The First Amendment; Soviet Media

The First Amendment and the Free People Weekly examination of civil liberties in the media in the 1970s produced by WGBH radio Boston cooperation with the Institute for democratic communication at Boston University. The host of the program is the institute's director Dr. Bernard Reuben. The plight of Soviet dissidents and the attitude of the United States government about their difficult straits is front page news today as it should be. Today we're going to bring on this program a personal memoir as it as it were of what it is like to face the situation in the Soviet Union. My guest is Efrem Brook who was a leading director and professor and and official Soviet television and the Soviet film industry until very recently since 1900 and 73 he's been a member of the faculty of Middlebury College and of the Boston University School of Public communication. But before that.

Let me just go over if I may if I'm your teacher. He was It has been assistant director of the Leningrad municipal dramatic theater TV director from one thousand sixty one to sixty seven of the television studio of Leningrad from 1967. Until he left in 1973. He held some of the highest sub ministerial posts in the Soviet television and film industry for example from 67 until 71 he was a TV director head of the TV direction division in the TV and radio radio State Committee of the Council of Ministers of USSR. He was also from 71 to 73. Film director and co-producer with a very famous Russian film producer and director Grigori Chou cry if you you may recall that Grigori true cry is responsible for four such notable films as The Ballad of a soldier. Clear

sky and the forty first which is about the revolutionary period in the Soviet Union. Let me get right down to basics. If Im broke when you turn to your wife Valentino and said One day we're going. What did she say yesterday or today or yesterday or today. So obviously it wasn't unexpected to her. It was unexpected for her. Of course just legally everybody I can see everybody is looking for the open door from that county for a while or four or so or of course it will. It was a great adventure for her and of course she had the will you have to agree to leave if I can see any open door. She was also eager to leave because in addition to everything else

you've personally faced the problem of a certain amount of discrimination because being a member of the Jewish faith the Jewish classification in Russia is not necessarily a religious classification but a racial classification and as such. What were some of your difficulties that you faced even in the high post in the Soviet film and television industry that you had first of all I never underestimate and there never or estimate my position in the House are barred from here I can see it was a great position from your point of view. When they left it was nothing for me and they will try to explain why. What kind of difficulty the difficulty I had as a Jew. I will give a few examples. Yes my car here for Norm the company's Party member and Jewel looks unusual.

How I get this car in this position is simple. Any governor need a glimmer of Jew under him and I find my government just occasionally result that I never will have these kind of position as any other Jew also. But it's happened in the real life somebody has to work and somebody has to present the position so I want I like my job. I was ready and while there I was very enthusiastic. All my life before I decided to leave. The troubles I had as a Jew started long ago when I was a child. I always heard these what they couldn't remember how you pronounces in English it's a Doctor what about you. It was normal expression I expect to hear it. In what dying

before war I was a bit younger. After the war when I had my troubles in my neighborhood even when they started I knew I was fired only because I was Jew. Well let me just bring the audience up on that. Brooke told me before the program that he spent four and a half years as a naval engineering cadet at the Naval Academy in the Soviet Union and he was one person from his religious background. Out of approximately 500 cadets it was two of us two rather out of 500. Just half year before he was to graduated very speciosa charges he was let go and set adrift in Soviet society again. So here is a man who had to start on a second career. What brought you to the radio and television area.

This field is not television because it wasn't if it wasn't there and there but other and journalism was always all the time was my dreams and my engineering career was just because of a set of very specific circumstances so I never planned to be a engineer it just happened. And when I realized that they have another next opportunity to change my life their action I did it stopped my cardio in what was due to what is successful. And they started another life. Ours are systems in the you know the money support the other as a starting point for. Another life or no at the end of this career and I sort of want to talk about it at both ends of the same time. At the end of the career just before you left the Soviet Union you were responsible in this sub ministerial post. And just to give the Americans a materialistic impression of where you were in the system the

Soviet system you had a salary of about 400 roubles a month which contrasts you tell me with five hundred roubles a month that the average minister would get so you one of one of the top people in the hierarchy when you left from the professional point of view not the materialistic point of view you were directing and producing a program called Horizon which was presented throughout the Soviet Union a national television programme that lasted an hour and a half on each program presented twice a week. Now that's an awful lot to give up. So I return to the question because we're terribly interested in in whether or not it was some some aspects of the freedom of expression problem that made you sit down one day and tell your wife we're leaving. Yes this is I understand that this is the well you know why I am here and I am also really interesting in that why you so freedom of

expression how I felt that and what does it mean for Russian creative people. First of all I have to say its very important while you are for intellectual people in America and they can understand it. But as you understand I think this is the second while you for people who are in deep hunger for example. So all I can say that yes the freedom of expression is very important in the Russian life but it's still one of them because they are not in the point when they're free of the troubles. Many kind of They'll think that the only word they need the freedom of expression of course. I felt that. I don't have enough freedom but I was so busy doing my job that this was a second

question. Rs of 4 any havey are in wealth in any business. A man in Russia. What's that. What's the first value. The first is how to survive for tomorrow. The second is how to take pleasure and other things for free expressions. So how does a wife in Russia this is the first question and let me tell you a little bit about that because there is no the understanding of that. You couldn't understand why I'm saying Not saw in not so hypothetic language about the freedom of free expression. Russia Today society in Russia it's a very specific society to to explain what it is. In short language I have to see it what do you value what you enjoy here in your life.

You must do an upside down and it will be there while you. For Russian life to be successful to follow that rules you're going to be successful for example. To be honest is that the normal while you're here to be a great man or good man at least in Russia to be not honest. It's absolutely requested to be successful. You have to lie before you start to brush your teeth in the morning and after you saw the first three. Not to steal. It's one of while you have that life what doesn't make any hero from American citizen to steel is a while you know what you have to accept and follow in the Russian life to be successful or at least to survive. You know this because there is so much conformity that you have to live with. Or is it because because there is so much that you have to do that you didn't decide to do.

I will now explain why because of what. In that society nothink belongs to anybody in their sward everything's belongs to everybody. But when you will try to understand who you are you will understand first of all that nothing belongs to you or to everybody it's another question except one think it is one thing you can ORM and you can wear it successfully when you pull it in life. It's a power a small piece of power will give you as good a basis for life. Rs a few millions of dollars here or of freedom of expression if you don't like money. For example here you are visiting a restaurant. What I'm trying to show by this example that interface. It looks not as dramatic as I explain

here. You're going to get us that and what is what are your movements. You're going to the restaurant. Somebody will open the door for you. You will please the gentleman for me with a dollar and then you will follow him to your desk table. Same ever surfacing of our show you will go to the restaurant. You will give somebody a dollar. He will open the door for you and you will follow to your table. But if you didn't feel some small tweak in these two descriptions you will understand nothing about Russian life here if you please by these dollar somebody who offered you extra service opened the door over there. You pay your dollar in advance for one reason. Somebody who is a doorman who although it's a piece of power not to open the door in front of you will not open it till he will sell this power for a dollar. You know the results already over others you're saying is more important than having property is in this country just to have the power over other people. One of the things that go I think I'd like to turn to you know if I'm broke

is an episode that you told me about you did a program. Which I had as a title something of this nature for your television series. Do we have a management system. And from your point of view it was an innocent kind of a program you were discussing new economic pronouncements of the government or new economic situations. What happened after that program was presented. First of all it was not so innocent because the question about do we have anything. It's not an innocent question. Yes we do. This is the answer for ever and for all the question Who did you know it when you put the question that way that you were being daring or was it an accident. Yes I did. I did but what I tried to do is first of all I was very enthusiastic about this new possibility of what the new deform can offer for us and people in this socialist socialism system.

Second I. I knew in that time of this a little bit dangerous what I tried to plea when they're all rolled. So not to touch with a painful question time was in 1065 it was 20 days before there are communist party and the government proposed a new economical system officially saw the most dangerous point was that I was in jail before they said something about that and this is this was only a mostly dangerous one of the iron rule is that if you're working in the media you say something only after the government has said what it wants to tell you never say anything before about what the government is doing. It is where the polis explanation because that he'll think is you have to say nothing nothing. The here is the hard news is when the man by the dark their hard news is

when nobody buys nobody. This is society. What already reached the start of school and the best news is nothing happened. And I think REAL happened. This is the Best All the Worst is that you can eke out to feel OP 45 minutes for news say nothing. So speaking about censorship what the interesting and freedom of expression you don't have to have a heavy bureaucracy of censors to censor yourself. After 50 some years of experience under that system becomes a habit. You will be the best censor for yourself what happened why didn't you censor yourself on this program. What made you be so creative all of this. Because I was stupid. And let me say something about that for intellectual people who are already a little bit. Or were the daily needs of. So why won't and who can think a little more free after their

business. Arised another question. Who are you. Are you a fool. Because if you are doing something more hard but there are others or better that every age you look like a fool in full view of others. Solitary doesn't depend of your productivity or initiative. Salehi deep belongs to the chair and who is in this chair doesn't matter. So when you work hard as I did in their brother or resample initiative I was a stranger for others. What are you doing trying to assure that we are not working good or what you're doing for yourself you will have more troubles. You will kill your health and we will have problems. The obviously the people. Who watched the program included some people representing other government agencies that didn't like it

and they said what is FM Brooke doing and what are these people doing. Then what happened. That's right. Then what happened. Then you'll realize that what you have to be a fool is nothing. It gives you nothing in life except troubles and you decided to be a conformist and say oh you know I will not do that the first step in New York. Well but before you took that step you are in trouble already. You told me the government put you on trial me I try to pause there because my feeling was was taped and tame in time of the art was arrested then it was a big trial about there. Fortunately I had some official article What first time I mentioned the social processes in the society and how to manage them. It helped me to survive in that case. So to make this explainable to the audience what would happen here was symbolic of the Soviet system at least the way you described it at the start of the program. You got in trouble because you said something ahead of the government and on the way in to your trial you happen to see a copy of the magazine the name of the magazine was

what commonly used was common initial very high and quite accidentally you saw one of the lead articles was on the planning process blaming the social boss manning the social process that was the title of and you took it into the courtroom with you. It was not the court it was just the hearing. Inside court inside court and as they were questioning you and asking you why you did this you were jotting notes from the official article to point out to them that the government had said something about it. And then what happened. You know they started started to blame me for that program and they finished they're going to let me read this blog. So when you show them the article from from the communist magazine what they're occasionally get in my way to the studio in the morning. Yes. You ended up a hero rather than the villain before that for that case but I think a seal was a fool in in in view of my friends around me in studio because what do you are doing why you need these troubles why you couldn't be us. Everybody and I was not unique in that way and I would like to continue my

example just a little bit to show you what's happened if you decided to be a confirmation then what you will do. You also lower down your initiative and you will try to do as less as possible just to give yourself. Doing nothing as you know very well here in any in any governmental job I know at least in America or other kind of non-personal job well it seems it seems to me though f m that your creativity didn't stop. For example I note that you did a couple of technical books one which was published by the TV and radio USSR committee in Moscow in 1970 a 600 page home called TV production which is the television textbook used by many creative TV people in that country. You did one in 1972 called film production which is the textbook for filmmakers of the experimental film school. Most film in

Moscow which is another 500 page were at that point. You have the experience you made a mistake you were you would you were in a conformist you called yourself stupid. Right in 65 House between 65 and writing this book on TV production. Were you a conformist in your work. Let me let me explain it to you. Yes and no because yes I tried many times to slow down my initiative and then I realized and my example is typical this is why I mention this. Then I realize that I am not a scoundrel. Because I know I can work better if I don't do that. So it comes another wave in my life next morning. I said no more whether to be a fool and I get another set of troubles. Then I have my wife and kids who will say listen we need some vacation for that. And I

become a mother. Another time of scandal after you will shake yourself in between of these ages or to be a fool or to be a scandal. And this is the exact warts. What I personally explained to Sue is love not the business I didn't meet him. I said No I asked you. You told one of the highest officials in the Soviet Union what that belief in that country was all changing the management system it was a special occasion I didn't speak with him about my case right. It was an argument for another my my duty. I said or we have to change the measurement system or these people in this country will leave in between of two stages and want to be a fool or want to what did Sushma say to you what he said I couldn't say exactly because it's a video. Well I know what he said he said we don't have enough bread to eat and your mention this who is interesting in that situation and this is he's a

reaction of what you call freedom of expression. But this is also my answer or why I left the country after each of these high position of what humans should do in my way introducing me here. It costs nothing for me. It has no while you have to be even in the business shoes. For me it's much less that to be a taxi driver in Soho in New York because over there I don't know any human being who can leave these clearly ization that he's or a fool or a scoundrel. Doesn't matter what who is he this morning. But he knows that another. Stay she can be in it's only there I go other then if I'm broke. You left the Soviet Union with your family because you faced a dilemma within your own mind a moral dilemma as to your ability to live within the system and every time you lived within the system for a

certain period you became distressed with yourself and you wanted to be a scoundrel again. You wanted to be a fool again as you put it you wanted to make mistakes. But you know the dangers of it. And then when you say that you have given up nothing. It is something to tear yourself out of your own country one knows that it is something to go through all that you have been through in the last few years. But it is important for us to hear that you say that you gave up nothing. In other words you are quite. With all the troubles that you have had economic getting new jobs learning a new language learning a new industry struggling in a new society. You still say it cost you nothing. I still say that I was born not in. John 10:29 Well I WAS BORN IN OUR was twenty eight 1973 when they left but I sure know you this is

my day of birth. And I started my life that day. My ideal life. All that is to was nothing. You you said something before the program you said you you were a dissident. But you couldn't find it out within the system. Are there many people like you in the Soviet Union who are not the saccharin is not the SO to Newton's ordinary people who don't fight it out because they don't have the ability to take that path will say within the system. I can answer because get answered in the recent interview all of them by the chair have I'm not sure that all of them but I can see most of them. But the chair have said some time ago that it will be immoral to request that everybody must be a hero. So I'm not a hero. I had not enough power to stay as a dissident in that country and to struggle against what they hate.

So I decided the easiest way to leave many of them are not strong enough even for their decision and they will still be many of them who will leave they will come back but they need a doctor. I saw. This is the death of Condi. These are the dead and you can stay or you can leave or you can struggle for better. I decided to leave. Well obviously this particular program has been an emotional thing for you and obviously it is. It is something which you're looking back on your own life and we respect your frankness on this subject for us. I think it means something different however the listener gets impressions from this program that the headlines don't tell the only story about distance in the Soviet Union or about the fight for free expression or what freedom means to the individual.

Often we have to reduce the headlines to two persons to people. And I'm very pleased if I'm broke that you are here that you are with us in our you know our work in radio and television and film. I am sure that you would like to be with Grigori to cry working again. You're here in America because we won't we won't say what his views are we don't know what his views are. But at any rate when I hear you say you gave up nothing I. It seems to me to remind me of an old story about diamonds and children. About the father who whose wife was about to tell him that they had lost some diamonds when they was stolen and it was the year the verge of the Sabbath and he knew what she was going to say and he said Hush. Unless it has something to do with the children. Something of value don't bother me at this time because I want to thank you if I'm broke this is Benadryl and saying goodnight.

The First Amendment and a free people weekly examination of civil liberties in the media. Even 1970 the program was produced in cooperation with the Institute for democratic communication at Boston University. I w GBH radio Boston which is solely responsible for its cartoon. This is the station program exchange.