Crocker Snow Reports From Germany; SED/SPD Speakers Exchange

Greetings from West Germany. This is Crocker said I was speaking from the studios of Radio Deutsch of our cologne the city where the world famous Gothic cathedral. The biggest news in German political affairs for the last three months has been the on again off again public talks or public debates if you will between representatives of the Communist SCD party of East Germany and the Social Democrats of West Germany this week. The background of these proposed talks followed by a discussion of their significance by a group of German university students. The social democrats or SPDC make up the second largest political party in West Germany today. In both total membership and Bundestag representation they are just a bit short of the ruling Christian Democrat Christian Socialist Party headed by chance with the Social Democrats have traditionally stood for a more liberal approach than the CDU.

However in the national election last September and ever since the SPDC has been accused of becoming more and more middle of the road in fact little more than an echo of and thus an ineffective opposition to the ruling CDU political analysts say that the lack of difference between the CDU and the SPDC accounts for the recent locally election gains of the NPD. A right wing group often accused of being neo nazis. At any rate the SPDC under the leadership of West Berlin may have really blonde has lately shown some real initiative. The party has tackled head on the largest touchiest and certainly most difficult problem facing the country today. Reunification. Early this spring the communist SCD party of East Germany headed by vaulted brick suggested some kind of a public dialogue with the Social Democrats. Despite the inherent political

risks of the situation the SPDC jumped at the chance. Since then the country has witnessed a frenetic series of contradictory reports about who what where when and how such a dialogue would take place. This would represent the first time since the division of Germany that any high level talks of any kind between Germans of the West and the east would take place. There were many complications. First was Billy blunt as a key man in West German public life correct in dealing with the communists himself rather than through the West German government. Would this only serve to strengthen the East German claim of being a separate national entity from West Germany. Brant settled this by declaring that he would resign as mayor of Berwyn and act as a private citizen should the West German government object to his actions. A second complication was the status of the East German officials when travelling into the

West for the debates party boss volatile brick and other SCD officials are officially charged by the West German government with the murder of all those Germans who have been killed trying to flee the east. How could men charged with murder be allowed to travel freely in West Germany. This roadblock was apparently overcome in mid June when the government passed a special law invalidating the prosecuting authority of the various Lenda on special cases of higher national interest. In other words the way was clear for brick and other officials to travel into West Germany for purposes of the talks with SPDM officials. After a painful series of public letters and negotiations a so-called speaker's exchange program was set up the idea was free public discussion between S and S P D officials first in a city in East Germany and then in the West. The date was

first set for May the city's campaign it's now called Col. Mark Scott in the east and Hanover in the West. The SPDM even named their speakers. Brant and his two top deputies Vanna and Fritz Ala. Many came and went with no talks really blonde's early promise of in May or not at all was forgotten as the communists suggested July as a more appropriate time. Dates were set July 14th in Cannes it's July 21st in Hanover. This too has now fallen through in an international press conference in East Berlin on June 28. The Communists announced that plans were set for the talks encampments but that the West German special enabling their travel in the West was unacceptable. They would not come to Hanover under the existing arrangements. So the proposed talks are once

more at an impasse. Some officials here are suggesting that perhaps the differences can be ironed out and the plans postponed until September. Others are skeptical saying that the communists have never had any intention to participate in a speakers exchange that no matter what the concessions by the Federal Republic the communists will find a way to block it. But whether the talks take place or not there is real significance in the reactions of the German people. Reports from what the West Germans call the eastern zone indicate intense excitement over the prospect of the talks. Newspapers carrying the open letters of the SCD and the SPDC replies were a sell out in East Berlin and elsewhere in West Germany. It seems clear that most of the population supports the efforts of the Social Democrats. The people want the talks. If only as a first timid step in what they hope will finally result in the long hoped for

reunification of the country. The reaction of West German students is of particular interest as the younger generation they have trouble buying the seemingly unbending animosities of the past. Neither do they know from their own firsthand experience what a united Germany is all about. Thus their reactions are not stereotyped by what Senator William Fulbright once called the old myths of foreign policy. At the end of June fellow reporter Elmer Klein and I traveled to the capital of West Germany for a discussion with seven selected German students of Bonn University about the proposed speakers exchange. At the time it was thought that this might still take place in July. We know differently now but the possibility of such talks sometime in the future is still open. We first asked the students for their opinions about the importance of the attempts to set up the speakers exchange.

And here is my answer to this first question. Mr. Mom. If I give my opinion about the meaning of this exchange I think I have to repeat what the SPDC promises itself out of this exchange I think. What it promises itself is probably correct its not too much on the one hand and there are really three things which it believes and which I believe will come out of this. On the one hand the SPOG goes from the position that we in the West do have the strong arguments and we want to take this opportunity to be able to freely present these arguments in the Soviet Zone of Germany since one of the points in this exchange one of the points of agreement is that the. Speaker exchange is

freely reported and that there is no restriction on the free report of the exchange. The second I saw that on the one hand we have an opportunity to present our arguments on the other hand. This is an opportunity for one of the major West German parties to present our arguments. The West German arguments to the people freely in the Soviet Zone. A second point is that this is a demonstration. On the one hand for the people in the Soviet Zone on the other hand for the people in the world as a whole that the German people do not treat God the German question as settled it is an open question. And I think this has become very clear. In the effort on the part of the East to postpone the talks which were originally planned for earlier until after the visit because this is a demonstration that the German people are not satisfied with the division

and the third point is one of the directions of the SPDM Germany policy namely that we can have a Germany policy below actual reunification. We can have leverage points on a on a human basis we can have small steps this is the SPDC policy of small steps particularly that we can have human alleviations for instance free traffic in but when free traffic in the neighborhood areas along the zone of a free exchange of newspapers books and periodicals statement very good likes. Yes good point. I don't think it's so much the question during this meeting

or exchange. To to manifest that one side has drawn her argument. I mean after all neither party will be able to convince the others of their own opinions but I think it's their main importance lies in the fact that they're willing to come to to talk together. And I don't think any of these side should try to lower them to impose their opinions I'm just just starting the meeting with with the idea well we're the stronger because that won't get us anywhere at all. And I think this is just another kind of cold war and a different level. I don't really think that would improve anything however except this meeting is just a fair chance to both to both sides. I think that that make might get us something if it's just only the fact that you are willing to talk together. There is still another point to be raised by Klaus Ford. Well I think we have to take into consideration that we that is to say

the government of the Federal Republic has pledged itself to well nonviolence. I could say that is to say that they don't want to change anything of the existing order by aggression or by violence. Now the second step would then be who could change that situation in Germany as it is now which has to be changed in the opinion of most of the Germans. So the official statements always say we have to rely on the four powers that have caused this. I just may have made disagreements about the division of Germany as it is now. So we have to rely on them to solve it which I think is ridiculous and becomes after 21 years even more ridiculous because nothing in that regard has really changed. That is to say what has changed is only for the worse. If you take into consideration what happened in the rising in 1953 and the war in

1961. So we have to ask ourself who wants reunification. And I think it is a little bit naive to think that the Russians that the Americans that the English or that the French want our reunification because most of these states are very much interested that we do not become let's say a very strong power stronger than we are already if I may say that so I think the only consequence of that is that we have to speak which means we Germans whether we are on the eastern side on the western side. And I think even the consternation in the especially in the Christian Democratic Party which has arisen after the after the first talks between the SBT and the city officials shows that we really haven't thought of the reunification reunification becoming a reality because nobody really knew what to do then. The chancellor called the parties you know every every week or every Monday

to reorganize the German policy or to get it together on one point. So it seems that for the last 20 years or last 16 years we haven't really been thinking in terms of realizing that the aim of our policy. And I think the last point would be that in such a confrontation between communist because and Democratic speakers if you want. It would come out that as I think we more real to to the people in East Germany then they are to us. That is to say we always talk of packages we send across the demarkation line and maybe visit our relatives. But when you have been there I think you realize that they look much more to the west for very basic and material reasons which is to say they don't look to us because we have freedom and democracy so much as that we have a free economy that we enjoy more the products we produce and

so on and so forth and I think it's because the exchange rate is as it is proposed. They also would become more real to us and I think that would be very important for understanding each other. Of course there are essential difficulties in Iran using the speakers exchange and especially the level on which it is arranged. On this point Yahoo morning felt well if I speak about the significance of this planned meeting I would like to stress the motivations were to bring both sides from east and west to bring about this meeting. Both sides want to change things by their influence. That s a d from is Germany. First of all I think once to move towards recognition in the eyes of the world and secondly to produce a gap. Between the two

leading parties in western Germany the CDU of course the government party does not participate in this exchange of speakers. It is the opposition party and I think it's not an important motive of the East German a city to try to get in to close the contacts with the SPDC because they hope in the future the SPDC will support in one way or others that their views and the final end of the SU is to make West Germany its politicians and its people willing for confident aeration. You know they take the standpoint that there exist two states in Germany but we in the West do not think that they exist two states in Germany because East Germany is a territory set up.

By Russia. The SBT I think once to appear in the East as a free and democratic party and to to ask the SCD to render account for their policy. And both sides run a risk and the risk which the SBT runs depends to a certain extent to what the government party the Sea-Doo is doing. And I think in this respect the CDU has not been too helpful. Of course they have agreed to this law the so-called exemption from federal legislation. That means if the speakers of East Germany come to West Germany they will not have to be afraid to be arrested for crimes which they have committed and

their restriction of the CDU I think in this. Matter is not very positive because the ruling party should not just sit there and demand re-unification from the four powers from Moscow and Washington Paris and London. We ourself. I think you have to take initiative and that is what the SPDC has done. So now you have heard from several of the students concerning what they think the significance of these talks will be if they take place. The second obvious question is if the talks take place what the actual result will be done Jules does not believe that there will be any spectacular results. I think the main advantage of the speaker exchange is lies in the loosening up of the rigid attitude of we and they I think after the

speakers change and people will see that we can do something except standing there and appealing to the great powers. I think the idea that we can speak to another and have contacts on even if you only speak another and come to know each other and their arguments and become no arguments I think that will make our policy more flexible. But there's also much skepticism about the result of the speaker's exchange. Here's Miss Helen Brier explaining her view. I think that the speaker's exchange were not at odds to solve the problem of real unification because people in the dead hour are taught to be dogmatic and those who will be sent to the speakers exchanged by the government. Will really believe in their

policy of the communist government. There will be only one free side if you may call it so and that will be the group at the side of the SPDC. I think that we both. With the Democratic side and they the communists want reunification in their in their ways. We wanted on Democratic base and they wanted what they call a Democratic base but which we called the Communist place and I think. We can't agree because our ideology is too different. I think it's it's no question who is right whether we are right or whether they are right. But I just think that it is impossible to agree with each other. And I think and I it's my point of view and not I think there are many will think like me that we have to first to accept that and that only than we can try to come nearer to each other to see

any value at all in these talks don't you. You seem to imply that you think there will be no progress because the differences between east and west are so great do you think there is a value in the talks. Well at least I think our government represented by the city hasn't done anything yet but talked in western Germany to our people. And I think at least it is right of the SPDC to show that they want to talk and that they want to have contact with the DDL a somewhat different rule is presented by Mr. Munder. There are two things I'd like to say on the one hand I disagree with what Mr. Brio just said. I don't think that the point of this exchange is to achieve the unification I think if we look at it in that light we are mis understanding what this speaker exchange and wants to

achieve. And this is On the one hand as I already said it's a possibility to tell something freely to the people in the Soviet Zone. It's a demonstration to the world that this problem is not resolved that we are interested in resolving this problem and that we are not content to let the question rest with the foreign powers. And thirdly that perhaps here we can find some leverage points in making the situation less rigid in finding human a levy ations and perhaps having some free exchange in Berlin and so forth. But then there's another tendency which worries me that has come to the fore and us. In discussion and that is the strong emphasis on this is. The way in which we are showing that we are going to do something about this. Well I think we have to realize that yes it is a way of showing that the German people are

interested in reunification but we cannot forget that we'll never get to go to fixation without the other powers. The Germans are not going to reunify by themselves the other powers of mightily interest and I think we must realize this. I think we must realize that reunification will only come in a wide security system. And this includes France. This includes Britain and I think France is interested in German reunification I don't think France is not interested France is interested in a European system and the only question is does it include the United States. Some people say yes some people say no. I think this is part of the motivation on the part of the SCD. They think that perhaps Here is an opportunity to show the Germans. All right. On the part of my skull because I think they have agreed to this as an issue to that to say well all right. Perhaps you can reunify but without Americans and then perhaps the

Germans will say well all right Americans. You know we're not too happy after all with you and the Americans who are a little bit tired of Europe anyway and want their troops in Vietnam. This is the communist line of thinking perhaps may pull out. So this is a question with a without the right answer but I think certainly with the other Europeans cannot do it without close Calderwood has discovered another point of importance in the results which he expects from the speakers exchange. But I think that since the end of the war at least since the establishment of the Federal Republic we the people in the western part of Germany have always been told that whatever did go wrong whatever didn't go right happened so because the communists didn't want to act along with our proposals. And I

think. We have and not only in Germany. Made of the communists bogeyman but not what the basically. Human beings. So I think some of the results would be first. That we the people of West Germany will find out that communists are human beings. And secondly I think that we would even go so far and realising that even communist functionaries. I do in beings. And thirdly that within this set of ideas and dog mice which of course we think limited and obsolete they try to further the good of their people. And I think that be very important for us to to see and realize you have been listening to seven German students of Bonn University giving their opinions about the proposed speakers exchange between the Communist Party of East Germany and the Social Democrats headed by West Berlin mayor blunt of West Germany.

These talks were first scheduled for May postponed until July. And just two weeks ago postponed once more this time indefinitely because of a series of disagreements between the communists and the Social Democrats. But there is still a chance that the speaker's exchange will take place some time. If so it will mark the first time since the division of Germany that high level talks between Germans of both parts of the country will take place even if the exchange doesn't take place. Just the fact that the effort has been made strikes many Germans as the important thing at this stage in history. This is Crocker Chenault speaking from the studios of Radio Deutsche of Cologne West Germany. This is Paul Aarons as Crocker snow indicated at the beginning of this week's report the proposal for east west talks is part of a new assertion of opposition by the Social Democratic Party to the ruling Christian Democratic Union. A further sign of this initiative is in

the result of the Rhine Westphalia election this past Sunday July 10th. The New York Times of Monday July 11th reports the SPDC scored an important victory in Sunday's state elections in the key state of North Rhine-Westphalia. The Social Democrats won forty nine point forty seven percent of the vote compared with forty two point seventy seven percent for Chancellor Le Big Erhard's Christian Democratic Union. The free democratic party the minority partner and bans coalition government garnered seven point forty two percent of the vote. The social democrats that's become the strongest single party in North Rhine-Westphalia West Germany's most populous state. The results of the state election are considered a blow to the political prestige of Chancellor Erhard who campaigned actively for his party. However the Social Democratic victory does not necessarily mean that the party will govern North Rhine-Westphalia since the party fell short of a majority. The CDU and the Free Democrats may be able to continue their coalition which has governed the state for four years. The

Socialist victory may reduce the Christian Democratic majority in the blunders for the upper house of parliament in Bonn to only one vote a blunder. Unlike the Bundestag the lower house represents West Germany's 11 states in proportion to their population. This is the second clear victory in a state election won by the Social Democrats since the national elections last fall. Hamburg also recently gave a substantial plurality to the Social Democrats North Rhine-Westphalia which includes the heavily industrialized district has been suffering from a series of economic setbacks including a crisis in the coal industry and a weakening of the big steel companies. The chiefly industrial cities voted heavily for the Social Democrats the Christian Democrats held their own in the business centers such as Cologne and Duesseldorf Baan also return Christian Democratic candidates. This dispatch was written by Philip shade color for the New York Times July 11 and this is Paul Aarons.

Singing to the opinions of seven English speaking students of Bonn University about the proposed speakers exchange between the Communist Party of East Germany and the oppositional social democrat party of the West. These talks are scheduled to take place in two weeks time but the actual fact is not yet determined. Now of course since the talks are not yet totally established this may well be an academic question. The talks may not take place at all. This presents the obvious question of if the talks do not take place. Has all of the talk and all of the efforts for the last three and four months has all of this been worthwhile. Is it worthwhile for the West German government or for the West German oppositional Social Democratic Party to pursue such a course. Is the fact of just showing the world that West Germany that the federal republic is interested in such talks is this worthwhile. And is there any chance that if the talks did not take place now

that at least the idea has been suggested and that they may take place in the future on this now almost beat on Laos. Well I'm very skeptic about these talks and I my opinion is that there won't be any talks at the moment. But still than in this case if there are no talks I think the results well uble enough at the moment because there has been a stop now a connection between the two sides. Mr. Yost said just before that the rigid position have been weakened through the efforts to come to a talk on both sides. And I think to now people on both sides in Eastern Germany and here in the Federal Republic have heard about the opinions of both sides in the

newspapers. Even if this is not enough I think we should try to go on to try to come to. Exchange of speakers shame both sides and we have seen these efforts and the ballparks agreement when they started. First they had great difficulty and they couldn't come to an agreement. But at the end. Small elevations have been arranged and this goes on and in the same way we should try to work together on the way to the speaker's exchange. Another view is presented by a band. Well I hope that the speakers exchange will take place because otherwise if it doesn't take place it will have a serious disadvantage in our future policy. There are people who believe that you can't talk communism.

Will have another triumph in their hands and they say well you see you can't talk with communists and therefore I think if this biggest change doesn't take place it would be a serious setback. And our government is advocating a more rigid policy will think it's right and I think we the I think more reasonable policy of small steps. Will lose much of its support. That's quite a fundamental point which is raised by your own family. I only want to say a few words to perspire and I think if opponents talk to each other there's a chance that they eventually will be able to settle their problems. Klaus Funderburk it believes that the point of

peaceful activity reflected in the effort for speakers exchange is very important. Yes I think even if you fail to realize the hopes now in two weeks we should go on either the Social Democratic Party or the Christian Democrats or anybody in the true parts of Germany to talk because I think this is really what you may call an age of violence where hundreds die on the road every day and in small and in big wars all over the world. And nobody seems to care really unless blood runs from the front pages and pages of the newspapers. And when we have pledged to solve this question peacefully I think there is no other alternative then to go.