Massachusetts Viewpoint; Saltonstall

Massachusetts viewpoint Senator Leverett souls installer looks at Massachusetts in this the third in a weekly series of discussions between the press and Massachusetts personalities in the news. Our moderator is Dr. Franklin Patterson director of the Lincoln for the Center for citizenship and public affairs at Tufts University. Now here is Dr. Patterson this evening we have the great privilege of having on Massachusetts viewpoint Senator lever self-install who is senior United States senator from Massachusetts and senior Republican member of the United States Senate Appropriations Committee Armed Services Committee and small businesses Committee. In addition of course senators almost all brings to this conversation this evening many years of background and experience as a top leader in his party in this state and in the nation as a whole. Also with us this evening. As interrogators questioners interviewers are two distinguished newspaper man Mr SJ McKee who is State House correspondent for The Boston Globe.

And Mr. Edgar Mills who is New England political editor of The Christian Science Monitor both of these men are going to have tough questions to put to Senator self-install and questions which I'm sure he's prepared to handle. I'm going to call first clause first of all upon Mr. Mills who has I think a question or two about the space program and its relationship to Massachusetts sought it with all these developments in space and their effect on Massachusetts. What specifically is coming up soon that will benefit Massachusetts as regards space work. Well that's difficult to say because we have to get authorization. Then we have to get the appropriation after the authorization. And there's a difference of opinion today really as to how fast we should go to the mall. In other words President Eisenhower feels that we should make progress in the general space area without concentrating too much on the effort to get to the moon first. While there are other people

who feel that we should make every effort that we can to get to the moon before the Soviets get there what do I take it that this Space Center that we've been talking about in Boston has not yet been authorized by Congress it is my understanding that it has not yet been authorized. We have here in Massachusetts a space laboratory or a laboratory that MIT Massachusetts technology has and that the money has that for that has been appropriated and that will proceed. Then we have this big space laboratory which has not yet been authorized but which the president in his message suggested that should be put in Boston. Do you feel we have a good chance of getting that. I think we have a good chance of getting it of course by the president putting in Boston in his message. It is roused the opposition to say that it should go to other places. And New Jersey wants it I think California or Texas wants it and so it goes.

But I think that if we get the authorization for the laboratory then we have a good chance of getting appropriations for here or in the greater Massachusetts area and I say the greater mass hysteria because it might split up into other sections of New England as well as in Massachusetts. Senator I wonder Mr. Miller is one also wondering what the impact of such a move my employment possibilities on opportunities here in Massachusetts a book Herb's. Well I think that it's not I think it will improve of course. I think we can look forward to greater employment in that in that laboratory. Oh for several years at the earliest. And then how many people it will employ outside of these scientists. I have no idea at the moment I've never heard a figure through Mr. Magic you know I think you have a question have you from some of the pending before the Senate at the moment. President Kennedy's public works bill was cut by 50 million dollars reducing it down to 450 million. The original bill provided 32 million dollars for

Massachusetts for various projects. How do you feel about this particular bill from. Well I think that the Senate will undoubtedly pass celebrated public works bill. Now whether it will be in the full amount passed by the House of 450 million it's hard to say at the moment. I know there are a number of us on the Appropriations Committee who will feel that we should cut down where we can cut down. And I think possibly we were to try to make a cut on that 450 million. Whether we succeed or not is an open question. There will be no attempt to restore the $50000000 of the house cut in this I would be surprised if there was one other bills under 600. Pending that would be of great benefit to him as well. President Senator Kennedy and I have filed a number of bills on the problems of the fishing industry. I think the fishing industry has been stimulated this year to try to get more up to date equipment and to get more opportunities. That's coming

principally because the Russians have come over here and are fishing in our waters. What we have always considered our waters although there are international waters with input that is much better than our equipment. And along those lines we filed a bill that would make it possible to have two prototype. Up to date crawlers would still drag trawlers. Now whether that would go through or not is an open question but we have made that endeavor. Mr Meldrum question you're getting close to Souter about this. A Republican state committee battle over the chairmanship. There seems to be some resentment develop among the committee members because you turn to General Brooks sent a letter to the committee asking for the selection of John Whitehead as the next chairman. Any comment that's maybe the committee meets next Monday.

You have to know how I've been criticized because I had not exercised enough leadership. I've been criticized No because I was attempted without saying vote for any one person to recommend for that member of consideration other members of the state committee with the cooperation of the attorney general broke the name of Whitehead Don Whitehead. Now we didn't say vote for him. We simply said that after surveying the picture we felt that he would make the best chairman that we could get at the present time to head the State Committee. Senator do you feel that that's the way they are far more qualified than Mr. Du Mesne for the job. Well comparisons are odious and personality and I don't want to get into personalities I made my recommendation. Bucky Demain is a personal friend of mine and has been for a number of years. He hasn't been as closely associated with Republican politics as had Don Whitehead who has worked on several campaigns

for candidates is and who is the chairman I believe of the Stoughton town committee at the present time because it's all a sign of the how the the telegram signed by yourself and Mr. Brooks came about. Yes it came about because Phil Allen talked with me and told me that it was his intention to resign and that he had made up his mind firmly to resign. Broke broke and I talked several times over the telephone and in personal conferences regarding possibilities. And we came finally to conclusion after talking with various people and discussing various possibilities upon Don Whitehead and show at the suggestion. Mr. Allen I pushed really drafted that telegram. I've got to say just one thing here is your MODERATOR Senator Lincoln filing center at Tufts is rather gratified to see white hand being considered at least because

he was recently a public affairs fellow for a year at the Lincoln filing center so we hope that perhaps some of this is rubbed off on what he's presently doing Mr. Miller you know actively going to work farmers to white heads seem like well I'd reckon I've recommended him if people ask my advice as to who to vote for. I shall follow my recommendation otherwise I wouldn't be sincere symmetric with respect to another Republican Party problem within the state of Massachusetts. And this is the feeling divided feeling with respect to the pre-primary conventions. You were chairman of the last convention which we had a few disruptions during the during the long. QUESTION Do you feel we should continue to have the PRI for everything. I certainly do Charlotte. I think the pre-primary convention with all its difficulties was it was a criticism leveled against it is better than just straight popular primary. I say that because it gives people who are interested in their party an opportunity to

discuss these questions go to a convention and vote. Now if they make a great mistake and vote for the wrong fellow then they can be a popular primary after. But what I think the recent contest has shown is that the select Dia's of the convention have such a great opportunity that it was hardly worth while to contest them. Do you feel then that the Republican State Committee chairman should exert all his influence in behalf of the convention endorse candidates. Well that remains an open question I think that that's up to the chairman himself when he sees who the various candidates may be for a certain position. If there's one outstanding candidate for governor for instance and several people who really haven't got any church and who would just muddy the waters then I think he could take active participation and help if there are two equally good candidates then possibly he's got to use his discretion.

Do you think the convention ought to be strengthened actually in its relationship to the primary do you think that primaries should be limited to candidates who have had say 20 percent of the vote in the convention. Well I think that it should be Mr. Patterson some fair discrimination of character in other words a person who hasn't gotten any votes certainly shouldn't be given an equal opportunity with a man who has won the votes of the majority of the members of the convention. I think 20 percent 25 percent maybe all right. I hadn't thought that one out so thoroughly as I believe in the principle of the pre-primary convention. Sure enough Mr. Mills and I want to come in with a question. Do you feel like you know uses other pre-primary convention system have not eliminated so they are now operating in a fear of one of my board members. Well I think there will always be abuses they are alledged abuses depending on whether the contest is very close and very exciting. I don't think you can ever eliminate the abuses that may arise from.

Convocation will say you have a big group of people whether it be a national convention or a statewide convention you will call out in Chicago at a national convention where the mayor of Chicago got a whole lot of people on the floor to holler and yell for a candidate and it and it all helped you feel is any truth to her charges of vote buying or things like that. I hope it's not just going to I hope not. Mr. Mitchell You will come back with some of the course you recall that Dan White has supported Lawrence Curtis in a move that was in defiance of the convention last fall. Do you feel that as a result of this he can reconcile his positions with now as chairman of the Republicans the committee strengthen the conventions so why do we yes certainly I think Don Whitehead was invited by candidate Kurdish to join with him. One of the reasons if you will by I think you might pick a good judge chairman at the present time is that he'd been through that campaign. He helped me

1960 and he's had a good deal of experience in running a campaign. Do you feel that Mr. Brown. Oh is that where you had your first choice for the chairmanship. I have nothing to say on that. Here is the president's choice. You can see our newspaperman are boring in on this vital question again and again Mr. Murphy. Senator one on another matter that is pending now in Congress that has a great deal of effect. Massachusetts this is President Kennedy's proposed tax cut. Do you favor or do you oppose the tax plan and why. Saul it's too early to say. I want to favor a tax cut but I want to favor a tax cut only if there is some reduction in our overall federal expenditures. You must realize that today we will expect to spend this year something around I think it is one hundred seven billions of dollars. There is the new NOAA as we call it new obligates Tory authority is ninety eight billions

of dollars. Now if we're going to spend over that this year we've got to see whether we're going to go whether the taxes will come anywhere near meeting it. Now the present tax base is around 85 billions and if we reduce that a senator as President Kennedy has suggested to 75 billion over three years we've got a spread between 75 billion and the possibility of one hundred seven billions of dollars now that's got to be made up by increased tax revenues coming in from a greater productivity and. I question whether that will be whether that will be snow and therefore we've got to see what we can do to reduce the new obbligato Jory authority which is the NOAA as we call it which is before Congress at the present time. Then I take it Senator you don't agree with the theory of the president reducing taxes you return more money into the consumer Well I think we may Sol increase the number of taxes or the amount of taxes that come in to a degree. But whether we can accomplish

the spread of between 75 billion and over 100 billion remains to be seen. And therefore I think it's very essential that we try to do our best to reduce the expenditures contemplated expenditures of the federal government. Mr. Mills I'm going to my where I was believe the budget could be how much too much it could be cut without hurting. Well I don't think it can be cut necessarily as much as some of the figures that you see in the mills say 10 billions of dollars or something like that. I hope that we can cut say somewhere between three and five billions of dollars I think that's an optimistic I think 5 billions is probably on the optimistic side. We're going to do you really want terriers can be cut. Well the Armed Services Committee of which I am a member and the Senate which followed the Armed Services Committee report cut I think some 300 between three and four hundred million dollars also a procurement Bill procurement for the hardware

of the armed services. Now some of that some of what we put in for instance for two new IRS seventy three supersonic bombers may not be used by the Defense Department so if they don't use that money the cut will be even more substantial. Now that's only an authorization now of course the appropriations can't even cut that back further. I mentioned that 700 million. I mention that. Four hundred fifty million or 700 million cut from the Defense Department recommendations. Then you have the security bill or the foreign aid as it's called where General Clay recommends a cut of 500 million dollars. President Kennedy has already cut his original demand and which And I think Congress will cut even further. How deep you know he's going to be cutting foreign aid beyond the recent recommendations. Well some people feel very strongly that it should be cut very substantially. I've always been on the side that we've got to have foreign aid. And I've always been on the higher

rather than the lower side. Now this year the House will recommend a very substantial cut. And. I will hesitate to advocate too much of that being put back. When are you going to mitigate some of the return to Massachusetts politics for the moment. There's a report around the state house that you sought to communicate with Mrs. heckler with respect to the appointment of an appeal his appointment of Parliament and his registrar motor vehicles. I did not. Categorically not. Rather I believe that is her decision to make. And incidentally she told me that she told me in conversation I think much certainty that she had made up her mind to load against it. Now I had no comment and no discussion with her a tall I had made no recommendations to her and certainly I tried very hard since I've been in Washington not to make recommendations on appointments we clean that one up.

Mr. Mr. King I wonder before we go on with Massachusetts politics and what Senator might have to say about this I wonder Senator Saltonstall would like to comment at all on the governor's tax proposals here in the state you know in addition to the federal picture we have the state picture to think of two weeks ago tonight we had quite a discussion between Mr Capel us and Senator Graham about the present people the proposals with regard to tax increases in the state would you want to say a word about Miss Patterson I'd say this since I've been in Washington now for 18 years I've tried not to take pot in any state legislation whether the governor be a Republican or a Democrat because if I if I get mixed up in advocating things within the state and in the state legislature then I lose what little influence of what influence I have and I hope it's more than a little at times in my business in Washington. So I would have no comment on that. And I can say truthfully I have not followed it. Fair enough I think you have Mr. Milton and Mr. missing out on one Massachusetts

piece of legislation that perhaps you would cut at having been governor for six years. What do you feel about a four year term constitutional amendment. One guy I think getting that it would be helpful. And you know I was I if I have to vote on that as a as a citizen of Massachusetts I'd vote in favor of it. I wonder Senator saw your comment as he did the other day and I talk on the figure of Harrison and Richardson in Worcester to secure a Defense Department contract for M-14 production. Well I think that's unfortunate because I think Harrington and Richardson will have to close down or liquidate that business. Now the Harrington Richardson was the biggest I think I'm quite say the biggest manufacturer of M1 rifles during World War 2. Of any concern they were made by Harrington riches and they had made by the Springfield Armory and I think one other

concern outside of Massachusetts now the M1 rifles while we still have a very substantial inventory of them is being displaced by the M-14 rifle. Now the M-14 rifle the WHO has experimented with in the Springfield Armory I think experimented with to a certain degree in Harrington Richardson in Worcester. Now the other. Companies one big other company outside of Massachusetts has been brought in to that business and its offer was lower in the opinion of some people than the Harrington Richardson office there is a dish a difference of opinion in that. But the present Defense Department has stated unequivocably that will not get a new contract for the M4 M-14 rights for all of the the Defense Department will help them to get other business if they can do it. But so far that hasn't been developed about 900 jobs and I believe there are about 900

jobs involved. Mr. Miller in the end I would say addition to that Mr. Patterson There are of course a number of subcontractors who are also rules out myself. Mr. Mills Do you feel like masters is getting a fair share of the defense contracts now. Well all I can say is early last year the year before I had not the exact figures before me we got all of 4 percent. The contracts are the Defense Department for Point 2 or 3 where we have 2.9 percent of the population and I think we rank either third or fourth state in the union. As to the number of dollars of defense contractors on that whole subject do you think that it is perhaps economically unwise to depend so much on defense contracts for comics. Well I think the more we yes I do I think the more of a comely. Whether it be in Massachusetts or California can diversify its product and get away from being contracted is big business with the government

is a wise thing. Now I say that because of course we change very quickly we're changing now from airplanes to missiles and we're changing this M-14 right for us and this is a new great example. And so we change very quickly as new research develops and if a company is completely dependent and can't go into the new effort then it suffers. Mentor Mr. Mitchell congressman and senators from other states have been complaining quite vehemently about undue influence on the secure defense contracts in Massachusetts. You have any rebuttal. Well I feel this way Sol I feel that as a as a senator from this state and I'm sure that I think I would speak also for my colleague that we should do everything that we can properly to get a contract to get business here in Massachusetts. Now that means that we that we've got to be the low bidder are if it's a negotiated contract we've got to show

that we can do the job. I certainly have done what I could to get business to come here to Massachusetts. But I never so far as I can remember has done anything that I didn't consider was proper. In other words I didn't say that was they should take an inferior product or that it should be necessarily at a higher price. Untreated you say that the comments by these critics from outside Massachusetts just sour grapes. Well I think sour grapes is a difficult term. I think I understand it. I think it we all competing for contracts down there where we can get them. I don't know any senator that isn't so when they don't get them and maybe a little gloomy for the moment. Mr Mills changing the subject rather radically I noticed this week that you have called our congressional investigation of the submarine disaster. Well that isn't quite accurate. That's what is in the papers and on the radio. What newspaper reporter called me up and I told him that I believe that the Senate

preparedness subcommittee of the Armed Services Committee of which I'm the senior Republican should should as a part of his business get all the facts that it can. After the board of inquiry is completed its Would I think we will. But when you use the Broadwood investigation I don't mean necessarily that we should investigate where the board of inquiry is investigated but I think we should get the facts as a part of our job. You think you can develop new material through study of your own. Not necessarily develop new butyrate but certainly wish we could where there's any differences of opinion we ought to get them just the same way we're working now down. In Cuba I think we have time now for one more question from Mr. Mills and Mr. Magic. Mr. Mills Well how about this whole issue of tariff regulations. Are the new regulations going to be very harmful to Massachusetts industry. Why. Eddie I think they're going to be very difficult for Massachusetts illustrate. We're all we're up against the cotton textile situation which is now temporarily

solved by a gentleman's agreement if you will with Japan. And we've got the Question of the wool industry it was competition in England and Italy and again I think in Japan and we have current petition with bicycles. And just recently Senator Kennedy and I filed a bill with the like it was a relation to electric clocks which are now coming in from Japan and throwing the General Electric in the employees here in Berlin out of work. Mr. Miller Mr. Miller your final question Senator with respect to these tariff regulations when can misuse is feeling the effects of it is a very very difficult question and it involves the European Common Market. It involves debt so-called which is an international grouping of trying to work out tariff reductions here and there and it involves our whole relationship with Europe. For instance I believe that one quarter of the automobile accidents sold in Europe today were manufactured in Europe amid a factory by American

concerns and the American businessman has increased his investment abroad very very substantially in the last 10 years. We have all kinds of those questions and it's very aggressive to note that one of the hot ones before Congress a couple weeks ago was on the export of chickens when France and Germany put up the tariffs from 4 cents to 12 cents. They practically eliminate our export of broilers. Now that is that's affects Arkansas or and Georgia principal. We have we sent over a day old chicks here so that it doesn't affect us so very much as I understand it. Well when you come down to chickens and the balance of funds and there's a golden going out of our country and you realize how important these questions are. Thank you very much Senator. I'm sorry to cut in gentlemen but we have come to the end of our half hour. I want to say that we're very grateful tonight to have had with us Senator Leverett

Sultan stall a senior United States senator a senator from Massachusetts and with him two distinguished newspaper men Mr. S. J. Mitch a key state House correspondent for The Boston Globe. And Mr. Ed your MIL's New-England political editor for The Christian Science Monitor. Tonight our discussion on Massachusetts viewpoint has ranged over a number of items. These have fallen into two principal categories. One the discussion with Senator Sauls install of certain major pieces of federal legislation that bear upon the future of Massachusetts including particularly reference to such items as the space program of the federal government as it may affect us here in this commonwealth including also attention to bills that have been introduced by Senator Salton stall and Senator Kennedy relating to fishing and relating to public works and other matters. In addition we gentlemen have discussed the federal tax program the question of the impact of tariff adjustments on the Massachusetts economy and a number of

other things in addition to the. Discussion this evening has dealt with to some extent the question of Massachusetts politics and our newspaperman guests questioned senators almost all rather directly about several things he parried some of their questions very adroitly and answered others quite directly. He was asked particularly about the question before the Republican state committee on Monday next with regard to the selection of a new chairman and spoke about his interest in Mr. Whitehead. He was asked also about the pre-primary convention and his feelings in that regard. And very nicely sidestepped a question about the Peabody tax proposals. All in all this has been an interesting and helpful discussion of Massachusetts viewpoint. Thank you gentleman. You've been listening to Massachusetts viewpoint the third in a weekly series of discussions between members of the press and Massachusetts personalities in the news. Tonight's guests were Senator Leverett self-install S.J. Mitchell State

House correspondent for The Boston Globe and Edgar Mills New England political writer of The Christian Science Monitor. Dr. Franklin Patterson director of the Lincoln for the Center for citizenship and Public Affairs Tufts University was moderator this program was produced for WGBH FM by Carolyn is Barry.