WGBH Journal; Carmen Pola Interview

Good evening and welcome to this GBH Journal special. I'm Henrietta Davis. With me here this evening is common Paula. Amongst other things common is the chairman of the bilingual implementation team a group advising the school committee on bilingual education in the Boston public schools. She's also chairman of the bilingual citywide parent advisory council. Karma's a mother of four school aged children and she works in the district one seat back office the community District Advisory Council which covers Brighton Mission Hill and the Fenway. She's been an active parent with the Boston schools for six years. Tell me how did you first become involved with the Boston public schools. I became involved because I felt it was necessary if I wanted to if I wanted my children to obtain good education. And I felt that the only way that I was going to accomplish that for the benefit of my kids who cheer was by actually watching what was going on in my child's classroom. So what did you first do did you attend. Did you go to a class and I started visiting the school

just about once twice a week. In the call me. So to know the principal the teachers trying to find out what was going on because this particular school which is the Maoris J told in school has a large number of bilingual children and has a large number of bilingual parents or parents that do not speak English because I am bilingual. I sort of fell into a situation where I became everybody's translator and everybody's. People come to me to help them solve their problems. Actually helping them with communication with teachers principals in that made me very aware of what the good things of the school and also the bad things of the school and the need for organizing in changing some of the situations. That's how I became interested.

Did you begin organizing any particular kinds of campaigns. They're the Tobin school. Yes actually I did I what I did was I felt I'm trying to remember I feel that it was necessary to do it in an organized manner because staf in this school in that particular school at the time were very well organized. They had eight hours a day with a salary to do all this work and we as parents were actually volunteering our time and just didn't have the time so I immediately recognized that and organize what we call the Mission Hill educational committee at the time. And it was composed of parents and we were able to get some teachers interested on this committee and we started addressing some of the issues. Which immediately took those directly to the school committee because many of the issues could not be addressed locally. Then we got involved

in the desegregation issue and we got involved in choosing our principal there at the Tobin school at the Tillman school and the principal still there was the work you were doing all with bilingual education. Not really. I have of course many bilingual parents come to me I belong to groups with plenty more parents but I do work with all parents. BLOCK Why I don't care as long as they have an educational problem. I work with them and have helped organize train parents. As long as their parents. My concern is getting quality education and equal education for all kids for a long time we did this as a volunteer right. That's you know right now. Now you're finally working and getting paid for doing the right thing for five years for five years. Yes I'll do it for 20 more if I have to. I really believe on it I

I really believe that all children have a right for a good education. Did your own kids have problems with the top in school that really drew you in there. No really. I when my child was still in kindergarten I had problems because he was in a classroom that was supposed to be a bilingual classroom so happened that the teacher was not bilingual. Yes a parent. I didn't realize that at that time the whole kindergarten bilingual can gun did not exist. So there will get a room full of bilingual kids. This particular room had 20 something kids. All monolingual as my child and my child became the translator of the classroom. It was the second teacher in that bother me a lot and it bothered me because I felt that it was my child was

no longer a child in the room but the other kids were looking at him as somebody to have sorry day when he really didn't didn't. So he didn't really enjoy his kindergarten years. One of the things that you had talked to me about before was that your daughter who is 17 is is also bilingual and has particular problems because she's she speaks a lot of English and a lot of Spanish but isn't completely comfortable in either language. OK one of the problems is particularly in the Hispanic community and I imagine in though the bilingual communities is that our children are the first generation born in this country in the tendency and for very good reasons is that our children are at home speak their own native language. In my home Spanish is spoken. And when they go to school they go oh maybe you know in a few words in

English but not enough English in order to communicate or read or write. What happens is that because they go to school six hours a day and are dealing with English and they come home and it's a completely different world because it goes into another language. Our child our children never feel secure in either of their languages. For example my daughter that is in high school right now was not doing or producing the type of work she's capable to do because she was so in secured about both English and Spanish. I remember times when I was called in for conferences telling me that my daughter really had a problem because she had an accent and I just couldn't believe it because for me she does not I could not hear this but this was some of the problems that she was dealing with as a youngster in maybe her children will be able to completely get away from this. But the reality is that most of our

children are first generation in. On lez the kind of background that we're trying to raise our kids on in relation to culture and language is mounting. Well. They will strive for the kill for their children to have the same type of life in the same type of language. But we cannot guarantee that. But I know that is unjust and unfair not to allow a child to be Bella because there is a language problem. What are some of the problems that happen. I think you had mentioned something about. There's a it doesn't go beyond insecurity to almost like a confusion about both languages. It's a serious Confucian. It's it's a feeling all of you know being worth it. I cannot compete. I'm not equal to my other classmates.

I'm different that that becomes very loud and clear. One of the things that I tried to the one year was to send my kids to Puerto Rico and they went to school to Puerto Rico for a year. It was a mistake. It created more confusion because they also found out that they were not aseptic there because they were Americans. In in there our tendency here is to raise them with the idea all you are is a Puerto Rican Colombian Greek whatever in. Well when they go back they don't have any identity. So it creates more confusion. They don't have a war. Really they're not accepted here and they're not accepted in the in the country of their parents. And it's hard for a child to deal with that. I want to get back to what the All those parents were coming together from all those languages. What are some of the problems that the kids are having. What are some of the things that they're

concerned about so they're attending all these meetings and doing all these things. Parents are very very concerned about does my child gets homework. Does my teacher is really not just teaching my language but also teaching English. Is the school clean. Is the principle being fair with bilingual children and staff. Does the district superintendent take in account that there is bilingual children in his or her district and share monies and programs equally. Does the state with her 636 funding make sure that bilingual programs are funded in the bilingual Tzschirner are included in all programs. Does the state police the pile ations that are in the Boston public schools do they do something about it just file them away. Do you buy into a war that has been our experience

and will hopefully going to set off next year to deal with with the violation of the mileage is from here to eternity we just finished doing monitoring. The whole CD on buying was location and some other things with saw were incredible. How is the bilingual system education system supposed to work. What's supposed to happen and what does happen. What's supposed to happen for what I understand in my in my years of involvement is that children has the same equal opportunities that all the children in the system that means books. That means paper that means pencils that means teachers. That does not happen. We have many teachers working with our books. We had a very interesting there was an interesting interview to one of the television were a state official said bilingual children do not need books.

Why so. We would like to know why it didn't make any sense. Because they do it in books just like any other child. We probably need twice as many books because they need both their own language and English books. So all those issues are very important. Well I was wondering how the bilingual classes set up are they. Is it all Hispanic Spanish speaking students in one bilingual class or are they divided up by language. The bilingual classes you know one language in one question one one language and one one class with one teacher if is 15 children one teacher. If it's over 16 children one teacher and one teacher's aide. And so it would be say Chinese bilingual class as I was managed bilingual class right now and how much time are the other students in all bilingual curriculum so that all their classes are bilingual or

are they sometimes in other classes in predominately English speaking classes. No they are all in barely more classes full time. What happens is that when this to the first coming to the program. Do you get a certain amount of English in there more. The more years during the program it becomes harder and harder and to gradually they go into the regular program. That is the goal. How does that work though they're in there in a bilingual class and so are they taking some classes in English. A little at a time. It happens usually when the teacher does saw the penny will teacher decides to make an assessment at this child. It's almost ready for regular classes. He could exchange classes with an English speaking teacher. The other. Issue is that bilingual teachers are supposed to be just that bilingual so they are capable of teaching

English and whatever other language they're supposed to teach. Well what I wonder is if somebody gets fluent enough say spends five years in bilingual classes I don't know how many years how many 3 3 3 years in bilingual classes and then moves into the English speaking classes. How do you maintain the the first language. How do you maintain the first culture. OK. God's part of our planet and nothing has been done up until now to do that is with the assuption. High school that if a child or the parent it's aware and alert the child will have the opportunity strictly with the Hispanic child prolly or the French child to use a tape for Spanish or French language but that's about all it's available right now. Well your daughter is also in a bilingual class. That's correct and what it what kind of a class is that the high school class.

She has a high school class where she's gaining strength and confidence in both English and Spanish writing skills and just confidence from a teacher that is completely bilingual. So it's a it's a kind of a backup supportive exonerating Yes. Is that available for all kids. Bilingual kids throughout the city it is have a label for bilingual kids to other city at the high school level. So those kids are taking a one class. They're not in a whole bilingual program. They're taking one bilingual just climbing skills class that helps them with help them you know really truthfully help them with. With the confidence that they in me otherwise they couldn't and never made it to the other classes in the regular program never because they didn't have that confidence. Has it helped your daughter a lot. I would use is incredible. She was very discouraged two years ago talking about dropping out of school. I don't want to go to school. It was a heavy

struggle getting her to go to school. Now she's graduating this year coming up very enthusiastic planning to go to the University of Washington D.C. and going to law school and I have to be very honest aside from my pushing. I give a lot of credit to those teachers about high school that help her and help her gain the confidence and help her understand that there was nothing wrong and that you will some her fault that she was law and you know that she had a background just as she had and that it wasn't shameful that it was it was a plus and that's what she says and Don talks very proudly about that. I remember that she said she was glad she was going to have two languages because she felt it would help her out in the in the job market. I still wonder though how you managed to do all that you do. I mean how what is what a typical week like for you. It's crazy.

I'm locking all of my children are OK. How old are they with their 9 12 15 16. I say though because their parents proselytes still have babies. I do you know personally I've been involved in community organizing for 15 20 years. My mother's going to organize and in the stand saw my children had been raised in an environment were there always been meetings and always going on that I had helped them to be very much you're independent. So now it's not just me involved it's my kids are involved in student government and councils of their own. So he has brought strength to our whole family and he has the responsibility at a very early age that I think is going to help them in the future. So how many nights a week do you attend meetings.

Just about every night and sometimes Sundays sometimes Sundays just Sundays. Yes. Before you were paid before you working at the CIA officers. How could you manage to do that how could you give that time. My husband worked in it. I don't know what kind of a person I am but I'm a terrible person that I don't need much money to live on you know what I can live with $10 today into tomorrow. Well you know I'm not striving to have a mansion and two Cadillacs or nothing like that. Those are not my goals in life. All this is that I feel they're more important in life. So I manage in my children are easier that tie both of sinking of. They have to have all what comes out and the new discourse sets and all I like I hear all the kids so we have we lived in a poor environment.

That's what I should say you know economic wise family wise I think very rich in. And we're happy in were happy doing what we're doing and the whole family's involved including my house with my kids everybody. Does your husband like all your the time you spend away I mean. Yes and he goes to he's going to go through it. That's right that's a it's a whole family of meeting people. Do you as a woman is work was this kind of volunteer work good for you and good for your ability to actually get someplace where people would listen to your ideas. That's a touchy chorus coming from the community come from as a woman. Yes it helped me develop a lot. It helped me to understand a whole lot of age it was very hard and it's still very hard because in the Hispanic community in particular most if you look as I hate these who are but leadership

it's mainly male. And when a woman comes along people get very often and very on the defensive either beginning used to bother me a lot. But with the help of my husband I guess my own drive. I decided I have a brain. I have a MA AND I CAN'T THINK I CAN THEY decisions in what I make a mistake. If you are male or female I don't care if you call my attention. But I got something at stake and if I'm good to have four children I'm good to fight for the rights of my children my own and my family. And you're not going to make me feel guilty because I'm a woman. That's what I am. And you're going to respect me for what I do by my sex. And I really believe that very strongly. It's all the volunteers and has gotten you into really. I mean if you had to take in a job of some kind you wouldn't be meeting with the same people that you're meeting with now I think you have a lot more power.

Yes that is correct. And also jobs. I think people myself I should say people my understanding is that you have to be very very careful on how hard do you take a job when you have set up your calls to see changes for doctors changes particularly for poor people urban people because it could mean that you get a job and you might need a nice steak for dinner but you cannot sleep at night. I always say that because you have to compromise your principles. You have to do a lot of things you don't believe on in Star Wars that that's that's my opinion. I had taken this job with the community this week Advisory Council because I honestly believe that my principles and what I believe on is the same thing they believed on the day.

I believe that that is not happening. I with a smile will leave and I will not miss that paycheck and I will keep on doing what I've been doing. But you got to set up your mind that that's what you're going to do. Because if you decide to get a job and buy this house somewhere buy all these things that are necessary then you're in trouble. What about your kids schooling. Are they are they all in public school. No they're not. I have two children in public school two children private school why one child is my son which I had a bad experience was. How long did you leave him in public school. Two years. Two years too long. I feel that that is you don't play with your children's education and I don't care how much rhetoric I hear every day from the Boston public schools on how great they are. I know better because I see things that what's going on every day.

I am striving to change that and I will give all the time necessary to change that. Paid or not pay. But I cannot sacrifice my children future that way. Are you sorry that your two older daughters went all the way through the public schools. No no I am not in. They have had both do do in the time both public school and private school. I am not sorry. Because they have been able to cope in RAW and struggling with the whole idea. My two little ones go into the public schools very seriously struggling with it because I'm also finding no that I'm not getting for the private schools what I'm paid for. Are you getting bilingual education in the private schools. No I am not and that's something you want and that's something that I desperately want. That's

one. Number two if I look at reading scores for a private school and reading scores from the Boston Public School they're both awful. And you saw that there really bothers me. You know I'm struggling right now what now that the school is over. You know what is it. I got to make a decision. So as an activist you feel that you can still put your children in private school if that's what you need for them. I was saying that one of the things that a parent has to do is to be very honest about what they're doing. In if you don't feel comfortable if you see the horror stories that I've been exposed to then you've got to be very honest I say that publicly. As a poor person the only thing I can leave my children. It's an education because that's something no one can take away from them. And also as a minority person in good you have to be honest and say that. You know I'm not cop you know. I'm willing to help and I'm willing to fight if

necessary. I could be productive and I could be terrible. But I'm not going to sacrifice the only thing that I can leave my child. You've been involved for six years with the schools. Have things changed. Is it any better than it was before. Some things are better. OK. If you look back parents didn't have any access to schools for the whole disaggregation. I remember going to a dummy school to the side door. They would let you in the front don't let us into the front door and it was very systematic black and Hispanic areas that will decide oh I remember those days. OK. So that has changed. I could go to the front door and now I could join our Parents Council at the school. I could ha made a citizens I could have beis principles I I could look at

curriculum. Ok so things have change. It got a long ways to go. He's not all there. There's a lot of things that are not being say that should be say publicly. I also like what kinds of you know the whole issues that have been made publicly about absent is about not just the students but staff. The whole issue of racist and racial problems within the school buildings that kind of thing has to be made public every time it happens. That has not been done and it's necessary to be done. But. Overall. The day has been some changes. They have been some openness some but I still feel it was going to take a while because we still

have as I call the same players in the system and they might not say it upfront anymore they have become more sophisticated so it's here. There are many of us have been around for a long time can recognize any final words about bilingual education and your experience and as an activist. My final words and my dreams will be that in the near future the Boston community will understand where the plight of the bilingual community is in that not only was strife a binding word location for bilingual children or children that call to another country but for all children in the Boston public school system because it is at that age it's it's applause for a child that lives in there been in an urban situation because most of the children that go to the public schools call home

from families low income. And the majority of cases and we need to give our children as much as we can educationally. OK thank you very much. Thank you.