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The First Amendment and a free people. A weekly examination of civil liberties and the media in the United States and around the world. The program has produced cooperatively by WGBH Boston and the Institute for democratic communication at Boston University the host of the program is the institute's director Dr. Bernard Rubin. This edition of The First Amendment on a free people is being broadcast from a recording done in broadcasting studios in Bombay India. And I'm absolutely delighted to have as my guest Mr. our own Shroff the station director of the Television Center in Bombay. Mr. Ashcroft has been exceedingly active in a managerial role in the satellite instructional television department which is an experiment called Cite it which was inaugurated in August of 1975 and for two years efforts were made in six Indian states to reach twenty four hundred villages and when one thinks of that that experiment
to communicate to bring education instruction and detainment to unify the country. Mr. Ruff would it be fair to say that it is perhaps the most. Fantastic single communication experiment in the history of the world. Well I would say so. But this was for the first time probably that direct reception from a satellite on a TV set has been tried out. I think there was a small experiment in America in the Rocky Mountains area but I think the experiment in India was on a much larger scale and possibly much why did area and of course the telecast in four languages covered in six states and in addition we had one small to distil transmitters also during that period in the cave and we dropped again to experiment in that little generally progressive and to find out the effect off TV and how it can help. Improve the
progress that through the TV media now for many of the people that you were trying to reach. There was literally no other means of ordinary communication. Yes you see we had the art of the means of communications in this and that we have the mash the folk music parties at the Biden parties we go to the villages in the days generally carry messages that might be some people in the villages who go to the city for water they will drink some messages and that at certain traveling groups of drummers and that folk forms. In fact these are sort of. Very small communication agencies which has existed for so many years and of course develop communication and some of the villages will also be used by the radio to bring before the TV was introduced. But by and large these villages were selected more
or less remote villages quite away from the cities. About 30 to 40 kilometers. And what we found was that the radio was there. Even during one year of exposure of TV there and more people will watch TV than listen to the radio it was in existence for several years so its very clear that the audio visual medium with a great impact on these villagers and these were at home villages being far off from the Ottoman centers there were people who were not seen in the cinema. In fact there are children who are not in a train. So in some of our education programs we used to telecast telecast programs about how to train grants and we were able to impart a lot of information to them. There may not be able to say I understand the theory how the steam engine works but they have very able to understand that after all this is a train which moves with the help of coal some energy. They would realize you know how the
system works but they did get this kind of information. And we had divided into two segments the programs where in the morning for about 25 minutes each in four languages the schoolchildren. That was five days a week that is Monday to Friday. And these programs were viewed by the children in the schools and the teachers were supplied with certain notes so that they can inform the students about the subject of eating and I can I interrupt you there. Teachers were given notes now one of the problems in other countries. Yes has been with the teachers because in rural areas the teachers are so poorly trained. Yes that often the materials that comes on television has been a social embarrassment cultural problem for the teachers. How did you handle that. You see what we had decided was that out of those five programs two programs were science programs and in this case the science runs but also not.
Syllabus oriented It had nothing to do with the curriculum. There were general science programs based on the scientific Philomena the children Obs of in the villages. That's why when we send out the material the programs where planned keeping in view the village conditions. So there was nothing Friday night or early in about it. And when we carried out certain experiments science experiments in the laboratory to be demonstrated to the villagers. They also tried to use material which would normally be available in a bill each. We didn't go on for friend sea level to tree equipment because the science is one of the important things in the village at the village level where they did not have any facilities. Some of some of these villages. When you introduce television India is one of the most advanced countries in the world has one of the largest middle classes in industrial empire that is becoming bigger and bigger all the time. But it also has some of the most. Likely educated people on Earth
some of these children in remote villages would be hard to reach with a poster because they would would not have the comprehension to understand a poster. Well the use of a question mark or things of that nature. To what degree did you find from your work on site great television experiment that certain failures would have to be overcome in future now as you go ahead to 1980 when nine thousand nine hundred one went to another satellite will be put up and the experiment will continue. Well the research we do we get it out gave us some inkling you know about the organisation and the presentation of programs are the formats with which are due to lace. And in case of the education programs we found that their comprehension did go up. Secondly it created in them a desire to learn and read more. So that motivation was created. But by and
large we found that when they were we took up a very intricate subject for example an atom that would go above the heads of the children. So it does require a lot of thought before said science programs are planned in the sense that they have to be very very simple and they have to be thought in terms of the availability in the villages and with illustrations which can go straight into their heads. What about follow up now many people in this area say that you must have people on the ground following up the television by itself will not produce very much you have to have the teams actually go in and organize on a steady basis. Its really interesting question because that is what we found our dating site. That alone cannot bring about change and in the work case we also want to bring order to bring about social change and this kind of genius cannot be averted brought about in a very short video. And secondly cannot be brought about unless you have an interesting chat at the village
level. Same thing is. Correct in the subset agriculture. You tell them that you follow certain practices you tell them that you certain kind of fertilize this same kind of seeds but unless the seeds out available in the villages it will not be possible for them to implement these additions. The same is the case with new techniques of production. Now it's solid you can show it to them on the TV. But just showing one doesn't mean much. Here we found that if you show such programs twice or thrice then one of the villagers tries to follow that and then the other people see that. Then of course the implementation is much more. So it's communication is not just telecasting of a program. It also means local support local infrastructure. Now that's a very costly venture that may be as costly as the physical satellite.
I don't think so in the sense that you see we have it. Create a system in the villages also that we have the village level worker who is a lot at about eight to 10 villages and looks after this religious and in fact we found that you used to tell in the program that what little information you conduct available luckily and he did a very salute to the effect the villagers demanded there that with a little of a short visit our religious. So in fact he tightened up the administration to a certain extent because unless you read then those facilities if you say that you ask got a loan and buy something implements but unless you get a loan at the village level how are you going to do it. So in that case you have to give them some agency through which they can opt in these facilities. If you doubt that just telling them to do something is not going to help them and we must advise them and give them suggestions which are possible in implementation. If they are not implemented. Possibly it is not the fault of the TV but there is some sort of a horror gap in the communication because there
are facilities available. But just informing them doesn't mean very much. Mr. Iraq the villages in these five states were actually talking about hundreds of millions of people and talk about the villages of India we're talking about 80 percent of the total population of India. Does that sometimes stagger your imagination. That's absolutely true it is a very vast problem. And that is one reason why television is something it is going to be much more useful. I'll tell you about two experiments done during this age itself. One was this teacher training. And during you know we had a vacation in summer and then one in the winter we realized this recreation videos were training teachers. So we had a seven day 10 day course of multimedia training for the teachers which included films and we utilized the services of the radio also and the TV programs. And what we did was
we selected one village in each that is a cluster of about 20 30 villages and 10 teachers from the nearby villages will come and stay in that village for 10 days and view these programmes. We were supported by the Ministry of Education who gave them a lot of printed material slates etc.. So with this vivid able to train about twenty five thousand teachers in 10 days and during the second vacation we were able to train another 25000. So we were able to train trip 2000 teachers. I think that itself is a great achievement and this is a real expedition. The advantage of the TV value can simultaneously 50000 people. Well India is often referred to by people who know what is going on as one of the great democracies of the world. And this experiment even if you achieved a minimal success will certainly
further the whole concept by brainy people who are outside the spectrum of politics outside the spectrum of formal education into the lifeblood of India. Again it's so gigantic A concept you don't know what will happen when it's beginning to be successful. Yes but I think very great democratising media. And that's what we found out and we had such an advantage in this and that we were able to utilize this half inch board up at machines which we could take it to the villages that accord them in a very an inhibiting atmosphere of the studio in their own homes. But they can express themselves this sort of quarterback you know gives you that portability mobility and you can go and record the programmes. So what I mean the idea here was to try to involve them into our programming making them express articulate that. Requirements which can then further go to the government of the department concerned or to the authorities can you
have certain options on the satellite itself. Options as to the number of video and audio channels that you will have on the new satellite. Now I know that you can broadcast simultaneously in at least four languages with a satellite What is the plan for the new satellite in terms of options between audio and visual part of the experiment in sight. It was about this. Who are do you want video. What we did was in peace upon deprivation cannot reach the two states which is covered under site. One speaks not of the local What we did was retelling certain programs. The viewer in the under region would switch on the air and get the program in the same program in the Connecticut region they could switch on be a little bit to audio switches in the TV set provided and that they could listen in the Connecticut region. But we found that there are certain difficulties because then there is no lip sync. So
you have to limit your programs where the lip sync question does not erase it. If you have a travelogue for example it is completely visual and when the man does not come in it doesn't matter but if you have a teacher trying to teach and if there is no lip sync and the reason we give up close ups of the lip sync that it immediately bound to know of our narrative is better for you. Background narrative is correct but that is only we can do certain types of programs. But if we did the play for example it may not be possible. But I gave it to my theological platers are like that in all the story so they would enjoy the acting and the visual part of it. So though it may be possible now to have six Oreos in one video. I don't think that is the thing which will serve our purpose. I'd like to ask you a final question before we move on to another subject and that is you're introducing many villagers to India. Not just to to education but to the next to lock into the next region and to India. Has India come as a surprise and a shock to many
villagers. Not surprising the shock but with great amazement you know because I lived what happened was the person in the village fought him just about and if I kilometers or kilometers around his village would be his whole country. Then they were delighted that is something which is much beyond us and that is also our country you know and that we had half a number segment called the National segment which was relayed from Delhi and which was given over to all the stations all the centers in Hindi so that these are national language and this segment did a lot you see in bringing about greater awareness of what is happening in other parts of the country and what a big mass country this is a big vast and magnificent country it is. Mr. Shroff I'd like to turn now to ask you your views on the current so-called North-South debate the debate going on between developing countries all countries are developing some are more technological than others are between sometimes what is loosely called first and
third world industrial states and the emerging states. What do you make of the argument that the first world is trying to overwhelm. Do you think this is described by some people a deliberate mechanism. I don't think it is deliberate but possibly this is the historical background. Hi everybody not really it is for example that if you want to send certain messages from India it was not possible directly because there are no facilities yet one was directly linked with land. How the thing would come via land. So because of this historic arraignments historic hangover one has a feeling that it's deliberate but I personally don't think it is deliberate. But the situation was such that we had these foreign agencies were providing news to us for so many years and they had all that interest the background the dog in addition to cover the worldwide events. Now this is something which cost money and which
takes time to develop. So there is no question that we should have our own agencies do interest news and collect news which are of interest to us and of our region saw something happening in a neighborhood. But because of these historical events what happens is you get much better news coverage from the. Say Europe but America then the Southeast Asian countries is often referred to Kent Cooper who is one of the heads of one of our great new services in the 1980s. Did a speech which is sometimes coded into Sounds like a Third World speech of today that the United States objects to. To being treated as a fourth rate Party that it's news is important to him that doesn't want everything coming out of London. We're not a primitive people we have something to say. And that was about the United States complaining about the dominance of Reuters at the time. Do you think that some of this argument will be answered simply by the fact that countries like India will have more facilities
the facilities will provide more news transmission and India will be more heard from. That is true but at the same time you do as well. News is concerned about the country itself is so large and there is such an amount of material that what we want on the outside is very little which is much relevance to the Indian conditions. The relevance of the news I think is of a very great importance. But who could tell the story of India in all of its myriad facets better than people from India. That's true so it is a part of the problem the fact that there aren't enough reporters trained in what is called developmental journalism from third world countries that is part of the reason I think the whole concept of communication as it is in the stew today is very very new to these countries possibly India is in the forefront as why the Southeast Asian vendors are concerned. But even here about 20 years back there was no school of denialism.
There were no communication college courses or whether it was that what I think of the place now that it's changed radically has it not. Yeah it was a situation the situation is much better. For example television training center in Borno which was not there earlier say about 10 years back. Only in case of radio we had a sort of interest training run by Allah in that area. Now there are a number of colleges in fact in Miami that are two institutions which teach TV. Then of course there are at least four to six. Call quality switching on courses in journalism. And then you will see the course he said denialism in that coming up all over the country. In fact these are the people who who freed of a TV and video now. So the situation has changed but I don't think the situation in the other Southeast Asian countries is as happy as we have here in India. Well India has a mass press in the urban areas and with the satellite work going into the most advanced kind of technological
work it appears to me that it is comparatively easy to talk to experts and professionals from India about this subject because you are advancing so fast. You will in effect take the place of the United States in terms of news movement. If you continue to dig our stories about Southeast Asia as you are now. Yeah I think so the time should come when India should take the lead particularly in coordinating and dissemination of the news in the Southeast Asian countries and possibly those greater relevance here and possibly what's happening here is of much more greater relevance to those people also. Well from my point of view of the fact that India is a democracy and its reporters are committed in the main to democracy makes this development very heartening because not all third world countries are democratic so matter of fact some of them are quite the opposite.
That's true but the other advantage also is that industry also we have advanced for example take human space technology. I think we are much more progressed as compared to the other countries who have been continuously importing equipment. But here the idea in having this side experiment is not only to develop software but also to develop the hardware here in India itself. After 1985 you'll actually be manufacturing your equipment. Yeah we have because that during this last five years me again quite a good deal of knowledge and we here experimented with some sort of an equipment which could be manufactured here cheaply and that have certain equipment for example like the time base corrector which if you buy from America will be much more costly for the simple reason that you required it to be. Now since we don't use color we don't need that kind of sophisticated equipment we can make it much cheaper here. Similarly you have these sort of other systems 625 in a 25. And now we don't require that because we have one standard system. So if we manufacture we had I think it'll be much more cheaper and
that's how we can train about a younger generation in electronics and that is the fuel which is going to develop during next few years. Do you think that tell me television will ever reach the point of cost of an individual set so that it will become a possible for the masses of India to buy television sets. I think so even at the moment the cost of deliberation is not so prohibitive. But what I will each put any individual it may be difficult at this stage but when I relate to spend about 3000 rupees is not very much and in fact we have a lot of community sets where the villagers shell out about 33 percent and the rest is subsidized by the state party cooperative Deady. But because remanufacture them here it is possible that some of the cost will come down. And also we are trying to work out but with low cost destroy equipment. Similarly say for example they are voting with bodies we do also.
These are much cheaper than those 20 equipment and we also have started manufacturing equipment like transmitters are manufactured in the country completely manufactured in the country and other video equipment. Slowly we will be embarking on. So it will be possible in days to come to bring the television series at much cheaper rates. Let us one day put a satellite on one of India's boosters. That should be in the future. Well I. I'm impressed with the fact that you see this as an argument which will be eventually lowered in key but the sustaining voice now has been very shrill has it not. These different conferences there are people who say the Third World is one block. No I think because of the space technology I think the whole world is one. And as you know we were thrilled during sate
to see that some of our programs were seen even in London even though this was an experimental satellite which was directed towards India. There were people in London there were people in Spain who could see and see and send us comments. Give me a little background to that how could they see that. Because videotapes you mean. No on their TV said with that you can measure Internet in Spain and his men in Britain yes. In fact they took photographs of the reception and the publisher some article in the magazines also is this because of some freak in the atmosphere or what. I didn't think that the area was so huge because it wasn't partly African nobbut there are certain parts of India where the deception was very good but other places it was possible to receive it. Now the next the next satellite will be on an Indian orbit Yeah so that the whole country country will be Oh indeed other countries
probably Pakistan Afghanistan. There could easily Salon Salon three Lanka and so on. Thailand they will be able to receive. So its effect on the international community in Southeast Asia may be rather amazing. Is there any hope of doing cooperative work with these other countries. That I think depends upon the political climate because I had the woman do and I personally feel that we have developed a lot of technology which could be used by other countries of the Southeast Asia region but that you know all of the different kind of problems because every country has their ways if that is called liberation. I think the whole of the Southeast Asia will gain much more because of a lot of efforts in developing I don't think well I think we could law look forward to the political implications of an Indian village in a small village looking at a program showing him a Thai village in a small village and both of them seeing that their lives are comparatively similar and that there is the human experience
behind all all events. Mr. Aron Shrove I'm delighted to have you and let me remind our listeners that you are the station director of the television center in Bombay India for this edition from studios in Bombay. Bernard Reuben. The First Amendment and a free people a weekly examination of civil liberties and the media in the United States and around the world. The engineer for this broadcast was Margo Garrison and the program is produced by Greg Fitzgerald. This broadcast has produced cooperatively applied are you GDH Boston and the Institute for democratic communication. I have tossed in universities which are solely responsible for its content. This is the station program exchange.
Series
The First Amendment
Episode
Educational Television in India
Producing Organization
WGBH Educational Foundation
Contributing Organization
WGBH (Boston, Massachusetts)
AAPB ID
cpb-aacip/15-08hdrfnt
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Description
Series Description
"The First Amendment is a weekly talk show hosted by Dr. Bernard Rubin, the director of the Institute for Democratic Communication at Boston University. Each episode features a conversation that examines civil liberties in the media in the 1970s. "
Description
Aron Schroff
Created Date
1979-08-09
Genres
Talk Show
Topics
Social Issues
Media type
Sound
Duration
00:28:28
Embed Code
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Credits
Producing Organization: WGBH Educational Foundation
Production Unit: Radio
AAPB Contributor Holdings
WGBH
Identifier: 80-0165-01-10-001 (WGBH Item ID)
Format: 1/4 inch audio tape
Generation: Master
Duration: 00:27:57
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Citations
Chicago: “The First Amendment; Educational Television in India,” 1979-08-09, WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC, accessed March 28, 2024, http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-08hdrfnt.
MLA: “The First Amendment; Educational Television in India.” 1979-08-09. WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Web. March 28, 2024. <http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-08hdrfnt>.
APA: The First Amendment; Educational Television in India. Boston, MA: WGBH, American Archive of Public Broadcasting (GBH and the Library of Congress), Boston, MA and Washington, DC. Retrieved from http://americanarchive.org/catalog/cpb-aacip-15-08hdrfnt