would dance. Don't wait until that light is discovered. Prepare yourself for the discovery by becoming what you want to be by realizing your evolutionary destiny which is to live as if to live and live well. And what is love.

It is the ability to confer survival benefit in a creatively enlarging manner upon the other. And what is that have already mentioned. It is the ability to love to work and to play it. We will begin a program rehabilitation while there is yet time. We may be able to respond to the discovery of life beyond and in time seeing that. We have landed on the moon. It might not be such a bad idea if we tried landing on. Mars by European inquired. What he thought of Western civilization. Gandy paused awhile. And wryly smiling replied. I don't think it would be such a bad idea. Thank you. And I think as a. Theologian.

The possibilities of life beyond. And even communication like. My post reaction is. That's correct. Because it seems always great. To me. When God's world gets a little bigger. And. When I get a somewhat more true view out my place. And my smallness. In that universe. In a way you would say that you know any people who have really. Intellectually and emotionally. Trained themselves for dealing with life beyond the EPF that would be the feel of. Where they are like angels and all the company of heaven. And I'm not meaning that in a simple way. I talk on set

and in some of the books that I dutifully read. Preparation for this great occasion. That of course I think it said that. Religious dogma have held back my development of science and so forth and so on. One of the difficult. Systems. I think it is was. If you live here too. But it usually bloom when. Director. Instinct. And the religious. And the genuine piety are women and man. Have become a man of the. Way. It was awful. One study very carefully and way in which the Christian Church has lived

with changed world views. From a. Time due to the problem like you would appoint him. It was all the hand up that the cyclist was before in terms of put. Him. Back. On the development of a strawman. You come to your. Side. Take the scientific fact. And you would never hear of Jesus overboard or have. Criticized. The scientific world.

They take the world your time to digest level. That's the way in which most of us live in the feel. And experience. Keep looking. From a religious point of view. It's very important to keep in mind. That with this specific question that we have before us. It is a large. And positive. Piece of input. Raising our cost me hundreds. That I find especially important. For. Theologians especially for theologians and religious people. In the Jewish Christian and Islamic. Center.

Because. We do certain. Things that easily happen. One of the great dangers out. Theology. And all of the play. Is what people call anthropomorphism. The picturing of God in the picture of the universe to me and it can be very beautiful. Martin I am speculation. As a way in which one has pictures brought. That up because in one way. That person was right. Come back from heaven. That's good politics. And it might be even more significant to break out. The end of feeling

and experiencing. In a way that was what the old church tried to do with that enormously complex speculation. That was the way it has always been going on with the theology of the mystical experience. And exploding behavior as if everything was by the measure. And in that sense also. A growing cost me. So going to wellness. Human beings like us. All our time and space. More morality of uniqueness rather than absolute uniqueness. Having no illusions about why we are all in the whole.

And to achieve this. But by a growing awareness which I do not find I have. A growing awareness that. That whatever the question of communication. Is highly highly probable. That we are. Only. One. Possible such civilization. Now for that to really sink in. For a man to really become. A part of the cosmos in his consciousness. Is a great achievement. And it is a. Kind of recapturing. That perspective. For which so much of theology is found. It isn't but we not attempt.

That the cosmos is filled with being. That's an interest. What is interesting for man. Is to know of. His importance. And this importance should not be built up. On the basis of illusions of uniqueness. And absolute. And that to me is important. And hence I am excited in listening. And excited in learning. And I have only two final comments. And that money is. We can slip it this way. Not a panel but into a question are. Asking. For various kinds of projects. A question of dealing with

things that will be enormously. Expensive. And. Has something to do with the access of funds. And here I mean education. Not as to their. Importance. But as to the speed. By which we upped the cost for such knowing. And the way we sort out our priorities. And on that one I guess I would come closer to George world. If we look at it from that point of view that is a practical that's a human question. Our. Priority. The growing awareness cost me habitation. It is enormously important for me. And it fits well. Into a growing knowledge of God's world.

And the final thing I would like to say. Perhaps somewhat in relation to what Montague said is that the tragic image of man. With which I am well familiar your logic by experience. That he gave us. Also has something to do with here. Seems to me that man. When he is a prayer. Is a very vicious human being vicious being. That much of the evilness lies. And that is why. It is not only an interesting. But entire goal. Toward learning. Not to hear. That kept in mind

as we look toward. It. What. Should people talk. Perhaps the future is how to. Discuss.

Discussions which present situation. Which is one of. The answers. Imagination is

the most active. Hundred years a hundred years ago. Separates us from. Existing. But tragic circumstance but.

Radio. Travel. Which finally comes together stage of 200 years. I don't have a

message. To. Others attached to it. So I think first of all of this eventually talk which I think will come in 10 years or a hundred years I don't know. Maybe longer. When some satisfactory radio telescope

work or something similar will acquire evidence the. Beginning of a protracted mess out of space. First of all I think the important. Issue most important is the recognition of the existence of the message. Just because they are not what it says and this is called the acquisition of the mass. I do not mean worse Stark's many whites already have been some quite exotic rather facetious but some of the sky. I must have missed me. I turned out to be wrong. I believe that what happened a number of times three times ten times a week. Especially the so you will take a week of verification or something else to make sure it's really true.

Personal recording with their recording. Of something so vastly different from doubt. This is truly the case. If you don't doubt that's what do I do. But that was only the first stage of making this great social ever. So I think of course extraordinarily important message exists and information from how far away it's come what kind of stuff. And. After week after decade.

Obviously interesting. Because. But the people very carefully have the best. Time to technical to. You. You. Thought I was. Greek and the Greek were. From Alexander. Maybe a decade or

two years if I was very in somebody's backyard. Terrorist. Material has. Come to historians for a very long time. Technology and science in question answer such a mass of 10000 books. But. Extraordinary differences. First the people.

Even the biochemistry resembles the. Situation very well. The study will come take. For better or worse the answer to many questions and interpret and test the successors will still be studying whether they could really be right what they say about this result. One different thing is the case of new discovery. Look at me and I don't think any of them fail to profit by reading the literature. Other

universities also profit by reading this extraordinary message which. I think the most important thing the school will bring to us if we can finally understand the description that exists. Despite great technology is a fashion which they could pursue person for a long time but the important questions we could again be able to translate it directly it may cause to be different. But something this way and I think finally therefore the most important effect on humans. Complex time the revelation of the truth like Byron Scott even the revelations of which we. Which we praise have been without aeration

to which to this day. Of course so I did not interfere. I would say terribly expected I don't think we were anxious for that first acquisition to make sure that we are not like a game that I think we can rest for some patients to see what complexity of the world has turned up in the mist. And some of the sort. That our counterparts exist somewhere else. I cannot be wrong either because it is a heavy responsibility to try to represent some sort of approach to intelligence in this extraordinarily large and diverse. Discussion members. As a matter of picking up interest

in others projects. That study the United States which would be a great many hundreds or possibly thousands of light years with the very distinct possibility of picking up a signal there. The cost of dollars over a 15 year period of the project so far as I know has been dropped. Nevertheless whether or not there is a discovery accident Radio Dr. Morrison pointed out years and years ago the chances of finding a radio signal by accident looking in the right hand your sword. Number of reasons why I

was fearful about the possibility of making contact. Let me summarize very briefly some of the reasons why we might want to make a search and why we might not respond to. Why we might want to make. One thing I think it would be a continuing part of the surge of exploration of mankind. We have in large part explored most of our earth as it might be viewed in the cosmos. We are now expanding into the solar system. But there is an enormity of space out there and one might question if the inquisitive mind of man will be willing to be limited over cosmic time periods simply. Secondly from the standpoint of biochemistry surely what must be learned. Possibilities of learning new facts and biochemistry to be truly outstanding. Now it would be true perhaps that that would be robbing us of the benefits of our own making their own discoveries. On the other hand with a person who has cancer today he might not care where Discovery

came from or from the mass Medical Center. Instead he might like to know that discovery was available to him. And finally it would perhaps provide us with the opportunity of joining with the Galactic heritage to find perhaps better forms perhaps ways to solve our environmental crises perhaps improve our own social relations with one another. Survive for thousands of years perhaps they can tell us these problems because by definition they have overcome a lot. Perhaps they could even raise our consciousness make like more enjoy not merely in terms of technology in terms of the arts literature and all the rest. And finally our cultural isolation today not only in our own countries and regions on this planet but most assuredly in our solar system. So if there are tens

of billions of others which the. Predictions indicate might then join a larger collective community. On the other hand there are possible hazards for example there is the possibility of science fiction but as virtually all of the panelists mentioned the concept of interstellar space travel quite improbable Perhaps we should not worry about. There is the possibility of exploitation again repeatedly voiced in science fiction where the creatures wish. It's hard to imagine exactly what they want here. Their body chemistry would be so different they couldn't use our natural resources which seem precious to us would most likely not be precious to them. We are one of many planets many elements in the universe which are suitable for them without enormous cost. Coming here. There is the possible or they would tell us interesting things by means of radio communication which we are in for some

reason. I would like to ask anthropologist if there is any evidence here on Earth that the less advanced. George won't mention. But the radio communication contact is here and many hundreds of years later information begins to trickle take tens or hundreds of years to a much cultural shock. I'd like to ask Starr to respond. Well to very. Few contexts.

Project dollars. Designed for eavesdropping. For their own purposes. You fail to get a message directly to. The construction to be used. For communication. A few decades take. To search

adequately for the hundred thousand or so stars. Which is the number of stars. Even more optimistic. What is the cost of such an enterprise lasting. IT COMES TO DAY. Does not lead us to conclude that. He's excessively. To. The other end. Another aspect of this question is the exploration of space craft. That's important. For example there are simple forms of life on Mars or Jupiter. The answer is yes then the likelihood of the origin of life stories of course.

Imagine a program of exploration of the entire solar system with every planet. Which would land on Mars. What would such a program cost as a program. We do not because it was judged too costly. Such a program would cost less than. The cost on the system. Explore this.

Project. Their.

Response to. Pictures of the space. To the. Picture is. Just hang up.

So I think. All of us are going to have a problem with. Not being able to transcend the problems of our problems to do the best we can. Third and final. Remark I want to make. Statement. From memory but something like what is needed is a general context.

I think. I talk about. Sense. Because traditional. Full contact with the real world. Place comfortable and acceptable where we are where we come from where we're likely to be. And that was all very right. It's very right. And that's because evolutionary point. Kind of exploratory ventures we're talking about seem to me to be precisely the

need to re-establish a cosmic context. By finding out what the planets are like by finding out. Whether there are civilizations on planets of stars. We re-establish a context. For ourselves. About differences being in. Tragic circumstances. But it's precisely does that concern. The one clear lesson from evolution. Is that they may be smarter. But they are not the product of the difficult way that happened on Earth once

and will never occur anywhere else again. When we make contact with beings very different from US are many contexts superior to us. Those prejudices that plague mankind for thousands of years must it seems to me. There may be insecurities about us not being at the pinnacle of creation. But those kinds of problems don't worry me nearly as much as the other two which Dr. Montague alluded. I think once this idea. Of there being one tiny planet. Which has on it. Human beings do not exist anywhere else once the idea of the general thinking of the mass of mankind then. The brotherhood of human beings stands up in. Their search for extraterrestrial intelligence much less the

successful search a vital role to play. You are so. Game. Trying to. Limit any. Difficulty. Which is. Technology. Which is OK. I would. Just think. There are a.

Technology. Question very. Question. Do not. Accept. The possibility. Some continuous transmission that. Completely human. Efforts in this direction. And I'm not really comfortable that what Phil Morrison said about it's difficult. Again the end of the transmission.

Happened interest. The rest of mankind were. Very. Happy. Human enterprise I mean what are you going to do. When it turns out that all the things that make you proud and think. It will be to be a man. Puts you in the position what should we say it's been said here we are sure of that. And. Christine thanks as a theologian. Why it's wonderful because we'll see the wider province of God. How do you feel about. Your guy Preston. I'm very

proud you know. Being men's dorks. And. Having a share of man's God. You see I think we're in a real bind. Chris the stand you've been dean of the Harvard Divinity School I was working for him this morning and yesterday he doesn't even know what a six minute chapel yesterday morning and this morning and what I was talking about. Here's just this question. You see I think perhaps a new parochialism. Judaeo-Christian concept of God which is a highly parochial on this planet that isn't the only god there has been or even is on the planet but we like to think that God is God of this planet and we even claim boy status

with asking you know where that would be an interesting question to ask and I wouldn't even put it in the realm of technology. I never established that transmission. But you see I think our home in space is the solar system. And since religion and I would be so humble as to think that those who have a belief in God. That's the God of the solar system. Do you think it's possible to be a commie. I went to New Chemistry Building at a Baptist college as I recall and the head of department was driving me. He was a band. He was gripping the wheel. And he said what do you think of proselytizing in outer space. I was a little startled. And he went on to say.

That made up their mind and I think we better make up. Space the being Baptist. That question raises some of the statements. Of all the continuing scientific exploration. At one time I subscribe to the idea as a scientist of course should be continuously exploring. I no longer subscribe to that. I do not think that scientific discovery and technological application of those discoveries remains and the principal.

Draw certainly this increase has remained continues to be curious and explorative but also at the same time let us remain exploring all the means by which we can control the application and this is where we have I think. The other point was that perhaps we could learn from extraterrestrial civilization something about how to behave as a human being as an anthropologist. Man I point out that we have. And have had civilizations which we have exterminate which no longer exist from which we could have learned an enormous amount as a human being and that we still have about a dozen of these aside like the end of an

island as the remnant of the Australian Aborigines and the Eskimo all of which are people busy in the process of destroying but not listening to anything. Probably because we are pregnant with act. We also destruct namely that we the sepia cultures and all the primitive cultures so we come from people. It's very improbable that anything from people to respect that. Two differences between. Us.

Were you.

We're. Back working hard as a student of textbooks. There would be. No I didn't

approach. Oh my God. Also. With. Me I replied back with. You. This is a beautiful exposition of the myths we live with. One of those myths is that what happens happens on the basis of the best information. That's not the will. We're in a great world crisis now and it is not a crisis of information. It's a crisis. It's a crisis. Our government has the info. Look there is no major problem that's facing the world today. The population explosion the possibility of nuclear warfare the pollution that we have

sufficient information to move in on at once. And act upon. We're not doing any good. There's not one major threat among the many that are placing us that we don't know how to handle. They're not being handled. Not even begun to handle them. And there's not one of them that can be handled Incidentally may I say as a proud American. While maximizing profit. You want to find out. Why aren't we carefully exploring the Chinese. You'll figure that one out. Why isn't it that all of us who are so eager to learn new things aren't really examining with our government taking the forefront in that job.

The Chinese. The space. And information crisis an example of. That. Biochemistry that's.

The biggest event in the evolution of life on this planet. No doubt about it. The development of photosynthesis. The problem is definitely having had the accumulation of organic matter of living things. Now we could make matter using the energy of sunlight. Big deal. Only a little over 25 years ago. Second biggest event in the evolution of life on this planet. With access to nuclear energy sunlight. And problem controlled nuclear

reaction. And sunlight. Sunlight into our own. Hands. You know within our own control. That has come to us and an explosion. Of hydrogen now threatening our living in a balance of terror and that epic which I hope. The second biggest event in the development appeared in the. Hiroshima Nagasaki. So don't agree with me that yes we all agree that technology needs to be controlled. Let's try and take control of.

The major problem. You probably have to. Play for us. And the chance

to make some. Peace. No. No let me have to know.

Where the problem is. I was right and I think that if you. Start communication that set up such a such a glass so that one wants to speak up again. Yes I did wonderful but. I don't think that if I listened to this panel I'll chime in Rob so I don't know what he does when he sort of comes back to tell us about him so they will tell us about this from the public what if I get the signs right. Just. Improbable. That is not the point. And even

other cultures. So I mean that's what I say so just as you say that isn't. True. I don't want to discuss theology for you. I just want to say one thing. And I. Don't. Want him. Homesick. Transcends that concept. I know I think all kinds of limitations on this kind of concept.

Relievers. It's always right to say something here. And I am silent about this. So I think the simple man created the concept of dog the dog the dog. If you mean drive when you say caught. You might even have in the long run if you think about it to reorganize your behavior toward dogs. I don't want to belabor that but I think to identify. With what I'm concerned about here namely a. Real exploded time. Increase. Across my consciousness. As I can see.

Really coming out of that message. I'm much more interested in that first mention the fact that the message is. Then I am in. One upmanship on various kinds of stuff because it has to do with the final problem I have. So many things tongue in cheek so I don't know the right level to listen to him. He did suggest the solution I'm sure but I really hoped. That the solution. For the. Government. Of the universe. Or perhaps especially as a. Faculty within the

university doesn't give me that. Thousands. I. Didn't have my tongue told I meant everywhere. And irony it was it was like a penis which couldn't help it. And in connection with the University's Professor evaluation of them so simply and beautifully put. And I. Excluded all government governmental officials and agencies and members either in association with the true

university and I do not believe that such a university exists anymore and I believe that education exists. Ah thank you for Professor stormed out of Africa. I mean that's what I mean is that instruction goes on in the universe and from my point of view the degree of the development of a culture is measured by the availability of textbooks in other words the most highly developed which has the fewest text and indeed the fewest teachers those who are in the universe. Collaborate and teach each one may know more than the other. And in short I would suggest that if we are to make any progress in

human relations and relations with any other people on this we had better stop Eve those people who I regard as really about not the people that are in other galaxies and other people and this remark was addressed with due respect to you namely one in quick school pretty primitive peoples except in technology in the way able to relate themselves not only to other human beings. Every animate and inanimate thing in relation to where and when we become agricultural and standing in the direction so beautifully described. When she began it by saying

that man is descended from the apes and is being descending at us in. The universe. We live together. And I think we accept. I mean isn't it interesting that the three great geniuses of contemporary

maybe I know died for a raid and you can think of all the good ones. Quite a number of issues. And did you invest in fact with enough to make into a universe until quite late in their development. I think it's perhaps interesting to note here that Fred quite famous cosmologist has mentioned that it was the number one absolute single criterion that he would quite possibly would be president and unintelligent that civilization elsewhere would be education. Tonight the Sunday forum has presented recorded excerpts from a symposium held at Boston University on November 18th. Life Beyond Earth and the human mind was sponsored jointly by B U and by the National Aeronautics and Space Administration. Participants included anthropologist educator and author Ashley Montagu astronomer Carl Sagan of Cornell University physicist Philip Morrison

Christer Stengel the dean of the Harvard Divinity School George Wald Nobel prize winning biologist for his work in physiology and biology and Richard Berenson of the Department of Astronomy at Boston University. We invite you to join us again next week at this time for next week's Sunday forum.