WGBH Journal; Media Ethics: Sexism In Media

I'd like to start with Ed Diamond who is at the far end of the table there and is a media critic for The Post Newsweek corporation. He's also a professor at MIT where he delves into media areas. He's well-known as a media critic having written for a number of publications you see his articles in The New York Times magazine New York magazine. He's all around of the lot. And Ed let's start off I did realize that sitting here would mean I would start off but I will start off if you asked me to one of my credential so call should be that I was Ellen Goodmans boss at Newsweek back in the dark old ages of what I'll call the old sexism as opposed to the new sexism. And that was when Helen was quote a clip girl and the girls quote did all the research while the editors made all the big decisions and we might get into those battle days. I took I take this assignment seriously because I take journalism seriously

although it tends to be part of show business at times. And I think the women's movement seriously although it sometimes becomes part of that same entertainment complex. I think I'd like to say very briefly that I did detect four stages in the ME and I'll use media and press interchangeably for stages in the press coverage of the women's movement and roughly this would be the last 10 15 years if it's necessary we could talk about before but just talking about things from the mid 60s not seems to me the first stage of coverage was what what I would be called the consciousness raising stage of managers people like me editors like me.

By the women's movement and we got rid of some of the surface sense of the service. Problems like referring to people as petite blondes are statuesque political activists or attractive Congress women. So that was the kind of the first stage of cleaning up the media's act and up. It was a surface thing and it was cosmetics not very not very deep. The second step in this relationship would be what I would call the stage of revolt in reform when women's groups began bringing legal suits to get equal pay to get a fair share of jobs and they tended to be successful successful in the sense they are much the same sense that a bar Maynard's remarks at lunch successful a sense that women by the early 70s in mid seventies got back to where they had been now 40

or 50 years ago in terms of numbers in in the press. Let me just interject very briefly a personal memoir here because it involves both Ellen and me. When when times are good when when jobs are scarce. Jobs are scarce for women of course the Depression when when other conditions obtain for example World War 2 when the men marched off to war then women were able to come into jobs in the media in the press and move up during the war years. And I know of Helen No Helen that I have never talked about this but one of my jobs when I was a tough editor of Newsweek in the early 60s was to fire all the women who had come in during the war as the writers and had risen to be editors to clear out these old old We'll talk about ages and as well as things to

clear out these old women to bring in younger people men and girls like Ellen. So probably today the numbers about what they were back in the 40s or 20s even for women in journalism. Well like all reform movements the women's movement has been essentially conservative just as the civil rights movement was conservative. That is it did not get at the basis of the problem which I'll come to for as a basis for the deep roots of the problem which I've come to in a minute minute just as civil rights movement was reformist got the vote but did not deal with the root issues of poverty and property that underlie racism. And the other injustices in our society currently we're in then this

conservative phase of fall the fall of the consciousness raising and followed the reforms. And what we do is get articles in The New York Times advising women on what to wear in the boardroom. Obviously a three piece suit and how to behave and what length of the skirt should be and how to comport themselves how to be. As you know there were in our country until recently there Atal there was no such thing as adolescence or even childhood. If you look at early American painting or. Paintings and 71000 sets where you see children painted as little adults in a little suit you know they were little adults. Well now women are being painted that way too they're going to be. You know men in slightly different clothes in our present Conservative face. I don't indict the New York Times for telling people how to dress and how to behave. But I suggest or I hope that this is not the

last eight. Of the women's movement and of the fight against injustice because sexism is one of the kinds of injustices in society. I don't know when the next phase will come. The old order I hope is dying. It takes a long time to die. The new order will take some time to be born. In the meantime we have the morbid symptoms of our present state. I suggest that the last stage will be a real recognition and acceptance. A casual acceptance because it's inherent in the way we are brought up and raised a respect for difference or respect for diversity and not a world where everyone has to look like those in charge. And Ellen I think you've talked about this. When that happens it will be a liberation not just of women but of men and not

just of blacks but of whites. Thank you. Our second speaker is Wilma Scott Heidi and will most probably best known nationally as the former president of the National Organization for Women. She's a behavioral scientist and is a card carrying oar in and she's been a distinguished visiting scholar at the University of Massachusetts a Wellesley College scholar and she's well-known as a lecturer and a spokesman for the feminist viewpoint. Wilma Thanks Carol. I'm sure you mean spokeswoman a spokes person. I do indeed. Forgive me may well but I did sense that's relevant to you and I am very straight forward to some of the comments in terms of language right. I didn't want to deprive her of as a Jew. Great opening. Yes you did and she did and we didn't even plan it. I think part of what Ed said is some almost true confessions I think it's right that the media reporting has improved

from what it was some 10 years ago but then it really only had one way to go. I have difficulty with a five minute period it takes me at least 10 minutes to clear my throat. But I'm going to very quickly go through some things and then if you have questions or comments I'm sure you'll come in later. I am very glad for one thing that the broadcasting media anyhow are licensed in the public interest otherwise I'm not sure that the broadcast media anyhow would have reported much of anything except what would come through a some of the more sensational or dramatic aspects of what the women's movement and indeed did feminism is all about. The first comment I want to make in terms of the media is I hope that they do some homework on a lot of things and these are just a few of the things one is on the matter of the language. The matter of sexist language is not trivial it is not unimportant for any people who say that when we talk about man we talk about he of course we mean she and of course mean woman is

generic That's baloney. It is completely from my point of view intolerable. Anybody who thinks this is trivial and that we shouldn't waste our time on this we should get to more important issues should try for at least a year I'm not talking about a century using woman instead of man when talking about people and use she instead of he when talking about the the individual sex or unknown or sex unspecified young white man woman does include me and she includes He and I won't even discuss this issue with people who have not tried this experience. And the raise consciousness as a consequence of it for at least the period of a year it is not an unimportant issue this refers of course to the chair man the Congress man and so forth. A position does not have a sex. And as soon as there's any reference to anything that suggests one sex or the other on some level of consciousness very profoundly

in ways that many people don't seem to realize we have excluded from the consciousness images of the other sex. OK another thing is there's no such thing as women's lib or lib. It's a trivializing way that the media still refers to. Not always but often for very serious movement. The word is liberation. There is therefore no such word as lib or the word lib. As a matter of fact in an unabridged dictionary means castrate which is precisely what some people would like to communicate about women who are involved in the women's movement. It is a cruel and insensitive way I prefer in to a very profound movement which gets me to some comment on what it Diamond said. I think that many of the actions that we have taken in the movement have been of reformist nature and have been in my view relatively conservative. But what feminism is about is not conservative. It is not reform reformist.

It is I think profoundly radical. This gets me to report in the media of articles that you may have seen the comments from broadcast media of what's happened to all the radicals which rules out. Rose out in this reporting feminist. And I don't think one can be radical without being feminist. I just don't think it applies. OK. The concepts of the movement are apparently more subtle than is often known but people who report in the media before. Precisely because this movement is very different in many ways and any other movement in human time. Apparently a lot of the aspects of it are missed by people because we aren't in the streets. We aren't shooting. And most activists don't intend to or want to and because we are getting to some very subtle and not so subtle everyday things in every aspect of our lives personally and publicly our citizens as employers and so forth. It seems to be missed. Let

me give some examples and put this in the context of why I think it's important that we have people who are feminist as commentators on all issues the Equal Rights Amendment yes a woman's right to control her own body yes but every human issue that effects people for instance about power and politics and how feminist are I think in the process not all feminist and not all the same way of redefining what power itself means. So that we aren't. I hope in the process not only of changing the cast of characters as it were but changing the script. The whole area of world affairs. This is an international women's decade the third year of it. The panel yesterday there was no mention of the fact that we are into that and that there is an international women's movement in this if it has no relevance for the feminist star and I've just jotted down some quick things I'm only going to mention

subjects feminist perspectives on Germanics a feminist perspective on Watergate on Vietnam. On desegregation in our schools in art and literature in theology the media itself the alternative media that are right in the many people who might have been here at this conference who are in fact are making ethical comments on the existing media. The fact that just the the broadcasting of the content of a very exciting women's studies that are going on around this country this too is part of the movement the whole area sports and there are literally hundreds of others I haven't mentioned. Now I just want to mention. Several general sayings worthy the media generally hasn't even picked up what we have done when we've gone through the process of adapting ourselves to the to the regular or the general media and

things haven't even been picked up and the kinds of things that have been picked up. We have issued press releases the MATY. We have issued press releases and I issued one particularly in early November of 970 20 point statement hoping that it would be it got out to the Associated Press United Press International Reuters News Service the all the TV networks both commercial and the public broadcasting that did some analysis of of the Nixon previous administration addressed the question of Watergate and the meaning of this 20 substantive issues. And I want to tell you that not a single not a single one of the media and others we gave it to I mention even picked it up. Now I can give you countless examples of that kind of thing let me tell you what has been picked

up from those of us are going to active in the media invasions of our privacy. How we relate to the people in our lives particularly the band. When I talk about invasions of privacy I don't mean just the sort of thing that Ron Nelson was talking about today where people are ask a question that is tasteless insensitive. I'm talking about literal invasions of our private homes uninvited without appointment literally breaking in. It's breaking and entering camera running. We could be running around naked for all they know. You know that's real invasion of privacy. The examples that I could give you of this are almost beyond belief. I wish they were. D As a matter of fact from others and myself the number of press

releases information invited guest editorials that have been turned down after we've been invited and other things are so numerous that it's been suggested to me by our friend that he just does things I have alone I should put together a book called A Woman's book of knowledge refused. Yes the coverage of the media has improved but the people in the media have got to do some homework on what the women's movement what feminism as an international movement unlike any other in human history portends in very positive ways. It's improved Yes it's got a long way to go. Thank you Wilma for what is really a world view not just a narrow focus one. Next we like to turn to Gwen Diller Gwen is executive producer of public affairs at Channel 5 and she has been also news and public

affairs director at the LVI TV in Boston. She's had extensive experience in the media on television. She has been the recipient of an award for outstanding journalism and community affairs network the American Association of University Women. And she had an Emmy nomination for one of her programs when you. I feel a little bit like the defender of the broadcast media here and I do disagree with Miss Heidi on some points that I'll just touch on very briefly. There have been some major changes in the media's coverage of the women's movement just since the six or seven years ago that I was a practicing news reporter in Washington. I want to talk a little bit about some of those areas I think they have to do with what's being covered with the sensitivity that it's being covered with. But I honestly have to say a couple of words too about the limitations of TV news in trying to cover an issue like the women's movement as Miss Heidi suggests I think one of the

major changes is that today instead of covering the women's movement as such we've turned to covering substantive issues that affect women and whether they consider themselves part of the women's movement or not. Issues like E.R. A and I liberalized abortion laws and credit discrimination and equal jobs and equal pay and that type of thing. I think the media has become more sensitive to covering the women's movement and I think in turn the women's movement has become more sensitive to the media. I think that mutuality is important to stress because back in the old days which were only about seven years ago there was a lot of mutual stereotyping and mutual mistrust. Just an example that I can give you off the top of my head of that is about seven years ago when I was covering a women's demonstration in Lafayette Park in Washington and we were filming the speech that was being made by one of the

leaders of the women's movement. In fact the still leading spokesperson for the movement now and I remember that she began almost every sentence of her speech by referring to the pig media the pig media this is the big media that presumably referring to both male and female reporters alike. Needless to say that is the kind of atmosphere that doesn't exactly open the channels to real free communication. I think men and women reporters have become more sensitive about admitting the biases that we bring as men and women to covering the women's movement realizing that we're trying to cover a social change story that really goes to the heart of our understandings of what being men and women need. And even if we can't filter out those biases at least I think we're becoming more aware of them and more sensitive to them. I want to say as I mentioned earlier a couple of things about the limitations

of television news and trying to cover this kind of story. TV news covers events better than they cover processes. In fact I think really TV news is probably at its best when it's covering things that start not before 10 o'clock in the morning that end in time for the 6 o'clock news. And often we tend to get hung up on events on marches rallies picketing Siddons demonstrations that kind of thing. And we do tend to lose sight of the forest for the trees. Something interesting has happened from my perspective. Right now I'm talking only from the prepackaged perspective of the producer of local news and public affairs programming. Something interesting has happened in the last seven years to the movement as news Heidi suggests I think the movement

is becoming its separate concerns much in the way that the civil rights movement of the 50s has become in the 70s the concern for housing the concern for employment the concern for integrated schools et cetera. I think the women's movement is becoming the concern for the concern for equal job pay. The concern for liberalized abortion laws et cetera. And something else has happened. I see the leaders of the women's movement. Getting far out in front of women as a body themselves something in the manner of the advance team of an army that's so far ahead of the army that it's in danger now of being separated and being cut off from that army. Let me just throw in just a couple of quick statistics that maybe illustrate what I'm trying to say. I was looking at an old CBS

public opinion poll that was taken several years ago. The poll these were asked men and women were asked if they favored IAR a 66 percent of the men who were asked this question favored only 47 percent of the women favored it. The police were asked if they sympathize with the overall objectives of the movement and 54 percent of the men did and only 41 percent of the women did. Police were asked if they supported the movement's objectives and again over 40 percent of the men supported the objectives and only 29 percent of the women supported them. But when everyone was asked if they thought the women's movement was going to create some major changes in their society in the next 10 years. Sixty two percent of the women said yes they thought it would. And what I read from those statistics is that the majority of women see some big changes coming down the pike that they don't understand those changes.

They don't want them and they don't believe that they're going to affect their life positively. And I think that the media has a role in having fostered those kinds of attitudes in women. I think the main thing that we are guilty of is that in the early days of our coverage we accepted a kind of situational stereotype and we presented the women's movement as trying to get something that men had. And we assume that our main job was to make the objectives of the women's movement understandable and palatable to men. I think we see now that we were dead wrong we should have been making an understandable and palatable to women. As I said before television is better at covering events and covering processes and looking back over the years I think yes we are probably guilty of some sexism in our coverage but I think too that we can see now that sexism wasn't one of the main faults that we were guilty on.

Thanks Glenn. I'm glad you worked the issue of social change. Ellen Goodman is in the process of writing a book dealing with social change so I think in a minute or two she'll have some things to say about that issue. What I'd like to do briefly is give you one woman's adventures in media land so to speak because I've lived through what I now considered to be sort of the classic baroque and modern period of sexism. And I like to outline those were interesting enough I was thinking about the panel last night of as I was driving home I was in wonderful mood I had a couple glasses of wine it was a nice evening it was warm and I started sort of reviewing in my mind all the sexist things I'd run into. And by the time I got home I wanted to deck somebody everybody that I wanted to do I was really angry. And I realized the degree to which I had repressed all those things because if I didn't repress it you you go crazy. You know you simply repress things and you move on. I started out in fact at about age 11 My first ambition in life was to be a pitcher. Major League pitcher and I had a terrific fastball I

broke the forward window the forward and one neighbor and I broke the recreation room window on the other side and at about age 11 or 12 it occurred to me you know great revelation that there weren't any girls on made in Major League Baseball and catfish Rivers was really going to go very far. So I switched to writing because they let girls in that we could we were allowed to do that. And I went to college and after that I went to journalism school believing interestingly enough that what America told me was absolutely right that if you were good and you were talented There were no fetters on you or your ability. My mother who was a lawyer told me something else but I'm not sure it quite registered for a while she said look if you're a woman you've got to be at least half again as good as a man to get where he is you've got to keep that in mind. And I listened but I didn't quite believe that this was American justice would be done. And I got a job when I was out of. Of Columbia Journalism School in a small paper as we all did in the process of reporting managed to pick up a couple of national awards and then I

decided it was time to move. And I went back to my hometown of Washington and began to look for a job. And one place I went first present was to the National Observer it looked like the kind of paper I like to work for and I was ushered in to see the managing editor a charming gentleman who looked at my book of clips and looked at my wards and said to me Well you know we don't hire women but I'd like to have you as a secretary. And I was stunned absolutely stunned at this because I'd never heard it happen but I didn't really believe it would happen. So I walked out and I repressed but I did I got mad for a while but if you can stay me. So I then managed to get a job at a small bureau and reporting out of Washington and at one time tried to get into the Newsweek and Time bureaus and was told again absolutely not no way with the door be open. And I sort of watched as you know these guys fresh out of Harvard Yale who couldn't cover a good sewer hearing you know got the jobs that I was not even

allowed a crack at. And I. But the interesting thing was that as these things were happening I knew they were unfair. But I never thought to protest in any organized way I mean I knew it was unfair but that was the way the world was. And you had to you had to go on with it. One time that I. A great revelation to me at one point and John Barrowman stole my anecdote this morning so those of you who are at that point I'll repeat it briefly. One day I was assigned to cover Carl Roland who was then head of us Ira and I was good to a day with caron so I was. He was to speak at the National Press Club which at the Times was the mid 60s did not admit women members. And interestingly enough at the Press Club there's a big hall where famous people come to speak it was always a news event. They had a nonmember press table for male reporters who were not members of the club could sit and eat. Women had to sit in the balcony. We couldn't even sit at the nonmember press table. So I was a company car roll and off I went to

the balcony and I was sitting there the goose for a while when you had to lean over the pole and all these male reporters were where they were writing away particularly with Carl Rowan said how he was growing up in middle Tennessee one of the things that really galled him was how the local movie theater. He had to go sit in the balcony. I saw him go. And they were writing right now and in all the sun it occurred to me you know guys here I am. We know you won't even let my body on the floor I'm in the balcony. And what I realize from this is there were two kinds of discrimination there was there was important discrimination in those days that was something was done to blacks and there was trivial discrimination that was anything done to women and white liberal reporters would take things very seriously in their in their columns about what was happening in the south. But it was a big joke when women were discriminated against. And I have found that this is one of the things that's the most pervasive is that there is a widespread attitude that things that men do are important and things that women do are trivial and it's the key I think to why the

women's movement was at first such a big joke bra burners ha ha ha editors could not simply imagine that things that women do did in the public way could be serious. Well that was one of the classic sexist era. Then we graduate I think to the Baroque era in which the women's movement appeared on the surface. New attention had to be paid in the media because it was something it was happening it was an event it couldn't be ignored. And then I began to run into new kinds of situations. And it was sort of the fear on the part of media managers they knew they had to cover it but they didn't quite know know how and they were scared to death to deal with it. At one point I was part of a women show at a local television station and we had a terrific budget of $100 a show to get to go on and and do our thing. And one show that we planned was on women's liberation. Well for some reason everybody on the station absolutely panicked.

It was a very modest little show. We were all moderate nobody came in in combat boots in karate we were all just very restrained very conservative. And when I went off the set with the president of the Corporation I had never seen before ever. I was waiting right there he breathed this tremendous sigh of relief he said. Least you want to read. And you know that he could be so threatened by this harmless little show. Astounded me. And later I was asked to moderate the show. And by the producers who were women and higher higher ups said no and they said why not in the reason given was that I wasn't warm and loving enough and that I might threaten people. And I was I was sort of fun but I've been bringing my kids I say look you know Steven Lissa tell them you know your mommy is one woman. So that was you know it it was incompetent it was sort of flattering effect to her I was a nice little girl from a parochial school to be thought threatening

wasn't in a way rather flattering but it was very peculiar. We went through that phase of of trivializing of not really being accepted and now we have sort of graduated into sort of the modern face of sexism there was a period there were every publication had to have its big article on the women's movement suddenly if you wrote about women's issues they were calling you they were saying write for us you were in demand. Now I sense and I think I sense it particularly because as a freelance magazine writer I deal with a number of markets and I have to have sort of sensitive antenna up as to what editors are looking for and what I worry about now is in the minds of media people. First of all the women's movement the women's story is passe. And I'm afraid that as far as the media goes we will go the way of Appalachian when have you last. You know at one point in the 60s a coal mine or an Appalachian would walk out her door and there would be the New York Times API UPI and Reuters and all

saying how is it to live here in Appalachian. It's not written about today. And I am sensing this in editors people are saying this is last year's story. I'm also sensing the kind of insensitivity I'll give you an example. I have recently done a story that deals with sexual harassment. And one section of the story dealt with a couple of women who are working as cocktail waitresses. And the reason they were working on that is because they were. The poor women. And that's the only job they can get that pays them halfway decently they have both have kids who have learning disabilities and one of the reactions from the editor was that let us downplay that those particular women because after all don't women who take those kind of jobs ask for that kind of treatment harassment. And another editor said well could those who have gotten jobs as domestics and then they would have to deal with this kind of harassment you know that kind of issue. I'm just I was a lost for words I sort of spluttered on the other end of the wire I couldn't you know deal with that very effectively in in in a few minutes.

So this kind of thing is happening. I also have a sense that there's ghetto was ation going on. You know OK let's put the women show on 6:00 a.m. Sunday right after the black news and then we get the gays in right after them. And another thing I find I have to fight in this is interesting is now when I find myself thinking gee I gotta stop writing about all this stuff about women and do some hard stuff and some of that thought flashed into my head and I say weird that come from. And I know where it comes from it came from all those years of being you know listening to the values of journalism that were pounded in my head. This is what's important and this is what's not important. And I'd like to finish with a line from Sally Kant in that I run into it which she says you know how do you fight an enemy who has outposts in your own head. I think it's a good question. Now I'd like to turn to to Ellen Ellen Goodman who is our national treasure as Rod McLean said last night her ears must have been ringing. Ellen as I'm sure

you all know is a nationally syndicated columnist who writes on issues involving our society as a whole broad spectrum men women children or just about any issue that our society is concerned with. Ellen has written on it she's been a columnist for The Boston Globe. She is now writing a book dealing with social change. She has worked for newspapers in Detroit and she's worked for news magazine so she sort of has I think a good perspective on not only on media from the inside but on the coverage of the women. And I've also good for spectacle and sexism came with a historical perspective Garland I was saying earlier that we've been on sexism panel since 1969 and things have changed I think as Ed said you know you don't get gold in my air grandmotherly you know mud grandmotherly figure stepped up to the Knesset. Although you do get and I think this is a

significant as wellmost said the New York Times is still referring to the file to the editor of News magazine as Miss. And that is really ironic and I can't understand why the New York Times is the last to drop titles. But I think maybe I'd be interested in true droppings on things that have already been covered talk a little bit about one of the things I think is very significant is that no one has mentioned yet is the fact that what happens because there aren't women in management in journalism. It looks like there are a lot more women in the newspaper now there are a lot of women reporters. And while we while we comprise a very small percentage of the paper like the globe we're very present there aren't a lot of women sitting around the globe waiting for Social Security. You see there by lines in the paper so it looks like there are more of us than there are but there aren't. There aren't. There is one lemon in the daily meeting. And that is the crux of the decision making process of journalism in

the United States. And without. A LITERALLY A and not just anyone but a response of an good journalist sitting in that meeting decisions are made that just don't take into perspective a lot of the things that we've been talking about it isn't even malicious it's just blindness and and the structure of a newspaper I think very much dictates what you see in it. For example the upwardly mobile process by which you become editor of any newspaper in this country. I mean if you did a survey on the newspapers in this country the top editors heart of they get that way. Well they went to City Hall of police speed and then they went to the state house and then they took a little turn in Washington and then they came back to be editor of the paper. Now their entire 20 year career at this point has been covering politics. And then they come back to the paper and guess what they were interested in politics. And if you look at the paper the paper isn't sensually a record of games men play either

politics or sports or business. And again it is in large measure due to the fact that that is what the editors know then that's what they are interested in that's what the early morning meetings say is news. I don't really think that this can be underestimated. After having been at the paper a long time been in newspapers not to mention news magazines. I have forgiven it under the statute of limitations a lot. Of sexism. That I'd like to sell a couple of other things. I've been covering women's conventions women's woman stuff since they were any and a first the coverage was absolutely pits fill. I mean it was really bad. It was I remember the the day of the March what was that woman's 1970 70 with the Boston Globe ran on ran on the front page 50th anniversary of

suffrage huge march all over the country down in the corner they ran a picture of Betty Friedan side by side with someone from feminine follies incorporated in the I don't know whose past and historical anonymity and the caption under it. Oh she was a beautiful blonde. And the caption under the two pictures was which one would you rather be. Take your choice today women. You know I mean stuff like that we really went ape at the paper. And internally we did some organizing to up at that point and we had a great advantage because Bread and Roses went and sat in Tom when ships office and they were a very radical group in Boston who two more or less terrified him so by the time the rest of us came in he was delighted to see us. And our group also was one of the members of our group now in a McCain has has described our radicalism in this way she said. If we had been revolutionaries in the 18th century we would still be riding to King George.

Letters that began about the matter of tea some. Were not really her endlessly radical either. I think I know the basic problem of covering the women's movement is the basic problem of journalism bad coverage is bad journalism is just no way around it same problems. Newspapers are looking for confrontations and that's what they cover. Next week two weeks from now on the 18th they're going to be fourteen hundred forty two delegates to the First National Women's Conference since 1848. There are going to be six hundred forty three members of the press in Houston. Now why are these the why is the press covering Houston it isn't because they're tremendously interested in the twenty six point national plan of action which is in itself interesting. But they're down there because it Phyllis Schlafly has said this is going to be end of the women's movement. It looks like this is a fight shaping up between on line are between the radical right and everybody

else down there and the media's going to be looking again for the fight instead of for the substantive stuff. But journalism as a whole it isn't just broadcast journalism does a lousy job of analysis and what's going on requires analysis because what's going on is change. And when I think of the women's movement I tend to think I think tend to think of that term quite literally as the movement of women from one way of life to another. And the most basic movement has been into the job force I mean statistically the biggest movement has of women has been back to work. And we've never really figured out a way in journalism to cover emotions. I mean it's a dirty word. If you sit into that early morning meeting and you cover and you mention feelings and I don't mean the how do you feel now that your six children were just murdered. But I mean the genuine feelings that people have when they go through a period of change their concerns about their families and so forth. We don't really know how to do it. And I also

think this is bad business you know bad food newspaper business we're losing readers newspapers are losing readers in the 20 to 30 year old range. And frankly the latest studies show that the people who are not reading the most least likely to read it are two parent working families. Now the theory behind that has been that the two parent working families just too busy to pick up a paper yackety yack yack. I don't buy that at all. I think that newspapers are just so geared still to issues that nothing to do with the realities of their lives. All these study said the newspaper should be much more involved in how to helping people coping etc. consumerism. And there is no attempt at all to look at some of the problems that families who are living in New London New ways are dealing with. We don't have to hire or find childcare. We don't have. We're still very geared to

traditional family coverage which brings me to. One other thing we have since no one mentioned since the beginning of the women's room most of newspapers have changed their quote women's page and quote To quote living hyphen people hyphen style hyphen. Today hyphen whatever euphemism for women's pages they're now using and the notion behind it is fine. Come the revolution. The notion behind it is that it's a good section for features and it shouldn't be sexist. Lord knows why should it only be devoted to women. But in effect what has happened in the newspapers that have put that policy in is that you have less news about women in the women's page without a balance being righted in the news hole so that you have oh on the whole less being written about women than

previously. And I have some deep reservations for that reason about the switch that's going on. About the change in the coverage of the women's movement itself I'm steaming along here. At first it was real gee whiz stuff. You know there is the feminist standing up there. Now what's happened. And if I read this one more time every single woman whatever she does is now asked to give her opinion on the women's movement. What happens is that you know Sally Jones who's driving a truck on Interstate Loblaw is interviewed. First Woman truck driver story that's another thing you know we have gotten to the point now where we are into first lefthanded Blue-Eyed you know red haired anythings skin and I'm sick of some of those first woman stories which don't say anything real anymore. But now every woman is being asked. Whether she's a feminist and the reaction to Sally Jones as she's stepping up to reduce oil rig

by generally by the male reporter is oh no I like to keep my hair combed. And the lead of the story then reads Sally Jones may run a diesel truck but she's no feminist dot dot dot she says. I mean that's a lot of garbage. Just reverse a lot of the questions that are asked. Go up to Senator Kennedy some day and say oh how do you manage your career and your family. And are you related. I'd love to do that story. And are you. You know are you really a male chauvinist. Tell us the truth and this kind of thing. You know the sort of the sort of insulting personal question that some of the women cabinet members get all the time and it's embarrassing to me as a journalist. You know we have I think sexism is bad journalism in the sense that anything

which limits you which distorts your vision and distorts your powers of observation makes you a rotten reporter. That's a broad condemnation I guess. One of the things that has happened is that because of our sexist outlooks we haven't seen literally seen some of the big stories the biggest story in this country in my opinion at the moment is the family. I mean everybody is concerned about the families the social policies of being allegedly rewritten with that in mind I mean the family is a very very big story and we're not really covering it in a sensible or realistic way. My other my other outraged comment would be I think newspapers have been over time and I think newspapers have. How to under to the anti abortion lobby in an unconscionable way and it's

outrageous to me. I still go back in talking about this that the basic problem is the same. What you need is the continuing input of of sensitive women in management positions where the editors have to face them every day where they have to be listened to and they have to be explained to personal dynamics. Newspapers are such that they can have a very powerful effect. Editors are always going around and sort of confused by saying what is it women want anyway how should we cover a woman's story anyway. And there's really no shortcut because the only way to cover it is to make good news judgment to report it well and to write it objectively. Thank you Alan. Here I'd like to ask you to. And Peter Strauss has is now the director of The Voice of America fairly recently appointed of the U.S. Information Agency which means that

he is in essence our the keeper of our image abroad and he has a long and distinguished career in media and media management. He is president of Strauss Broadcasting Group. And in this capacity he's done weekly programs which linked CIA and the BBC with these There's a link between those two. His awards include one from the Harlem lawyers association that had his awards here a little bit too numerous to mention but I won't go through them all. But I'll just introduce you Peter. Thank you. And you make one disclaimer and one correction from my I am the recently appointed director of The Voice of America and I appreciate the introduction here but it is important to note both for reasons of Carter Mondale guidelines on conflict of interest and because of the substance of the case that the president of the Strasse communications group are sitting back there her name is Ellen Strauss.

I am not I apologies Alan. It may be an infection from the surroundings. The Boston University academic surroundings but I can't help but think in terms of specifics and perhaps specific suggestions that those of us in the media ought seriously to consider for the future to improve the situation that we've all been deploring and I think unfortunate going to have to continue to deplore for some time. Let me try a crack at least act for specific areas that I think particularly with respect to broadcast journalism should have the burden or the benefit of serious consideration of the part of those of the room and indeed and part of the media to change things. In addition to the point that woman's got Heidi brings up about vocabulary. I think there are four others that we can. A den of fire as areas of really very great importance on which we can make some progress should be immediately won. Numbers

obviously numbers of women in positions of responsibility is and continues to be an enormous problem and it is very hard to understand why because we've really seems to me run through and out of most of the obvious arguments the same arguments that have been used in the past for blacks and banish Hispanic-American so on. You know they're not interested in journalism they don't really understand it besides they're not of the train and they're hard to get and you know all of that I think we've really been through all those arguments and whatever the source of the resistance now is it doesn't have any very great intellectual rationale to number one. It's just plain numbers. Ellen says it exactly right that you have to get past the tokenism thing in order to infect not just the stories that turn out but in fact the thought process that goes into the assigning the editing of those stories. That's an easy and simple one simple want to identify maybe harder to fix. There is another one that applies particularly to broadcasting and perhaps even especially more to television

and radio. It is our tendency in the broadcast media to accept the two like the appearance rather than the fact. That is to say woman whether a person. Even better if she has a Hispanic surname. And that's a twofer. And that and so look what you've done. You know we go see what's on the screen we say well look half the people on the screen but half the people on the screen are the anchor persons are male and the weather persons and people read in stock market reports sometimes and certainly doing the woman's piece the softies other women. Yes that's but that's adding that unequal weights and looking at numbers so we are a little hung up on the appearances. And I think you have to go behind that and begin to worry about substantive assignments as between male and female. Somewhat connected to that appearance business is one other thing that's because you're going to broadcasting.

It is the consequence of government regulation broadcasting as you know licensed by the federal government is subject to some some constraints some legal and constitutional constraints that print journalism is not including in respect of Equal Employment Opportunity Employment women minorities and so on. Annual reports a whole lot of things. There's an interesting and I think somewhat counterproductive thrust of this body of law and it is the reaction of the broadcast management. Many of them in the United States who say What do you mean we don't employ enough women we just sent our report into the FCC and they said it looks great. Right. So you have 11 percent women employed you know in some community and it's up from last years 10 percent. So the commission doesn't make a stink about it and proudly that broadcast management sits on its record saying that's actually fine we've done the necessary. So it is an

interesting consequence of the fact that theoretically we're supposed to conform to a somewhat more rigorous standards in broadcasting because it's a license medium. In fact I think what is supposed to be the floor tends to become at least a kind of a squishy ceiling. It's a problem we have to do something about. Finally and this may be the one that's the most difficult to grapple with but it requires a lot of thought on the part of media management and indeed editors and journalists on the broadcast side. It has to do with the general. The title of the topic is homogeneity. It has a bit to do with the fact that television and radio are rather one dimensional. You're either for or you're against it. It's either going to rain tomorrow or it's going to be sunny. We are either at war or at peace in the Middle East. That's the way we cover stories in broadcasting. Now the trouble with

that is that it tends to have only one dimension to a whole lot of issues. You either ask Sally Jones comma truckdriver comic how she feels about rape or feminism or you don't get her views on anything. In fact and this is something that I believe editors male and female around the country but male particularly would do some useful thinking on. In fact I believe that it is not sexist to say that there is very likely a rather interesting woman's focus as distinguished from men's focus on issues like. Economics space exploration war and peace goodness knows we have never gotten beyond that we are so in kind of stage a one where we're talking about whether there are enough women and whether they should be covering General stories as distinguished from recipes. We

haven't gotten to the stage and I think in very large measure in broadcasting where we not only accept that there are generic stories that have to be covered by somebody of either gender but that there indeed go beyond that and there are some women's movement women qua women's views about topics that are not that are not the feminist movement that are not that are general topics affecting the future of mankind. War and Peace is the classic. And there may be some some aspects of that which is special to women and for that you need additional staff you need additional approach. And you know the sensitivity that that is comes to is very rarely in broadcasting that things don't are not one dimensional not even in color TV not one dimensional. Probably you can subsume one of the best with that old thing that HL Mencken said about the role of the press being to comfort the afflicted and afflict the comfortable when he said it I think he had that in

mind. Everybody else out there and we were the media over here and the comfortable that we were supposed to be afflicting where the vote was presumably then the wealthy and the affluent able think we have to include in this day and age when we discuss sexism the role of afflicting the comfortable including ourselves something that Ed diamond and Ellen Goodman do very well from time to time. Why. Thank you Peter. I'd like to open this up now to questions from the floor. Last.

Week you. Were. Right. Right. Right. OK but some who may not be aware of of the issue Wilma looking at the panel quite rightly stated in her state before the plenary session noting the small number of women on the panels the small number of minority representatives the small number of whom was the nonexistent representative the homosexual community the poor community and made a statement before the plenary session. The women on the faculty decided not to sign the statement for internal political reasons there's been a lot of internal political fighting around Boston University and we felt that the state would become to be much stronger and be taken more seriously were it if it

came from Wilma and outside person we had a sense that if we signed it the interpretation from inside would be political. However we did support it I strongly supported Wilma's right to speak. And when she asked for those who stood at the end to support her statement I did so. Right. I. Am. Using. My. Right. Hand. Yeah. Right. Back. Right right. Right. Right. Yes. Very. Right. Right now right here. Sixty.

Three. And. Why are you here. Right right. OK. I'll. Catch. You. Your. Heart. May. Be. Reading this. Book. Yeah. Right. You're right. It's not. Very. Pretty. Tight right. You have. The right are you. Oh. There. Are. Projects. I'm. READY I'M. Ready. Yeah. Good or bad. Just very bad. Thanks. Oh I.

Like. To start on that. I just like to say this much about I was thinking about saying that and I was going to run too long in opening remarks. There is certainly enough sexism to go around in in in the U.S. media but I think that one can allege that. What the the women's movement makes a mistake if it in attributes or bad coverage to sexism bad coverages and lousy journalism and a very large part of what goes wrong is it is bad journalism not sexism and the reason that the distinction is important that's one with green distinctions important as you treat with one somewhat differently than the other. You do they are they are parts of the same problem but I think you are tapping somewhat differently. Well when I hear about the statements here and elsewhere that the

problems are the problems of journalism and that it goes beyond or deeper than sexism. I think it reflects quite candidly a misunderstanding or a lack of understanding how sexism goes. Journalism has been and is still if we're going to change is primarily based on the tenets of patriarchy and particularly white patriarchy in this country. And so precisely because of that we do have the either or orientation of what Peter Strauss was referring to and we miss some of the subtleties of the things that are neither either or or not clearly that and precisely because we see that coverage of the women's movement should cover only those things that are well I mean obviously and most predominantly identify with it like the Equal Rights Movement a woman's right to control her body and so forth and don't see that feminists are indeed whether we've heard from feminist

or not in the general media are speaking to issues of poverty of population or world affairs and everything all human issues. But essentially if we look at the world I don't think any of us in conscience in terms of what is demonstrably done human so it can deny the fact that in the media and all of our other social institutions it is not only numerically dominated by men but I'm male oriented in Endor centric kind of thinking. So one should not be surprised that even in a paper such as the man back here just mentioned even if the numbers are changed it is still true that women have to get into journalism by accepting at least implicitly certain kinds of tenets. Now increasing numbers of them are not accepting this at least done in their writing. But they as Alan has mentioned they don't necessarily get to decide what's going to be covered and how it's going to be covered. The figures that that Glenn mentioned to us earlier in terms of

surveys and I and she's quite accurate in these and also I'm glad she mentioned it is responsibility of journalism for instance to inform us of the consequences of oppression. That's one of the tragedies that the people most oppressed whether it's women or minorities or gays or the poor. As a matter of survival psychological economic social and otherwise come to accept or act as if accepting what are the predominant value systems of society. And I think that we we missed very much if we don't see precisely because of the predominant value system. We do see journalism this bad Furthermore I think feminism not only offers a critique of what is obviously bad journalism but much that is still considered good journalism. And we miss we missed this if we aren't aware of this and we aren't going to find out about it if we go to the what

Bob Maynard referred to at lunch as the easy handout the kinds of information that is readily and neatly available. These are some of the these are some of the kinds of things I think helped to explain this we simply cannot say that the women's movement is confined to and addresses only the ones that the general media still thinks of as part of the women's movement. All human issues in this country in the world are being addressed whether or not people generally know about or not it's responsibility of the media to help make that known. When I think you want to respond you know just briefly I don't think anyone would argue that women are by means of some special genetic component or whatever more compassionate than men innately or wiser than men innately. And I think until you have quantities of women in decision making positions in the news hierarchy you can't predict what the outcome of their perspective on the news is going to be.

I remember the days when I was first the only woman reporter in the newsroom and then one of two women reporters in the newsrooms and the battles that we head with management over stories that we were assigned to cover. You can only battle so far when you're a reporter and your Simon editors a man in the sales director's a man in the program directors a man and a vice president for news isn't that so. I just said one just at one sentence I you know when was the only woman the same and I was the only mother. I was the only mom through the process to have a young child for maybe five years of a baby you know. And and one of the things newspapers does worst is cover the children and one of the reasons is that nobody there was taking care of the children have sought it from me and I don't mean that you know either women of terrific people but God knows we've all worked for you know women a lousy news judgment.

I also agree that if you've grown up in a system you could have a newspaper without a feminist perspective let's say that there was a hundred percent women that also followed the general pattern. All I'm saying is that if you don't have the people who live a certain way if they don't have input into the paper you're not going to have the stories because they're just invisible. Bill worthy. And. If they. Don't we. Don't. Know. Why. Really. What I think. Why. Would. I think. I am. Now. We're in. A. While. Yeah. Right. Big victory coming on. Now.

That. The. Great. White. And. The other woman or or or her or her going. Over that. Very. Soon you know if you were to. Actually. DELEGATE. And. Oh I. Have my own way. And it has already been me knowing that there are more well known. Them. All of. The few that. Even. Know. Implicitly or what I've come to that I don't know. And. I wonder whether. They might. Now. Right. And you may have read. It. Every. Time. You think.

Oh boy. Benefit from your. FACE. Never. Mind A. Thing I'm not going to. Read. This. First. But sick of being manipulated. Business interest. Financing. Writing. It. Down and I thought I kept on the right but I was. I don't know. Whether or. Not. The 55 mile an hour limit. Oh. If I only. Heard. It was. 10. We're both pretty early one day and. The real reason being the economic impact. And. Founding moment. Better to go on the way to. The right every. Little. Bit. There. You know I think. You know I really have serious doubts. Right now our. Kids are. There. You're.

Really. We're. Going to. Win we will start. OK first of all I think I think no one should be surprised that at the beginning of this rebirth of feminism that most of the people participating were middle income which I preferred a class and and were white. Part that were that I think that we would be vulnerable if those of us who had gotten past survival requirements had not taken initiative. So I don't accept that the reality is that the the makeup of the people who identify with some for them far with the movement has never been what the media has characterized it. And it is also changing very much more than people know in 1974. We survey the membership of now and like you should know by the way I am not speaking for now at this point. I'm I'm speaking as an individual and I speak about the organization but I don't

pretend to be the spokesperson for it. And we found that 11 percent of our membership and 974 were minority women and some men and some children. Now that is not quite what is the minority demographic makeup of the population but it was more than we realized. It is also true something else and this is only one example. My predecessor as PRESIDENT No I didn't Hernandez a black woman from San Francisco at the time she was president. People were interviewing minority women around the country what they thought of the women's movement and it was fascinating that nobody after the president of the world's largest feminist organization who was black what she thought. Or any other officer. Or person who was functioning as a state officer or a chapter officer who was minority women. And this is symbolic of some other things. Now something else in terms of the International Women's Conference I've been very active in this I've been very active in international women's year before there was an International

Women's Year in bringing something of this sort about I am a delegate for East and I'm going now one of the things that is true. At no other conference I know of where there's been public money involved in this really a very modest amount for over a period of years namely five million dollars under with enormous obstacles to even get in it. And no other one has there been written into the law and conscientiously applied an attempt to get a demographic representation with a particular focus on minority women 35 percent 35 percent of the delegates either elected or appointed will be minority women that is beyond what is true in the population. And I support that but the fact that it is applied only to this instance of a National Women's Conference. I think a case could be made that there alone is sexism. Now let me tell you something about the used in-conference. We have information documented already that there are major news magazines that have already written the outlines of their story whoever it was said of course. OK

10 years ago and I guess we're supposed to fill up the scenario in terms of the Mississippi delegation you told delegation to some extent some of the other delegations. They were they were infiltrated by the extreme right. I don't consider it radical because radical to me means quite literally getting to the sources the origins of the root cause a problem so I code extreme in 1074 at the now conference we were visited by the Ku Klux Klan with threatens threats on our life in terms of whether we continued or not and we have the documentation of that I was one of the people who received some of the threats. This has been infiltrated some of the delegations overwhelmingly by the right wing. But here again this is where the media has not only responsibility but an opportunity now you ask whether Now another organizations is up to the challenge or not. I don't know but I do know this. I know that this movement is very young 10 11

12 years old. No more than 15. And I saw it when I worked in what we saw the so-called anti-poverty movement in this country that there was a great proclivity to evaluate things millions of dollars going to evaluate something that had hardly gotten off the ground. No we haven't done everything yet. We haven't addressed all the issues that we'd like to in substitute ways. But I think the fact that for the most part what has been done in this movement has been done by private individuals on our private time with our private funds resources energy and talents is truly remarkable. And much of it has been done in spite of the well entrenched institutional resistance I think we need to look at what we have done and look at the trends in terms of where we're going. And clearly this movement is reaching more and more people women men and children. No. I think my Actually what I said she said quoting

herself was Games men play journals and apply which is to say that they are covering men plying them. Not that I wasn't criticizing you know itself. I was criticizing the fact that when we talk about tall tix what are we talking that we're talking about you know almost exclusively the personality politics which is another issue and almost exclusively male personalities and sports which by the way I mean one of the great stories really that we've talked about this is what's going on with young women sports. But that isn't being covered so it's still the games that men play. The. Worse they are when you look at your average op ed page and you see let's say six pieces on an op ed

page and 5 of those pieces at least have in it are dealing with let's say during the lance crisis Carter and Lance you know I mean they're all dealing with exactly. God knows there's more going on in the world then than that specific thing and they're all writing about exactly the same issues all the time and they're always writing about personality politics. But if you said what I said because I was one of those editors of the nose at the same time of the lands here in the Carnegie Commission on Children issued a report. Ken Ken Astin was involved in a product of several years of work very talented people and I had personal reasons I what I try to look at all the media coverage but I look at this coverage particularly and this is as Owen says the major story when you talk about alcoholism divorce run away run away

children truancy. These are all family problems and this is a story that is not being covered now here was a beautifully or beautiful report very well orchestrated news conferences three things the whole you know you hand the guys the and the women the press kit and everything. And Alan is absolutely right. We were getting Bert Lance and Jimmy Carter day after day kind of rehashing the same old material and an important part that cuts close an important story the cut cuts closely was a 24 hour finale. I'll just give you the theory of why since it's the entertainment business politics is entertainment sports is entertainment and the way we cover other things as entertainment and the family isn't entertainment. It's divorce it's alcoholism it's runaways it's impotence and it's not funny. And it isn't easy and there are no heroes or villains and it's women's work and it's women's work and it's a 24 hour story and it's what Ellen you learn the

phrase from me it's a room empty or write down or anything. And we don't. We don't want it very much. And whether that's sexism in fact I don't think that all of Rumi endure anymore. I mean I read it when I read about the family and there are lots of international ones it was a Roman emperor of the editors and the F the story conference. It is showing the opposite of that in the biggest response that you get as a as a writer is when you do write about the family and it's ironic you just can't get through when you have a good example of a related story recently was I think it was a U.S. Civil Rights Commission which came on the story and images of women and minorities on television. What got picked up on that story was that the group criticized the Mary Tyler Moore Show because Mary Tyler Moore always called her boss Mr. Grant and never Lou and it was just one example of a pattern. They were trying to trace showing women always in subservient positions but what I saw in the media was people pulled that out of context and said Isn't this stupid this beloved

show. You know the whole focus of that report which had really you know great content was on one example pulled out of content and made to look ridiculous. I'd say we're all entertainers but you know we take those are our responsibilities. As and as educators as people passing on information until enough of us inside can push for the other functions of the media aside from the entertainment ones we're going to be left with Mr Grant when I just wanted to respond. Here you've got to start to answer Bill's question add one more thing to Bill's question and I'm going to set around here. You brought up the issue of minority women in now and I think that's almost a red herring I would hate to leave it with that in focus. I think the proportion of minority women in now is truly the least of their problems right. I suggested earlier that the leadership of the women's movement is in danger of being cut off from the body of women. I think that's true and I think as you say a conservative

backlash maybe the knife that does it. I think it's the body of average if you'll excuse the word women out there. Not Phyllis Schlafly in her little band of concerned hit women but just ordinary women who are not following the women's movement who do not see it as their movement who aren't buying the act. It's right. That you. Have. To be. Part of that stereotype. I'm. Better than ever. That. Took place. At the first. Aid that. Has. Been. Made. That. Was. The basis of a just. Going to show our. Students for. This. Question. They were it would yes. It was a. Big.

Deal to do. With. It. This man. Was. Going to. Make. Me. What the service was and tell us to various subtle. Differences. I was. First. Universities. Where. It was. Used. In terms of as you said. You can get. Shot of that. Kitchen. That you. Have. Been shot. Which makes you think. You know I have. My share. The first. Truck driver. Story. That we have to go. In. Here. Might have a footnote on this was very interesting when about a year and a half ago I wrote an article for The New York Times magazine called Can a woman be married liberated was about essentially centering on the question staying on my marriage in which my husband and I sort of split up childcare and work and they sent a photographer out to take pictures and as I was talking to the photographer I got the

strangest vibes enough first to want Allan in the kitchen with the dishes and second will want Alan you know washing up the kids and third we won and and sudden have say No wait a minute. In an effort to get to get up tight his you know I I do other things besides housework. But it was sort of a reverse and suddenly all they could focus on was isn't this to repeat here is a man who is Do you know who's going to willing to be photographed Washington who sometimes washing a dish and they wanted to make him a happy home maker and you know he also you know it is a journalist a writer he does all these other things. But that was that same perception that this was so overwhelmingly new that you know the response was sexist sort of in the other direction. It's very peculiar but it's also from what Cal said Which way do you go. I mean People magazine has everybody in the kitchen or jogging again that writer who finds a bit of a family to working together that I think the New York Times doesn't have anybody in any kitchen anywhere.

You know what do you want do you want. It depends are you doing the sort of personality profile where it's appropriate to ask the name and or the woman you know what what kinds of personal arrangements they have or are you doing. Work story and in which case it's not appropriate to ask either. But it's not just a question again of stopping asking women all those questions and my truck driver comment was. Relevant to the assumption that she was being interviewed because she was a truck driver and or because she was say the union the new union president or something in those circumstances it is I think gratuitous to start questioning her attitudes on down isms. Gentlemen you're. Going to. Have a copy of the report I simply you know I heard from the firm people

about the report but what I was reacting to was what I read in the newspapers which was incredibly trivialized I did not personally read the whole report. No I think you know they'll send a teacher request it. You can just send us to be sure. That you share the FCC says but I can tell you this Michigan writes will make it available and report by the way with some women and minorities. It was a window dressing in effect. What. He's been really yet. Oh yeah here you come love this last. One. Was. Fun.

Well you know that's serious. There's no right to advertise. You do say no you don't like the New Yorker won't take certain ads. New York Times won't take X-rated film at you just you have an avatar. You just have never talking Department says no it's the very simple word but it takes a lot of courage. Is that satisfies an. Address that I have. If I understand your point you talking about sexist imagery coming across an advertising copy I think there are two points worth worth ending one that all the research that I've seen on the seven last two three years

suggests that it is progressively less productive and so you begin to see less of that. Even National Airlines gave up didn't they have to and they didn't give up because of any great principle with all due respect to Miss Heidi the rest they say they give up because they weren't filming airplane seats without advertising. So I think it is becoming less effective. But the other way is that is classically an area in which an organizational effort pays off at a very high leverage. In other words. Unlike the problem of getting more people into the more women in the media and the rest which is a longish fight and one has to be continued. Getting sexist advertising out of newspapers or television or fear out of magazines or billboards is a street organizations. I mean 23 letters to the chairman of the board you know and it's as simple as that. That I think is a really direct action thing and direct action on that subject is highly effective.

Like a Pro Right to Life organization is very effective here but it doesn't mean the good guys can't use it. Yeah that's what. I don't care at all that that woman is also employed men doesn't make the any better but the image is a change because the reality is change begins with the whiskey bottles the ring around the collar when I you know I'd like to burn those boxes for someone who hasn't asked for. It could you pick up a little bit you could to take care. Of you. Oh. I. Can. What. Was. That.

Yeah. OK. Yes then who did you talk with on the phone just out of curiosity. Yeah sure they can do that. They can be changed. All right but you better be prepared to devote some serious and consistent long term effort and practically sacrifice your first born daughter to making the change. Yeah they can be change without being self-serving I think Channel 5 is very open to public criticism of its news and its public affairs formats. And I think that if you really make you know a strong consistent effort to changing that kind of thing that we're very receptive to it. But again the real question is why didn't this kind of thing occur to us on our own without someone practically breaking our kneecaps to to get us to do it. And we haven't reached the point yet where stations think in these terms even though we still have our one or two news reporters in every newsroom we don't think in those terms unless it's

forced on us so force it on us in television too is one thing which intrigues me Susan Sontag has written about the double standard of aging. And I think we see this very much in the media I look around and I see perhaps Shana Alexander is the only middle aged woman who looks averagely middle aged not like a super glamour movie star who is you know a commentator on to now possibly I wonder what's going to happen when this current crop of you know say 28 year old or 32 year old women News commentators start to age. And one thing that frightens me is I've heard rumors about one of them that she's planning a facelift. Because she's going to look too old on television. The middle aged woman does not appear for the most part you know. We now can accept young lovely women who are ornamental and bright but we know we can accept guys with Jug years and who are bald and I wonder when we will be able to accept women who look middle

aged and average and that's that has says a great deal it may seem trivial but it says a great deal to women about what society values. For you this is that we get some back here. For. Me. AS. The. First. Very few role models I. Have. My male teachers are terrific. Cheryl was. I am laughing. When you. Said. You know. The possibility the only. Different alternative. To. A life. The way I did learn in politics those things I. Made. And I forget. Things that I do have. Let's try that. Come from another direction. Women like. You. Make. Me. Remember and I.

Hope. That. It's not you. And it's so nice like you just use it right now how did that for the most just getting in the air for reading I think that Wilma wishes to address for a minute the question of the Fairness Doctrine. Yeah I start when I think one is in there in the context of the role models and so forth one of the things I'm very much aware of and I feel not responsible for I didn't mention is that the people who are change agents generally in the movement take enormous risks. I'm not alone in this. So this is not a plea in my own behalf I can I hope pretty well take care of myself. But the people who are most instrumental in change and have enormous amounts to offer are generally pretty unemployable. And I'm asking you just to spread that word around for whatever it's worth. People who have had nothing to do with the movement are the ones who generally

get some kind of job do something. Now this does not mean they don't have talents and so forth but those who offer change in human interest have been knocked off for now on the fairness doctrine. It is up as you may have you may remember from Dr. Parker's remarks yesterday for change. The FCC really has not applied the 934 Fairness Doctrine as it was never really grapple with it but also the concept of fairness I think has to be looked at differently then when we have a program on AEK subject that we're going to have several different viewpoints. Generally a pro and con and there are more of the points in pro and con generate on that particular issue at that time. What I'm suggesting that we think about is people even an interest in the media and critique people who make the kids who the media is I think we have to look at it profoundly differently that we must look at it in the context not only of X program of a half

hour an hour or series three hours whatever it is but in the context of what's the overall programming at this broadcasting station and in the context of a culture that is and I'll use simplified language essentially straight affluent white and male. And that is how I think if we're serious about a Fairness Doctrine apply fairly that we can begin to have change otherwise we're going to do. Symptomatic kinds of things. Fairness in the context of a single program is simply not adequate. OK I think we have time for one more question is it. No of course. You'll. Get to. How I like. It all and I'll. Follow. That. Story.

Oh. How much time we have going to happen overnight not only a newspaper for the broadcasting station and I've written about this in terms of feminist public affairs programming but I think I don't know if I can really answer your question I guess what I suggest is that. Well let me put it this way I suppose that this wouldn't be about women per se but I think what I would do if I had only the story OK to do would be make the case for the need for people in the media to happen.