Crocker Snow Reports From Germany; Max Lerner in Berlin

Greetings from West Germany. This is Crocker said I was speaking from the studios of Radio Dyche of our cologne the city where the world famous Gothic cathedral. This week two quite unrelated features first a report on a recent visit to Berlin by the celebrated American author journalist and teacher Max Lerner including parts of an interview with him about the world situation today. Later in the program a brief look at West German television its similarities to end differences with the American system. Max Lerner professor of American civilization at Brandeis was in West Berlin for a brief visit in several interviews and two addresses. He made a number of pertinent observations about new trends in American and world political affairs. On the first night of his visit. In a speech before one hundred fifty German guests of the U.S. mission Berlin Professor Lerner spoke on the

subject. Revolutions in United States civilization. Certainly a suitable subject for the author of the widely acclaimed book first published in 1957 entitled America as a civilization. His audience was made up of in embassy jargon return nice Germans who had once lived in America in connection with one of a number of German American exchange programs such as the American field service Fulbright Program German academic exchange program etc.. The short bushy haired Russian born professor wasted no time in presenting his basic thesis. America he said is probably the most revolutionary society in the world today. He traced the major social changes and transformations revolutions as he called them in American history with particular emphasis on the last 30 years. He talked of the War on Poverty The War on racism the war on the slums

Medicare. He talked of the contributions of recent administrations the New Deal the new frontier the Great Society the Eisenhower administration was notably absent in this lineup in discussing American social revolutions. Professor Lerner named the most important one as being the revolution of access the access of opportunity. He added that the most fundamental American credo is that of providing all people with an equal chance at life chances. However that part of his speech most meaningful to his German audience was when he talked of the growing gulf between the intellectual and the power elites of the U.S. in the question and answer period following the speech. Several Germans in the audience expressed the idea that Germany has rarely if ever in its history had any dialogue between the thinking man and the political man and that perhaps this accounts for the instability of the country's modern history. Professor Warren I would not comment directly on

this saying only that a society with no hospitality between its two Elites is a society in serious trouble. The following day the professor participated in a radio interview at the Armed Forces Network studio Berlin. Speaking just two days after the initial American bombing raids on North Vietnamese oil depots on the outskirts of Hanoi and Haiphong easily switched his observations from the domestic American scene to world politics he spoke of the Chinese objectives in the current situation. The Chinese communists have unlimited aims they would like to dominate not only dominate in Asia they would like to dominate within the communist camp and replace the Soviet Union and ultimately they would like to wipe out American power and organize a world in which their communism shares power with no one else.

Those are their unlimited aims but of course they have very scarce power resources to work with to fight with. They've just begun to develop atomic weapons. They're in a situation where they don't dare extend the war even now that we have the. The rim of Pong and Hanoi they don't dare extend the war because if they tried to extend it it would mean that they would open themselves to a bombing of their atomic facilities which they are very aware of. And so all that they can do is to use the very limited means of guerrilla warfare revolutionary outbreaks all around the rim of power and of propaganda. But they are waiting for the time when they will have missiles or any intercontinental ballistic missiles and at that point they will be able to

confront both the Russians and the Western world in a very different way. And what about the Russian attitude and policy toward the war in Vietnam. Professor Warner the Russians are caught very badly. They're caught between their desire to keep China from becoming the great communist power and placing them on the one hand but on the other hand. They then there is their fear that if they don't support the Hanoi government the Chinese will be able mercilessly to use this against in their competition their political warfare between Russia and China as a result the Russians or the man in between in between their fear of China as a power and their fear that China will fight them in political warfare. I would not like to be

Brezhnev today because Brezhnev really is he's in a bind. Let's put it that way in a bad by now what he's trying to do is trying to to support Hanoi so that he can keep Hanoi from falling into the arms of Peking. That's number one. You want to support Hanoi until Hanoi either wins the war or gets out of the war with honor and with some gain. That's his hope. I suppose he just hopes just as much of the war will end as President Johnson does because he wants it to end with Hanoi again and only coming out well and the chances are very strong I would say that the war will end in time what a year or two years that it will and that out of it will come some kind of. Some kind of settlement which will save face for Hanoi.

Just as it will save face for the United States. But by saving face for Hanoi it will also save face for Russia. And that's what Gratian I was really driving at and then that will give him a chance to go back again to the dialogue with America which was broken off when the war really got serious dialogue which began actually with the Nuclear Test Ban Treaty between America and Russia and the other nations which Kennedy inaugurated. You see if we can come back to that then there can be what I call a concert of powers that is not an alliance but a meeting of minds between the great powers particularly America the Soviet Union England France Germany Japan India or wherever else wants to come in including China. They want to come in a meeting of minds to mung them to prevent further proliferation of nuclear

weapons and anti-proliferation agreement that's the next step while we're in West Berlin. Professor Max Lerner also talked about subjects closer to the hearts of his hosts. Europe and the German question. The author of the influential book The Age of overkill in which he points out that because of the power surplus of the nuclear age countries are forced to resort to political warfare takes an avid interest in fresh approaches to old foreign policy problems. Speaking at a time when General Charles de Gaulle was just winding up his 11 day trip to Russia the Brandeis professor suggested some of the ramifications of this while talking with AFN announcer Herb Olson. Now the goal is still here as a great phenomenon to indicate that the impulse toward nationalism is still a very strong impulse and I don't in any sense underestimate it. Yes I want to bring that up now isn't the goal in reality trying to create a new

power cluster possibly of the European nations but with France as the center of power. Now I wouldn't quite put it that way. I think that this is actually what the European movement is trying to do I mean the movement for European integration which is opposed to this is the movement of money and the movement of house time and still movement of the whole European group. What they feel is. They would like to create a Europe which is strong enough by putting all of its economic and political and military forces together strong enough really to serve as a balance between the American power cluster the Western Power cluster and the communist. Now the goal doesn't have this idea the goal is against the idea really of integrating Europe. What he really wants is what he calls equilibrium or balance. This isn't his favorite term now is equal Librium which really means the old balance of power system. And the

reason he wants that of course is that he knows that in an integrated Europe France would not be dominant. You need to go to Europe it's much more likely Germany with its much greater economic power particularly unified Germany reunified would be dominant. And this is one reason why De Gaulle is against German reunification really. Although he won't join the Russians in recognizing East Germany and and continuing the division of Germany is also actually against German reunification. What he wants is a Europe very loose loosely related states which each of which is sovereign and within which France given his kind of leadership and prestige can can furnish their real domination as you speak in your book about the reunification of Germany being a prime importance. Under what conditions could we actually see a unification of Germany.

My target date is somewhere around 1975 or 1980 and the reason for that is that I believe. That in terms of a timetable you know the Germans have been saying let us reunified Germany first and then that will lead to the detente in East Europe and west Europe reunify Germany France then you can reunify Europe. But actually I think that German leaders privately not publicly but privately have now agreed and I know that the German young people feel this way because I've been speaking to them at various universities. They now feel that the time table is more likely to be get a detente between East Europe and west Europe first and then you will get the chance to reunify Germany. And that's why I say the time table target is very likely to be at least another decade 1975 or 1980 it would take that long to bring about a genuine detente between east and west Europe and then to set about the task in that new

political climate new political atmosphere to set about the task of bringing together the two Geminis again. This target date for German reunification doesn't come as such a shock to many West Germans as one would think. It seems that the population particularly the younger generation is fairly realistic about the continuing logjam in the situation. The recent breakdown of the scheduled talks between the Communist Party of East Germany and the Social Democrat Party of West Germany only served to underscore this. The German question aside Professor Werner forecast other developments in American and world political affairs a question about Vietnam. I think our policy in Vietnam. Whatever we may believe about the wisdom or unwisdom of having gotten in so deeply I myself think it was not wise to get in so deeply. But that's a historical problem. The fact now is that we are in. And I think

that the United States today is acting very well in trying to hold on to yet another situation until we we can get the other side to talk peace really to talk a negotiated peace which would not be a surrender for America. And I believe that Johnson's present policy President Johnson's present policy will succeed in that way in the next few years. Now if we can do that then it gives us a chance in the Europe of today really to carry out a policy which I think is a desirable policy which is for America to help so far as possible to bring about a detente between east and west Europe and to use NATO's by the way I use Naidu as one of the instruments for doing this. I believe that NATO's not only a military structure which it must continue to be but even more important in the new atmosphere it must serve

as a political structure the only real political structure to unify Europe that exists in fact today serve as a political structure to bring about under realistic conditions this new detente this new moving together of the two Europes into something like one Europe. If America can give the lead on that then I believe that America can exert and Norma's influence and prestige and economic power and all the rest to build something like I won't call it an Atlantic community but I call it a kind of Atlantic culture. You know I'm convinced the De Gaulle with all of his present wonderful acting on the stage of European and world history is only acting. That is what he has a magnificent flourishes and a wonderful style but he does not have power. He does not have power he belongs to the old system. He is the

last of the Romans. He's trying to move into the future by walking backward into the future. He cannot do it. And what is mostly against the goal that infuriates him is that America does have power and particularly that America has this enormous scientific and technological power and he knows also that these countries in Europe both West Europe and East Europe are moving almost instinctively toward America because they are going through the same basic changes in their social life and attitudes that we have gone through 10 years ago. And in that sense the so-called Americanization of Europe is a reality. It's not a form of imperialism. It is the fact that these European peoples want to live the kind of life that we are living. I see it all through you. And in that sense de Gaulle has the whole future against him. Well one effect now will be with the fall of France from a go have a nature with self.

I think what is happening I was in Paris last week and I talked with some of the native people I think what is happening is that NATO has to pull itself tighter constrict its limits within which it can operate. But what is also happening is that they are having to modernize. You know they're carrying through a kind of MacNamara revolution. Cost accounting one of modernizing their forces and each of the nation members of NATO is doing this. But mostly they are transferring their base from a purely I mean their basic underlying basis from a purely military operation to a political operation and I think this is healthy. Yes but now you talk about all these wonderful things for Europe or Western Europe and all. We still have in mind the grand design of the communists. Now how can we resolve this conflict here between the communists between the West and their ideas. Oh the grand design of the Communists is pretty bankruptcy I guess I'm one of the people I've tried to study this for some time. I think I'm one of the people who

believes that the wave of the future is not at all a communist in that they never will make it that way. You know they're having far more trouble than we. No communist country has yet been able to resolve the problem of producing food. And don't think that the people of Europe don't know it and the people of the world. You can't read The Communist Manifesto to a cow cow simply won't believe it you know the mone understand it they don't know how to produce food. The peasant loves his land he doesn't want collectivized land. In that sense communism is not an organization for the future and in the Soviet Union in Eastern Europe they haven't even been able to organize their industrial development. The Soviets are now going through a crisis of industrial organization and most of all the Kremlin is not able to hold onto its east European satellites. They are rebelling in Roumanian Hungary they are rebelling and why are they rebelling because they want a better life. And the Soviets the Kremlin can't prevent them from this. And where is the better life for them. It is toward Western

Europe and toward the United States. So that in that sense you see when I speak of a detente I don't mean that the Russians love us of course they don't. I don't mean communism wants to give up its grand design of course it doesn't. They're just as intent as before but they haven't got the power to do it and they're not able to hold their power cluster together. What is winning out for us basically is the feeling on the part of so many people that the things that we have been able to do in our rather inarticulate way without an ideology you ordinary things of life of living standards of travel and education so on. These are the things that they want to. That was Professor Max Lerner during an interview while in West Berlin early this month. His words were a preview of much of what he said during a public address at the Free University of Berlin on the second and final night of his visit is subject them American foreign policy in the world.

Thus despite the brevity of his visit. Max Lerner author syndicated columnist and teacher left his brilliant audiences with much food for thought. When asked whether he considered himself a liberal or a conservative he replied I'm neither. I'm neither an optimist nor a pessimist. I'm a possible ist. I don't think it's in our stars but you know ourselves. Now for something quite different for the remainder of the show. Let's turn to the subject of German television one of the most all pervasive and persuasive gadgets in West Germany's much discussed economic miracle is the little box in the corner. The television set some 12 million TV sets are now owned by this country's population of fifty eight point five million. This is an increase of more than 35 percent in the last three years and new ones are being purchased at the rate of 200000 per month. The TV sets are turned on for an average of two and a quarter

hours every day. No idiot box this in West Germany for the simple reason of the quality of the programmes the stations are regulated by the various states and by councils of influential men from all walks of life. They are essentially noncommercial by nature and independent and nonpartisan by law. The end result is the German programming is far more balanced than what former FCC chairman Newton Minow called the vast wasteland of American commercial television rather than a standard fare of mystery cowboy and quiz shows German television is a nice mixture of the light and the serious. It serves as both an entertaining and an educational influence on the population. One part of the broadcasting regulations of the house is show run for flank foot for example reads the station is for the population. It must be impartial independent and free of all

influence. The programme should include news commentary entertainment education and instruction. Religious mass and Cultural Affairs. It should promote peace freedom and international understanding. This is a tall order. But West Germans are ever mindful of the infection which can be spread by a too centralized Broadcasting System. The influence of Joseph Goebbels during the years of National Socialism attests to this danger. Another reason for the well-rounded diet of entertainment and education possible in German television is the fact that it is basically noncommercial. It is financed by a kind of Countrywide subscription system. Every TV set in the country must be registered for I flat monthly fee of a dollar 25. The stations get about 75 percent of this for operating expenses. Some income comes from advertising but no more than 20 minutes of advertisements a

day are allowed. These are ordinarily aired in blocks between 6:00 and 8:00 p.m. and thus do not interfere with or distract from the programs. There are two TV channels which can be seen all over the country. The first programme is made up of nine a sub stations from the various States located in Berlin cologne Hamburg Munich flung forward but Stuttgart Saab and blame and. Each station transmits regionally from 6:00 to 8:00 p.m. the prime time evening hours are a joint network broadcast. This is produced by each of the nine stations depending upon the number of listeners in its broadcast area. For example not Voyager 1 Phone.com Borg has about one fifth of all of the TV Westerners in the country. The station thus produces 20 percent of the network broadcast. The other main channel is the second German television located at mines. This is a single station which

transmits a programme of super regional interest by a UHF throughout the country. The two programs the first and the second combine efforts for a joint program for their fellow countrymen in East Germany. This is beamed into the eastern zone daily from 10:00 a.m. to 1:30 PM and is seen by an estimated 2 million East Germans. The entertainment side of West German television is much like that in America. In fact much of it comes from America. Such shows as bonanza 77 Sunset Strip and checkmate are seen weekly here with German dubbed over the English soundtracks. What comes as a surprise to the American viewer however is the treatment of serious programmes of cultural political and educational import. In a typical recent week serious drama by John Paul Satya Dostoevsky and blue no funk was aired on the first programme the first programme to

features a learn English three times weekly while the second programme counters with a learned French in Paris youth and children shows or shown weekday afternoons the interested adult can see such highlights as a last month's special report on Vietnam which included first a 45 minute film made in North Vietnam by a British reporter followed by another 45 minute documentary on the American buildup in South Vietnam produced by German film teams. Both the first and second programs use what is called a sandwich technique to encourage viewers to watch their serious programming. Thus a program of import is sandwiched between two light entertainment shows with the hope that people who normally wouldn't will sit through the Syria show while waiting for the next bit of entertainment. As one official in bio show informed Munich put it we regard entertainment shows as the locomotive for serious

educational broadcasting. There is one other outlet in German TV which is of gradually growing importance. The so-called Third Programme such programmes already exist in the homburg burnin Braman areas flying food and Munich Vestal which are one phone cologne is just now beginning one of its own. The impetus for these programmes which incidentally are independent from city to city came from the similarity of the first and second programmes. The Third Programme is comparable to educational television in America. It features serious informative programmes directed at population minorities. These population minorities are not necessarily the intellectual elite of the country as many people assume the Third Programme at Munich which is the oldest is starting its third year of a TV study programme next month with courses in titled Italian language ski instruction arithmetic

television techniques family legal problems our children today seeing and making visible the Etruscans life in the sea. Hiking and mountain climbing and first aid. That's the Third Programme shoot for various segments of the population. It is not simply highbrow broadcasting. For example the planned Third Programme for Vesta which will unfold co-own will include what are termed service broadcasts a special show of news and comments for shift workers will be aired daily at noon and a show for Augusta foreign workers every night at 7:45. This latter will be directed at the million and a quarter migrant workers in West Germany today. Every Monday there will be 10 minutes of news sports and music from Turkey in Turkish for the hundred twenty thousand Turks here. On Tuesday the same thing in Greek for the hundred sixty thousand Greeks. The Wednesday show will be for the

150000 Spaniards. And Thursday and Friday directed to the two hundred and fifty thousand Italian foreign workers. A novel feature of the Munich Third Programme is the teleco leg. This is a formal course of study over TV for those who have a vocational school training. It is designed to aid skilled workers with the equivalent of a technical college education. It should be clear then that the population much Artie's and minorities are well served by German television through a confusing combination of stations and programmes. The German TV viewer can choose daily from a well-rounded recipe of entertaining and educational television. That brings to an end this week's report from Germany. This is Crocker snow speaking from the studios of Radio Deutsch about Cologne West Germany.