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The British Broadcasting Corporation presents the OCC Nam the 20 a war a series of three documentary programs. This third program is subtitled The earth now and the world and it was introduced by Roderick with farka editor of China quarterly in the past two of these three programs we've recounted what happened in Vietnam after the Second World War and try to give some idea of the forces that work in that ravaged country. Tonight we hope to throw some light on why it happened whether it could all of been avoided and what may be expected to happen in the near future. First of all to establish whether the great significance given to the Vietnamese situation is a reflection of the facts or whether perhaps our preoccupations are based on misconceptions the American ambassador in Saigon to Henry Cabot Lodge says if we succeed and warding off this aggression and helping the Vietnamese build the solid political institutions it will undoubtedly be an inspiration to people in underdeveloped countries and
other parts of Asia Latin America Africa who face the same kind of threat. So with that said it has worldwide significance. If we the Americans fail to live up to our pledge it would it would have an effect and belatedly. Have an effect on the whole Atlantic community but in the United Kingdom as to whether our work was good and there seems no doubt that a defeat for South Vietnam and therefore for the Americans who support it with money and troops would have very grave consequences for the West. Robert Thompson recently leading a British advisory mission to South Vietnam sees these consequences as world wide. I think if the West suffers a defeat in vain then we are in a very difficult situation in Asia and in possibly in Africa and even in Latin America if the West cannot save a small country of 14 15 million people from this sort of
action. Then when anyone else is faced with a similar threat how can they possibly rely on either the Americans or us or anyone else to save them in such circumstances. And we could well see a situation in Southeast Asia where Vietnam is lost. Other countries will say How can we possibly say this is inevitable and they will start to make their terms. And even a French commentator Robert Gibbs goes somewhat against the general inclination in France towards the neutralised solution. I do think that it is important for the general balance of Southeast Asia and so on. But to a large extent the American policy has made it more important and more disastrous if it is lost. It's a very terrible thing to lose to shake the world.
Nobody need doubt therefore that the war in Vietnam is important or that those who broadly support the American policy there attach as much significance to it as those who broadly oppose it was a good man has said that the United States has in a sense created the vital necessity for its own success in Vietnam. And this implies that at some stage the war could have been avoided. Indeed among most people interested in the problem a clear impression exists that two vital moments different actions by first the French and later the Americans might have resulted in a reasonable end to the matter many years ago. The French opportunity appears to be existed in 1945 46. Was it an opportunity. Was it missed. David believes it was in the period between March 46 to say October 46 now being so broad basis for understanding between the Vietnamese nationalist movement and the French that their real agreement could have been worked out at the time and certainly if
been implemented I think the world would have been avoided and would certainly have a very constructive alliance between the French and the nationalist movement of China and the whole of series of what would have been avoided the basis of this might have been is a belief that might have been persuaded to adopt a teacher or national Communist position in which ho as the obvious leader of united Vietnam would have allowed a somewhat less the Marxist regime you know to maintain unity. DAVID And I think that was eager to keep a balance between what was really coming east on Marxist and water was not communist and they have to win the confidence to have a broader the bullish consensus possible only inside the nation. But others are not so sure. Professor Bernard fulfill one is doubtful right can be argued that it helps him in other such circumstances. Might have become a U.S. leader. He might if the national Communist surely wasn't by trying to be on the doubt
but it is also clear that even would have run all of Vietnam as a communist. There's absolutely nothing in the background approach even to believe that he would not have been a communist and most Western commentators aware of how much he means long record as a committed communist. I would say that such a possibility was remote at all events as we saw in the first of these programs. The French could not bring themselves to an agreement with Ho and the war began it was finally lost a DNB in food but had been unwinnable for the French a long time before that defeat later on. Certainly that has meaning. Many mistakes and political mistakes have been made. We have made the victory impossible because to win over the communists in Vietnam we have or at least to enlist and not side the whole of you know the overwhelming majority of the nationalist movement and you can do that only in giving full independence to the Vietnamese and say that you will help them to defend their independence against anything anybody. You can
win a war only if you have a popular government to wage it as long as you are. Really pushing supporting a government who has it almost the whole popular forces against him. You cannot win a war once the Americans have taken over the past from who would come. It was perhaps inevitable that they would eventually be engaged in the fighting. Remembering that American aid had been going to South Vietnam for years before the French departure could the United States have avoided involvement in the affairs of Vietnam all together. Not after all the United States is involved in a turn in economic aid in 73 countries and she has military aid programs in 55 countries. So it would have been in all likelihood would have been some sort of America involvement in Vietnam regardless of the situation there. But even if involvement was inevitable needed to take the course it did. Some commentators think not that an opportunity was offered to the United States but Mitt.
But in my view there would have been three American choices or rather four American choices. I will accept the American decision not to have held elections in nine hundred and fifty six. For a variety of reasons after all Germany was reunified as per the Yalta agreements either. As soon as the elections were not held in 150 secs then there were three choices based on one foregone conclusion the foregone conclusion was that the northeast and east were going to do something about the fact that the elections were not held between North and South. It's not in my view the three choices would have them be on one invasion profaneness as I call it to subversion profaneness in three co-existence with the Norse invasion profaneness means that South Vietnam would have been transformed from one day to the next Or soon as possible in 1956 into an American fortress 2 and a thousand troops strong at Timmy's army a sort of. Republic of South Korea in Vietnam. The second alternative subversion professed. For example was achieved in Western Europe in 1947. The
social economic conditions had so much changed that the chance of a communist takeover in Europe had become absolutely nail again in South Vietnam. This would have been possible. South Vietnam could have been made such a howling economic social success as to discourage the North Vietnamese from attacking it. The third alternative would have been to realize that South Vietnam couldn't be made it over into a democracy to realize likewise that North Vietnam was going to stay on its course and therefore to seek to achieve a measure of economic co-existence between the two regimes for example South Vietnam would sell rice to the North and North Vietnam would sell cold to the south and each would get a stake in the other's relative stability. This too wasn't achieved in Vietnam. Therefore this is why I feel that some America commitment was inevitable but the character of the American involvement of course influenced all the future developments events in the country I think we always underestimated the whole political aspect of the war I think we are now reaping
the results of the many neglect what's going on in the street right around this today all this is big like the past and the anti-Americanism. This may very well become a limiting factor and all the military planning all the social planning go by the boards because of political has never forgotten that this is a political war and that to them the military remains second political thing as always for most of them we are we have never ceased to look at the problem. As a military wife we are looking out of more and more with some greater degree of social economic help to go along with all of these are still number one on our list. As Robert Chaplin said in Saigon mistakes have been made. These have been both political and military. I would put the basic mistake that was made in Vietnam was to create a vast army in the country. Now you've got a country of
14 15 million people and an army was created of about one hundred fifty thousand strong which eventually rose to 200000. Now a small country of that size cannot possibly support an army of that nature without being completely dependent on foreign help. The moment you have a nominee of that size within our country the Political Pop must rest with the Army it cannot possibly rest with the people and you are therefore in a position where whoever is the government has got to depend on how he juggles the strength of the army. I think the major military in the state of course has been to treat this very much as a military problem. In other words that they have gone. After the guerrilla units and not the underground political organization of the Viet Cong. If you chase
the girl units around the jungles in the boondocks you may inflict some casualties but you don't damage the insurgent machine. And if you don't go for that you will never defeat the guerrilla units. WASHINGTON In my view has for the past 10 years suffered first of all from what is called the Korean syndrome. That is the belief that any confrontation with communism in Vietnam would be on the 17th parallel with a North Vietnamese invasion force of 10 divisions 10 divisions with tanks and flags flying and presumably hordes of Meg's over the heads of the invading force. As it happened Korea while the actual fact was. Is that in Vietnam the guerrilla war broke out. Inside sounds here first of all it must be understood that in a normal counterinsurgency operation assuming that is such a thing as normal counterinsurgency operations
as a counterinsurgency force usually used anywhere from 10 to one two hundred and ten to one troops against one single guerrilla. Right now the ratios are follows itself down to 2 to 37000 Liberation Front and North Vietnamese troops. And on the government side you have a total of about eight hundred fifty thousand men in our city. They are fighting in South Vietnam at the ratio of four to one. Barrie four to one. You cannot occupy terrain with jet fighters and helicopters you have to occupy a train with troops as long as the troop ratio is a four to one. I don't think that the work can be one of the present bases now. The effect of the bombing the North Vietnamese combat divisions going to South Vietnam do not have convoys of lorries. They do not have convoys of 25 pound artillery going behind them they are going on foot with light weapons that cannot be interrupted. It can be hindered by bombing but it cannot be interrupted by bombing the
French used to NATO aircraft to bomb one single road leading from the Chinese border to DMB and through. And that. Didn't stop the communists from bringing in 80 artillery pieces and about 200000 rounds of artillery ammunition. What strikes me very much is that basically they have not known in what in what country they West in no country of the world can they find a worse enemy. This Viet Cong and more difficult you must reckon first when you think of the Viet Cong war which is the measurable capacity of such a ring and of sacrifice of the Asians at this time. These people have been in the war for so many years they have developed a fantastic capacity of surviving being Kamin living in the jungle in the night and so on and then are just the most
terroristic souldiers that the world has produced so far and in front of these you have the sophisticated nice American boy coming from how I like I saw the twenty fifth division just thrown in this murderous dirty war direct from the planes. They are in a terrible situation in fighting these guerrilla wars. These mistakes have been recognized but some of them at least on the political side stem directly from the peculiar situation of the Americans a Vietnam Benwood of the US Embassy in London says I would like to establish first that the United States cannot directly end of Reign inly. National level politics which go on because any government which was brought into power with the support of the Americans would be immediately regarded as a government which was a as you would call of in Europe a quisling government we are working with the Vietnamese in local politics. We are not attempting to take a direct political role but there are specific action
teams which are going around and trying to stay in the various hamlets and villages of Vietnam and what you're trying to educate the people and a great many things including an increased sense of responsibility for their own affairs which is the very genesis of politics. But with the best will in the world the Americans can prevent their own actions having an effect on bit Timmy's national politics. President Johnson is meeting with General key to Honolulu for example has been interpreted that strongly support for a shaky ruler Robert chaplain to criticize the president that much but I think it was a mistake to put that woman prematurely. Well position was far more shakey far less safe than we were pretending that it was. More recently there's been strong Buddhist resistance to General key and in the event he's agreed to the demands for an early election. Can it be held. Of course elections are terribly difficult in a guerrilla war not just a wall but in a place where it's hard for people to get from one place to the other. However you remember that in 1965 there were commun all
elections in South Vietnam and the Vietcong forbid the people of all it and yet that over 50 percent of the people who were allowed to vote did vote. There was no objection to the election on the side of the military at present. I think one can say that the recon Contro roughly a third of the population that's about five million people. The government control at least and one can say possibly that the rest is just beauty aid mainly under government control anyway in the day time elections could possibly be held that coarser and rigid. I don't know what the voting age is going to be. You have to remember that in a country like Vietnam there the population is more than 50 percent under 21. It's a young population so that the number of voters throughout the whole country. Well I think I've been very lucky of 4 million people went to the
polls out of 15 million. What worries me is how on earth do you establish the organization with which to hold the elections. This With course leaves it open to anyone who doesn't like the election results to claim that the elections were fixed or phony and they weren't valid and so on. It must be quite clearly realised that such elections were run into an enormous amount of troubles simply in the organizational field which areas will be considered safe enough to vote. Which areas will be in fact be safe enough developer will be barred from voting courser likely to vote for what could be called an opposition view such as far as sample whole first core area and Vietnam with way and the net. If such areas are barred from voting will they not protest against the whole election. Will it not vitiate the whole election right from the origin. What kind of candidates can run. Will it be permissible to for example run on the neutralise
ticket. You must realize I missed this has been changed at the last moment. If the sound system is government has on its books at the present moment a decree law which was passed last year which makes it even neutral is a criminal offense in that case one might well wonder what the whole election is going to be about. Always supposing that an election is held and produces a stable government. What color will it be. So Robert Thompson thinks it will want to continue the war. The one thing the side does not want is communists Contro. The trouble that has always being they do not know what they want other than they had. Yet there is a persistent feeling that an elected government might turn out to be neutralised and ask the Americans to go home. You will have a government established a coalition go. Which will it still want to start negotiations with the you know National Liberation Front and we will find ourselves in a very difficult position at the worst of even being asked
to leave which I think is unlikely but it's a big thing happened here we're trying to speculate on something which hasn't happened and that's always a bit tricky. But if a civilian government felt that it could really preserve its security in a country where there are two hundred forty thousand communists ahm been active that would be a decision they would have to make and we would have to then decide how we would act. But I think we would certainly if possible wish to cooperate with them and said they are desirous not to remain longer than is necessary. Finally it should be clear what the objectives of all the people involved in speaking for the Americans been would beso to launch American objectives in Vietnam to defend the people of South Vietnam. To achieve peace in Vietnam through negotiations which we have offered and which have been pushed not only by our government but a great many other governments in the world. This piece might take a long time to achieve but we believe that it is the essential object
of our efforts in Vietnam. We don't look for a victory in the classic sense of destroying and pursuing the enemy we do look some place for a situation where the people in the south are allowed to live alone. All that weirdo is suppressed. Flagrant aggression and to help this country develop itself and its terminations. We are doing here in 1966. What we in the free world did not do when Hitler went into the Rhineland in 1936 when Hitler went into Czechoslovakia in 1938 and it was our failure to resist and Britain led which resulted in the dreadful sufferings of World War 2. And we are fighting a very limited action here to prevent a very unlimited action which would take place if you use the Western Churchill phrase we threw the small nation to the wolves. The Chinese Richard Harris of the time.
The first reason why the Chinese want to complete Viet Cong victory over the Americans is to see the Americans defeated by means of a people's wall as a kind of be at Kong is fighting. China sees the United States as its enemy and Pekingese calculation is that liberation wars will bring defeat to the United States as a world power. In this sense China's motive is simply to treat the Vietnam War as a demonstration that they're right and that the Americans will be defeated by these methods. The methods of mobs of dong which all revolutionaries should study to China is the eventual political settlement in Viet Nam is of secondary interest. They're against negotiations that might end the war without demonstrating the success of a people's war and making manifest an American defeat. But I don't with the Chinese opposition to negotiations is a decisive factor in Hanoi and the Vietnamese.
Patrick honey bought Vietnam formed organized and supplied the Viet Cong which was in its early stages manned by South Vietnamese over the years communist control of the North has grown ever tighter and large numbers of Northern regular troops are engaged in the fighting. The Southern element has grown steadily weaker and now has virtually no influence on Vietcong policy. Orders are given from North Vietnam and by law Vietnam remains convinced that he'll ultimately win and is determined to reject peace talks. South Vietnam it had allies had little alternative to continuing to defend themselves and righting the Viet Cong. None of the successive governments of South Vietnam has been ready to accept peace under any terms other than ones which would allow the country to live in peace from her northern neighbor and arrange her own affairs without armed coercion. Ultimately the fighting will have to come to an end around to negotiating table. But that can't come about so long as North Vietnam refuses to sit at the table. The immediate
prospect is one of continuing fighting which will not end until Vietnam decides she can't win the war and is suffering too much damage to her country to go on sustaining the Viet Cong and if the Americans win what is likely to happen. There is always for Russians the possibility of a diversion somewhere some Russian push or some Russian incident on the Dardanelles in point to business. It's the Chinese that I really believe that it is a law of the history and politics of China. China. Once to be surrounded by friendly countries and cannot admit the building up of a strong foreign base right at the frontier. If after all those years is completely beaten then I really do sing that the time has come for China to enter the war. I think at that time possibly one million Chinese would just be there
south of the 17th parallel in front of the lung for instance an American victory in Vietnam. That is the complete crushing by military means of a Vietnamese opposition in the same sense as the Russians crushed the Garance in Budapest. But simply in purely a given credence that henceforth social political situations can be dealt with with brute military force. Also on the western side you know which military force. To crush freedom I had to as a trite expression goes well then become politically or militarily acceptable in the West. I can readily see the United States then embarking on a what was used what used to be called the treadmill of empire just as the British were fighting and so the Indus of dawn in South Africa on the Kleiber pass or the French were fighting the two hour rags in the Sahara etc. the United States would then embark be condemned in fact by virtue of the so-called success
of the Vietnam military operation to do likewise perhaps in Colombia tomorrow in Venezuela the next day. There are American troops in Santa Domingo. There could be an election in Europe which calls a raw and American troops could be requested by the leadership in power or by the competitors. And one can readily see that the illusion of military success in Vietnam might create a situation where American troops would finally either militarily occupy or garrison 10 or 15 countries throughout the world. If we were successful in what Officer Britain would get encouraged to cut if you want to be free all over the world it would persuade our Atlantic colleagues that our word was good and it would be the beginning of a world carbon isn't comparable in importance I think dated 1917 when it was founded.
You have been listening to Vietnam in the wold the third and last program in the special series The UP MAN The 20 a war this series was a production of the British Broadcasting Corporation in London.
Series
Vietnam War Report
Producing Organization
WGBH Educational Foundation
Contributing Organization
WGBH (Boston, Massachusetts)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip/15-3331zp6z
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Description
Series Description
Vietnam War Report is a weekly show featuring news reports and panel discussions about specific topics relating to the Vietnam War.
Created Date
1966-10-04
Genres
News
Topics
News
War and Conflict
Media type
Sound
Duration
00:27:32
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Credits
Producing Organization: WGBH Educational Foundation
Production Unit: Radio
AAPB Contributor Holdings
WGBH
Identifier: 66-0065-10-04-001 (WGBH Item ID)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Generation: Master
Duration: 00:27:50
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Citations
Chicago: “Vietnam War Report,” 1966-10-04, WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 29, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-3331zp6z.
MLA: “Vietnam War Report.” 1966-10-04. WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 29, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-3331zp6z>.
APA: Vietnam War Report. Boston, MA: WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-3331zp6z