Public Television Hearings

I see it takes you all the time in the water all the time you want but just don't care where you can run a railroad I mean don't think like me but I'm going to log it's 12 o'clock I'm going and these klieg lights you know come on when I come here at ten o'clock and I sit here for two and a half hours without moving only because I don't want the lights turned off. I don't want to disrupt the program in any way. I want to make the witnesses comfortable but you've got to realize that I sit here and sit and sit in chat. You don't want to be alone. Do you think. It might be pregnant for the record that I have done about 10 years of research on instructional television. And I might have some responsibility for kind of inventing the term. These were the years 1954 in 1964 under sponsorship of the Ford Foundation. And I am really going to talk from this paper and not read it. All right so I would like to make this a matter of record. There are a few additions and corrections and then perhaps have a little conversation about some points that I think are supplementary and quite important with

special reference to Title 3. The the organization that I represent is the council. That in turn represents a great many educational interest and I only hope that we are reflecting in our statements this morning. The opinions and judgments of these very important education organizations. The term telecommunication is an attempt to include a fairly wide range of media which instruct or communicate at a distance. And we here are strongly emphasizing the possibility not only the kinds of broadcast systems that exist today but probably new ones that might be coming in here. And for example using computers for assisting instruction might require the same kind of telecommunication mechanism Generally however we would like to emphasize a point

that almost none of these media do a complete job. Frequently it is necessary to put them in combinations. And the important problem that we're all working on is what the appropriate media for carrying out certain kinds of functions. And whether it's public television or instructional television or educational commercial or whatnot one of the appropriate combinations sometimes is referred to as the systems approach I think that wraps up to now a definition but it's a question of what do you do with what. To what effect that is important and of interest to us. Now. There's quite a bit of history here on the joint committee and its historic role. I would like to skip pretty directly to Section 3 and read into the record and amended the paragraph from the document which I've submitted. This unfortunately was omitted

and it's the introductory paragraph the Section 3 and what we're suggesting here is a possible rewrite that realize that this may be impractical. All right now you go along slowly. Now you tell me are any all languages beginning under Title 3. It is on the end of their statement. It's a limit to my state and deception Mr. Weyburn statement. Because we're both supporting the same revision. It's the last page. We suggest that the title of Title 3 be a study of instructional television. And radio in relation to other educational media. And the first paragraph. Mr. Chairman would remain the secretary of Health Education and Welfare is authorized to conduct. By contract and in consultation with other interested federal federal

agencies. A study of how and to what extent radio and television parenthesis broadcast close second and point to point microwave transmission. Close parenthesis. In the context of remote access facilities. Computer regulated instruction. Electronic interconnection and satellite communications may be used in instructional learning systems for meeting important educational needs. And then we changed the heading of the next section to objectives of the study and we rephrase these. I can read them if you wish. But if we make this a matter of record they are there for study. I feel generally about this on the background where you are consulted by the drafters of this bill. No it's. Not this committee that I'm speaking for today.

Why I may have in some parts of our organization why did you leave the wood directly out. Part. Why did you leave the wood directly out. I don't know can you leave that out there right directly. Where I stopped reading yours again. This raised the secretary of Health Education and Welfare is authorized to conduct directly or by contract. Now when you read those two lines it's part of your statement. Yes. But haven't you left the word directly out we have we can whine. I think the reason there was that we didn't see this function to be carried out by the U.S. Office of Education a gentleman just said that they have an abundance of studies already on file many and that many of these are done by contract and by crack. No I didn't go that they had an abundance of studies already on file. Well now don't you think they ought to use that. Well we're not opposed to they're doing this directly with Sherman but the point was that we thought it was only realistic with a short staff that they had that they'd only be doing this by

contract. And that they would take into account I was available. You see I'm not debating this I hope this doesn't become a controversy between us. No it's not I mean if they themselves can do something directly and do part of it by contract Why do you leave them out of it and let them utilize the studies that have already been made so as not to go over the ground all over again. They're only in favor of doing all the research regarded in the area project and reported periodic. And I've been working with that committee since 1958 to encourage the study. This is a very important base of information. All right now let's see what you have to say with the rest of the other that you'll be waiting for the objective you would like me to read this. Yes. Section 3 0 2 of the study shall be comprehensive and shall have the following general and specific objectives. One. To ask to make current and future educational needs.

To. To assess the development of telecommunications which are appropriate for meeting these needs. 3. To give special emphasis in the study to the present usage and future potentials of instructional television. For just study and make recommendations on requirements such as people facilities methods and procedures knowledge and research results for significantly improving the effectiveness of instructional programmes prepared for use on television and other media. 5 to specify possibilities and directions of needed media development which shall be supported by the federal government. And. Six to prepare a technical and general report in print for a national distribution in print for national distribution by radio and television stations. I think it's a matter of fact that means to use the several media print radio and television for

distributing the report. Now that constitutes. Our suggestion for a kind of rewrite our time three I'm sure that there are other possible workings. The main point it seems to me here and I believe the committee concurred is that the in the phrasing in the bill. Takes us back. Quite a ways into the research and experience of the past and raises questions as to whether or not we can teach by television and this is been abundantly proved. There are over 300 studies of comparison of instructional television with other kinds of math. The evidence is quite frequently it's a little disappointing because we can't do much better. With the kind of programs that we have. Well I'll say this to you and. It is my.

It is my. Casual off the cuff. Understanding that. Possibly the. Sixth. Section set out in the bill is presently drafted might accomplish what you say but then on the other hand I I take full cognizance of your expertise in this and your argument that this is bringing is back to things that we all recognize and take judicial notice of today. And that for that reason you would look more to the future. Right. I will submit your suggestions to the Health Education and Welfare Department because that's where this bill was drafted. And I shall discuss this matter with the people who drafted the bill so that we can better understand what where object objectives are. And if you need to be consulted further you can rest assured that you will be thinking and though we will give your suggestions very serious thought. I don't mean that they should

be brushed aside at all it should be given some very very serious thought. And. You may be right. And. Chances are they didn't have an opportunity to look at it the way you do. And. We volunteer where where they gathered the background for the six sections that they spelled out of course I'm not familiar with it yet because they were the first witnesses. And since then of course. Many points have been raised a very very relevant and very cogent point. And. I assure you that it will be brought to their attention and see if we can do something with this. Mr. Chairman I would rather see it a little more simplified and yeah I don't see why you need six of these to begin with. Well I think we can say the same year over again in different language or make that make the directive more general make it a very direct objective and let it go at that so that they would have a wide spectrum.

Right. And it might be supplemental to what they're already doing in their research program which is a science of a program going out of growing out of India. The unit I have become somewhat weary of the use of the word particularly always afraid of that for some reason I think that sometime restricted. And they have under this bill authorization of $500000 to do the job that's half a million dollars I think they ought to do a pretty good job. I have one or two other points. Very briefly one is the. Point that I think that the. Use of educational television instructional television assuming that television as a hardware system will do it job frequently gets us in difficulty. And I'd like to point out the fact that these are blank sheets of paper a blank channels until something effective is put through them. Which leads to the next and final general point. But

I think that we need to scale properly the resources that we put back of the preparation of instructional programmes. I'm talking particularly about instructional. Materials. And it seems to me that we are thinking again in terms that are very limited and small. We should think of more than one library. We should think of more than one archive. We probably should think of these on a regional basis. We certainly should capitalise on the effect of materials that have been produced and that are already in existence wherever they are in the world. And bring these into the building of affective programs. And I. Was both an abscess to suggest last week or the week before in Atlantic City. That we probably need need a national compliment up production centers. Beginning with the figures I used off the cuff for 25 million 50 million one hundred million in three successive years sensually doubling in order

to get back. The amounts and qualities of materials that are necessary to do certain important educational jobs some of which were enumerated by my college. Now with that general point I would like to be pretty specific about some wording in the bill if I may. All right Commander and I refer to page 9. Some Part B. Paragraph 1. And I would like to call attention to the fact that instructional purposes occurs in this statement including the use of such media for instructional purposes. But then the word instruction does not appear again. If I read the bill correctly until we get this to Title 3. And I would suggest you go back again. Oh I see you're talking reading now. Lines 10 11 12. Yes on page 9. Will you make loading the use of such media for instructional purposes.

I believe that instructional purposes. Instructional the word instruction does not again occur. I would like I would like to see it included in the purposes and functions of the corporation has to be formed. Well of course it is the thing that I suppose in draftsmanship. Now you're getting into the art of drafting legislation. Your point is that Title 3 is only a study. That's right and once you've determined the study and then you decide what you're going to do then you bring it back in the bill. Yeah. And yet there is one catch all clause on line 12 that includes it. Yeah you can't keep spelling out something that you don't know yet what is going to be. That's right. I guess that's the reason why it was left out. Now if it makes you feel more comfortable if we repeated and repeated again to make sure that in the event that it is determined after the study is made under Title 3 that you have enough authority in the bill itself to include it. I think we'll refer that back to the draft as

well. Yes I think it ought to be put in the purposes because otherwise. I suppose the study comes out the study is a very skeptical kind of study as proposed in the bill. You know you start out and say Should we use it or shouldn't we use it. I think we're going to use it I think it's fair to stead. And I think it's needs improving enormously and extending you would include it on the in somewhere in page 14 as well. Well that's a point we'll consider that but I would hope this that. In talking about educational television we're not going to exclude instructional television that to me that I hope is the more important to our public television. I don't think we should exclude instruction that is right. Now on page 15. To. Line 11. I would like to see add in after production. Production what research and development to be on that line

again I would be 15 to be to be to be that's right. All right I'm sorry line 11. AD after production. Comma research and development on programs. To contract with all make grants to program production right research and development and also. On production. This is an additional activity that many of us think is absolutely essential to the improvement of the quality of instructional materials. I will get into that. Then if I may suggest. Two more small changes page 15 and then line 22. Change the library to libraries and I would like also to accept the suggestion made this morning that we add archives. To these libraries to capitalise on the materials that exist that need to be searched out and

found and made available for use in instruction. And don't you think that that is general enough that if in their discretion they want to maintain more than one. Location or a library that they wouldn't have that authority. And I would hope that they would and I think we do in the lane that report writers and change the wording. Now I strongly approve of Section 8 but on page 16 line 18. Change or two. And. Now with every. Other way to demonstrate such demonstrations and training and training particularly because of the importance of training in this area. And the requirements for very special kinds of training. And then I would like. In line 19 to add instructional after education.

To noncommercial and. Actual education no instructional television or radio broadcasting. And thank you very much. But I want to thank you gentlemen. The benefit of your advice and suggestions. I don't think any two people have lived with this more than you two gentlemen. The Chairman may I say in closing that. I. Would like to offer the services of a J.S. ETN of the NEA to the BW Department and also to this committee. And. Any way we can to be of service to you in implementing this bill we think we'll take a stand and we'll take advantage of that offer and I hope that the AGW will do the same. Thank you. Especially at the price you're offering it. While it is now almost 20 minutes past 12 rather than interrupt the next witnesses we

have Mr. Kenneth Cooper is he here. Can you come back this afternoon. We add Mr. Montgomery is here and you come back this afternoon. We have Mr.. Sculp Bock is that the way you pronounce that. Why does that. Show back when you come back this afternoon. And Dr. Eugene Johnson. Is here. Well maybe back this afternoon. All right we'll recess until o'clock. But. As you heard the senator say the Commerce Subcommittee will resume these hearings at 2 o'clock this afternoon. There were seven groups of witnesses to appear this morning including a brief initial remarks from Senator John Sparkman of Alabama who was here because one of the scheduled witnesses was one of his constituents Senator Sparkman made a few brief remarks then relinquished the witness stand to

the Honorable Antonio be one hat and official representative of the U.S. territory of Guam. He noted that the public TV legislation enacted in 1962 did not allow appropriations for this bill would he noted. And he urged its passage home again and appeared next he was president or is rather President of the Westinghouse Broadcasting Corporation. He said educational television can greatly assist teachers and conversely aid students. He said he feels the title of the bill should be changed from public to the educational Act of 1967. He said there appears a great need for additional talented people in the field of educational broadcasting. He suggested occasional meetings between commercial and educational broadcasters to allow for exchanges of ideas and mutual benefits. He called for more exchanges of programs between and for the use of educational stations by commercial

stations. The third witness was Raymond de Hurlburt general manager of the Alabama Educational Television Commission who outlined the huge operation of each TV in his state. He said that Alabama stations serve not only students but a wide area of the general public. Robert Bice winger president of the Gerald corporation appeared briefly outlining the scope of his company's operation and plugging for the inclusion of sea ATV systems and any interconnection plans of educational television. Similar statements were heard by Irving B Khan president of the teleprompter Corp. another firm which is very much involved in some of the community antenna television systems. You just heard from Dr. Harold winger and representative of the National Educational Association who said that his organization's 1 million members indoor Senate bill 11 16. He feels However the proposed study of instructional television should be broadened to

provide even greater amounts of information than was suggested in the White House draft of the bill. He said he feels educational broadcasters need to provide programs not only for intellectuals but for lesser educated persons as well. He said he feels educational Broadcasting's programming at this time is far too concentrated on the educational and intellectual elite. He said there is more work needed to help provide programs for the quote common man Dr. C. Ray carpenter appeared along with the NEA representative Dr. Carpenter is representing the Joint Council on educational telecommunications as well as Pennsylvania State University. He also expressed concern that the proposed study of instructional TV might not be broad enough. He said over 300 studies have already been conducted on the effect of TV benefits to students and said the study should be referred to in any future government study of the issue.

That was the last remarks before the recess occurred here. They will resume the hearings at 2 o'clock at which time five more witnesses will appear. We might point out that a rather dramatic development is going across the hall here in the new Senate Office Building in Washington. These hearings are taking place immediately across from the office of Senator Thomas died at 12:00 noon. The chairman of the Senate Ethics Committee Senator John Stennis was scheduled to formally release the committee's report on their investigation of Senator Dodd. That report was to be delivered orally on the floor of the U.S. Senate and we assume at this time Senator Stennis is delivering that report at the last word we received from several correspondents for United Press International who came in and it still appears the report will recommend censure of Senator

Dodd although we do not know that definitely at this point. The. Members of the Ethics Committee are scheduling a news conference at 1:00 o'clock in the Senate Radio-TV Correspondents gallery. We will be in attendance to observe then and report back. Senator Dodd left his office a few moments ago amid a flash of cameras both television and newspaper cameras and with a banner a battery of reporters following him. He was then going to the Senate floor at which time he would first hand receive the report prior to leaving his office though Senator Stennis appeared in the office apparently to forewarn him of what was coming. Senator Stennis then left to go to the floor. This drama has all been unfolding in the doorway here. A large crowd of people standing around Dodd's office to find out just what's going to happen to him. We don't know for sure but censure appears highly certain. We mention that these hearings are originating live

from the United States Senate Office Building in Washington D.C. The special coverage is being produced by W am you at film American University Radio in Washington D.C.. And by national educational radio there will be a lengthy recess in the hearings at 12:30 tomorrow at which time General William Westmoreland commander of American forces in Vietnam will lead dress a joint session of Congress. We will provide live coverage of General Westmoreland speech during the recess in these Senate hearings. This is NPR public affairs director Bill Greenwood. I'll return with live coverage of the Senate Commerce subcommittee hearings on the proposed public television Act of 1967 when they resume at 2 o'clock. This is the eastern educational radio network. What's American about American literature. That question is answered from the inside and the outside. Thursday evening at 10:00 Jack Lambert of the Sunday Times as moderator Participants include

Ruben Brower of Harvard and Clinton Brooks U.S. cultural attache in London the main speaker is Marcus Cutler head of American studies at Sussex University. What's American about American literature or Thursday at 10 over WGBH FM eighty nine point seven mega cycles Boston. Good afternoon ladies and gentlemen this is Steve Hayes in the studios of WAMC you Af-Am here in Washington D.C. and this has been our custom all during the hearings. We take the opportunity while a Senate subcommittee is recessing for lunch to present some of the speeches comments.