Vietnam War Report; Voyage To North Vietnam: Quakers

A Vietnam War Report and a half hour program I heard every week at this time about six weeks ago on March 22nd a small band of American Quaker pacifists departed Hong Kong harbor in a 50 foot catch the phoenix of Hiroshima for Haiphong in North Vietnam. The Phoenix was laden with medical supplies for the civilian casualties of American bombing in that country. Now the first of two special reports about this voyage to North Vietnam. The group made the trip as a token gesture of humanitarian and moral aid for the suffering peoples of North Vietnam. Quakers have consistently provided medical aid for civilians in South Vietnam as well. The voyage of course was not without risks. Would the American Seventh Fleet permit passage. What about the violation of U.S. State Department regulations forbidding travel to North Vietnam. And with the North Vietnamese receive them and accept their aid the round trip to Haiphong and back took two and a half weeks. We know now that the Quakers

accomplished their mission. They were not interjected by the Seventh Fleet. They were received in Haiphong and offloaded their medical supplies. They spent eight days in North Vietnam Hanoi Haiphong food Lee and they returned without incident to Hong Kong in the Phoenix. The facts are one thing the human motivation in undertaking the voyage and the experience and impressions gained from it are another. Freelance journalist Patricia Penn made extensive interviews with the crew of the Phoenix and Hong Kong both before their departure and upon their return. This program is made up of these interviews with the emphasis of course on the insights into North Vietnam. Of the six American Quakers sailing the yacht the youngest was Bobby Eaton of Philadelphia 23 years old bearded a vegetarian and a man who has informed his draft board of his refusal to serve in the American armed forces in this or any other war. Six weeks ago on the

day the Phoenix was departing for Haiphong Pat Penn first talked with the lies about his last stage of the journey. Well right now in terms of the next two hours the words are getting this getting the anchor up and getting clear of the port. And. The sort of worries that you always go through when you undertake a trip such as this. And of course you know it's complicated by the fact that the political nature. Of the trip makes a lot of imponderables in terms of the Seventh Fleet and what they'll do to us any possible accidents in terms of bombing. So. I would think it's quite likely that the Americans will fall over backwards not to harm them in any way. Do you share this feeling. Well I think that it's unwise to speculate too much on what's going to happen because you can just run around a lot of circles. I would assume that the Americans don't wish to bomb us or to prevent this message from getting through the people of North Vietnam I certainly hope they don't. What about the distribution of the supplies

when you get to the other end. We've offered in our letter to the man of several months ago. That some of the crew are willing to stay in and in North Vietnam and help administer the aid that we bring and also help in any way we can working in the hospitals with the with the victims of the bombings. Now once again we're just not sure how things will develop once we get there. You've had no communication at all from President Havel or from any North Vietnamese government contact any official body other than the North Vietnamese Red Cross right there that's been indirect through bogyman because they mention in their letter the Red Cross that is that they had consulted with the G-men and he was greatly concerned. About our personal safety. On the trip but I want to emphasize that our our main concern is getting the medical supplies there and and how long we stay or under what conditions and so on is really very secondary. We want to get the medicines to the people there who have no cares about the medicines being perhaps you know Stephanie's military.

Well I certainly have no fear if the medicine is used for anybody I have no fear and I don't you know whether he's a soldier or a civilian. And you never know. The U.S. government can't guarantee the things that they offload from U.S. ships won't end up in Viet Cong or North Vietnamese hands and it would be presumptuous on our part to assume that we know exactly where our medicines are going but they're medicines and they're helping people. And as a pacifist even I can say that as long as they're helping people even a soldier I'd want them to get through that conversation was recorded on March 22nd 19 days later on April 10th the phoenix of Hiroshima returned to Hong Kong after the round trip to North Vietnam. Full of idealism when you look you know in a way to this have you in a way disillusioned. Well I suppose that a great deal more somber and sober now after having witnessed what America is doing over in North Vietnam and also witnessing the very grim determination of the North Vietnamese

to resist what they call the American aggression on a very personal level the thing that that really came through to me was the culture of these people an incredibly gentle simple people who are utterly determined to resist the aggression that they see in their skies every day determined if necessary to see their great cities bombed determined if necessary to once again enter into a second resistance as they did against the French and go back to the jungles. I think this is a tragic thing for such a small relatively poor nation that merely wants to try and develop itself but about things like material things shorter. When you had transport in Cosmos No it's not going to put the cities for transport through to what clothing medical supplies where these things lacking.

It's it's hard to make a definitive statement on that. I walked a great deal around to Noyon intended by God's very came across very many market places where produce was being so I noticed that the produce was being sold and people were having marks put in ration books. But there was a great deal of the produce and people seem to be going away with a great deal of it. The car is there very few cars in the streets of annoy its bicycles mostly everybody seems to have a bicycle on the other hand we had cars of course because we are official guests and it's very hard very hard to tell what was in short supply. Was anything said about to you about peace talks and the possibility of peace talks. The major emphasis. This can genuinely driven home to this was the determination of the Vietnamese to resist aggression. The question of peace talks I think they felt was secondary to this basic determination that

peace talks would come in their own time. When the US had stopped the bombing on this day we're going to be no negotiations that much was clear that when there was unilateral aggression going on they weren't going to negotiate whether or not that should happen. Their position was clear it should and must stop and then they would be willing to talk about what they're willing to negotiate about the technicalities about the withdrawal about the end of the bombing about future relations between our countries and you know that's a very very live option with them because I think there's a genuine feeling of concern for what they consider the real American values not the values that are being displayed by this war of aggression as they call it. So I think they're willing to negotiate but not if negotiation means somehow going to a table to decide whether or not it's right for you the US to bomb their city their cities and villages unilaterally. Do you as a result of having been to North Vietnam perhaps have any misgivings. About that kind of society. And about communist society and

you know what it might hold for these people if. The Houthi becomes communist. But you have some sort of misgivings about a totalitarian society. Well the first question I think is how to tell a Tarion. And I came away from my visit without a clear picture on that question. I was tremendously impressed. Given my own condition as an American with the amount of freedom that did exist. I was impressed by the fact that anybody can tune in on their transistor radio ready. Voice of America on the far east network and so on. You know this to be true. Yes how do you know it to be true. Well first of all in the department stores radios are are free are freely sold and so on shortwave radios yes especially the Japanese brands and that the at the hotel. There was a radio present there and I tuned in Voice of America. It wasn't being jammed at all. I asked an interpreter about this and he said we want

the people who are interested to know what the American position is in their own words because we think quite frankly that's probably more powerful than a half hour speech by one of our officials. And once again increasing the Vietnamese resolve to resist this aggression. You said to me the other day before you went to my thong that you couldn't envisage any war in which you would fight. If your country. Having the Tamils here. Do you. Condone. The North Vietnamese fighting for the violence. And dodging and sending manned sounds of the power. Well this of course is a real dilemma because as a pacifist I'm not at peace at any price peace by itself can be slavery. Peace has to go along with justice and freedom and as independent as the Vietnamese put it independence that these values also are important and the Vietnamese position continually was of course the only

way we can achieve freedom and justice and independence from the Americans is through the use of the military right now and that we hope for the day when this will not be necessary. Personally I made it very clear to them that. While I was willing to undergo undergo risk and hardship to bring aid to the suffering people of North Vietnam I would not be willing to serve in their army. That while I am willing in the United States to risk five years 10 years in jail in opposition to this war I would not be willing to serve in their army. And when you call this an idealistic position. I think it's the only realistic one really. I think it's hopelessly idealistic to think that you can count on a charging horse and go vindicate wrong by killing people. Have you considered whether you'll be allowed to an art of course is another matter but have you considered going to South Vietnam to see what is happening to the villages. Not only as a result of American action but as a result of the Kong action.

Most definitely. This is nothing to do with this particular project but members of a Quaker action group are now negotiating with the NLF to enter into NLF areas. There's a great deal of concern that if we go down and observe what's going on down there and both the US and the last areas when you were approaching Haiphong. Did you have any contact with the American fleet or with American air force. Very briefly yes. At no time did we ever establish visual contact with naval vessels. Two days out from high falling on the other hand we were both raised by a helicopter a jet plane a four engine prop plane. Actually the prop plane Air Force plane which we think was land based from South Vietnam. These planes buzzed us came in very close and simulated strafing runs the jet plane particularly and took pictures of us and then left us. I was the only contact with

yes members of the helicopter crew who came down close enough to wave at us to get to the cameraman. After they had taken all their pictures and sort of performed their jobs two of them waved at us. Bobby Eaton of Philadelphia was one of the eight people aboard the Phoenix. Two of these were witnesses more than participants. American filmmakers chosen from close to 100 applicants freelance photographer Ivan master of Concord Massachusetts a Unitarian by faith was the only real non Quaker aboard. Since his return to this country several weeks ago Massa has had a press conference in Boston. But in Hong Kong on the very day of arrival and aboard the Phoenix itself his impressions were fresher. Why. Well first of all we arrived quite early in the morning to a very foggy. You know the invisible landscape and then after some hours managed to find our way out of this mist into that little area called I my boy

won and this is where you anchor and wait for the pilot boat. At this point we were anchored between two Russian ships and a Polish large cargo ships and waited perhaps half an hour under which the pilot came over and obviously waiting to take us on into Haiphong. He had been waiting for two days by the way watching with binoculars he explained because they were expecting us. He went on in the Haiphong which took perhaps two hours from this point of view. And we know it was dark I suppose 11 o'clock at night but time we got to the docks and Monarch of Shorty there was a huge explosion sound of sirens which explain was an alert and the sky was just filled with flying the most fantastic aerial anti-aircraft defense that I've seen and I've seen of some before in second world war and we saw also half a dozen SAMs surface to air missiles taking off one of which exploded in midair and we hold this down an American plane.

This was our rival and I falling in. Perhaps I'll go two hours at that after this point between midnight and one o'clock. We finally went off at the dark being that Hermie more and so forth and were met by a dozen. Maidens beautiful gals carrying flowers bouquets for each of us and a welcoming committee which to me was quite fantastic that within a couple of hours of our city being bombed to welcome people from that country with smiles and genuine goodwill I mean they seemed to know the difference between people who come with bombs and people come with medicine as we did and they treat them accordingly. We said we had no flak to meet us you know so this was quite moving for us. What about what did you actually see of the bombings. You know not only the actual bombardment we saw it was an iPhone which was the site of the photo of anti aircraft like at night and we didn't we didn't stay in Haiphong and we did not see the damage. And this you know

I think my phone is very restricted now for letting you know they're very worried about getting a much bigger bombardment by phone and and we didn't pursue this matter in fact they you know we said we did want to see bombed alleges and hospitals and schools or off color and they said they would take us to Hanoi to do this which they did 14 or I think it probably isn't possible to look at that much around Haiphong enough time following the next day for an eye on both at night this is I know you know the route is it's traveled by night only. How do you why do you think the reason for traveling by night was it so said you shouldn't see certain things or was it purely thought on that day that we thought of that but that seems like it seems as though the reason really is that they they have pontoon bridge and some of which are dismembered at night and taken apart and hidden during the day. So in fact I was a reconnaissance photographs show no bridges there at all when in fact the roads are quite busy and I just traffic in all directions all night long. They travel by night. I was wondering you know you know they've they've they've managed to adapt to aerial bombardment they know they can they can travel under cover of night and they're quite busy all

night long. What about the evidence of Chinese or Russian why aid of any kind not a military or civilian or civil. Get on the road to Hanoi we saw dozens and dozens of trucks of the military on the horn type I can only describe half tracks and some just big trucks laden with goods which were Army were khaki colored Russian trucks and quite a few Russian Jeeps. And some things with Chinese you know you know inscriptions on big crates and so forth which were perhaps more good you know was strewn along the road under trees and under bushes and so forth. Great piles I mean we saw very few Chinese. We saw most Chinese soldiers and we saw it. I think one Russian soldier in the hotel seemed to be an officer or something but no Russian troops or signs of any military personnel there in the city certainly when I. Did the did the North Vietnamese remark a toll on their relationship with the Russians and the

Chinese. Not really they said that they are good neighbors they are socialist countries who will be you know working together toward peace and so forth but that they are they the enemies are a sovereign state and they are running their own show and will continue that way they said to us that when we ask how much influence the Chinese had over decisions they make and they said the Chinese are neighbors we've had good years and bad year to China. Over the past few centuries. But at this point we are both socialist countries we are neighbors and we work together in many ways because we are ruining our country. We make our own decisions and we're not beholden to any master of Concord Massachusetts speaking aboard the Phoenix and Hong Kong harbor the only woman who took part in the expedition was Mrs. Betty Boardman a veteran peace worker. She is the wife of a professor at the University of Wisconsin and the mother of six. The lively lady was one of the three aboard who volunteered to stay in North Vietnam to work in the hospitals.

On the day of departure Betty Boardman stated the objectives of the journey quite explicitly for the first is to identify with our suffering brothers the Vietnamese people the people the second is to take humanitarian relief to them to help those who are innocent Americans which our taxes pay for. We are making a protest against the actions of the United States government in waging war against the poor and who has not attacked us. How do you know what to how you stand with the American government exerted any sort of pressure on you. Well they've exerted no pressure on us physically. They have closed two of our bank accounts in Philadelphia frozen the assets

which is a sort of a deterrent. They also have indicated that we cannot have validation for our passports. What about the question of being bombed by the Americans. This presumably is the fear that the North Vietnamese have. Has anything been said to you by the Americans about this. Yes our committee and in Philadelphia asked the Pentagon what they what they were going to do about this and the Pentagon said they had no plans to bomb us. I think that I think would be highly embarrassing for the American government to bomb us even by mistake maybe even especially by mistake. What has been the reaction of Americans in America to you knowing that you were going. Did you find people were resentful that you were going on this mission. Yes I found some people were very resentful one of my oldest and best friends was very upset about it. She prays that I will change my mind and not go and I want to steady the hand of

those who would hurt sons of our friends. That is another woman called me when she first heard about it and said that she and 18 other mothers of American soldiers were going to come to my press conference with guns. Well I didn't but this and this indicates the depth of feeling there is on this. But then I had many more calls from people who thought it was a great thing that that we were helping to absolve some of their guilt. And thank God somebody was doing something instead of just standing up and standing in groups around the Washington Monument. Nineteen days later when Pat Penn interviewed Betty Boardman once again in Hong Kong the journey was complete the mission accomplished. But how did you find the morale of the Vietnamese people you came in contact with. Well I it seemed to me that they were happier in spite of their

troubles than most Americans are because they were united behind one common goal. They were all working for the same thing of freeing their country of an aggressor. And while while there was undoubtedly great unhappiness over the war itself they had a single mindedness of purpose that it was I think a very healthy thing. What about the hospitals and schools and civilian places that you saw either working or the only school we saw was a nursery school in a hamlet and this was a rebuilt school had a about 40 little kids in it and very small children and right down the middle of the edge of the room was a five foot trench cement concrete trench which lead to tranche outdoors which led to shelters to shelters and the whole village was honeycombed or are interlaced with these these trenches but I was quite impressed by the fact that a trench existed right inside the school building a school room so I could just drop the children in at

the first sign of any trouble. Children are not a house anymore and in brick buildings they're not school and brick buildings those buildings have all been abandoned. Some very good buildings because they're just too good targets. You're all set to smaller homes and families and doubled up and freed a home for a school that sort of thing. What about the all over effect of the bombing you. I get the impression that you think the civilians were the target or that inadvertently civilians have become the worst hit. Oh I was willing to accept our government's version that it was inadvertent until I got there and we we saw that a great many fragmentation bombs. We saw. CB use which is a CIC B.O. is a is a canister bomb unit. It's a it's a shell which holds about 300 baseball sized

bombs which are exploded in the air and these things twirl and as they reach a certain velocity Well the minute they're stopped from twirling the device explodes and each bomb is composed of hundreds and hundreds of LBB shot type things you can see them embedded in the casing of it and they just fly all the pieces and they are definitely not intended for bridges or highways or animal factories these are anti people bombing So how do you know what form did you see these problems. We saw them in the village where they had them dropped and we saw the canisters that they came from which it had been and which had exploded and all these things. This is apparently a dud. Has there anything to indicate and there was no possible doubt that it was an American Oh no possible doubt with we wrote down the the registry numbers only the serial numbers and we photographed the we know it was made in Pennsylvania. Why are

they all legends around it. Told how to how to which end was up and how to set it on the plane. The scale of casualties them to it was it was a hospital to be crowded with people who obviously were in the news. No I wouldn't say so I would say that the casualties are not massive that they rather we saw the we saw some dramatic ones and we saw some more in Haiphong but I don't I don't get the feeling that there are great huge numbers of people that are being hurt every day. But you did see a number of villages beside the roads which were very badly damaged just so you know and I mean could it possibly have been anything other than an American bomb damage. I don't think it could have been. We were we were taken to only I think four sites one in the city and three outside the city on the Pearl Well two of them were on the periphery fairly close I would say on the outskirts of town and

they but they were agricultural cooperatives one raised the silkworms and the other raised rice. Then the third one was foully which is a major city on a bridge near a bridge and a railroad and a highway which of course is why it was bombed I suppose but if they'd just been aiming for those for the bridge which was about a mile away they sure missed they completely. They came back nine times in the course of 12 days. And completely demolished a tallit town is 80 percent gone. And it just were no roofs anywhere there was no no windows no nothing just a few walls standing in some places the places there were. Completely demolished that was the 70s in the village of seventy six hundred hours. Why am I there just would be no point in anybody faking that sort of thing and then another point is it as we were driving along. There are many places where we could see bomb craters and see damage hamlets that were demolished or that their interpreters never say anything about.

They were not pointed out to us there is no point made of it. It's so so difficult to go into a country like that where your. I mean even you realize you're not allowed complete freedom that everybody is talking some sort of line that they have and they have a propaganda mind to put over to you. You must have had some reservations about things that you would tow. You. You're not a gullible completely gullible lot are you. What do you feel about this barrier of perhaps not being always told the truth so not being able to being sure you are getting it. Well I have the feeling these villages have been visited many times. They were there they were there was the prime example. Right Exhibit A I mean as we were told about a grandmother whose house was demolished and she had not she had lived with other people now and she had four grandchildren to take care of as her parents were killed. Her house was all gone. So when we want passed her place she was there with another a lady friend of hers.

We were picking up bricks and straightening it out and it looked a little fake to me or to see the chief. If you don't get charged by the American government when you get. Perhaps a couple city that you know you want out of descriptive to do it you do have a sense of anti-climax know perhaps Well we're very tired and we're anxious to get home and that sort of thing. But I do feel that a lot of people than made aware of the war as an act against people and I think that maybe they weren't thinking of it that way before. Betty Borden the only woman among the small band of Quaker pacifists who recently transported medical supplies to North Vietnam for the civilians of that country. On this program you have heard three of the group who made the potentially hazardous certainly controversial voyage Patricia pan talked with others in Hong Kong on the day of their departure and return one of these. Earl Reynolds

is the skipper of the peace yacht Phoenix. He sailed under a strict waters at bikini in 1058 in protest to our nuclear testing there to hear the impressions of Captain Reynolds and others. Listen again next week at this time for the second and final part of this special program voyage to North Vietnam. The broadcast as part of the weekly Vietnam War report. This is Crocker snow speaking.