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Good afternoon and welcome the dbx Journal and I'm Bill got on today's show with that word of course on the Ellen Bucky case currently being reviewed by the United States Supreme Court that will feature on a worker owned us breathless mine in Vermont and uploads an interview with photographer painter Richard Estes whose work is currently on view at the Boston Museum of Fine Art. One of the major decisions likely to be to be made by the Supreme Court in its current session involves the case of Alan Baki his name has become something of a household word. Is an engineer who applied to the University of California's Medical School

Davis and was rejected when the school chose what he claims were less qualified minority candidates. The court's decision is being anxiously anticipated by virtually all institutions and companies that have been subject to the guidelines of affirmative action questions with serious implications have been raised. Should minority group members be given preferential treatment over non minority applicants. Should affirmative action be governed by a system of quotas and the charge of reverse discrimination be applied to minorities at all. The Supreme Court's decision is expected soon. These are good examines some of the implications of the Bacchae case in this report. In 1973 and again in 1974 Alan Baki 33 year old engineer applied to the medical school at the University of California at Davis. He was rejected both times although his grades and test scores were high. Mr. Barkley sued the school claiming that he was rejected because the university accepted

16 less qualified minority students under a special admissions program. He claims that he was discriminated against in violation of the Equal Protection Clause of the 14th Amendment. The California State Supreme Court ruled in favor of Baki agreeing that the university's admission policy was discriminatory. So the University of California appealed that case to the United States Supreme Court. A decision is expected before the court recesses in late June. The Bacchae case has attracted considerable public attention for it confronts the controversial issue of affirmative action programs such as the one used at the University of California where 16 of its 100 slots were reserved for minority applicants. Affirmative action. Games were instituted in the 1960s as a means of securing admission for minorities in colleges and graduate schools. The intent behind affirmative action also grew out of the civil rights will of the 60s. And as described by Alex Rodriguez of the mass Commission Against Discrimination Firman

of action is simply a process put into play to guarantee that those people who have been previously denied opportunities by governmental action are going to be included in those opportunities present today. It's not enough to say we shall not discriminate anymore. The slate is now clean. Let's continue from here because when you wipe the slate clean from the truck and never come off and that you hope it doesn't come off represents history damage done that can never be made. But what could we do in 60 1960s when we were thinking of the process of how you initiate a remedy. And the answer was let's apply affirmative action to specific minorities people of color and people who we can define as haven't been heard by government of action.

Well most Americans agree that minorities have been historically denied equal opportunity. Many do not believe affirmative action programs are the fairest way to make up for past injustice. Says. Ellen Baki argues that the University of California Davis discriminates against white applicants by favoring minorities. Groups as varied as the combined Jewish philanthropist the Italian-American Foundation and the Young Americans for Freedom have taken back east side. MARTIN Goldman regional educational director of the American Defense League contends that past discrimination should be remedied that not at the expense of other people's rights. What what is wrong is when you redress a grievance grievance at the expense of a generation who had no part in committing the grievance and B whose rights are just as much important to the society as any other group. Why should a white male be denied a job simply because he's a white male that it just is racist that's just a discriminatory as the

old practice of them of denying a black and treason to Medco entrance into college. What we're trying to say is that all of that is wrong and that one does not solve the problem of 300 or 400 years of discrimination by centering in a whole new group of people to discriminate against a popular term used to describe this action is reverse discrimination and to back a group. This term is inappropriate for minorities are not in the social or political position to discriminate male Lewie of the antibody decision coalition explains. I think for good we don't think that there is such a thing as reverse discrimination. In order for there to be reverse discrimination minorities in this country would first have to you know become equal which we are not at this point. And then beyond that minorities would have to have a status you know above that of white people in order to discriminate against somebody you know to be in a position

to discriminate. And at this point where minorities don't even have equality. It's up it's not real. The American Defense League agrees that reverse discrimination is an inappropriate term but for different reasons. Mr. Goldman The reality is that there is no such thing as reverse discrimination. There is just discrimination Babie is not a victim of reverse discrimination. He's a victim of simple discrimination. If badly were black and the 16 candidates were right would there be any question of what was done in that situation or whether it was a right or wrong situation preferential treatment. It has always existed in college admissions procedures whether it be accepting a star athlete and a long life child or a gifted musician. Commissioner Rodriguez questions why family of action on the basis of race has become so controversial. We've always had affirmative action for Jocks that affirmative action for people who've given a lot of money to colleges. I can go on and continue

innovating the way we have affirmative action for the group in school. Interesting me when we relate that affirmative action to color all of a sudden we get very nervous and we start saying those people taking our children the jocks who aren't taking the children flood the region over from the ragin wasn't taking the children's lives. The people who were buying seeds were children in school weren't taking their children's lives. The black folk were taking their children's lives. One reason affirmative action on the basis of color is controversial is because many. Graham set specific numbers of minorities to be admitted each year. The University of California at Davis reserve 16 out of 100 slots for minority students. It is this use of quotas which alarms many individuals. Mr. Goldman we don't oppose affirmative action every defamation league makes a very clear and has always made it clear that we support affirmative action programs.

But when affirmative action programs could clearly delineate a number of positions a number of spots anything that smacks of a quota or natural energy which your organization is going to be hell bent on leather to to wipe that out. The American defense league does approve of the university setting goals for minority admissions and believes that schools should actively recruit qualified candidates without using quotas. The antibody decision coalition argues that quotas must be used to ensure minority admissions mildewy. I think that the existence of that number set minimum numbers is very important. If it is it's not on the level of goals. That means that nothing happens. There's no commitment to it. And I think that they are you can point to almost anything. There's almost no result just having the antibody decision coalition may be correct for while the body case is being debated in court. Schools particularly in the

south are decreasing minority admissions. The idea behind affirmative action is admired but the practice is being increasingly rejected. No one can know how the court will decide whether it will discuss only Ellen Baki situation or whether it will confront the broader issue of affirmative action either way. Commissioner Rodriguez believes that a decision favoring Bucky will have an effect on programs in every part of the country. Fortunate. I think one suggestion that one concept of public the public has and what will happen is that magically become interaction for GBH Journal. I'm Lisa through it. Last year people in the Boston area heard a lot about the issue of worker ownership as

employees of the cows and of bakery in Roxbury unsuccessfully attempted to buy the failing operation a more successful example of worker ownership is that for a month as best as a worker owned mine in Vermont. Worker ownership often occurs and the company about to close its operation is bought by its employees who are anxious to save their jobs. This is a situation which existed in Vermont in 1975 when the GFA conglomerate was about to close there. As best as mine the mines employees bought out most of the stock and the mine is still on. By the way its employees today. Now when he looks at the issue of worker ownership and at the specific situation at the Vermont that's best this group in this report. There's an increasing pattern in this country of large conglomerates divesting disposing of plants in their corporate systems which are in fact profitable

enterprises. It seems that many conglomerates are finding themselves too big too unwieldy so they want to cut back. Also many have a minimum standard of return on investment. Therefore a corporation might move to close down a plant which was returning a 14 percent profit because it's standard for return on investment is 22 percent. Well that might make sense when you look only at numbers figures and dollar signs but in human terms the consequences are often devastating to individuals and communities because of the terminations of employment involved. The remodels best is Group Incorporated was formed as a direct result of just such a conglomerate divestiture has been watched ever since by many people to see if such a large scale experiment in worker ownership could work. When the past eight to 10 months there have been more rumblings at the mine than those routinely caused by the dynamite blasting which exposes the seams of as best as rock a controversy arising over a proposed subsidiary of the AIG precipitated a crisis. The workers found that the subsidiary which

was supposedly being created as a hedge against unemployment was being structured. Something which would increase the value of their stock. But not as a place they could enter retain their seniority and continue to work if ever laid off at the mine. The ensuing crisis resulted in stockholders voting out all of the old board of directors saved one and in an overwhelming readiness on the part of workers stockholders to sell their stock when an offer was made by a local business person. Sandy on as a member of the industrial co-operative Association in Cambridge and she's been studying the S.A.G. phenomenon since it began. She talked with me about why the miners would come very close to selling their stock and rion fact they wrote it in a new board of directors under the leadership of a local business person named Howard menarche. A lot of what is happening near can be expected given the fact these people had come to believe in the early days of the Vermont is best group that they would be owners i.e. controllers of the workplace that in

fact this has not worked out in reality that it's in fact precluded by the very structure of the organization. And given this continuing helpfulness. AS. Contrast it against the day to day reality that nothing really substantially has changed. Then I think you you reach a point where the frustration creases in people look for ways out. John looping was maintenance supervisor at the mine when JF was still in control and he seems to have been the first person to suggest the workers buy the mine. He talked with me about some of the questions which were dealt with as the workers lawyers bankers tried to set up the Vermont as best as group and about the philosophy of the A.G. as the management perceived it. What do you get the chief of the employees what White House are you going to run the company how are the organize. There may just so happen in the next day after take already are WANT TO becomes the leader the boss the chief and the well to make no

Indians and probably that it is something at the bank. You just pay and everybody had to put a lot of thinking into it and we had to prove that really we intended to run it as a company were intended to keep the chief as they were you know or someone would be the leaders someone with that knew about the mind that knew what to do with it. And then the rest of the people with state workers as they were before they do seem to be a number of structural problems at V.A. G. The board of directors is heavily weighted in favor. Management seven members of the board represent the 138 person workforce and seven members of the board represent the 20 person management. In addition a number of the worker directors on the board have been promoted to supervisory positions while still sitting on the board. And there are thus fewer direct representatives of the hourly paid workers. There's also no mechanism that we

agee to keep the stock in the hands of the employees as workers retire or prepare to raise families. They sell their stock and because that stock has increased in value from an original $50 a share to approximately 2000 dollars a share very few older new employees can afford to buy it. As more and more of the stock reverts to outside ownership the industrial Cooperative Association suggests that if the workers really want to exercise control in the workings of their company the kind of control they felt would come with worker ownership. They should restructure a v a G on a cooperative model of organization. The new thing a.g would be designed so that voting rights in the company on a one person one vote basis are invested solely in the people who work in the firm instead of in people who supply capital to the company by buying stock. Sandy Young spoke of the distinctive perspective of the co-op. Model and dispel some misconceptions about worker management. It looks at the workplace as being a community and it has this

kind of attitude it highly values the jobs and also equally value is the concept of continuing profitability. It sure is priorities but a number of people say My God if you have a hundred seventy people making decisions every day that would be chaotic. The fact the narrator is 170 people do not make decisions every day 178 people do what we do in our town meetings. They elect people who they recognize to be qualified to make that kind of decision for them and they are sure that there are options available so that they can make the best kind of choice. So Andy Young does not feel that a restructuring of the age is imminent. Employees still want to test the new board of directors but she explains I think what will become even more conscious to them in the future is that it doesn't really matter who is on the board because the source of the Milius is not so much the

individuals as it is the structure which then dictates pretty much how individuals are going to act within it were thing acted out engage she moralized how not to do things when you want to conserve employment which has been threatened as a concept. Once of Congo armored divestiture Soviet she is an excellent albeit for the individuals involved painful learning experience that perhaps will be variable to other groups of employees who are exploring the employee ownership or employee governance route. As an example of how not to go then is how to work a funky for GBH Journal. At the Boston Museum of Fine Arts. It is the work of Richard Estes a painter

the retrospective is on display until August as part of a nationwide tour and unusual aspect of Estes work is that the subjects paintings are taken from photographs that he has made a fact which Estes discusses with a reporter. I was never a photographer but I worked as an art director an advertising agency and maybe that's where it originated because I more. We were doing a lot of industrial type accounts where I would be sometimes going out with photographers and photographing plans for the acts like these control big controlled wars that they have an electric power companies you know very elaborate and industrial subjects and I would do drawings of these for layouts and for the designs in a way. I started you know looking at a lot of these very ordinary things you know when you're

when you're painting you know you tend to just do well. Painters subjects but here I was in a position where I was drawing you know we had a tire count for you know you say it's rubber company so I was drawing cars all day long in this job. And so in a way and maybe that's how the painting you've got I got into just doing these scenes which were right there right in front of me all all day along the streets and I was walking down it seems to me that. What you should do is do that with that you're most familiar with has not doesn't make sense to be living in New York City and painting you know landscape pictures because just you know it's just not your and you should do your own environment and what's around you because that's what you tend to know best. Do you actually select what you paint from the photograph uneasy entire photograph. Well I use sometimes I use more than one photograph. Sometimes I

use eliminate from the photograph Sometimes I add to the photograph Sometimes I use a photograph just as it is depends on you know if I like something if you know if it seems to work or Usually you know if there's something in there that's bad that has this I feel uncomfortable with I'll simply eliminate it or you might add details you know with every painting is different there's no formula. You said you had details does that mean that your paintings then leave being told be area of being totally realistic you know not no object no two dimensional object is ever really realistic I mean there's a certain amount I mean it's got it's it's inevitably you know divorced from the reality of the of the scene itself. I mean simply by being. Put into the medium of paint and you know it's not it's no longer a streak and the

reel is another pair the point is not simply to make a painting of an object for for the sake of the object but to make a painting for the sake of the painting using the object and as elements of the object do not contribute to the painting. And you simply eliminate them. It's not a question of I'm not making some sort of a chart necessarily of those of a New York street. For reference purposes I mean if the story is there as it's not really I don't I don't you know it's not in nests. It's not. That important and actually if you were to go back and go to a lot of these places that I've painted they've changed radically. I mean New York is constantly changing facades of storefronts and tearing down buildings and putting up new building so and I don't think you can find a horn in Hard Art in New York anymore and yet you know I don't I have several

paintings that I've done of more and harder that is that you know so it's no longer as realistic because in the sense of they no longer objects which exist anymore. Is there is there i a game or a goal that you set up in terms of a profession in presenting a part of the photograph or whatever you find assigned is the subject of the painting. Well as you know you just try to do it as well as you possibly can and I you know hopefully as you do keep doing things again and again they get better and better. And that's you know you know I don't think you ever I'm ever going to reach the point where I say my this is perfect you know I've reached my goal. Usually I'm rather dissatisfied with what I do. Tell you the truth. Why. Because it's not quite what I wanted. You know is it. Who was it that said some painters said well I've

forgotten who said one's greatest painting is always the next. And in a way that you always feel the next when you're going to finally do what you want to do that you know you know it's always in the next and the next. And that's what keeps you going in a way. Thursday the 21st to the 22nd 22nd of June of 1978 that's to be turned over to regional news magazine heard Monday through Friday at 4:30. Producer and editor for The Journal is Michael herds his engineer Michael Gerson and I broke up must have something good Thursday. Mm mm mm

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