Massachusetts Viewpoint; Problem of General Court as a Result of Election

Good evening and welcome again to Massachusetts viewpoint. On our program last week we discussed some of the implications of the elections of November 3rd 1964 for the people in the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. This evening we are going to focus our attention on some of the problems coming up before the General Court during the 1065 66 session. The elections are now over. What lies ahead in terms of possible legislation and legislative problems that will confront the members of the General Court. The 240 members of the House of Representatives and the 40 members of the Senate of our state legislature. Tonight we are going to have a Republican perspective on some issues before the 1965 66 session of the General Court. And with us tonight to go over some of these problems are the following panel members. Representative Sidney Curtis who is House minority leader and he is from Sheffield Massachusetts. Also Senator elect William weeks newly elected from the Norfolk and Plymouth district.

He is a resident of Cohasset and also Representative elect John W. Sears from the third Suffolk district which covers wards 3 and 5 Beacon Hill and back bay parts of the north and the south and in Boston. As a representative of the press we are again privileged to have Mr. James Johnnie of the Boston traveler who will as usual interrogate the members of the panel in his brilliant manner. Well gentlemen it's a real privilege to have you with us this evening and I know that there are many issues that are coming up before the General Court in the area of education in the area of taxation. Some of the implications of the referendum of the recent election were passed and also the made possibly the forthcoming four year term for members of the executive branch especially the governor. And these are only a few issues that you'll be all be called being with in the 1065 66 session of the General Court. And first of all I'd like to call upon a real veteran in the House minority leader

Representative Sidney Curtis to tell us a little bit about how he sees the forthcoming session from this particular vantage point only several weeks after the election. Representative Curtis. Well in addition to the problems that you just mentioned they are one of the first problems that we're going to be confronted with in the new session. Is the matter of changes in the rules to take care of the electrical roll call system. And this will involve a change in the seating arrangements of members of the house. They'll all have to be seated alphabetically by parties and will involve certain other changes in the roles from the present system whereby the roll was called orally. It's supposed that the new system will however save quite a bit of our legislative time. In addition of course and on the legislative field we expect to have the largest number of bills ever filed before us.

I reviewed this situation very recently with the cleric and he agrees with me the record legislative filing this year in the field of taxation of courses I think all of us know we've kind of reached the bottom of the barrel with regard to expected revenues from the present expected sauces. And so we do anticipate there will be a recommendation for a new taxation which may take the form either of a proposed sales tax or a proposed revision of our state income tax. In addition of course we do have coming in very shortly a report of a special commission on education which is made a study of education in Massachusetts from the primary grades right through the college level. And we expect that there will be certain recommendations made by the commission

which will be coming in to us and which will require additional legislation and which of course we expect will require additional revenue. We also of course have several changes which have been made by the voters at the recent election. One of them of course involves the fact that the statutory or most of the statutory powers of the governor's council have been eliminated. And so the governor will be able to make a great many appointments and also remove walls of state officers without council approval this will make the governor exceptionally strong. There is also of course the fact that in 1966 the four year term for the governor and the other constitutional offices will take effect. And we expect that this will give the governor more control of a few chill legislature chairs because of the fact that the governor will not be up for election at a time when members of the legislature are.

Well thank you very much Representative Curtis and that certainly is a very broad survey of some of the problems coming before the House of Representatives in particular. Of course you represent the minority party in the house I believe that statistics coming out of the election reveal that there are. About 70 Republicans in the house as against some one hundred sixty nine members of the Democratic Party. And when one looks at the figures with respect to the Senate one sees also that the Republicans are definitely in the minority with some 28 members of the Senate in the Democratic Party and 12 I believe in the Republican Party. But one of the newly elected senators in the Senate in Massachusetts is William D weeks of Cohasset who has worked many years in Republican Party organization here in the Commonwealth and now has for the first time the Senate of the General Court. Well Mr. Weeks How does the forthcoming legislative session look to you what are your

expectations what are your hopes and aspirations with respect to some of the problems that you see coming up and problems on which you certainly are going to be making decisions during the next few years. After weeks now fire. The numerical breakdown is concerned as you've mentioned a moment ago the it looks as if the current breakdown in the state Senate for the next two years will be the same as it has been in the last two years that is. That is to say twenty eight Democrats and 12 Republicans this is subject as I understand it to there being one recount in the district now represented by Sen.. William Hayes of Waltham. Representative present representative James to nominee of Lincoln won this seat by I thought I believe 93 votes. And this is going to be recounted

and until the recount has been concluded we won't know what the exact breakdown numerically of the Senate will be. In my view the the one of the principal problems for the Republican Party in the state Senate and I suppose this will be true to some extent in the House of Representatives will be what kind of a program to offer first of all and secondly to what extent Republicans will be successful in carrying such a program into into effect I think it's going to be very difficult with the numerical or lack of numerical strength that the Republicans have to effect. All of the the wish is that the party may have and I think to a very large extent the Republicans are going to have to look to the incoming governor. Former Governor John Bobby for leadership in this respect. It seems to me

also and this is something I found in my campaign throughout the Norfolk and plum a senatorial district the the the matter of public confidence in the state legislature the matter of the legislative image is something which is of tremendous importance and has been in my district as I am sure there has been in many in all in all of the districts. The matter of legislative pay among other things and I think one of the one of the real problems facing our legislature in the next two years as well as the years to come is going to is going to work to improve the legislated image in the public mind this is a very serious matter and in my estimation so far. Particular problems confronting the next session of the legislature are concerned Representative Curtis has alluded to some of the most important I think so far

as our state Senate is concerned the question of taxation and transportation particularly and education are going to lead the list. As you know in the recent session of the legislature the new transportation bill was passed setting up the the Mass Bay Transportation Authority and I think the public is going to be looking to the MBT this year or this coming year particularly to see what kind of success can be made to find a solution to this very pressing problem and this is particularly important in the area in which I am going to be representing in the state Senate because the South Shore as you as you all know all of the South Shore in recent years has had one of the most serious transportation problems of our entire state so this is going to be a very keen interest of mine I think.

With that I'll conclude waiting for the questions. Thank you very much Senator elect wakes I know the transportation on the South Shore is somewhat difficult I have an ask you how you got to tough this evening but maybe we can take that up later and see if you ran into any problems we also have with us this evening a freshman representative in the House of Representatives in Massachusetts. John w series from wards 3 and 5 in Boston a representative elect a serious How does the new session look to you and what do you think are going to be some of the problems and issues that you're going to be coping with in the next few years I know there are roughly going to be the same but what is your perspective on them. Dr. Gibson thanks. I hope you will not be misunderstood if I say that I hope to be one of the problems facing the next session of the legislature. That is an aspiration that I stayed with with a warrant. And I intend to be cooperative but I do believe that I was elected because I caused some people to scratch their heads and rethink some of the things that they've accepted

in the past and I hope to go on being somewhat of a gadfly. Mr. Dhoni may very well steal my thunder this evening. I had a certain amount of difficulty coming out to tops from Boston by public transportation and just now I found the NBPA which is still in its honeymoon period and should be given a chance to pull itself together. It still has a great deal of housekeeping to do and I found that I had a half an hour wait in Harvard Square for a bus to Medford Square. And I think it shouldn't be so difficult to move a citizen from the center of Boston to an important university on the periphery of the city. In eighteen hundred sixty four. As far as my outlook I will add very little to what the two previous speakers have said. We have a commonwealth which has greater natural advantages than I believe any similar area that size the United States. We should have with the architecture the city of Boston the availability

of the ocean. Mountains in the western part of the state. The most pleasant spot in the United States to live in. Instead we have an antique and eroding tax base a situation which is not conducive to business coming into the state and perhaps most important of all the taxpayers are not getting the services for which they are paying too much in taxes. I think it's alarming also that we have the second highest number of draft project in the United States. We have a clear and distinct problem of moral deterioration. We have a real breakdown of law enforcement in our cities and most particularly in the city of Boston. And I hope to play a small role in seeing that a strain is taken to improve some of these problems as to how well we're going to be able to do it with just 70 legislators. Of course we Republicans are going to have to do what we can to create a majority. Time after time we're going to have to

try to simply find enough votes to sustain one of Governor of Opie's vetoes. But I think in recent times it has been shown that if you have a good program and put it forth articulately you can find votes on the Democratic side of the aisle and I think we will be able to find votes in Democratic side of the aisle for good clear reform legislation. Thank you very much Mr. serious. Well now Mr. Johnny you've heard the. Gentlemen talk about the Republican program and some of the issues that they're going to cope with during the next couple of years. Why don't I pass the microphone over to you and take it on from here what are your questions to them. Thank you John. John Gibson might I say at the outset that I I am one of those people who is sincerely concerned about the state of this nation becoming a one party state and one of my fears in the state was the paucity of attractive young Republican candidates stepping forward for public office and may I say I am

delighted to find two new young attractive young men who have made it successfully into the legislature. And I have a question far from Mr. Curtis. You stated that the first problem would be the handling of the electrical roll call. But isn't it true that your first problem is getting re-elected. And in view of all the talk about attempts to oust you how fair is the war. Well let me start by saying this that any person that is a leader of a party always has a certain number of party members who'll oppose them. Otherwise he wouldn't be a leader. Let me start by saying that now I do say that of course one of the first things are as you correctly put it the first thing would be to elect a leader. And I would say to you in reply to your question directly

that I have been assured by a majority of members of my party elected that they will elect me their leader. Well let's do this let's wrap up the vote for you Mr. Curtis Mr. Sousa How do you stand on the election of Mr. Soudas and the election of Mr. Good's Mr. CURTIS Finally. Well I think that he's going to have something to say to me on the way home unless I try the MBT again but I will say this I've spent the entire time in my campaign telling people that I want to keep my mouth shut and my mind open and I hope I'm still in that classification now. I have a lot to learn and I don't think that I start by rendering opinions on things I don't know very much about. But I certainly am receptive. This is a problem question of non-commitment president and hey I'm good. Go ahead Mr. Drone you're wrong. You know I have either a few thoughts on transportation to the south.

Sure I know it's executable and nonexistent practically. And you mention that you're concerned about another South Korea problem. To a great extent has been its inability or unwillingness of the communities that to combine a single program. Now you're going to be a leader out of that area. And do you have any specifics that you think you might get community support behind to solve the problem. Your dismissed Senator weeks. Well Mr Dromey I would I would say this first of all the I personally and I think many people in our area have high hopes for the end BTA not long ago I attended a meeting at the Weymouth town hall this was during the course of the campaign conducted by General James McCormick the new head of the BTA and attended by the selectmen and other public leading public officials in most of the affected towns in the south shore area. The

meeting called to to discuss this problem and and primarily to give general McCormack on behalf of the MBT MBT an opportunity to explain to the group present what they had in mind for what the prospects were for transportation in the area. Now one of the most encouraging. Things that came out of the meeting. In my estimation is this one of the very favorable impression which I took away from the meeting is the apparent open mindedness on the part of MBT officials to give every possible plan every every feasible plan that's been suggested and that maybe suggested a a public hearing and an opportunity to be heard. Now as I understand it there are at the present time at least three or four major plans that have been proposed there are two bus plans bus transportation plans which

are currently pending before the end BTA There was also a elaborate monorail proposal. And General McCormick discussed it. At this meeting at the Weymouth town hall the possibility of there being an extension of rapid transit to some point in the area such as for example two to south Braintree. Down in the vicinity of the the junction of Route 3 and 128 I believe it is the South Braintree shopping center. I think a one out one other thing I'd like to I'd like to say is this that during the course of the campaign I came out publicly in favor of what I would call a legislative leaders conference in our area. It seems to me that that transportation is one of a substantial number of

problems facing the facing any session of the legislature which which I would think of as being of a bipartisan nature nonpartisan or bipartisan cast. And to this extent particularly in the area of transportation where we have such and such a pressing problem I think it's important to gather together our leaders and particularly our legislative leaders to develop a consensus if we can of opinion as to what might be best for the particular area as I've said to all the groups that I've talked to during the campaign I'm not a fan of one or another type of transportation I think the important thing is to develop a sound economically run. Business run plan for the area which is as free from politics as possible. Well now to the end. To the extent of scrutiny to the extent that we can get legislative leadership for want

of another plan I think it's important to do so. Well now supposing you do get this consensus among the South Shore legislators and it comes up in the House and the Senate it comes up in the legislature that the bill is tabbed partisan by your leadership. If the bill did effectively in your mind solve the transportation problem in the south where would you feel free to leave the leadership on an issue such as that since it's a home issue. And and and provided and provided we had developed a consensus of opinion in the area for a particular plan of transportation I well I would have to I would have to reserve judgment depending upon the particular plan that was presented but I would I would feel very strongly pressed I think under circumstances like that to support the point of view proposed impressed by people

in our own area. By the way are you a supporter of Senator Graham. To retain the presence of the minority leadership in the Senate. Well I think. I would say this I have a right hire a guide for Senator Graham. He's done so far as far as I've been able to tell a good job as Senate minority leader I. I know of no prospects for our opposition to his reelection as the minority leader in the state Senate and I would be prepared to support him I think. But if other if other. Candidates present themselves as I say I know of none that are going to I would want to reserve like my my newly elected colleague here on my right an open mind. I want you to be gentleman even though you're a freshman in the political arena. A remarkably deft in fending questions about you know I think it

was brilliant. And oddly enough they're absolutely right. You have to step it up because I promise to be a problem to serve facing the legislature and I want to illustrate the point. The South Shore should not be pushed into doing what it doesn't want to do. I think that's a peculiar Republican trait that we want people in the region to agree with the arrangements made for them before we impress them on them. But the problem of getting people to and from the south shore of Boston has been studied it seems to me half to death since the Coolidge report right after the war all the way to the MTC reports of a year or so ago the monorail has a lot of glamour and I think it should be studied simply because people will give up a romantic idea slowly but monorail crossovers are a great problem when two monorail lines intersect you have a very severe problem of architecture. The thing is big and often unsightly and noisy and I think philosophically people should be moved around underneath the ground rather than scratching around

on its surface. And furthermore there's a problem what you do with people when you get them into the core city. So I fervently hope that we will have short of possible study period of the problem it seems to me to have been studied to death and get on with joining Quincey in Braintree and the rest of the social communities to the city of Boston. We welcome them back to the union. Well you seem to have much more definite ideas in this area than there. When the senator elect from the south shore area that is most directly involved by the way you interest me we'll get back to that with Mr. Gross. Yes. Go ahead. You were interested in stating that you feel that there is moral decay. And particularly in Boston is that Beacon Hill its Beacon Hill every bit as much as any other part of Boston it might take different forms. I was amazed to discover when we had a problem of vandalism in parking meters by the way the incidence was just about as high in the Beacon Hill area as anywhere else.

That first attempted solution involve not correcting the character of the young people who are breaking into parking meters but building stronger parking meters. Now another point to yell before we before I go on to Representative see is you are in a rather ambiguous position are you not the three of you who are elected out of the district come from one ward and the other ward which is predominantly low America and has previously had two representatives to the General Court now has none. How do you propose to solve what what looms as being a rather touchy tricky problem. Will Mr. Tony I think all three of us feel very very strongly about any representation that the North then has no delegate in the legislature. All three of us mean to devote as much of our time as possible to the people of the North End who have unique in very large problems. We do intend to open

an office in that area and be there physically as much as we can. Anticipation of a possible there's a lot of American backlash two years from now. Well I think that it will be a great deal of fun and very good for both communities for us to bring a two party system to the north end and personally I think it's a good thing for any area to have a lively two party system. Don't forget that Ward 3 also includes the Chinese community and parts of the South then those people have been in fact disfranchised for years. Some of the north then representatives have tended to forget the parts of the district outside their own small area and perhaps we can do some things in that area that haven't been accomplished in the past. But as far as the northerners feeling that they have no representation at all I would like to assure them that they are very much in my heart and mind. I'm

spending more time reading northen papers and I am reading the Boston papers seems a lot to read. I read Leno last night. Well I wonder in looking ahead to the. Next legislative session and this question really is addressed to all three gentlemen. To what extent might there be some teamwork between the Republican minority in the General Court and the executive branch which of course is headed by Governor elect Volpi a Republican of course. For instance in the preparation of the of the budget is the Republican minority going to be taken into consideration in the very large task that has to be confronted in the next while the next three or four weeks and preparing this budget. This is just one possibility of teamwork between the Republican governor and the Republican minority in the General Court. Representative Curtis do you have

any thoughts on this issue. Well it would of course answer that in the affirmative. You know if you do the present. Governor elect Walpi is on a vacation until after Thanksgiving but upon his return Mr. Toro who was acting as a liaison for the new administration has advised me that there will be a meeting with the legislative leaders I mean upon his return to discuss the budget and also his coming program to the next legislature. Well Mr. Weeks What do you think about this is this a healthy thing for the Republican minority to be in close touch here on the legislative proposals of the governor. I think there's no question about it Dr. Gibson it seems to me that and I know I've heard Senator Graham when I met with him a week ago expressed expressed this thought that to a very large extent the Republican minority will in

the first instance have to look to the executive branch for some guidance and in the development of legislative proposals which not only affect the state but which also have a bearing upon what the Republican Party does. So I think until we know we've had an opportunity or at least the Republican legislative leader such as Representative Curtis and Sandy Graham. Have had an opportunity to sit down with the next governor and the next lieutenant governor and the attorney general. We there's not too much that we can say or do. This is John Gibson at the Lincoln filing center at Tufts University and on Massachusetts viewpoint tonight we are discussing some problems and issues coming up before the next session the 1965 66 session of the General Court of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts and the sea evening we have a Republican point of view on some of these issues.

With us tonight are representative Sidney Curtis House minority leader. Senator elect William weeks from Cohasset. And Representative elect John Sears from Boston and also Mr. James Johnnie of the Boston traveler representing the press. Well gentleman in any legislative session we have various kinds of problems that on the one hand involve more expenditures and on the other hand a desire naturally to reduce taxes. And this of course was very much with us in the recent campaign for the officers of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts. Now one of these areas. I should imagine would involve more expenditures would be in the area of education. We all are anticipating with great excitement especially those of us in education. The report number one of the Massachusetts commission on education headed by Superintendent Willis of Chicago. This broad two year study that Representative Sears mentioned dealing with and also

Representative Curtis mentioned dealing with education from kidney garden right into the higher education college and university education in the Commonwealth. And most assuredly the Willis Commission will make some recommendations that are going to involve increased expenditures. Report number two will be that of the state study on racial imbalance in the commonweal schools. And this was a committee headed by the eminent State Commissioner of Education Dr. Owen Kiran. I would imagine that the proposals would dealing with racial and balance will not involve maybe any great expenditures but certainly they will involve many kinds of decisions that will have to be taken with respect to the problem of de facto segregation in some of our largest cities and this may well be a local problem as well as a state problem. But we all know that the Willis commission is going to make recommendations about education and we also know that the Republican Party has stood very strongly for reducing taxes and for indeed tax reform in the

Commonwealth. Well now Representative Sears How do you view of the problems of education have you as it's been a matter was this a matter in your campaign do you feel strongly that if the report does recommend increased expenditures this would be one area where you would give some support to proposals for educational reform and innovation. Or would you place a higher priority on reducing taxes or would you compromise with some respect to both of these. GIBBS No I think that education is one of the rare areas where the voters of the Commonwealth seem to be demonstrating that they're willing to spend more. The essential thing is that we. Show them and show them well and clearly that they're getting more services for their expenditure. I think that I would like to comment on the problem that you raised of school populations. I do believe that the Canon conclusions will have gradual acceptance of the Boston School Committee has

been slow to show its enthusiasm and I think that it will be possible for us to redraw the school district lines in Boston so that school populations can look a little better than they do now. I like to comment quickly on the fact that the Chinese community has made no advances towards the school authorities to have their children shifted in the other neighboring schools because of any racial imbalance. And when you ask the leaders of the Chinese community about this the answer that they give you is that their children are getting a better education now than the children in the surrounding schools. This leads me to the conclusion that we have got to ask our educators to be more responsible. We have got to ask our educators to realize that they have to improve the quality of the education of all the children in the Commonwealth. There are some who are getting an unfair shake. But there are a few who are getting anything more than a mediocre education at this moment.

Who represented CURTIS If you had a chance to look into some of the provisional recommendations of the Massachusetts commission on education I know that Harrington has revealed some of the lines of thinking that might be manifested in the final report. Do you see this is a part of your program in the House of Representatives during the coming year. Well I haven't had a chance really to go all over that report thoroughly but I do consider it the most part and matter actually before us in a good many years. Actually the principal advance I think we made in education for some time was set up by members of my party some years ago when we set up the regional school system throughout the commonwealth which of course is of more significance and in my area in the plot of the state that I represent some of these other problems that you have here and in Boston that Mr. Sears just referred to that is the question of imbalance and so on.

We don't have that problem of caution in my part of the state. Because usually we have just one school that covers a tremendous area regional school system. But I can't at this time comment directly on the report because I have not gone over it thoroughly and I don't believe that it's available in print. That indirect. Yes the Massachusetts the annual Massachusetts assembly on state government which is held the toughs is going to concentrate in March of nineteen sixty five on the problems that will come out of the last report so we will have a rather thorough investigation and maybe a set of recommendations on the implementation of that report. But Mr. Weeks I know you've had a long interest in education is this something that the people in the south shore with whom you talk to during the campaign and they have a very sustained interest in the Commonwealth doing more in this area. I

say this because as you know the new recommendations that came out from Dr. James Conant that were just publicized over the weekend call for a vast increase of power in state departments of education. And Dr. Owen Karen in a couple of days ago commented on the cronut reports and I would dare say that more and more the. Attempt will be made to give the state Office of Education or power and certainly this is going to be something in the. Midst a lot of the weather be a controversy or not in the General Court but this is going to be I should imagine one of the key problems what about the people the social or is this an issue there. Well as you stated Dr. Gibson I have personally had had a long time interest in education and I am anxious. As as the other legislators to do whatever we can to provide young people with the best possible education in our commonwealth. In my

campaign the matter of education providing better education in our local schools was not the law to say the what I would consider to be the most important issue. I think one of the perhaps the two most important issues where the matter of the legislative image and secondly the matter of tax relief and tax reform and this ties in directly with the matter of education because the costs of education borne to a substantial extent as you know by the real estate tax. And if I found one thing which which most people. I feel strongly about very keenly about in our area it is the desire to do something to relieve the the ever increasing real estate tax burden which everybody has to bear and this as you will appreciate affects not only the person who owns

his own home but it also affects the tenant who through the rentals that he pays is is is is paying a larger burden to the extent that the landowner has a higher tax to bear. So I feel very strongly that while we must do everything possible to do better our education if we're if we're going to do it we we can't have our cake and eat it too either got to we've either got to raise additional revenues from one source or another to pay the cost so we've got to reduce costs. In the areas where they can be reduced providing as representative Sears has suggested a. Better service to the taxpayers for the for the funds that they're they're spending in taxes. And I think tax relief and tax reform is as I've stated and as I've. Point it out publicly in my campaign is is a tremendously important matter

and probably the most important matter facing the next session of the General quite well thank you Mr weeks I'd like to go back now to Mr Dromey who I know is just full of questions. Governor of all P It would appear is prepared to submit a proposal for a sales tax. Now I know where Representative Curtis stands on this because he has stood up and been counted before on it. You two are new members to the legislature and I think Representative says it might be particularly pertinent to you since the mayor of the city of Boston made the tax relief thing the real estate tax relief thing. The one issue in which he was concerned and he injected himself rather forcibly into the gubernatorial campaign on that issue. Now how would you stand on a sales tax How do you have any alternatives to what are you for a nominal bas type thing. Way back at the beginning of the summer Mr Joni and I put out a piece of campaign propaganda which said that I thought that expenses should be cut everywhere that we had twice too

many people on the public payroll and that we should put our financial house in order before talking about taxes but if we had to raise revenues as a last resort and I do believe that revenues should equal outgo then we should resort to a limited sales tax. During the campaign countless people came up and said We like you but we can't support you because you favor a sales tax. I don't think I favor any tax. I don't think a politician in his right mind goes around advocating taxes. I do favor fiscal responsibility. And if we have to balance our outgo by increasing our intake the limited sales tax appeals to me. I will admit that I like a few of the parts of Governor Peabody's tax proposal which I understand we are here in his farewell message. I do think that there might be a case made for lowering the exemption from $2000 not because I want to soak the poor good because I think it's wonderful for a

large segment of the community to feel like taxpayers. And I think there might also be a case for readjusting the deduction for rental income. But I would rely most heavily on a sales tax on nonessentials. You know Mr. Sears mentioned campaign propaganda I thought this was campaign literature. Mr. Sears is this something I think when I get a chance to read it I'm sorry I see it. You get served. Where you know several several of our panelists Mr. Johnnie have mentioned the idea of image and I wondered whether there are two images here that I think might be of interest to our audience. One is the image of the legislators or is in the General Court. And another is the image of the Republican Party itself as it goes into the next two and four years looking ahead a chorus two thousand nine hundred sixty eight. I wonder if we could discuss these two images. Briefly Mr.

Weeks you mentioned the idea of legislative image what do you think what is wrong with the image right now is it is it bad is it distorted and what might be done by the Republican Party and the members of the party in the General Court to make this image a much better one so that the public itself would have greater confidence perhaps in the senators and representatives who are making these critical decisions for them in the General Court. Well as I stated at the outset Dr. Gibson This this I found in my campaign to be one of the principal issues on the minds of the voters. Did somebody ask you why you were getting in politics and why you were going the General Court is this a factor how scum you're getting involved. Oh yes this this came up now and again. And I answered it. Well I said I simply I simply simply said this that I felt that to the extent any one individual such as myself.

Assuming I would be elected to the General Court could work to build a better climate of public opinion and work to solve some of the pressing problems of the state which were on hand I'd like an opportunity to do sell and I felt that I wanted to be of service and would like to have an opportunity to try now. The the the problem of legislated image I think comes down it so far as my own experience is concerned it came down almost invariably to the question of legislative pay. Now I'll tell you I'll be perfectly frank to tell you that my own personal viewpoint on this is that as a matter of principle I think in the long run the the public would be better served by paying its legislate is a large sum of money than they're being now paid and I think it would would also serve to attract more capable and

qualified men to the public service but what. But but this is the matter of the amount of legislative pay is not the real problem what bothered the public I think so much was the way the the legislative pay increases were adopted both in 1960 and in 1950. Two or three was at 63 I believe the last. The last legislative pay increase was adopted so I think it's vitally important too. To do whatever we can to as as legislators to to improve the image that the legislature has before the public. Now how do we do this there are there are probably in time a variety of things that we might do such as I think for one thing if the legislature were able to complete its business in five to six months. On a fairly regular basis. This is extremely difficult to do as Representative Curtis knows full well that this would

this would tend in time I think to increase public confidence. I think the more the legislature can level with the public so to speak as as former governor Volpi did on the tax question in the campaign the better able it will be perhaps to project a better image in in the in the months and years ahead. Many other proposals have been suggested and undoubtedly new ones will be suggested as to ways to improve the procedure of the legislator. And this is something I'm not familiar with ledges represent of credits is but. I think this is a very pressing problem. But the serious do you have any views on the image of legislators and the General Court. Gibson isn't it fascinating that the voters showed their lack of enthusiasm for the way the governor's council has been conducting its affairs by supporting Question 5 and still put back in office most of the people who made that question necessary and the same thing happened with respect to the legislative pay

raise. They showed their disapproval of the way we have been behaving and yet sent back to the legislature many of the people who who caused the question was in question 8 be on the ballot. No I get this question 6. There is obviously something rotten in the state of Denmark and I would like to comment since this is a Republican program on what we might do to improve image. I would think that the Republicans have several great deficiencies and one can be expressed as a lack of concern for public needs. We tend to be very cold hearted and at times unaware that there's anything more than a budget to be balanced. If our national leadership insists that local problems should be solved at the local level and I believe almost all of us would agree that we should solve problems at the lowest possible level where they can be solved effectively then they can come in and is that the local politicians

should offer solutions to problems. If that needs illustration I see a bit of perplexity and you know face. If your national leadership insists that problems should not be left eternally to the federal government then of course your state and local the allegations have got to have some idea as to how to solve them. With respect to what the Democrats might do to improve the image of the legislature I will only say that I'm not making a campaign speech it does seem to me that they can do a great deal more to improve the image of the legislature than the Republicans can and I might begin with a wholly new outlook on recruitment of candidates. How thank you and certainly I. Forceful state did mention however that back a few minutes that income must equal outgo and just now you stated that if the public need is there then the expenditures must be made. In other words. You are putting yourself on record as favoring unlimited tax increase where the public need

exists is that correct. Well I think that's a great question counsel is leading the witness. I think there are several areas such as education and such as police protection where the public will willingly pay more and so long as the service is provided. That was number 6 on the referenda you were referring to the police pay raises. I thought I thought I'd just let them do what is 6 then what was the number they raised for the pay raise for the legislature as I see now I have. I have a I have a problem for Mr. Curtis. It seems to me that with such a massive and overriding number of Democrats running around the Senate and the house how can you possibly effectively be a deterrent to a program that you consider invidious perfidious profit of what. How can you do this you know when most of all people is in two years ago.

Much of his program did not get through when the charge was made against you and it was made rightly or wrongly that it was ineffective leadership in the house in keeping the Republican members in line how do you propose to do that now sir. I recall back when Chris heard I was governor. He faced a Democratic House. He was always able I think principally through skip white to he had a cadre of Democrats in his pocket so that his program pretty much got through. This was not true for Mr. evolve. And I'm wondering now Mr. Curtis how you propose to solve a problem where it's even more massive than it was two years ago. Well having served 16 years in the house I was of course present when her daughter was governor of the Commonwealth. And I think this one thing you have overlooked in asking this question that you have if you will recall that during the first of her administration which was from 1953 to 1955. And I was the committee

chairman at that time. And of course we did have a majority in both branches. That is the members of my party did. So that of course having a majority as the governor did in both branches and also cost control in the executive office. I don't think there was any special problem that he had there although it was one Democrat in his second term. I now come to the second term and you will recall at that time of costs I heard or was the chief executive in addition to that he had control of the Senate. Now with regard to the house the difference in the house was very slight as you will recall not as it is today. There were if my memory serves me correctly at that time one hundred seven Republicans in the House of Representatives. And therefore you had with a governor with a Republican governor and with a Republican Senate. The situation was entirely different from what it is today and what it was under of all peace first administration. Because

you only needed the very few Democrats to support a of any type and only those in the house were needed because of course you had a majority in the Senate. Of course you have a different situation now and you have as I say you have a different situation on the Vaal peace first term. However let me bring this to your attention that after of all the left office you will recall as you mention the worst several programs which the governor Governor Deval P had proposed such as reorganization the Department of Public Works reorganization of Department of Commerce. And you will recall that all those though those were initially rejected by Governor Peabody when he came in. He later decided to make some recommendations which were quite similar to those which have been made by Governor Deval flee and they were supported in their entirety by the Republican membership as I recall with one exception. One member of the house and they were also supported by a great many Democrats.

Now at the present time I think you have this situation prevailing because the Democratic majority has been rob the linage. You have had an effect really a three party system. You have a group of independent Democrats which you will recall for instance on the governor's council matter which came up before the House in this last session if I recall correctly the bill was killed of a tie vote. Every Republican voted to curb the council and quite a number of Democrats. That was a matter which was considered by a Republican caucus so that you can see that on certain proposals I mentioned the Crime Commission too. You have a situation where the. A great number of Democrats joined with the Republicans as I think they will in the future. There are sort of a large insurgent group of Democrats in the house the last house and I notice most of them return this time

who are not necessarily by the Democratic program Mr. Weeks. Could I comment on this on your question also. The yeah excuse me the problem as stated by Representative Curtis. Will be a little bit different in the state Senate because in the state senate under the present lineup 28 Democrats 12 Republicans only two Democrats will be required to join with the Republican minority assuming the Republicans all vote as a bloc in order to have enough votes to override or to sustain a gubernatorial veto as the case may be. And I think the experience from what I've been told and have have known in the past the experience in the Senate has been that as in the house on certain measures where the Republican Party is able to propose a sound

position in the public interest that there has been. The Republicans have been able to gain support from members of the opposite party and I see no reason why this can't prevail. Likewise in the upcoming session of the legislature. Don't you think when I'm thinking of truly is under those circumstances swinging two Democratic votes to sustain a veto don't you think that's going to open the administration up to charges of wheeling and dealing we got in those votes. Isn't that the impression that came off at the tail end of the last book the administration. And don't you think that the Republican Party should now plan some sort of program so that they go to the public directly and massively for support as they did in the Crime Commission they they put forward so strongly that no legislator almost did vote against the establishment of the Crime Commission. Well I think the last point that you've made has considerable merit because. Even even assuming

even assuming the very best circumstances in the coming legislature in terms of getting a Democratic support for Republican proposals I think the Republican Party may may to a large extent have to carry its program and its case before the people through the news. The various news media. Well thank you very much Senator elect weeks and other members of the panel. Representative Curtis and Representative elect Sears for expressing this evening in the voice of the minority in the General Court of Massachusetts at least for the 1965 and 1966 session. You've all talked about a number of problems that are going to be facing you during the next two years. Several of them of course deal with the image that you as Republicans will have an image that legislators have in general and all of you I think are anxious to increase it. And Mr. Weeks talked about the increase in pay as a matter of principle and bringing about a greater measure of confidence among the members of the public and what the members of the General Court are

doing for them. Secondly you've talked a good deal about the need for tax reform and especially for relieving the real estate burdens at the community level and doing more in the General Court to watch expenditures and to bring out goal in line with income in the area Transportation they're going to be many new ideas submitted to the General Court and all of you have expressed yourself on these as they will come up for legislative action. Number four with respect to education I trust that all of you. Are going to carry out what you've said on this program with respect to the interest that you have in it the desire to have education reforms and educational innovations which certainly are badly needed on the state level. There also seems to be a likelihood of a good measure of coordination with Governor elect John Volpi in his preparation of legislative proposals and in the budget for the next year. Of course minority leader Curtis is going to face a test of his leadership in the next session and in the House of Representatives Mr. Sears will play a part of

that. And in the Senate Mr. Weeks will be one of the 12 senators there dealing with legislative problems in the Senate. Mr. Weeks and Mr. Curtis are new members of the General Court they as Mr. Johnny says show a great deal of promise for the Republican Party here in the Commonwealth and I dare say will play a stronger role in the national. Leadership contests that will be coming up. I hope we're going to have the voice of the Democrats in the General Court later. But for this evening I think we've had a very good review of Republican programs and promises and expectations Thank you all very much.