The First Amendment; Turner / Walsh: Cops-Mediation

The. WGBH Boston in cooperation with the Institute for Democratic communications at the School of Communications at Boston University now presents the First Amendment and a free people and examination of civil liberties in the media in the 1970s. And now here is the director of the Institute for democratic communication Dr. Bernard Reuben. One of the features of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was the creation in the Department of Justice of the community relations service and the job of the service was to mediate when things got bad on any racial question or on any question where various components of a community were in trouble with one another to act as the impartial mediator to come in with some good advice to try to get the resolution of the problem solved peacefully and in the general community interest. I'm delighted today that two of the more experienced people from that service. Mr. Martin Walsh the

regional director and Mr. Laurence Turner the mediator here in Boston. Are with me gentlemen I'd like to start out by asking you first. The service is obviously necessary. You get people talking. You get people expressing their views and coming to understand how they can get beyond the nub of the problem that they're all hung up on whether it's a riot in a school whether it's a protest against an industrial expansion in a community that seems to be disturbing a neighborhood whether it's or something of that general type one way or another. The service though was cut back from a very modest funding Pryde in 1973 about six and a half million dollars cut back by almost half the following year. Poe's I throw the question out to Mr. Walsh.

How on earth do you do your job across the country in your 10 districts with only a hundred and three people on active duty. Oh it makes it very difficult to do so Dr. Ruben. Before we were cut back we had 350 people which at that time we didn't feel was sufficient either to to do the carry out the mandate which Congress had given us to assist communities resolve and work through these racial problems. So we have had to cut back the scope of our work and the amount of problems we can respond to. I for example. Our whole crisis prevention type of work of working in communities on some long range types of resolutions to the deep ingrained problems has had of been cut back. And last year for example of the over 1000 alerts or or reports to us of problems in communities we were unable to respond to over 600 of those. So that is the

that is the consequence of being cut back that we've had to deal with fewer the problems and we have not been able to do the entire type of or panorama of response which would like to do and and provide to American communities. Mr. Turner when you're out on a case I don't know if you call them cases you call them case yes. And the situation is pretty active. I use that phraseology. Do you sometimes feel that you are like Goliath and you like some support structure some support system some army behind you to do what you need to pass your papers to to get that group moving. Oh yes we go there quite often and we also find that city officials and community groups or community leaders will feel the same way and that's what makes for that proper mixture of all of us feeling that something has to be done and not having enough resources ourselves to do it that time brings about a joint effort. Let's do something together and someone has to take the initiative.

And based on their experiences there are staff that have gone into situations like this. It's a good resource for community people for both official and just plain citizens who are involved as leaders to come together and it helps out this force pulling together something quickly rather than waiting for a long period of time which sometimes will happen. Most of these will pull it together sometimes it happens much later so it makes you makes you more expert as you go along the line. So let's take a couple of cases if we may. For example you were probably not involved yourselves in this particular case I don't know where you were but there was a case involving a McDonald's hamburgers in the South Side of Chicago. Perhaps you might. For those of in the audience who think that the community relations service spends all of its time on desegregation of the schools or any other particular topic sometimes you spend it on places that serve cheeseburgers and hamburgers and so on. I think Donald what basically was the situation there in the South Side of Chicago.

The basic situation was that McDonald's was going to be opening up a store an outlet in the South Side of Chicago in the community people were very much concerned about the franchise being opened there. You know the problems which I think would be created in that neighborhood so it with the general opposition to it are our staff was called into the conflict the dispute that was developing there to see what could be done. So the community had a first that this start was to stop the whole process of first place because if they do. Social consequence they felt that were intolerable my baby hanging out and things like this. So the issues our job was to narrow down the issues and get the two groups talking together to see whether some type of compromise could be worked out. It was worked out so some of the issues which which which were put on the table in the mediation process which are our staff member one of our mediators handled in which

McDonald's in the community agreed to participate and were narrowed down to such things as employment were would groups be allowed to loiter loitering in the lights. The health effect upon the community. And what did what it did was to open up things which were broader than the narrow topic of whether it's coming in or not coming in and really develop a community relations program from that store of McDonald's to the South Side of Chicago. You know that on that particular occasion the service had the active cooperation of the McDonald's Corporation. Right. What to go to another kind of situation. Gentlemen what happened in Clinton Massachusetts. Well known to Americans as the place that President Carter visited one one day own in Clinton. There is a. One of our staff members conciliator Ed McClure was Saul in the paper with us so they came to

our attention that there had been a disturbance outside of a bar in Clinton between some of Hispanic community Puerto Rican specifically and some of the white community of Clinton and into this small community. Her conciliator Mr. Core went to just to check on that problem because it appeared as a major problem in the community because he had a brain bring police forces from all the surrounding area into that community and community to resolve that. So we made some few calls to some of the community leaders officials and to the citizens and discovered that there was a real breakdown in communications and a problem between Hispanic and the white community of Clinton. And so into that thing what we try to do and when there's a problem is to bring all of the resources of the community the factors in it to bear in order to help resolve

this. So one of the biggest employers in Clinton. It was was contacted and employs a number of Hispanic people and it became a major major force for some type of change because the Hispanic community not only was concerned about that fight but about the type of services which Clinton was provided to it. So what developed from that thing was an area know some of the problems in a a an attempt to set up some appropriate mechanisms to continue to deal with the problems between Hispanic communities in the in the total community of Clinton. And this little this crew a study panel for developing the Human Relations Commission the corporations the businesses really going to evolve. And I think what it started to do was to first of all bring before people that we have some communications problems and here are some mechanisms that can help us do it. And here are the issues that it can work on on on. Place problems on on employment on the general community relations type of concerns that

the Hispanic community has there well. I could ask you to go on with other illustrations but I'd like to break into it by saying Tell me about a typical day and since I know that today was was it a typical day when youre actively working. I know that there is no resolution of the things that you did today but perhaps instead of looking at it as a case that has a beginning and then tell me the kind of situations that you ran into today in regard to troubles at one Boston school presents to Turner. Well earlier in the week going to see worried in fact that it was past relevant last week that some of the students were going to boycott the high school in particular black students there are some concerns which were being expressed by parents and students and some community leaders which did occur. The boycott did occur on Monday and some students return to school Tuesday. Fuel But then on Wednesday there was a lot of difficulties. And this morning school officials along with parents were concerned for

the safety of students of the Arctic Sarah and Turner and requested a number of people be present at the school to help them as far as a day's activity and no rival school. Someone rest I think which is considered. There are some reporters you know and so this is in the media itself but the work of the staff the work of aides or in school or our activity there or the work of law enforcement officials the president the school and the surrounding area of the school etc. I think we have to be congratulated for handling a situation like this which could have become quite explosive. And the accident did occur. Kerr hall it was just as youngsters were changing classes at that point. Officials handled the situation right there. Why did on top of it did not allow it to spread. And as a result when I left there on 12 o'clock one o'clock I think one of control classes were changed. Still tensions there tension was in the school facilities tensions outside but official school and police officials

who had no did you. Did you stand by and observe most of this or did you did you participate or do you observe and then when the crucial moment comes in when there's an opportunity to bring leaders together or bring dissidence with administrators together or how does it work. Your is your major role one of participation or crucial. Crucial maneuvering at the right time in a place like this boss and it's it's the latter. What we we don't try to get involve in the immediate handling of the problem. It's other than advice to the principals there. If we feel that something should be done specifically on on a matter but for example in the in the south Boston thing we try to do is one of these would be gone tomorrow or Saturday for example is helping to train a new school school security force itself Boston High School. Now when you say that you helped to train just what role would you have and what we do on the training.

You'll be doing your training Larry and I and will will be bringing in two of our consultants from down in Baltimore who will be up here working with us. You know obviously you know training them in security you're training them in how to handle how to handle problems what we don't do two major things of how to prevent problems from taking place. What we do with some of the personal observations of TV training though preventing problems to take place like for example how to work with a student so that you know when problems are going to be taking place who the leadership leaders are how you can bring black and white leaders together to deal with the specific issues. The outreach into the community. The necessity of reaching out into the black in the white community deal with the leaders know it what the problems are. Help helping to set up a correct or positive information center so that like and for example South Boston in Roxbury the stories go back which are which are not actually there. Or they take a smattering off of some truth and then you know blowed it up and in what it does is to exasperate of a very difficult situation

which takes place in a school like South Boston High School. And so what we one of the things we are doing is training school security aids other things which we have done in the past is that for example help to advise on police restraint minds. For example the judge ordered at one time. Hundred yards the whole people congregated around any school. You have to be at least a hundred yards or more away from a school so that what we were having back in 1974 which we don't have now were crowds coming right up to the schools and this would incite further problems. And then we see how people are dealing with things what we will do is if we observe an official how he's dealing with it. Afterwards we'll sit down with them and go through a list of recommendations what we observe what we think they should be doing. Now I know that if you get the cooperation of the authorities the superintendents the teachers and so on.

Do you get the same kind of cooperation from the people in the streets. The people who are defending objecting soliciting their views are pressing their attitudes all these these descriptive phrases or do they thumb their nose at you sound times. Well sometimes they do. I for example. Take the difference between a Charlestown and a South Boston Charlestown. We help Charles downin in preparing for the circulation in Charlestown was just was and is just as adamant and adamantly opposed to busing as is South Boston. But inter hasn't been much change over three years you're saying you're right or in their attitude. But the thing is there hasn't been the type of violence that we systems in Charleston has in South Boston. There has been the conviction the philosophy the etiology has a say in Charlestown one so what makes up the difference. Well in like in Charleston before desegregation took place

975 the whole planning process went took place in this involved. The total spectrum of the Charleston community from those who are strong anti busters and the you know prone on the edges may be skirting the edges of violence to those who were much more tolerant but they were able to come together and meet on a weekly basis and discuss all these problems and come up with a philosophy that even though they were opposed to it they would not resort to violence. And it also that I must say they cooperated well with our agency. We were able to work with them. We were able to assist them provide and they take this is this in first this preplanning and the infrastructure was really not in your favor in the south Boston thing you're in for in effect our assistance to South Boston was resisted. The leadership in South Boston did not cooperate with us in trying to develop procedures mechanisms in order to forestall this type of violence from let's say that we take.

We better others. Mr. TURNER We take that to two groups. Desegregation of the schools pro Buster's anti-personnel by the way that's what only one segment of the school problem the busing problem. But which side would you get the most cooperation from. Would it be the people who are the pro busters or the anti Bursar's. If you had heard of my school situation no I think you'd get more more insight and an area where it's probably because not because the children are they see the children as being involved. More clearly is that the idea when they see him being involved you know. But they see this is something that's going to happen and they see the pastor as an improvement for the quality of education etc. This is when we're away. There are still people and the pro community was somewhat questionable about busing as the final way of doing this. But in both communities I think the thing that we have to find in all agencies that are involved is that

commonality is for its safety of the youngsters that are involved. Quality education for the young to recall is the word he goes to school. It does make sense to bus a youngster several blocks when he gets very sick from x to y you know stores the next of like yesterday and both him again a very inferior education so people want safety they don't want the youngsters you know I've been involved in fights except for now fine with that being as a common element there. Now to get the people together to sit and talk about it I think we have to get away from that. That concept is always a tendency when something happens in Boston you know people from other sections of the world look at it as Boston. It's not just South Boston or Charles Town. Likewise I think locally we have to get away from the point of looking at South Boston saying this is all South Boston it this way or this is all Roxbury this way and so I'm looking at there are some people in each community that feel pro a car and it may be causing trouble may not be causing trouble that may have some concerns that they feel are not being addressed at this time. And we've got to find some way to get them involved in a positive manner so they can sit down address those

concerns and not just address it as a group and told all the people there are some people in South Boston or quite concerned had you know been put to the test who are pro and that's a tough situation I've been there for years. They're people and pastor in Roxbury so who may not be in favor of you know so that you've got this in each neighborhood. But there's an effort that has to be continued. As for the safety of the houses as for the quality of education is involved there's a court order and there's a way of you know court orders and that will be an out in the street you know tackling or solve it basis that way. Right no. When it comes to a grievous situation like desegregation I get the impression impression sometimes that the press exacerbated by referring as Mr. Turner said to South Boston or South Boston's problem or Charles St. Charles sounds from a rock Sperry's peculiarity of

approach when people reading these newspapers in these various communities might actually be abetted in the wrong way if they don't see the in the media a better depiction of what is actually going on for example sometimes if they said you know we made X Y Z progress as you said Mr. Walsh over the last two years people might take great pride if they knew that that was progress instead of just another bit of trouble. Mr. Walsh is this farfetched or do you do you have general satisfaction with the way the media in general cover these situation not just here in Boston but throughout your experience. Well I think the media in Boston especially Sergei Should the way it's handled it has approached the. The type of professionalism in journalism which is is which is the Czar I think for example to contrast it with the national media. At the first year of desegregation there was never the segregation and problems in Boston

were never put in a proper context. It was always the sensational that came out in it skewed I think the reaction in where the violence was taking place in that. And I think this is the danger any time of a news medium that is trying to present the news in unless it puts the matter in a context and does work a textual analysis of a problem. There's the danger of just the negative getting out that the South Boston situation becomes a model or it becomes the picture of the Sergei sion of Boston which is totally false because it is the exception it is what has happened South Boston for a hundred kids is not in any way what is happening for the 75000 kids in Boston who want to peacefully Sergei should you get enough good press on your own so that the people say well there is a community relations service official that's the man I want to say or that's the man I can deal with.

Do enough people know about you know. And also with us we don't we don't seek it out but. What we have done in the past and continue to do is to try to impress upon the media their real responsibility in these type of situations and how they how they capture a new story in how they play it and with attention it gives to it is very significant in how that problem is going to be resolved. So there there are very important factor. You see you sit down with editors and publishers you know and so on on a regular basis unfortunately we try to do it as soft as we can but with the limited staff we just but we used to do this in the beginning of our agency back in the 60s where this problem was much more important I think insofar as the the press is role and some of the excesses of reporting were more noticeable back and then we used to organize media conferences and skum unities were having problems and in order to try to get the media to talk about this problem before him.

And I think in Boston the fact that the Boston media council that was alerted before in. In 1974 helped prevent some of these problems from taking place. Do you think it did cause a lot of people disillusioned with their experiences. The pressure never get together to pretend that a story is unlike what it is. For example the press always has problems that if they deliberately use the vernacular of the street cool it might might actually make things worse because people think that things are better or they don't report everything or if they report things that are only the more dramatic or the more perhaps terroristic aspects of the situation. But there were there was some there is a group that feels the pressure to never get together except to consult with one another on an experience basis never drop any guidelines they would follow that that might violate professional ethics and attorney do you think there's a rationalization that they're making

for that experience or is there something there. I don't know I would hate to venture an asteroid there because I'm quite sure if they made a recommendation to advance research on it more than I've thought of it. So I don't have a particular asset for that morning. Well the only one of the most I'd be concerned about is that you separate the responsibility of the press from that of muzzling the press and I think so oftentimes persons try to put the two together. There is a responsibility of the press and I think the press has to look at itself the media. After a serious situation like that nothing Muslim hell it's rumored that in Washington. I think it's just responsible professionalism and whatever profession it is in the weather was whatever there were some irresponsible professionalism. You know nothing Muslim case to write that's what I thought I think in the number of people have seen that you know and I think the understood that so thus their coming together afterwards to review that and say now if we have a situation like this how should we how

should we treat it. I think that's professionalism that's not Muslim in the say that we will not do that because it leads to these types of consequences. So then we get back to your earlier point that there should be more conferences then you would say it is disappointing that you don't have more contact with the the press again to stick on that is that because they're so busy or is it is it because are they getting a little bored with the story or routine have ever they settle back into kind of a lethargy. Well I don't know so I don't think it's necessary lethargy is what their evaluation of what is news newsworthy and it goes to different goes to accord with what is the important thing in their judgment and what the readership and in the audience the general public needs to know but also works in a good sense and one way that taken off the front pages helps too. Health has helped education the progress of education in Boston over the past years but that

still doesn't answer your question as to how it should be deal with this continued day. Because now South Boston comes up how are they going to treat South Boston if they do not know for example what is happening throughout the city in desegregation. So if they put a store in South Boston you can't just say you know these are geisha isn't working. Someone may say that if someone says that should they treat that as reality you know should they put it in. Should they repeat everything a leader comes in and the danger in the past has been a leader comes out and says these are gay shit isn't working. And that's you know there's no context to put it in. There's almost there's an almost like the Pink Panthers hero Inspectah quazi who keep going to the blackboard saying fact or the effect fact and then comes up with the wrong conclusion. Virtually every time if you in the minute we have left it with either you gentlemen care to comment on what you would like to do if you had 10 more men in the service right here in the region that you're working in right now in Boston. Well first of all we could we could tack our backlog of cases. Second of all we could

put more substantive type work on some of the most more important ones for example Boston we still need to do some more work on specific areas in the desegregation problems on citizen participation South boss of the center. More people on the Indian problems down in Maine and up in Maine and in Mashpee in Vermont the ebon Aqil Indians down to Connecticut then. And we have not really provide the services we need to the Hispanic community which is so growing. It's what it's the fastest growing minority in the country and Connecticut and Massachusetts have great numbers we just have been able to in the prisons we haven't dealt adequately with and also with the problems faced by the illegal alien question. But if we've done nothing else maybe we have alerted a great many people to the fact that you're anxious you're willing and you're ready to start on these problems too. And I certainly am very grateful to you to you both Mr. Lawrence Turner the mediator and Mr. Martin Walsh the regional director of the community relations service thank you gentlemen for a

very insightful series of comments. This is Bernard driven saying good night. It's like. WGBH radio in cooperation with the Institute for democratic allocations of the School of Communications at Boston University has presented the First Amendment and a free people and examination of civil liberties and the media. In the 1970s this program was produced in the studios of WGBH Boston.