Byline; South Vietnam

Mr Benko Veatch before we discussed the Vietnamese War. I'd like to ask you what is it like to be in a id representative in Vietnam and what can you really do since it's basically a military problem. Primarily I'll take exception to your basically military problem it's basically a civilian problem with the military buying this time to find an effective solution. However to answer your question it's not very much China like any other field type job where you live and reasonably decent quarters. We have good food. We normally eat with the military. As a matter of fact we work in an office theoretically eight to five very often were taken out of the office on short chopper Kreps and that's when the life becomes somewhat different and one would expect to run around here. What province are you in and I know it's a southern province and I'm an ANS when which is the southernmost province in Vietnam and is it

basically Viet Cong controlled or American. There is as yet Lebanese control it is historically the seat of the Viet Minh and something like 10 or 12 years ago if you drove down to NS when there would be a little man in a khaki uniform a red star on his cap who would tell you he was got men customs and you would have to show your papers and you'd get a red star stamp on it. Then he would let you go if you paid the tax for what you had in the car. Would he still let you go. You in America now days if I run into one of these people I'd back up the scout that I was driving and execute a well known maneuver and call getting out of there. No he wouldn't let me go. Perhaps you could tell us a little bit about your advisory capacity to the provincial chief and who is the provincial chief in this case the provincial chief is Saigon appointed. Military officer who wears two hats. He is responsible to Saigon for both the economics and the security of the province. He is a lieutenant colonel normally

and I think with one exception all of the province chiefs are military people because the military is the most vital action for them. Apparently the most vital action that's going on in the countryside now. We are an advisory effort and we share this effort with the United States military who are advisers on the conduct of the war and military operations. So there are three of us that basically form the peak of the province structure. Vietnamese province chief is American civilian advisors of which and when is myself and the military advisers routine commander normal United States major lieutenant colonel and this is very often called the three man team. And most of the provincial business that deals with pacification or with

programs which are sponsored assisted or. Monitored by the Americans passes through this three man arrangement one way or the other. You told me before the program that South Vietnam has basically only 6 percent of the territory and 25 percent of the people this was and not specific statistics but this is in my province that's true. We control the series or the towns and some regions along the highway that runs out of it and the canal that runs out of it. Now if this is the case the province chief who really isn't the head of the whole province but rather of the pro se mammy's government would be appointed by the Premier of South Vietnam. This is the way it was then direct line of command. I don't think the premier reaches out and takes this particular lieutenant colonel take over a province. That

action of the corps which is a sub military subdivision of the country. Now is this province chief generally from this area. Most often he isn't in my case I'm extremely lucky I have a native son. What kind of people do you deal with in your everyday work. Well I deal with the province chief. I deal with some of the Vietnamese military. I deal with some of the American Vietnamese military and then we go down to village chiefs chiefs and individual villagers. I deal with almost anybody that happens to come around the office or whom I happen to go out and see. Now a idea as I understand it is generally interested in problems of economic development health education and things like this right now. Perhaps you could tell us exactly how you work in these areas I know also you're dealing with refugees.

Yes. Very few refugees relatively speaking in my province I think there are something like 700000 and Vietnam itself mostly up north. We have a figure of thirty five hundred to 4000. So all of these people are more or less housed by relatives and town. Why do you think that there are so few refugees in your province. We haven't developed into a very strong military operation stage yet. The Vietcong rather than standing and allowing themselves to be committed are pulling ahead and run game. What's what is your definition of committed when the unit attacked were attacking. Hope stands and holds its territory until the battle has an obvious outcome. With us it's different. Let's say they will catch one of our units going through the patties. They'll pull a 10 minute ambush on him take him under crossfire. Kill as many soldiers as they can kill the crossfire. Get out of there and five minutes

later I suppose they're farmers farming the field they're not to be found the soldiers converse. If you find one of their. Sepi command points and draw up what we call an eagle which is a heli more assault on him. They will not stand their ground. They will disappear into the rice and the mangrove can now and you will find that after of maybe an hour's fighting there's nobody there. And is this typical of the fighting all over Vietnam. From what I can read in the newspapers my viewpoint of course is far south and communications aren't quite as good as they are from Vietnam and the United States. No it isn't. There is an awful lot of hard fought action up around two core between what. I would say were and that is North Vietnamese units and our own men American units.

Now you've been in this area for about 11 months right. Perhaps you could tell us over the 11 months what kinds of things you've been working on and is there progress or is it all always eaten up by the war. No it isn't eaten up by the war and I discovered with tongue in cheek when I came back here that I've been very busy building up a popular base. I didn't know it when I was trying to do is to take the group of people that we held when I arrived and this of course is not an individual effort. It's also assisted by our military and their military and their government and everything else but my the my advice was aimed at getting these people happily established as members of the South Vietnamese nation. And developing their economics a bit and most of all developing their trust in the South Vietnamese government. One of the critical things that they did not have and most people in Vietnam do

not have is security and security is a ring around the rosy until the city or village or town is convinced that the South Vietnamese government will protect them. They will not report VC movements. So until they report the movements obviously we can't protect them. And I think the hour of my advice was aimed at breaking this virtuous circle. I think we did it and having done it. Now we are a little more invulnerable divisi pressure they can't come in and murder one of my village or hamlet. Geez they just don't get that far down the street at midnight before somebody sees them and raises the alarm. What kind of alarm system do you have. There is basically no alarm system I think there is a whistle on top of a tower in town. But how can you distinguish them. How can we distinguish the

Vietcong as they are on the street at twelve o'clock midnight carrying rifles and looking like people who are wearing black pajamas. They're not ours. And if they start shooting when you ask them who they are you know darn well they're not ours. Most of the soldiers that don't go through the town at that time of night are in uniform. Is there a curfew. There is somewhat of a curfew I think it's about 10:30. It's never been very tightly held because I don't think it's necessary to hold it. When people were scared of the Viet Cong they closed up their houses at 9 o'clock. Now that we have some means of security some measure of security there. But they keep out by ones and twos until 1:00 or 2:00 in the morning. I know I've been out at the bus station at 1:30 in the morning going a ham sandwich so it can't be a very tight curfew. Do you feel that in the 11 months that you've been there that the South Vietnamese

government has gained any proper any territory with the territory or gained. Well we'll tell you one time all right let's let's take territory first. This isn't a war being fought over territory it's a war being fought over individual people. We certainly covered an awful lot of territory in my province. We've done this with the knowledge of what's going to happen and very little of that territory has stuck to our fingers. We can go through I've seen a military operation go through a major Kong strongpoint and find no B.S. and everybody was happy happy for the DVN or government of Vietnam until the rear guard got out there and that was matter of fact the night the VC block one of our only road 10 kilometers east of where this week was.

So until while the road was blocked the territory we'd swept was ours. When the road was unblocked the VC came back to their village and I would not be there even as much as show tip of my nose in that village somebody cut it off. So territorial gains are only dependent upon expanding the popular base that I mentioned into them. Sounds like a ring around a rosy. So this war has more rings and more Rosies than anything I know of. Now as far as gains made by the Vietnamese government I think we've made rather large gains. We are getting close to having more and more of these popular bases around the country. Also I think the aid program has done a great deal to teach the Vietnamese government on all levels to govern with a responsibility towards the people which believe it or not is a brand new concept in Asia. And this gives us a popular

backing which probably still fairly low people consider a government something imposed on the most respect by God and necessary to their existence because obviously they do need some services from the government. But to be avoided as much as possible. What kind of programs for example health programs does they Id have there. Well let's take around my province I think I have nine hella stations which are run by health technicians which will cater to anybody for anything. From childbirth up to cholera cholera We of course will try to evacuate immediately into our main hospital which is also aid support it now in order to clarify the point again. Aid does not run any of these aid assists in this case the Vietnamese Ministry of Health in maintaining them and supplying them and getting trained technicians by training their own

technicians and things of that sort. We also act very often as a quick reaction office where the Vietnamese can't move fast enough to get cholera like scene down call from us to our men in Saigon and a short visit of our man in Saigon to the Ministry of Health. Well get the thing broken loose without waiting for five weeks for the various telegrams and papers to go up the chain of the Vietnamese government. All right so we have that in health schools we build a number of schools primary education schools and train teachers to go into them. We've also interested the villagers into building their own schools with our own with our assistance. The government again gives the government of Vietnam a quantity of surplus and usable goods some of which are not surplus cement is not surprise 10 roofing is not surplus. Food starts school kids for the kids and all of

their skin be put into the education department to assist in building schools strengthening the interest in education and through that strengthening the image of the GBN again. Do you think that the Vietcong are trying to sabotage for example the hospital or any of these other operations which were blatantly supplied by the United States. Not well not blatantly supplied by the United States the United States is way in the background. But obviously the Vietcong does know that somewhere in the background Uncle Sam is watching not in our province yet because we are historically the seeders of yet many as I say and we are still chock a block with good yet men guerrillas whose first worry is really the people they're also trying to build a popular base to put their point across. This is where aid gets so tremendously important because without ours working in this particular field of course they have it wide open and

military operations are one of these things that goes to destroy a popular base. Would you say that the average peasant worker. Professional person who live in the province where you're working is undecided or just doesn't want to be in the middle of it. Would you prefer to be left alone. Well and many cases the average person just doesn't know he doesn't have sufficient information to be either undecided or decided he's been living farming that plot of land for 17 2025 generations I don't know what he's always had a government. This government may seem better or worse than the other one. But this is as I said an evil of life which one needs have so a great many people can't even be classed as undecided among those there are some that are undecided that have seen both sides and have said let's wait and see which side seems to be victorious. Then

riding slightly further than that there are other persons that have completely tied in Farmersville And so I think is a better word than it completely tied in with the JVM. This is one of the victories again counter-insurgency planning in things like national or cultural cooperatives where the man borrows and pays back from the government or from a government sponsored organization. Make him tied to the government through the pocket book. He is definitely decided by that time. Then on the other hand there are people that have gone overboard from communist propaganda and have decided that the only salvation in their country is to throw everybody out and start all over again. Can you distinguish between the age groups and the types of people or doesn't that matter. The older people I think are not yet really happy with this effort to win them over to one side or the other. The younger firebrands I think a very sexed

formed opinions either for our side or against our side the middle aged people I think that group that I mention that has decided that is tied up with the government via a pocket book or some other such thing. I jarred the pocket book there is a bridge in town something of that sort. You're in Boston now recruiting for more a ID people. What kind of a life are they expect to have before we turn back is disgusting yet imagine. Yeah I mean these provincial representative is a little bit different from what the average AI D representative would be doing. Well for one we're recruiting Vietnamese provincial Representatives and for to a lot of. These jobs for which we are recruiting are highly flexible for instance our refugee directories will be out with the refugees very often so they will be out in the field just as much as I am. So all our medical technicians they want we all living in a hospital in Saigon and I expect to get one

or two maybe even down to my hospital where they will be sharing the same life. Physically the life is not too uncomfortable. You have an apartment in Saigon which gives you and Saigon is a fairly interesting town although it's overcrowded a bit. Then in the provinces you have very good living quarters or considered. This is relative to what the ghetto meas live in relative to what we live in in Boston. I'll describe mine in a minute and you will have edible decent food which will not turn you sick every time you have lunch or supper quarters. I probably have some of the worst quarters in the fourth region or fourscore and I have a very sturdy cement house no windows tiled floors. Room for myself

flat bed. And a big water tank out in the back which a truck fills up every week with fresh water from the city water tower. And I find life very comfortable down there. There are no families allowed to be there. Unfortunately not or fortunately not from my viewpoint Unfortunately not but then I said worrying about my family all day. What kind of satisfaction do you think there would be for these people who might go to the military position. Well if there were no satisfactions I wouldn't be out there I happen to like riding over countryside in a chopper. And this I can do and do and be paid for it so to speak it's somewhat of a sense of adventure I mean but I mean However he like up there he was somewhat of a sense of adventure has to come in there. But the major satisfaction is that you feel you're doing extremely vital work. This is as challenging as anything

can be is as challenging as playing chess with a master really because as I said we're developing the popular base. They're developing the popular base move and countermove and very often you do not even know that you're countering one of their moves. You see something is going Henri you fix it up and then later you discover Well this is the point they're going to push on now we know because we captured one of their Koreas. The other satisfaction is that if you're a generalist as I have sort of become over the years you find that you can use almost all of your aptitude. You're not stuck in just designing electronic circuits or turning out copy excuses to you or doing this or another thing one day you may be fixing a water pump the next day you're trying to get somebody that's turned slightly and he back on our side using your best psychology. You may even try to be an armchair strategist when there is still

action and military action combined in a village. I've been called in on pig diseases human diseases well drilling effects machinery folks Motors power system installation a whole gamut of things which I can sometimes do or maybe not do but I have been sometimes frustrated on in the United States that here I sit with knowledge of something and I can't find any place to put it down there. You can develop your own areas your own fields your own thoughts. And put them to work and then you can sit back and watch where they grow or don't grow. Well it certainly sounds like quite a challenge for whoever would take it up. I'd like to turn before our time is up. Back to the military situation in Vietnam. First of all I was wondering if there had been any American officials in your province looking over the situation and we had a congressman from New York congressman Resnick

who came down for a good part of the day and thoroughly enjoyed himself. We thoroughly enjoyed him I think he was the only one. He was the only one yes. And what kind of things was he looking for. I think he was on a fact finding trip to Vietnam and I think he was probably sufficiently well versed to look in the back woods as well as in the front door. I also have to say has McNamara any. No none of the major officials have ever come down the province was fairly poor. Eight or nine months ago and still has a reputation of being slightly that for a mantle rather than showing how good our effort is. This is a matter of fact when I talk it over I was told I was getting a bored loser. You know McNamara has recently said we're no longer losing the war what about your privates

have humanit on a new economic civilian base. And of course in my province he was very definitely right. We are winning. I think eventually it's going to take a long time and I don't know what all the constants coming into this mean but eventually I think we'll reach the 50 percent point where instead of us having to go out and get these people and Jaalam into a popular base they will come and ask to be put into a popular base and then we've won. Has there been any discussion about the student demonstrations the United States against the war. Very very little. Our military there are professionals. I discussed them with the military because I'm normally the only civilian down there. Our military men are professionals and I don't think it bothers them very much. They don't like it but it's not going to make them write home saying send me home nobody wants me to fight down here. They've got a tremendous professional attitude slow steady sure hard driving and

they have my full respect and admiration. What about some of the Vietnamese population have they heard about these demonstrations. I think undoubtedly they have come to think of it I've been asked once or twice and they've taken my word in the military's word for it. Sure. So this is what freedom means in our country of 10 people want to go up and shout down with Johnson. We're going to put them on the front page too. But I think we can make them aware of the fact that all they have to do is look around and see what we're doing. They are aware of the fact that we are helping them and helping them. Because we are a helpful type nation as well as maybe you want their friendship. If some of the potential provincial Representatives but a most Vietnam certainly is did want to find out more about it should they speak to you. We have an office in 55 Tramon Street in Boston with a telephone number which is calculus 7 4 3 1 0.

Normally it's open from 9:00 a.m. in the morning until 8:00 pm in the afternoon and they can call there and they're experts in their fields. I would like to interview them and find those whether they're suitable or not and I would suggest that anybody that has any sense of adventure at all and is motivated to doing something more for what this country stands for than just the normal run of the mill thing I would suggest that they call and find out. And what about the people who may want to go with a ID but not necessarily to the recruitment there is through Washington 25 DC Agency for International Development and I don't know what the status of those programs is. Thank you very much.