The First Amendment; Jane Smith

The eastern Public Radio Network in cooperation with the Institute for democratic communication at Boston University now presents the First Amendment and a free feed with a weekly examination of civil liberties in the media. In the 1970s the host of the program is the institute's director Dr. Bernard Reuben. I'm very pleased to have on the program today two representatives from the Pine Street in which is a home for men who have not had too much luck in our society people who have been Skid Row alcoholics. One third of the patients or residents on temporary bases are people who have been former mental patients elderly people younger men down on their luck homeless men in general. The first guest is Paul Sullivan the executive director of the Pine Street Inn in Boston who has been there for nine years in that position. Paul tells me he's a recovering alcoholic. He's a graduate of Boston College and business administration. The second guest met Paul when she covered a story for a radio station that see

Jane Smith. Most of you know him from her work at w e i f m here in Boston. She's an instructor in broadcasting at Boston University a freelance broadcast producer and a member of the director's board of directors of the Pine Street in the Pine Street in to. For those of you who are not acquainted was started in 1017 in the time of Calvin Coolidge and has gone through successive changes for example in 1969 urban priest took it over. The association of Boston urban priest in March of 1973 it was incorporated in its present guise of the Pine Street Inn. With its monies coming 60 percent from contributions from volunteers and in kind food supplies nursing services and all the rest of it and 40 percent from the state department of welfare which pays approximately three dollars and fifty cents per patient per night so it's right on the edge two years from now it is looking to move to another location in the south end. Paul I want to ask you this

question first. Just what are the basic rights as you see it after these important nine years of your life of the people who have not been fortunate men of our society. Well I just believe that they have exactly the same rights as any other person you or I or anybody else walking around out there. But they're very often they're ignored because they're not known about their own and they're typically the homeless people shunted into the backstreets out of sight out of mind and they don't have they don't have an advocacy or group for them. So as a result They're the forgotten people. And there's a very big need for folks to step up front and make it known that they do exist. They do have rights. Let folks know about it I think a lot more can happen. Well this is where you might come in Jane. It's approximately to the same question What is the reaction that you see as a as a communications specialist of the press or the media in general to the plight of these people and you're

communicating to the general society what their situation is. Bernie when you're covering a story on homeless people it's a very sensitive type of story. It's not the kind of story that you can walk walk into say a Pine Street in 20 minutes to one half hour research it and go out and tell it it's impossible because that's not how it happens at the Pine Street or many of the other places. Take Rosie's Place which is a similar institution or facility I should say not institution facility for homeless women in the south end. When you're covering a story like this is something you have to take time out unfortunately. When I first met Paul I was working for Channel 7 and we were doing a series on alcoholism which is going to be a 10 day public affairs across the board series. I had three months to research the story. And so I had plenty of time to sit down to spend a day with Paul Sullivan to see the

toll facilities to meet the people there not just the guests as they are known at the pine tree and people who come there and live there. Most of the people work there and that's another incredible story that people give their lives to to work with these people. So it's something that you have to to live with a little bit in Unfortunately for members of the press. Time is of the essence in most. Most of the time we do not have the time to spend to really get a story like this. There used to be a radio program called Grand Central Station which are all timers remember. And they always introduced it with the slogan the crossroads of a million private lives. It would seem to me that there are many stories here instructional stories and stories of importance to everybody in society because the press doesn't have the time is the press derelict in its duty. How would you feel Paul.

I don't know as I'd say derelict. What I found is this that they are fast News's tends to be fast they don't have much time to spend and Jane has already mentioned that but very often you're able to talk and communicate was one of the members of the press whether it's the newspapers of the radio or television. And I asked him to please come on down and spend some time with you. Once they have and they begin to get caught up and see the depth of what's going on down there I've got very positive results from it. I know nine years ago you could us somebody around the corner from my building where it was and they wouldn't begin to know. Yet here nine years later we've got a great awareness in the community and in the state in general about us all through the news media. Without them we would have got any place I don't believe I have had very very good press from it. How could you explain a situation like the Pine Street Inn. How could you describe it no way unless you had something like the media. As Jane mentioned with Channel 7 they

did a film on us a documentary and this has been invaluable. I've been able to take out a roll of film that's 24 minutes long and allow a lot of folks to enter the end spend a whole day there in a sense by viewing that film. So there's a lot of power in the press and you had to face misinformation from the press. On occasion I have yes. Could you give me some examples. Well individual individual reporter reporters in two occasions have come down there with an idea for a story. You would have to know what's going on in their heads to understand it. But somehow or another and maybe they were playing for sensationalism. They had an idea that they wanted to portray and it was immaterial what they saw they had in a sense I felt made the written a story prior to coming down. And so my giving my side of it or my understanding of it had no effect upon it. And so I was forced to read a story about my in which I know intimately It was absolutely incorrect by somebody who had only spent a few minutes there and give me the opposite side of the publicity question that's the invasion of

privacy. Could either of you tell me what you think are the standards for maintaining the dignity and the privacy as well as the publicity needs of the residents of the Pine Street in. Again I think they can be that can be handled well. The first thing is the privacy of the guests and for that no occasion has a press of a violated that because that's one of the conditions of coming down the aisle or doing any press on it is that it would be up to the individual guess as to whether they will be televised interviewed and so what. It is only after they have given it permission that the press is allowed to deal with them and talk with them are all capable of giving that permission. Realistically no they are not. That's a good good point. Very often we on the staff will screen for that. We will be the initial contact with the guests and we will make sure that he is aware that he has a right to say no. Whether he's capable of saying no. So we do protect we do get a little paternalistic possibly in that vein

but it's all for the benefit of the guest and protection. Jane have you noticed any problems that are that the pressure to be aware of and covering that story. This is something that I've always had great difficulty with. Personally I don't like a story which invade somebody else's privacy. And if my editor or you know my producer asked me to do something like that ethically I'd have to say I can't do it and it might mean my job. But you know I have certain standards I have to live by. And to go along with it was a very interesting thing happened I think just this past Christmas within a local reporter and I won't mention a name because they don't you know want to problem her with her job so that her editor had asked her to call in see if she couldn't do a Christmas story typical you know the poor homeless man doesn't have a place to go or any family to be with on Christmas Day and go down and cover him and get his feelings and I well you know that's that's invasion of privacy and it's using somebody to sell your newspaper. And she had a great deal of difficulty

with it. She said she called because a writer told her to do it. But in her heart she didn't want to do it. And she was so relieved when the end said no she said. That's all I needed. How do you deal with something like that you know. It's a matter of personal principles it's a matter of maybe. Either of individual newspapers principals stations principals I have trouble with that personally and I know at the conference you had this past November media ethics media ethics I believe it was run Nessun who was not you brought that up yesterday at the luncheon and he said that he was asked when he was doing the overnight shift for CBS to call some Senator's home at 3:00 a.m. in the morning and and find out if either his wife or one of his children had been involved in some kind of a scandal. And he told his editor he couldn't get through the line was busy when in essence he had never called at all. And I think I

probably tend to go along with Ron yes and handle the situation that way. I don't think there's an answer to that question I think it's a matter of individual taste and individual principles and also some good publishers and editors keeping a standard for their their newspaper or television or radio station but unfortunately news is a business in a very competitive business and you have to sell it. So the story of the men having the turkey dinner is on the calendar and if it's Christmas time or Thanksgiving time they may not have a real interest in your work during the year but you know that they're coming. Yes. Yes. For the kind of comic strip episodic coverage that doesn't do you any good. Well again I don't get the comic strip episodic feeling about it as much as the idea that the men are ladling up the food and that is the Pine Street Inn or any other facility that may be their idea.

But maybe I manipulate in the sense. I know that without this news media that the men would be deprived of a lot of things it's only by exposure in awareness that we can get our friends to contribute in more people aware of the situation. So I guess possibly I'm a good manipulator. I request that they come down and then just like any good contract two people have to agree to it. So I sort of ask them where they're coming from and let them know the game rules the ground rules. If we can agree on it we go forward. If I find that they find problems with that then it's Thanks but no thanks. And by the same token if I'm trying to lead them into an area that they don't care to go into they can say no to me. So as a result I think we've worked well together I don't say as it's a small district in the world but we make it. Tell me you're going to be moving in approximately two years you hope to be moving to the south and to the Bristol Street area where you will increase the number of beds and you will have at least 50 beds for women going to providing a facility for

homeless women. There is a good deal or there has been some community tension there. Does that still persists. Have you managed to explain to the community that sometimes we don't want to have derelict people around our neighborhood that it is something they can be proud of or they can accept. I think it's a matter of meeting meeting with the people to explain. Most folks will accept the idea that this is a worthwhile agency over a program but preferably go someplace else. So we did we were aware of this and so we notified the community immediately when we knew we wanted to go to that particular site in the south end and they set up a task force to meet with us. I think it's our obligation is to be able to respond to the questions and to do away with the fears or the misconceptions they might have about us. And we have to invest that time

they have the right still. So as again it's a two way street. They have their rights and they have a right to question who's come into the community at the same time. My guests have their rights too. It's a matter of sitting down together and putting some time in and working things out together. It took two and a half years. We met on a bi weekly basis and we discussed each and every facet that was of interest to them. At the end thank God we were able to get the approval of the Southend community so that now my guess will be going into that community with their acceptance and it should be a lot smoother because of it. You get most of your contributions 60 percent current and 40 percent from the State Department of Welfare. But I get the feeling that it is touch as touch can go that you're hanging on the edge of the cliff. The Perils of Pauline you hope that every day you have enough to go on. Is this the way we ought to do it or should we start to publicize our. Relationship person to person in our society that we have to care for everyone.

Jane what do you think. Well I have a great deal of feeling about that Bernie. And I'd like to tie in a little bit with your last question to Paul. You know you mentioned about you know moving into a new neighborhood in the acceptance of these people. I am also a South and resident as well as being a member of the Pine Street and board of directors and I'm one of these people who's moved into an urban renewal area bought a home and I'm living very comfortably. But in this process of coming in and buying a home I've most likely displaced some people and some of these people are probably now homeless because this was traditionally the area where the rooming house was were. How do I deal with that. Do I have a social responsibility toward those people or some of the people in the south and would say no you know that's their problem. But I can't look at it that way. And I think that ties in with your your next question you know how do you do with these people on a day to day basis. There is really no power base in our society for the homeless people. I know there's

another person who's involved with with the homeless it's Kip Tiernan and I mentioned before Rosie's Place in very strongly speaks about the politics of the of the powerless. And I'm wondering you know how do you develop a power base for really what you what is a voiceless constituency. I mean there's representatives there's a city council people who live in the areas where these poor people are. But do they ever go down to see how they're doing or do they really care how they're doing. No because you know these people are not likely to go to the polls to vote for them. So you know they're really a voiceless constituency they're there but really except for people like Paul Sullivan in who you know is very much involved in the Pine Street in and several other people who do like work. There is really no one who is an advocate for these people. And I think that's something that needs to be dealt with a lot more if not dealt with in the press. And I think Tom Winship again at that median ethics conference you know addressed this very

straight on when he said all the globe covers politics very well. But we do very poorly when it comes to community. And that's what we're talking about. Well one of the editors at the same conference that you alluded to said that he had enough of certain kinds of stories and he could care less about the endless repetition of certain kinds of stories. This is a kind of a problem that in a sense produces the residence of the Pine Street in that if you as Jane says if you don't have membership in a community if you're not part of somebodies constituency once you drop out you drop all the way out and it may be that the Pine Street in might be an educational institution for the rest of society that you shouldn't have to step off the cliff and fall all the way down. Be you an alcoholic or perhaps not as mentally alert as other people or in some cases just old perhaps we might well on that

some of your guests are just all he has here that's their crime isn't it that's a crime. Is there is the punishment justified. Definitely not. Many of our elderly guests a Met a fact I rather enjoy the way they talk about it. Some of them are unable to get into or stay in nursing in the rest homes because they don't have relatives or friends with the clout to force the issue of their third party payments not private paying patients and so they were easily removed. There's nobody around to object to fight for it and the other side of it is the one I thought will enjoy it when an old timer come up to me they say. Hey Sully. I'll opt to stay in your or your Dama Tories and in my stand up meals with my sandwiches because it leaves me my personal freedoms and when I go into a nursing home or rest home he said all I could think of as my God this is God's waiting room. We've all been relegated here for the temporary period until we die. His very depressing.

So I kind of like it when I think that this place can meet that need leave a person you're giving them a certain humane consideration. Now tell me on a day to day basis I just don't know. You tell me that most of your guests you told me before the program although it's a day by day situation have been with you for quite some time yourself for years I got yes. But what percentage are there almost on a permanent basis. Or I'd say a good 40 percent of our guests have been there for a year or more or more. Some of my guests have been there long before I came there that's nine years. They are in all terms permanent. This is the place that meets their needs. There is no place else around that can satisfy their needs in a better fashion apparently they are satisfied. Now you give them counseling and everything else what happens Jane when when the morning comes do they leave. I walk out of the building wait for you to open the doors again. Or are they there on a 24 hour day basis.

Well a building is available to them on a 24 hour day basis and they come and go as they as they feel I guess will awaken in the morning. First thing is go downstairs and have a breakfast to take care to. Then they're free to go out do their business visit their friends make their appointments or to stay in the building. A lot of cases we remember now we're dealing with the mentally and physically handicapped weather plays a big factor. So doing this during the winter months and particularly during the stormy season. Many of our older guests are unable to move around emphysema you can't take that cold. Your own question is you can't have to go for around in the snow banks. So it the beautiful part of it is allows him the freedom to make their own choices they can stay or they can leave. The options are there for them. Options in the person's life important. You told me jokingly that or think Jane told me. What is Paul sometimes referred to as all Father Paul Sullivan of course. Well our friendly neighborhood priest of kind of the neighbor to the rescue of all these poor homeless

people without benefit of a long clerical education. Your your insides your own motivations have carried you to this work. Have we communicated this work to sufficient other people so they can see the importance of devoting themselves to it. I don't think we can ever do enough of that. As I said going back to the nine years ago. Zero knowledge or awareness only brought you to it. My own alcoholism. Actually I'm down there by mistake I came down to refuse a job as a matter of fact. I can't tell you what happened when I walked in. There was an awareness there that something was going on and it was worthwhile and I was curious so I stuck around and that stayed for nine years and I'm still curious and still work to be done in the still need there. I think one of my biggest roles down in way is to make other people aware and I think that's what we should do more of. Don't sit back and say Isn't it too bad things aren't happening. Why is too bad that people don't know about this population other needs. But our job I think is to go out

there and make people aware keep saying it out loud present it to people put it right up in front of them. There's a lot of goodwill and people you know Bernie I think that one of the greatest problems when you're dealing with the homeless with the alcoholic with the recovery covering mental patient his people are basically uncomfortable dealing with them. They don't know how to deal with them. And as a result they put some kind of a distance between them and I know it's been said to me many times that I can't have these people walking my streets you know. And if we build it if we move this Pine Street in down into the south and we're going to have more and more there to come from all of the city. You know if they only stop to think about it the Pine Street in is going to take these people off their doorsteps and it's going to give them you know a place to go so that they're not walking the streets. But again it's because they're different. They're not doing the socially acceptable things. They are cut out of the mold like you know 90 percent of us are in this society. The people you know just look in

and kind of stayer and hold back. They don't know how and maybe that's probably the biggest problem that faces us. That's education and education now only to the rights of these people. But how to treat them as a human being. There's a lot of talk in our society today about the right to life. And we're concerned about you know the medical term the right to life you know where when you pull the plug and when is somebody legally dead. We forget about the Right to Life has a lot more in that phrase. It means how we we live quite qualitatively you know while we're here emotionally and socially as well as physical standards of the residents. Have great curiosity about their world and and are deprived of education are deprived of communication or deprived facilities so they could read or just go on with their lives at the age of 60 or 70 you no matter what their conditions

are. Is that a problem for you to meet the other needs of people who are there on a permanent basis. Or do you handle it just by a television set and a couple magazines television set magazines and posting of what's going on around town and where things can be had it be almost impossible to know what is really requisite So the needs of all of the individual see just try to do in a very general way. I suppose the best way is the fact of the staff and the volunteers who are in there. There's somebody available to listen to them so they can make their needs known. It's also the comments a lot of this will come out and you try to make it happen. That doesn't mean they can get access to everything that they want or need. But we try to keep aware of it. Yes this is part of our shortcomings as communicators Jane that we we don't do anything to to provide. Well you know we all live in different worlds and maybe some people have more need to know about what's happening around them than others. There are some people who survive

very well on the street. There's that whole street mentality. There are certain people who you see around town in the know that this is their lifestyle and they're happy they're confortable as long as they have a place to go and to eat into it and to get maybe some clothes when they need it. Who is to say that they have to know you know whether Siddharth you know in Bagan are going to get to you know I didn't mean that I meant. Perhaps perhaps we ought to provide free movies and we're showing I mean I'm on that same line I think our needs are different. And I am wondering you know these people are really their needs are the basic needs. All of them. I think a good many of them and many of their social needs are taken care of just in the mere socialization process they have with dealing with each other. So I don't know. That's a very intricate process at the you know I would gather it's a very difficult and a difficult one definitely And you know Paul is an absolute

master at and working this out with many of the people. Yeah their priorities you have to very much you would you should do is find out what they're guessing which your guest needs to often I think we we try to figure out what they need like we might be very much for having a movie in there and we wonder why they don't pay much attention. We have to step into their shoes a bit. Their face with their face with could possibly be with death for lack of the basics. So their priorities might be entirely different from now as they try to figure out how to stay alive till tomorrow. So the movie isn't quite at a point at this stage they have been too used to fighting for that other thing I think is a lot of folks will say to you we don't we shouldn't provide the service for them after all and not working or they don't do this I don't do that. If you were to say to them well would you kill him for this. Would you educate execute him for this. Or hell no of course I wouldn't. Well then why not be more honest about it. If you deprive them of housing and food and medical care they will die. So when you're fighting against these basics of survival for these folks

then you are very much saying for the crime of being mentally retarded for the crime of being addicted to the drug of alcohol for the crime of being elderly you were to die. You can you can do it a couple different ways you can either put a gun to a person's head and shoot them or you can withdraw the support mechanisms that would keep them alive. I think the former is the more honest of the two. Most people deal with the latter. I get the impression of a very commendable operation and some very dedicated people. But somehow I don't get really proud of my society when I hear about the Pine Street in nor about the role of its mass media and acting as an educational tool. Jane is this off base of my being prejudiced. I don't think so at all Bernie because I feel very much the same way. I find it almost depressing at times to see people's not so much a lack of information but just like an interest in what's happening to these people. You know just you know accepting the fact that somebody is just out on the street

but not caring enough to do something about it. I think we have a long ways to go to fuse those two so that you know when you see somebody you care a bit. Well there are two very caring people here and I'm delighted to have you Paul Sullivan executive director of the Pine Street in and you you Jane Smith with me today from the board of directors of the Pine Street Inn. I know a little secret about you both Paul I know you're a very caring person and I know another secret about AJ Smith many years ago even before she met you Paul. She did a little paper a professional paper on the air in the show district and the health problems. And I think this has been a thread that produces the interest in these people and I wish you every good luck in the world for today. Bernard Reuben. The eastern Public Radio Network in cooperation with the Institute for democratic communication at Boston University has presented the First Amendment as a free people a weekly

examination of civil liberties in the media. In the 1970s the program is produced in the studios of WGBH Boston. This is the eastern Public Radio Network.