The First Amendment; Anne Kirchheimer

The First Amendment and the Free People. A weekly examination of civil liberties in the media in 1970s produced by WGBH Radio Boston in cooperation with the Institute for Democratic Communication at Boston University. The host of the program is the institute's director Dr. Bernard Rubin. How are Hispanics treated in the press? With me today is Ann Kersheimet of the Boston Globe who is not of Hispanic background but who has been fascinated with Spanish culture and Hispanic affairs from her earliest days in high school and college. Ann Kersheimet did a lot of urban reporting for The Boston Globe over an eight year period, she's now in charge of the Living pages. She's also kept her work alive on Hispanic affairs. Last October November she was in Colombia South America on a fellowship in the Partners of the Americas Program in Journalism. Getting to know the press down there she's traveled extensively through Latin America and

in Spain. And although not Hispanic, has a fair-weather eye view of what is going on as well as a bad-weather eye view of what is going on. She's a woman for all seasons. Let me ask you this, Ann. Perhaps I should also say that Ann Kersheimer has been working with people at the Globe in Hispanic work. One of the problems at the Globe is it's difficult to get Hispanic people to cover Hispanic affairs or it appears difficult at least from the history of the Globe's employment situation would you say that's fair? Well I would say that it's hard to judge because the Globe really didn't have any Hispanics working there until very recently. We had we had some in Hispancs working there in sort of part time or temporary type of positions, but um recently, in fact last week, the Globe hired a Hispanic and another Hispanic is coming in August to

to be a general assignment reporter. Now there are more than 50000 Hispanics in the local area there are more than, or approximately, 19 million in the country. Both those who carry American citizenship and those who don't. Why is this such a problem for a great metropolitan newspaper, and the Globe is not exceptional in covering Hispanic affairs. No, No the Globe was covering Hispanic lot of newspapers with the size of the population in Boston, but um I would say because basically maybe it's a cynical point of view, being that I work in a newspaper, but um I would say that uh the Boston Globe like, like all other newspapers is a business and we we always forget that. And I think a lot of times the people who make decisions about coverage, you know, there's a lot of people competing for a little bit of space. And I think they look at um what they're going to cover according to who's going to read the paper. And the Hispanics, most of the- you know many of the Hispanics in the Boston area don't speak English

do not read The Boston Globe, and uh you know they feel like they could just sort of drop the coverage or not really cover that community because it's not beneficial to them. But this is a coast to coast phenomenon for example the Los Angeles Times has emphasized more of its suburban bureaus of late and de-emphasizes coverage of the people who live in the greater metropolitan area. That is exactly what is happening in Boston, the Globe has increased its coverage of the suburban or the suburbs in the outlying areas and to the detriment of coverage of the urban areas. And when you talk of the urban areas you're talking of coverage of the Hispanics. Although Hispanics live in other areas most most of the time they live in the cities that they might live in Worcester they might live in Lowell you know a few maybe one or two live in Clinton or one or two live in a little town you know outside you know between here and Worcester but but most of the people live in the cities where the jobs are. I'm particularly impressed, or at least I find it significant, that you have two

master's degrees and one is in applied anthropology and the other's in urban affairs. And I think this gives you some clues that other journalists would not have as to the life of Hispanics in metropolitan areas. What do Hispanics read? Those who don't speak English. Or what do those Hispanics who speak English rely upon in terms of news from the press. Well I would say that the professionals, of course like any other professionals, read the Globe read the Herald read what's out there what's available. I would say the the people who aren't professionals and maybe have.. they don't speak English that well they might rely on El Mundo newspaper or one of the other newspapers in Spanish. Now there are at least two in the Boston area, right? La Semana, and El Mundo. Right. How would you characterize each one of those? What is the purpose of each one of those? I think

it's aimed at the you know the Spanish speaking readership and of course they they both have their different editorial points of view but basic game is to you know to bring news to Hispanics who who wouldn't otherwise get it because they don't read or speak English. You know it's filling a void. Now there is another way to look at the problem and that is to use a newspaper to communicate in two languages in print it's very easy. And the Globe, The Boston Globe had a bilingual column, as a matter of fact, I understand you are among those people who initiated it. How long did it continue and how successful was that? Right. Well we started I started a bilingual column in 1971. At that time. It served a number of purposes - first of all the greater Boston community the Anglo community did not realize the extent of the problems of the Hispanics. They didn't even realize that they had a Hispanic population here. Now the population is about 50 over fifty thousand at that time in 1971 it's only 8 years ago but the population was probably thirty

thousand and it had the population... the big migration I say migration because most of the people came from Puerto Rico and you know Puerto Rico is a U.S. protectorate. But most of the migrants came around the early 70s. And the purpose of the column was to let the Greater Boston community, the Anglo community know that there was a Hispanic population here, know that they did have problems. At that time there was one one Hispanic teacher in the whole Boston system. There was one Hispanic policeman in you know out of 2800 cops. Um You know there were just minimal people who could speak Spanish who were bilingual who could deal with this population. And that column, I had guest, guest writers for the column people who were Hispanic or people who were working in the Hispanic community. And um it was to let people know about the problems just by you know Mrs. Rodriguez lives in housing and she needs a better apartment, she lives in slum housing she needs a better apartment type of

type of columns and the bilingual part of it was the sort of the part an English address was informational for the greater Boston community and the part in Spanish was informational for Hispanics. It gave radio stations or TV shows in Spanish, it told where you could get a free vaccination for your kids. Things like that. So it was sort of very beneficial at that time to- to let the people know that there was a Hispanic population here and that they had a lot of problems. And um basically they m- a lot of them still have the same problems they had then, although we have more uh people you know who are bilingual in government agencies or the police department or-- and the schools have a bilingual education program but um now people don't seem to be as concerned I think it's just sort of the the way things are in the late 70s as compared to how things were in the early 70s. So the column disappeared after eight years or so?

No no I wrote it for about a year, year and a half, and then I felt like a Hispanic... I became an urban reporter and I was getting tied up with that, and I felt like they should have a Hispanic writing the column. So we had a young man, Carlos ?Quentiera? who was a Colombian writing the column for about a year and then he had to go go back to Columbia. Then we had a Puerto Rican woman writing it for a little while and then she went back to Puerto Rico and then it sort of just died. So it was about two and a half three years then,and it died. Mhmm. The eight and a half years I was referring to was the spirit- period of time that you were working at the globe as an urban reporter. Mhmmm. And then you shifted over to to the so-called living pages. Well it wasn't really shifted, I want to mention that you said I was in charge of the living pages when you introduced me and I'm not in charge. It was a promotion, an undue promotion? Right, right, that would be great. You're working at the living pages? Right, I'm a reporter in the living pages, but um it was sort of, I had been doing urban reporting for a long time. I saw the interest in

the urban reporting sort of going down the tube and I felt like I was a kamikaze pilot, you know, remaining an urban reporter although there was no interest and emphasis on it at the paper, and sort of as a self-preservation move I would say I moved to the um living pages. Also I wanted to try to get some experience writing features and you know longer articles and I- you know I think it's good to have a change after quite a few years. Before I ask you what you do at the living pages in specifics. Tell me about some of your stories when you were covering the Spanish community, or the Hispanic community, more properly. Some of the stories? Some of the stories that you did. Well, I um I explain, I did you know basically problems people were having and things like that and I guess um uh when I was writing features about Hispanics I was doing um or doing urban reporting on Hispanics. It was basically, you know, problems people were having in housing,

it were overall type of stories and the Hispanic population in Massachusetts and and how how the Hispanic population is is growing very rapidly in the United States, in fact they figure by about 1985, 1990 they will be the largest minority group in the United States. I would write overall type of pictures. I went to Puerto Rico once to do a reverse migration story. I know I didn't just cover the Puerto Rican community, I guess, I went to Guatemala after an earthquake. Anything to do with Spanish speaking I think I got involved and did some features on Cubans, the Cubans in Massachusetts. I tried to cover the arts also I did, I went to and did reviews on Hispanic-- plays in Spanish, movies in Spanish. I just sort of dabbled

in any area that I could that related to Spanish speaking people. As an aside you referred to Puerto Rico a little while ago as an American protectorate. I think you're looking for the word Commonwealth, is there a so-called Freudian slip there? Do you consider Puerto Rico to be an American protec.... No I do know that-- I didn't know exactly. It's a commonwealth, but I thought it was called a protectorate. Well, it may maybe in fact a protectorate. I think that's what the State Department... What is your opinion about the kinds of stories that best serve a Hispanic community that is not being well- served by the metropolitan press in any area? If you have your choice would you say that the good feature story probably does more good than news stories that are not adequate in terms of number? When you highlight a family or highlight a situation or highlight a crisis a good feature story like that in the absence of general coverage? Well that helps a particular family

or a particular housing project. It doesn't alert the community. You mean the Greater Boston community? Yes or any greater metropolitan community, does it tend to trigger them to thoughtfulness about about that minority or this minority, or is it just something that piques their interest for a minute and then they move on to the next page? I have a feeling that's what happens. It's hard to tell what, how you get the most mileage out of the story. You know it depends really on the story, or really on the problem. Sometimes these overall features on Hispanics having problems, it seems that whenever I write these stories I get negative feedback, I think that's just the people who respond. I am very used to getting a lot of hate mail and a lot of derogatory type of messages for Spanish speaking people. I think there's just a lot of people out there who are very bigoted or just don't like Hispanics and they they scribble their letters to me saying, you know, "why cover

these people these--" you know. And do you get mail as well from the Hispanics? No, the Hispanics do not respond, once in a while you know I'll get a phone call from maybe a professional person or somebody I know from the community or or see somebody and they'll say "good story" but generally no mail comes in. That's another problem, because the the Globe and all newspapers sort of respond to letters or feedback they get from people and if a group of people you know, don't respond at all that's a problem. The Hispanic community, its nice to use a word like Hispanic, it covers everybody. But it is such a diverse community, people coming from areas thousands and thousands of miles away from one another with all sorts of different heritages. Right. How do you keep track? Again, we have agreed that most metropolitan newspapers don't have adequate coverage of the Hispanic minority. Some do, is there any newspaper that does a good job? I'm sure the Miami Herald because the Miami Herald has a section in Spanish. The

I don't know what it's called, the Latin Herald it's totally in Spanish with Spanish Spanish speaking Editor. All the staff are bilingual and the whole newspaper's in Spanish. And that was because of the tremendous influx of Cubans primarily? Right. I'm sure... when I started my bilingual column I got letters from all over the country from different people and in different newspapers saying that this was sort of a new phenomena, you know, how did you do it? People were interested but they didn't seem to know what to do or how to go about starting a column which is it's a pretty easy type of task. I think probably in the southwest and in places like that where you have a large Hispanic population you're going to get more you know media coverage. [Host] Now you have Spanish language ability, you have urban affairs and applied anthropological knowledge. You have the professional experience of a reporter.

Are you able to keep track, with all of these things in your background, of the various components in the Hispanic community? For example are you able to keep track of Chicanos and Cubanos and the Spaniards and.... You mean on a local level or..? On the local level or on a national-- on any level that you choose to answer, are you able to keep track? [Guest] No, definitely not it's very hard like when I was covering the Hispanic community I would focus on Boston but I couldn't keep track of what was going on in Springfield, in Lowell, and Worcester I mean everybody has their own issues and their own problems. And just to keep up with what was going on in Boston was was difficult. And then when you talk, when I talk about this covering the Hispanic population community here I'm basically referring to Puerto Ricans. I mean the Cubans and people from Central America and people from Colombia or Mexico you know they all have their different their different things. I was, just sort of covering, you know, overall type of issues, covering

housing, covering bilingual education, education problems, discrimination and you know you do the best you can but you really you can't get a handle on everything. There are more than 50,000 Hispanics in the area. There are at least five to six to seven thousand Asian-Americans resident in the immediate area. There are many tens of thousands of black people living in the community. At what point does a newspaper recognize its obligation to cover a community? Do you have to have the majority of the population? Do you have to be in that clump before you are recognized? Does a large metropolitan newspaper regardless of its name, in America now, tend to be the voice of the majority without much-- too much business concern as you said for any minority? [Guest} I, sadly to say I think that's true, I read an article I think by Richard Reeves a column he wrote in Esquire magazine not long ago, where he talked about a case in

point with regard to the Los Angeles Times and how a black woman was killed by policemen for some sort of crazy reason or some you know, just it was definitely some kind of problem there and it should have been looked into by the newspaper. And the, what's the name of the the opposing paper in Los Angeles, the Herald Examiner? That's, I think that's what it's called. Well anyway they they did some coverage of this this case. And when somebody asked the editor or the publisher of the Los Angeles Time why they had totally ignored the case, they said "well you know we don't have the readers, we have, you know it doesn't really matter that these people don't read the paper why should we bother?" And it's sort of that attitude it's sort of you know we're running a business and you know if the suburbanites are the people who are going to read and buy the paper then we'll address the the the stories to them. Or cover you know

we'll cover the Wellesley town meeting before we cover you know a big problem in Mission Mission Hill. I was lecturing a few weeks ago at a Western University I won't name the university. But in the Rocky Mountain area and they had assembled a group of recent graduates of universities and colleges from the western area I guess from Topeka, Kansas on west to the coast. And these people were all chosen because they had been editors of college newspapers and were people thought to be able to rise in the newspaper business or on radio and television. And they were a very fine group of young men and women, but I found to my surprise that when I spoke to them about the third world, overseas, or the Third World at home or about minorities this was not a predominant interest as a matter of fact, the the amount of ignorance displayed was phenomenal about key cases and issues about situations. The amount of

interest was tremendously high, but it was not met by any knowledge. This also seems to be a pattern in the United States. Yeah the United States completely looks down on Latin America and coverage of Latin America. They think that if you are you know don't cover Europe, well now the third world is getting a little more coverage with things going on in Africa and also the Middle East with the oil situation now. But Latin America is just looked upon as some banana republics that don't merit any kind of coverage. And Nicaragua is getting something now because of you know the threat. You know I saw today that the US was thinking they might you know they're not, they're considering sending troops and maybe you know if it's a threat then of course it's get some coverage but but usually they just look upon it as something that's not worth covering. I should point out for those listeners who will hear the story on this program in the future that they will know how the Nicaraguan crisis came

out, but here at the end of June in 1979, we don't. Let me ask you to push that point a little bit, we need oil from Mexico but that's really not as important as your earlier suggestion that we ought to be more interested in Latin America. You know it's amazing but if you read in in Spanish but I also see that there's some books or literature or novels that comes out in English translations but I, me personally, I think the Latin American literature, Latin American art, even music, you know it's equal with the United States, or in in my opinion, it's better in some respects it's more creative, they seem to have a lot of things coming out that you know, American artists, American musicians. The musicians are catching on to this. Being cut off from Cuba for the past 20 years has really put a damper, put clamps on the type of music, the type of percussions, type of rhythm that

that we used to get this type of back and forth from Cuba all the time and talk to some of the great jazz people. You know, John Coltrane or Dizzy Gillespie, these people picked up totally from Latin musicians, you know some of their-- the things that they play now. Cubans are proving that they are very good in even the classical ballet, extraordinarily good. Just to think that because they're Latin Americans that you know, it's inferior. I don't know where this comes from, I don't know where this attitude develops, but I get that even you know covering Hispanics. Well maybe she's....-- South America, Central America really don't exist though for most people in the Continental United States. They are somewhere south of where the airlines today take them normally. They think Chiquita Banana and that about it. Chiquita banana. Now you were in Colombia, South America very recently studying the newspapers down there. What was your impression? Sort of off the cuff impression of the kind of press that you ran into down there? Well, they were very...

the press is sort of censored I would say. They don't really have a lot of investigative type of pieces. A lot of it is very old school, stuff that we were doing a long time ago like the social covering like the um, ...(?) ites they're still involved in that kind of thing I was very impressed I was not that much impressed with the newspapers in the city I was was in, but I was very impressed with the journalists, the students studying journalism in the colleges down there and they put out a monthly newspaper and then you know they were very good at investigation investigative type of pieces and looking into human conditions. Those kind of articles and I think you know in the future they're very impressed with you know investigation of Watergate and these kind of things and they look forward to for getting... You're suggesting that they can't carry this into the major newspapers.

I think they will. But the city I was in was called Medellin, Colombia, city of two million people and they have a very old school type of newspaper and they were starting, another group was starting a new newspaper. I was down there in November and they were starting it up in March but they had ideas to do some different kind of things and not just go along with the party line so to speak. So I think there is movement and the younger people want to get into that kind of thing. To get back to the provincialism that is inferred in almost everything that we have discussed, we are not provincial about Latin America but we are provincial about our Canadian neighbors. The troubles in Quebec, the troubles that affect the Eskimo or Aleuts in our own country, even, in Alaska. The troubles that affect the Native American in various states. We are extremely provincial. The middle class newspaper reader and the middle class newspaper proprietor seem to share this provinciality. Can anything break it?

Or are we going to just go on and on like this ignoring vast segments of our population? Well I think that yeah there are things to break and I think it's maybe the reporters who have traveled or who have other interests coming in and working in a newspaper. I think the Globe was lucky when when I came to the Globe because I don't think they would have gone out and looked for somebody who spoke Spanish but since I was there--. [Host] Just a happy accident? [Guest] There was a happy accident and I started covering Hispanics and I think they were glad for that but they wouldn't have made a big effort to go find somebody to do it at that time. But I think, you know, I always thought that the Peace Corps when it started out and in the '60s was more beneficial to the United States than it was to maybe you know, the countries that the volunteers went to, I felt like people who came back at least in the beginning of the Peace Corps before it was like a draft-dodger type of situation. People who came back, they came back, they've been living in another country for two years and they came

back with extensive knowledge of a different culture, of how to live in different culture, of you know maybe our problems aren't as great as some of the other problems they've seen. And they came back and they could share this knowledge in you know, as a journalist or working for the government or in business with with other people and I think it's just being very parochial. The United States, people in the United States feeling you know, "We're on top, why should we learn to speak another language? Everybody should learn to speak English." I mean it's just a bad attitude and maybe it's because we've been a you know a power base for so long but I think you know as things are going to change in the gas crisis and things like that will show us that we're, we are dependent on people in different countries. We are dependent on learning another language and being able to understand a different culture and I think that's, you know. Is there any way to get the proprietors to further innovations, to show initiatives to spring forth with a half a page for the Asians and and a half a page for the Latin Americans

at least once a week at the start and then three times a week so that some insightful news can be brought to those communities or taken from those communities? Or is this sort of a hopeless cause? Am I living in a dream world that proprietors may say we ought to go after the minority stories? I don't know. There are some people with some, you know I think that the Taylors have good... Those are the publishers of the Globe. Right, I think they have good hearts, and good ideas but they also are businessmen and they're, you know, running this business, I think if more people from the Hispanic community came in and, you know, said "hey whats happening to our coverage?" I think thats how the blacks got so far in in terms of you know, being able to be heard. Ok, thank you very much Anne Kirchheimer, its been delightful having you on the program, for this edition. Bernard Rubin. [Musical score] The First Amendment and a Free People, a weekly

examination of civil liberties in the media in the 1970's. The program is produced in cooperation with the Institute for Democratic Communication at Boston University, by WGBH radio Boston, which is solely responsible for its content. (music) This is the station program exchange. [silence]