WGBH Journal; Housing For Elderly

Where do elderly people find housing when their sources of income cease to exist? How do older people feel about the living situations which are available to them? These questions are real ones for an increasingly large segment of our population. Some thoughts from residents of an elderly housing project in Brighton is the first feature on today's show. Good afternoon and welcome. This is GBH Journal and I'm Marsha Hertz. We will also hear about some alternative living situations for older people in Boston. Then Louis Lyons will comment on the news. But to open, we have the first in a series of community Sound Portraits produced by David Freudberg. Today's piece focuses on residents of the John Carroll apartments in Brighton, Mass., A low income housing project for the elderly. Time was when the children grew up around old people. When seniors shared in the joys and the duties of family life. To everyone they were a reminder of the natural cycle. Now amidst all

the affluence, we've isolated the elderly, left them to the frailties of aging unoccupied and lonely. [Music (John Prine): We had an apartment in the city. Me and Loretta like living there. Well, it's been years since the kids have gone. A life of their own. Left us alone. You know that old trees just grow stronger and old rivers grow wilder everyday day. Old Oh, People just grow lonesome waiting for someone to say to say.

Hello in there, hello.] The problems for someone of retirement age are aggravated often by poverty. The city of Boston provides 3200 needy senior citizens with space in residential projects at a rental of one fourth their income. But the demand for such housing is three times greater than what's available. The projects offer a place to meet peers and live among those who care. We recently visited the John Carroll apartments in Brighton. "You can keep yourself occupied, you can always find something to do. With some of them, they just sit down and they don't feel like doing a thing." "I tell you at times, it is very much depressing, but I'm the type, I keep myself occupied. I belong places and I go until I fall. And then I get up and I keep on going." "There's no need of anyone being depressed or anything like that. Because there's enough people sitting out, especially in the summertime. If anyone -- everyone is welcome. Wherever there's

three, four people sitting. You bring your own chair, you sit, and you can hold a conversation with everyone else, so I don't think there is any need of anyone staying in. Because they feel alone. They're never alone. Once you live in a project this small complex here -- we have witnessed a few times people that were sick and we managed to get in to them where they lived alone. So I don't think there is any fear of anyone being scared, or even lonesome. There's no need of it they could come out. Everybody will be glad to talk to them. You know anything that we can do for." "And they can always go find some kind of amusement and at dinner clubs and many places too, and if you seek entertainment, seek company, you can always find it. A short walk, any place. You get out, you see people. You talk to people. And that's very important when you get older." "We have a lot of handicaps and I have a hard time getting on a bus and getting off a bus. And I think the new -- or, I don't know how new they are, the

buses that elevates, has some kind of a lift. That would be handy I think. There's a lot of people around here that are taking the bus going to Cambridge and it wouldn't be a bad idea at all ought to have one of them around here, to help the elderly that are trying to get on buses and can't get on, they have a hard time." I think today's children think that they'll never get old, they'll never get to be our age. They want to live for today, and they have no consideration for the elderly. All right I'm lucky. I have nine lovely grandchildren. They're very considerate and very nice people. But I've seen many others that are so inconsiderate to the elderly. They have no regard for them. Many times in the street car, occupy two seats, two seats. But they won't think of making room for the person standing next to them to sit down, and I think that's very inconsiderate of them." ...socialized medicine, for everyone. Not only for the seniors but would make it much easier. (additional voice in background "I agree". My doctor bills are tremendous

and I only have Medicare." "What are the drawbacks of the current system?" "The medica--, like I have medics also and they keep going up. And up, and up!" "Before I became a senior citizen, I was on Blue Cross/Blue Shield as an individual, and I thought I was going to be saving money the minute I get 65. I paid the first payment for three months $23, and in about three months later it tripled, and then it went down a little and now it's tripled again." [Music (John Prine): You know that old trees just grow stronger. And old rivers grow wilder every day. Just grow lonesome, waiting for someone to say "Hello in there, hello". (music) "...so if you're walking down the street sometime..."

A few months ago reporters Henrietta Davis and Joan Morgan produced a show which examined the issue of elderly housing in Boston. In it they focused on the situations of several elderly people attempting to make homes for themselves in the city. As well as examining some of the problems faced by older people in setting up their own homes.

Henrietta and Joan looked at some living situations which provide alternatives to the traditional nursing home environment. We have excerpted a segment of the elderly housing show focusing on alternative living situations. One such alternative is 116 Norfolk Street, a congregate living facility located in Cambridge, where about 40 people have individual apartments and share kitchen and bathing facilities. Norfolk Street also has supportive services for those who would not be able to live outside of nursing homes without them. One resident of Norfolk Street is Elaine Armstrong, who here expresses some views of her new home. "I wasn't satisfied until I came down here and looked at this myself. Because I thought I might be stepping into something else. You know, I just didn't know, and I was so pleased and happy with it. I was under the assumption that nobody had their own little toilet you know and wash basin. I thought that everything was like that old boarding house style where you stood in line with the towel over your arm and everything, and I couldn't picture that, because I

in the nursing home and the hospital and when I saw the facility I was very happy. It was just -- I mean look at last winter, almost 4 years years you've been like a prisoner. I call it a prisoner and at a chronic hospital. I wasn't allowed to do anything or function on my own. Now to other people they might possibly be dissatisfied I don't know. We share the kitchen stove and the two refrigerators and that is where of course the most conflict arises. But some people in order to overcome that have bought their own little hot plates which are allowed to have and their own little refrigerators such as I brought there Anyone has the choice of if they want their complete privacy to have these little facilities in your room, to stay out of the kitchen area or close your door and live all by yourself that is not my way. From any moment I am on this floor my door is wide open, and it's wide open until about 11 o'clock at night simply because I like people and if anybody wants to talk to me about

something, I'm only too glad. You know I wouldn't leave here for all the money in the world." Tom Sullivan, who also lives in Norfolk Street. "Well, I think it's been wonderful for me especially. For I came in here dead broke and had nothing and I don't own anything here. Everything has been donated to me. and people really are so wonderful when you really are down and don't have anything. I think that people they really do come across and help you. I know they helped me tremendously." What do you like about living here? "I think we care about each other in here more than other places do. I think like to be able to sleep or something and if you know they don't show up they come right up to find out if you're all right and see that -- you know -- and of course I usually -- I love the Late Late Show and I like to TV. And of course, in the morning, I never get up and of course I'm sleeping sometimes to noontime. Thank God I'm in good health and I feel wonderful and I wouldn't leave here for anything."

After years of living in a nursing home, how would it feel to try living independently? Many people now in nursing homes, maybe as many as 10 percent, don't know that they're capable of living independently and don't know how they would manage it. The Echo Project in Cambridge talks to nursing home residents about independent living and then supports them if they choose to move out. Ruth Manning is one of four women who moved out of a nursing home seven months ago to live cooperatively in an apartment. How does she like her new status? "I love it. But I'm free again. Have more of your freedom. Get up when you feel like it. Do what you please. That's what I say about it." I really like it. (Moderator Question) "And so do you have more money now than you did..." Oh, yes. been very careful. You have to be pinching. (Moderator) "Now you have to buy things like... food and..." "Oh I don't mind that at all, Nuh-uh. It is a pleasure to do things like that go on your own.

We all go shopping together. We scatter around the store and get what we want and then who ever gets done first we wait for them and come back, you know we all come back together. We do our own cooking at separate times and then we go up the Central Square to do our shop and we go to the bank and get our written money you know. So and kind of take it right downstairs to them so we won't want to get kicked out yet we didn't pay our rent didn't pay our rent. [laughs]. (not very audable) it went up to Chester Manor. I always said to go at the some of them "why don't you go out?" I said "you don't need attention get out" and she looked at me she said 'Oh, I can't do things for myself.' I says 'You want someone to wait on ya?' she says, 'Oh' And I says 'Oh, you're spoiled'. [laughs] That was Ruth Manning. What about people who just want to stay put but their rent is out of reach of the dwindling incomes. Help can come from Section 8, A federal housing subsidy program which keeps rent at only 25 percent of income.

But are there enough subsidies to go around? And how do people find out about the program? Mrs. M. comments "I read about it in the current Cambridge Chronicle and it was advertised and said that within a short time the federal money would be granted and those that were 65 or over were finding it difficult to meet all expenses should apply, there would be help for them. help for them. And I felt that it was worth trying. How much of a saving is it going to be for you? I would say a good 40 to 50 a month which will help me you know with getting a few more clothes or things that I really needed that I had to go without. You know I had to make a great sacrifice. Well with the pension that my husband gets and the Social Security of his and mine put together, I would not be able to or swing a regular apartment. I never had the opportunity

to own my home to begin with. But, we have a nice apartment I'm very happy with it and now I find that I can stay there and I don't have the worry of having to go out elsewhere for a place. You know at first I didn't really want to - to do this. I really didn't and then the more I read about it the more I thought well I think that I'm in the category that I'm eligible for it. You know I don't want anything I don't want to be grabbing things when someone else needs it more than I. But if there is money funded there to help you when you're older I think you should take advantage of it. (Narrator:) Public housing, surely that's the answer for a lot of people who can spend no more than 25 percent of their income on housing and want to live with other older people. A great number of new facilities have been built in the last 10 years, but are there enough? Mrs. C. comments from her own experience. "It's hard for people to get a place. I mean when some when you have to

wait five years, three years, nine years for a place, there isn't enough places like your private little home. I find it so. That's something you don't hear all the time. Games and they have church services Fridays and Saturday nights. So I think's what they can't get out it's nice to have all that right at your hand. Your fingertips I should say. (moderator) "How is your health?" "Well, not bad for a little old lady. I have arthritis in both knees. That's the only thing that bothers me and I have to use a cane on the street. I can't go out without a cane. I had to get one where was no stairs by doctor's orders, but and that's no stairs here it's all ramp. So it's good for me. I pay about three hundred for this with heat and everythi. I think no matter where you went for three four one bedroom apartment to 250 or 300, they say that's what it is but I really think that putting up these apartments like this for the elderly has done a

lot for us, really has. You feel secure in them and I know I'm very I feel very secure here, very secure. (Narrator:) Would you mind if I asked you how much you pay per month? Sixty-eight. And that includes utilities? Everything. I just pay for my phone. (Narrator:)That is a steal. (Mrs. C:) I hear we're getting a raise. I hear there's going to be a raise but who cares, I mean after all this is where I will finish my days. [musical interlude] And now commentator Louis Lyons takes a look at the news. (Louis Lyons:) In 1934, national political attention focused on California

where Upton Sinclair was running for governor on a plan for curing the Depression that he called "EPIC, End Poverty in California". His simplistic plan would have turned the capitalistic system inside out. Production for use only he prescribed. EPIC was a scare word to government and business until after the California election. Again a scare word in California as a panacea for the economy rouses fanatical support there and causes anxiety in governments, local state and national. Proposition 13 that's the issue in California is referendum tomorrow. It's the creation of a crusader against taxes named Howard Jarvis. Proposition 13 would amend the state constitution to limit real estate taxes to 1 percent of their 1976 assessment. This would cut tax revenues by more than half. And of course forced cutting public services in two as Governor Brown warns the voters. The popularity of the campaign for

Proposition 13 scared the legislature into a less drastic measure to cut homeowners taxes nearly a third. And that's on the ballot as Proposition 8, an alternative to Jarvis' Proposition 13. But Proposition 8 has reportedly made little headway in abating the fervor for the bigger tax slash. "Epic" frightened business as a radical anti-capitalist movement. Proposition 13 has drawn conservative support as anti-government. Reporters who flock to California are describing it as a symbol of national revolt against the rising cost of government. Adam Clymer in the New York Times finds that 23 state legislatures have called for a constitutional amendment to ban federal deficits. Tennessee voted in March to limit state spending. In Michigan and Colorado, tax control plans are expected to be on the November ballot. And campaigns for this are underway in Utah, Idaho and Oregon. Taxpayers associations in other states are pushing various

plans to put a ceiling on taxes and require a balanced budget. Clymer Wright said it's not doctrine but emotion that is behind the anti-tax movement in its most violent manifestation in California. There are some local taxes that are five times what they were 10 years ago. One may wonder how much of this emotion is general anti-inflation emotion that accepts any action against cost of any kind. When the action takes aim at taxes it strikes not only at inflation and government costs but also at the government that fails to deal with inflation. Taxes are not responsible for 99 cent lettuce, or for sky high beef prices, the result of the strike of cattlemen. But government could bring down meat prices somewhat by increasing the quota for beef imports as the New York Times notes today. And by defeating such propositions as Senator Church's to add a subsidy to his beet sugar-grower constituency that would add three cents a pound to the sugar price.

Another thing affecting the tax payers emotions must be the endless recital of corruption in government from City Hall to Washington and nowhere more pervasive than in Massachusetts where legislative leadership seems insensitive to the governor's plan to apply a state surplus to relief of local property taxes. The budget committee chairman in the California legislature says putting rigid limits on expenditure would neglect changing standards of society. A few years ago he says no one thought the handicapped had rights. Rigid limits would seal off those people whose rights have not yet been recognized. But support of flexibility to meet such needs is jeopardized by the bureaucratic incompetence and irresponsibility revealed in the child abuse cases in Massachusetts. If California's referendum tomorrow has a jolting effect there it will rain alarm in some other places. As our minds try to adjust to the riddle's of Africa as a new focus of American

foreign policy, we got a surprise bump from Canada. Canada orders American fishing boats out of Canadian waters, and in 24 hours. Washington retorts with an order to all Canadian fishing to quit American waters. This makes us realize that that most ancient cause of dispute between the United States and Canada, the fisheries, that our history books taught us was settled in classic arbitration in the last century, is revived in the overlap of the two hundred mile zones that each claims. Each asserted unilateral action under pressures from their domestic fishing industries frustrated with a long failure of international agreement on territorial zones. Now with the elections impending in Canada it's reportedly again pressure of Canadian fishing interests that brings the expulsion order from Ottawa. Negotiating teams of both countries have been working on the issue and getting nowhere. Their talks collapsed in failure. When Iceland and England had their fishing war it had its

farcical aspect in our long distance view. Canada will not be turning out its navy. The mythical boundaries of the sea can hardly be defined by a Border Patrol though on both sides coast guards are monitoring their eviction orders. To us landlubbers, the notion that two neighbor governments can't sustain a negotiation over adjacent ocean is even less understandable than the native struggle over a province of Zaire should unsettle the SALT talks and divide the Washington administration. As to its relations with Russia, Black members of the Carter administration from Admiral-- Ambassador Young down are reported unhappy over the Carter policy in Africa stimulated by the tough anti-Soviet line of Brzezinski. They note that in flying Moroccan troops to Zaire we join France, Belgium, Britain, the former imperialist exploiters of Africa, in support of the Mobutu government and that the bone of contention is the area of the rich copper industry, the

former prize of a European cartel. The American Bar Association president has praise for two rulings that the Supreme Court made last week about lawyers. In one, the court affirmed the right of a state to suspend a lawyer for ambulance chasing, as Ohio did with two lawyers who solicited victims of an auto accident to sue. But the court reversed discipline taken by the South Carolina Bar Association against a civil liberties union lawyer who offered free service for a malpractice suit to a woman who had been sterilized as a condition for Medicaid. President Spahn of the American Bar Association called such free public interest practice a justified exception from the prohibition against solicitation. The Massachusetts legislature passed the ethics bill in the form supported by common cause. Sent it to the governor. It called for financial disclosure such as 40 states require

with a commission to investigate cases. A tussle over abortion held up state budget, an anti-abortion move in the house succeeded in attaching a rider to the Medicaid section of the budget. The Senate rejected this as a separate issue and passed the budget bill without it. The author of the rider in the House threatens to force it on the conference. It's known that the governor would veto an anti-abortion restriction, as he has before, but to have to veto the budget would be an embarrassment with which the abortion fighters seek to confront him. [musical interlude] And that's GBH Journal for Monday June 5th. This show is produced by Marcia Hertz. Today's engineer Margo Garrison. The Journal will be back tomorrow at 4:30. Have a good day.

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