Crocker Snow Reports From Germany; West German Seminar: The Concpet of the Great Society

Greetings from West Germany. This is Crocker said I was speaking from the studios of Radio Dr. Ballard cologne. The city where the world famous Gothic cathedral. This week the story of the Great Society on a foreign mission more precisely a report on a German-American seminar held in this country last month entitled The concept of the Great Society. The seminar was jointly sponsored by a German foundation and the United States Information Agency. Participants were five American faculty members and a mixed bag of 40 odd interested and influential West Germans for a full five days a series of lectures and Round Table talks were held in a quiet retreat some 40 miles northeast of Bonn. As a first question about a seminar in Germany about the Great Society why so called propaganda about America. The answer is greater than that

according to Leo Cramer an experienced Washington hand and one of the American representatives. But it's not the specifics of what we do that necessarily can translate to another society but it's a concern for the individual man. It's a different point of view going abroad in the world from mass welfare which is perhaps what you might call an old style welfare concern to the full utilization of the resources of every individual and the people are carrying on this dialogue in every country and they're interested in how we're doing these things how are we coping with motivation of the poor. How are we giving people who never hope to go beyond grade school Hope teaching parents who never expect their children to go much into grade school. Encouragement and hope that their children should go in and go on and want to go on in spite of the tradition against it.

It's this kind of dialogue that has application because then once you get the commitment then you go into a society and you find be your own institutions how to how to solve the problem. So it's important they know that we have a new type of commitment in our land. That we're not only opening the school doors and allowing anyone who shows up to come in but we're going forth amongst the poor bring the message to the poor and bring them to the school door. This is this is a new avenue it has a new enthusiasm and a new push in national society. It's important that they know about it and then they'll apply it if it if it has appeal to their own ways. But it wasn't just American idealism behind the seminar. A number of Germans have shown interest in Great Society programs and possible applications of them for their country. In fact the seminar was made possible by a West German foundation. The fleet that shift on the foundation has

worked for 40 years in the area of social development. Founded by freed hébert the first president of the Weimar Republic and post-World War 1 Germany it has always had close ties with the Social Democratic Party of West Germany. But it is financed by a combination of private grants and government funds. Even the American Ford Foundation kicks in. The headquarters of the organization is in the small city of big noise dot in the center of North Rhine-Westphalia. About 40 miles east of Bonn they're in a modern building filled with conference rooms and lecture halls in a quiet rural setting. A series of international seminars and courses take place the year around. It is there that the seminar on the Great Society was held simultaneously with another for Africans on problems of developing nations. The participants in the Great Society seminar spent five days hashing out such subjects as why the war on poverty state and regional planning and the

challenging effects of automation such a task was a natural for the free gift known as seminar chairman who explains. The free to here budget if don't has to friend things to do are different tasks to do. At first it is a foundation which is wants or is participating one head of education. This was the starting point of this audacious adult education in the sense that we have in our seminars might implicate us not the last man but multiplication of facts of opinions and so on. And we have over there. And moreover we are working in the developing developing countries. That means we have and have the people

from the developed big countries in our school here. To train them as journalists as trade unionists as members of cooperatives and so on and we send out our own members to train these people in the countries abroad. Our foundation is in friendly terms with the United States foundation as a whole and especially on this field of work in the developing countries. And because of this and the fact that Asian is one of our main aims we were very glad to organize this seminar together with the information service of the United States Embassy in but go to because and this is in this way we wanted to communicate what the great society is

to our people to these multiplications us the multiplication is that the seminar was directed at consisted of a varied group of some 50 journalists trade union members educators and economist's gathered for the occasion by the German foundation. In addition 30 East Africans sat in one day and a special group of 40 German trade union members another. The American faculty was rounded up by the US Information Service. It included three professors Jack Barbash and Robert Rose on both professors of economics at the University of Wisconsin and Joseph cough a professor of regional planning at the University of Illinois. In addition to experienced Washington men Ben Siegel presently director of the office of liaison of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and Leo Kramer formerly director of Vesta and now in the dbl group for economic planning in

Washington. Mr. Eugene Kramer of the U.S. Information Agency attached to the American embassy about go to coordinated the seminar on the American side on the concept of the seminar first was generated approximately a year ago less than that when one of the present participants Mr. Leo Cramer was visiting Germany as a specialist. And was himself I believe quite surprised to see how much interest there seemed to be on the part of German officials particularly on the working level in the various ministries of the federal government dealing with social problems as well as in some of the states or lender in exactly what the nature and the concept of the great society as it was developed or and was developing in the United States

since the formulation of the Johnson administration. We agreed that this was a subject that could very well be more widely explained in specific terms rather that in the very general terms that the ordinary citizen of Europe is apt to read about it in the in his own press. And we also were very anxious to exploit the actual words that President Johnson himself had used in describing the great society as something which did not necessarily stop at the American shores but that was applicable all over the world and that it was his hope that the waves created by the Great Society would transmit and wash up on shores all over the world.

Would you say the purpose then could be defined as one of education or a description by osmosis in that you were trying to to get the message of the Great Society to some of the intellectual and leaders of the Federal Republic and hope that they will thereby transmit the message on to the rest of the population. Well it's not so much a question of transmitting the message I think it's a question of exchanging ideas Germany as you know is this is a country that has gone very very far in its social concepts in its concepts of the relationship between the social problems that exist in the country and the government itself. It's an eye it's an egg. It's a means of exchanging ideas and exchanging experiences and from benefiting from each other's knowledge and experience as well as for us to be able to explain in great detail the fact that the Great Society is not simply a domestic problem or

a domestic program but one which has much more far reaching impact all over the civilized world and particularly among highly industrialized affluent societies such as exists in Germany. And to help pinpoint their responsibility of which they are to exert an extent quite aware in connection with the developing countries and other areas of the world. Despite West Germany's high state of industrialisation it was at first hard to see just how the idea of the great society applies to Germany in more than just general ways. But the application is there to be found. Leo Kramer for example talked to the seminar about the educational reforms taking place in America and how these could apply to what is often termed the educational catastrophe in West Germany.

You have to be aware of the fact that we do have some similarities but many traditions that are quite different. For example I describe the education of a child in West Virginia and his potential 85 percent of West Virginia children today never enter college. Only five to eight percent of those in grammar school ever get to college. And I describe this as an example of the kind of poverty problem we have with our poor and education. But then when we come and turn the leaf over to a discussion of how does this relate to Germany we have to say that that person those percentages are quite acceptable and the norm for Germany. And from this we begin to talk about why. Why does America want to push forward and what's the meaning of our educational revolution and what is the Johnson administration proposed to do and when it says that we must have education opportunities for all Americans when in this

land a rich and powerful industrial society is educating at a figure that we consider unacceptable. I said quite frankly to our German colleagues that I would be happier and apparently many of them would be happier if they could start to double that figure and in the very process of doubling that figure they would reach a whole new Strattera of German society. As such the thought of you has been well received. Well I'm not suggesting it's a new thought I'm seen as many many people that many people have had the problem that comes that is how to implement it. This seems to be no no vehicle here at this time prepared to go forward. The questions that come up are are questions that we face in our own country you know. Well where you going to get qualified teachers and when will there be enough classrooms and when will you set this all up and get ready to go. The German apparently now sees this is an obstacle we say well we're going to go ahead and try to simultaneously make the commitment and produce the teachers and the classrooms and

somehow and so in the sense muddle through and get go down that road the German temperament right now doesn't appear to be prepared to make that kind of commitment. Leo Kramer his basic message that the number of West Germans getting the benefit of higher education is well below that of the U.S. in absolute percentage relative or any other kind of figures is an accurate one. But the implied comparison of the figures and the systems that was some rebuttal from West German participants in the seminar including the chairman who walked on the one hand I think you cannot compare percentages because the educational system is quite different. On the other hand I would say that I would add critical addition of mine that it is not only as it is in my opinion a question of reforming the whole traditional school system in Germany which hampers all of.

Reforms. On the other hand there is something something moving. A few years ago scientists and people from the public stage pointed to the fact that we had a sort of educational catastrophe as it was called buildings catastrophic and this was a starting point and now we are on the stage that everywhere in the state administration and so on. We get aware of this these problems and they are not only official the steps taken to improve the situation but there are also the beginnings of us so-called of activities from the people from the. So for example there is an action has been in action in southern Germany southern south western Germany where caught students go to dengue in our slum that means students go in the rural rural districts and telling the people how important it is to send their children to higher

institutions of higher education to give. Them information and so on and the success was so big. The success of this action was so big that other universities and other group of students in other parts of Germany want to take it over and take over the idea and the means and so improve the educational situation in Germany. There are some encouraging signs in the so-called German educational catastrophe. But even so progress is slow. A certain inertia is evident still to Americans used to Washington ways seminar speaker Leo Cramer discusses this inertia. You know you come as a foreigner and you can't always say you know why and why a society does or does not do something. The thing but there's reason to be concerned that the percentage of young people in Germany educated higher levels hasn't changed substantially in in this century. His

reason be concerned about it I get concerned that we have a Peace Corps in the German have a Peace Corps but one doesn't get a feeling of a real reaction among the youth that this is an international obligation in the coming fourth in large numbers. So one one has reason I think from our contacts from the American point of view to be concerned because we have an international commitment now to all peoples. And we feel and I think the president has as it's said that we expect our allies to help us carry forth this commitment. The administration of the German government apparently has this commitment. But then when you send out an appeal for volunteers to a Peace Corps you don't get the kind of response that we would find acceptable in our country. You can take this in any area for example great great interest in Headstart because and want to duplicate this interest in ten other areas because here it had started the straits a number of things that surprise and interest the Germans first from idea to implementation

we were able to go within six months and put half a million children into a new program in school. The Germans are absolutely amazed that one could mount such a program in such a short span of time and get it going. And this is something that they can use as a model for the next part is that our new interest in our own youth our awareness that poverty starts very early. The poverty of the skull region and the poverty of hopelessness the poverty of the assumption that one will fail starts very early and that we're increasingly working hard with our youngest children. And that this has great application in Germany the child the sick starts school on the assumption that it will soon be out of school it's not going to do its best. The hope has to start very early. And here we have lots of discussion lots of interest. A peculiarly American idealism embodied in LEO Kramer's words

was a watchword of the weeklong German-American seminar. But despite the seminars or specialist title the concept of the Great Society it was not so much a discourse as a dialogue. This was as the co-sponsors the fleet and the US Information Agency hoped Frank talks about contemporary American problems and solutions and their applications to West Germany. This applies particularly to the area of civil rights. The American story is well known throughout the world and Germany is no exception here. One is asked constantly about it in the newspapers one reads of the sit down strikes the riots and the Alabama vote. There is a general awareness of the problem and a vague awareness of the steps taken by the federal government to rectify it. But the whole thing is considered here as an American problem of no real relevance to West Germany. Seminar speaker Ben Siegel delivered

two talks on the subject. Currently director of the office of liaison of the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission and that's charged with implementing Title 5 of the civil rights law. He was well qualified to tell of the encouraging and discouraging signs but more than that he sought to make the point that the problem in America has world wide application. Racism knows no boundaries. That racism whether it's based on racial grounds religious grounds ethnic grounds or just anti foreigners anti outlined it is slander so to speak is as dangerous and as evil as any other type of racism and that the nature of the world being what it is we have to be concerned about the growth of racism anyplace in the world. And I cited my own experience. I point that out when I was over for Brighton England back in 54 there was a good deal of in-patients

and a good deal of skepticism about our race relations efforts in the United States and the British seem to take the attitude that. They would never have any problems like this. But as you and I know in the past 12 years quite a serious problem has developed and this is true in any number of countries. So what I've tried to do is to give sufficient background so there's an understanding of what is going on in the United States and also hopefully an opportunity to make the transfer of this problem of racism on an international basis and the danger that it involved implies considering the particular history of Germany in the last 30 years do you think this is particularly important for the German people to understand. Yes I think it is and the people that come to seminars like this of course are the ones that seem to understand this question and the hope is of course that the reason they have these seminars and they

in turn will go well go out and spread the gospel so to speak. I think too there's an inadequate and I got awareness of the. International implications of the civil rights activities and civil rights movement and I fear not necessarily this seminar but in other contacts I've had trade union wise not allies in Germany that like other people. The transfer between and I Negro and lets say and ethnic group or anti religious group is made is made often enough and clearly enough and I have the feeling that you know the further away the problem is the more the easier it is to to be objective about the problem and the closer you come to home of course there's tends to be just like we tend to be defensive about our problems and tendency here to be defensive and in terms of the past in terms of anti-Semitism and so on are so fortunate.

Ben Siegel then sought through his seminar talks to convince the German audience of the relevance of American experience and civil rights and racism to the Federal Republic. But is it really so relevant. Director of the meetings Doctor Who but well Clark answered that this problem of race relations and civil rights is especially important for Germany because we have to face the problem that we have seen several years about one million point two. Workers from Italy from Spain from Turkey and elsewhere in our country. And it seems as if we need these workers for a pretty long time. So that may be or that is the danger that within a few years we may have slums we may have ghettos we may have all of the minority problems which you are facing now in the United States.

It was not just in the problem of minority groups that the German-American seminar found common ground. In fact in many general and several specific areas questions of mutual interest and importance arose. And in this way the exercise was judged worthwhile but nevertheless the impression lingers of a one sided conversation. The faculty was all American. The audience all German What was the result. Ben Siegel any kind of international seminar. Potentially presents this kind of danger. But I tell you what saves this situation. We have five factory members and that means we have five points of use and we're doing a good job on unwillingly almost of showing that it's hard to speak of America as as one America because here we have five factory members who have no hesitation about disagreeing with each other. And I hasten to add that while the tendency is when you're overseas to become more patriotic than the king so to speak and and defend more than you should they cause

you run into misconceptions. A seminar here the atmosphere seems to be conducive for giving an honest and balanced kind of picture rather than trying to you know sell your country. I asked the German chairman of the seminar about the same danger. I asked Mr. Siegel about this the general impression of this danger that these seminar may encounter of appearing to outsiders and to the participants as nothing more than an excuse for America to whitewash yourself to boast of her progress but nothing more than that do you see this danger. I see this danger but I think this danger doesn't become a reality in this seminar because on the one hand we have five members of the five American members of the faculty and most of them have different opinions. And as Americans do and as I know from my my own experience they don't hold back these opinions but interrupt the speaker and say you know I see this situation in a different way and so on. So this is

one correction of this danger. On the other hand the German audience of the seminar is it seems to me he's so sensitive that it always very often points out the weak points of the argumentation of the American speakers and says oh we don't have the impression that everything is so good in the United States that these and these problems and then the American speakers try to answer it and they admit that it is not only a story of success but own Also a story of failure. So according to Doctor Who but welcome back. Chairman of the German-American seminar held here in Germany recently entitled The concept of the Great Society. It was not just a one sided conversation. And for this reason it is probable that the venture was a success a give and take proposition between social workers of West Germany and America. This is Crocker snow

speaking from the studios of Radio Deutsch of our co-own West Germany.