Woman; 415; Working Class Women

See the woman by day Chandra. Good evening and welcome to woman. Our topic tonight is working class women a group one of my guests describes as the most voiceless of the silent majority. With me tonight is Nancy safer. Nancy was formerly head of the mayor's office of ethnic affairs in the Lindsay administration in New York City. Nancy safer is now director of the Center on women and American diversity sponsored by the American Jewish Committee. She has written a pamphlet that has become a classic in the field titled absent from the majority working class women in America.

She is the author of a book nobody speaks for me self-portraits of American working class women. Also joining us is Mary sounds Sony founder and executive director of the Congress of Italian-American organizations. Mary is a social worker. She is a working class woman and has lived in a working class neighborhood in Brooklyn. All of her life. Welcome to both of you. Thank you. Mary do you agree with Nancy's statement about working class women being the voiceless part of this silent majority. I most certainly do. They. Working class woman has never asserted themselves to speak because I think one of the reasons is that they have been conditioned to accept whatever was given to them. And I think this is a very sad sad thing because they have never actually expressed their true feelings about how they feel. And I think in many cases they have been very very unhappy. Do you think the women's movement has a that has had anything to do with this. Always certainly has. As a matter of fact I have met

lots of women today as a result of the women's movement have been have been asserting themselves. And I think they're they're much happier today than they have ever been. May I say one thing in the book you did talk a lot in your introduction about the silent majority. A lot of people question whether the silent majority in fact exists. Well I'm one who feels that it never did exist in fact but it was a fabrication of the Nixon people as as a means of trying to convey the fact that the majority of the people in the country were satisfied with him because they were silent. They didn't voice any disapproval. And of course the election results in 1972 helped that. But my feeling about the silent majority is that it was relatively easy to manufacture because that notion was easier to manufacture because most people in our society don't have a means of speaking out. The people who write magazine articles and write books and appear on television most of the time

and and speak to the public are usually middle class people with college educations and it's almost as though our communications in this country are a matter of middle class folks exchanging ideas or opinions and everybody else kind of watching. Most people don't have a vehicle to speak out so that it was easy to perpetrate the myth of the silent majority. The term marry right now I got to answer you. Nancy I don't think it was just a question of not having a vehicle. I think in many cases it was cultural. Yeah. In many cases I mean for instance the Italian woman was taught never to speak out that the man was a superior being so consequently she had to accept whatever was given to her and be grateful. But Italian men in our society usually don't have opportunities to speak out either. Working class people for the most part don't.

I mean there is you're right it is culture but there's also a lack of vehicles for communicating to the society at large apart from the labor movement which speaks for a lot of people but many people are not represented by it. They've been using the term working class at least five or six times now we use it and that makes some people uncomfortable. Tell me what your definition is. Well it's it's become commonly used now among sociologists. And the definition that is used generally is is made up of three different elements. One is people who have had a high school education or less people who have blue collar or lower level white collar jobs like typist for example or clerks and the third part has to do with income it's difficult to say what it is now but in the early 70s it was an income of between 10 and $15000 for a family of four in an urban area. And that was pretty much decided by the Labor Department. So it's probably a bit higher

now because of inflation but it's a relatively low income for a family of four married just shook her head. Because today according to the poverty levels the income has gone lower. I don't know if you know that but last summer the poverty. Prior to 1975 the pie of poverty level was up to ten thousand five hundred dollars per family of four who left you went down to 8000. Because I know we had problems with getting a neighborhood you'd call children. They had to meet the poverty level and last year's poverty level for a family of four. Was five thousand five hundred dollars to 8000. Well that's we you know it's it's gotten lower. Well the point is I guess it's working because people in the definition of working class is that it is not very much above the poverty level and it seems to be getting closer to getting closer to the poverty level. These are people who are. Are.

Not. Eligible for any of the services that the government provides to people who do fall below that income level. And this became a particular sore point in the 60s when the poverty program was really alive and generating a lot of programs related to education and jobs and training and health and all sorts of things that a lot of working class families just above that level could not provide for themselves. So it seems to be getting even closer now and you know it's. What do you see as the major problems for working class women in in your neighborhood. Well the major problem for working class women is conditioning the husband to give them an opportunity to cooperate with them. I know I haven't had that problem. I mean thank God. And I often say the reason why I didn't have that problem is because my husband married me exactly as I am today. So he accepted me. Then 28 years ago. He's got to accept me today.

But I know that the worst problem is trying to get the husband to cooperate with them because a a working woman has two jobs. One is going out to work and the other one is keeping house and the man doesn't want to know anything about it. She has to come home and cook and clean and take care of the children. And I think that this is their biggest problem is getting the husband to cooperate with them so that they can continue going out to work and providing. Do you know how they solve it. Well some have solved it and some are still struggling. As a matter of fact I know a lot of women that still come home. And have to cook and clean and. They will. I think that eventually they'll speak up and it's is going to be either you accept me you know or the heck with you. And I think that this is what's what's going to happen. And I don't

blame them because it's difficult. A woman works a lot of women work because they want that feeling of independence which is very important to a person. And they have contributed at home I know lots of women that are working because the husband's salary is not substantial enough to provide for the needs. So she goes out to work she contributes to the household. Pea sized bed he insisted she take over the house and cook and clean. And I think this is very difficult and eventually the woman is going to give him an ultimatum you say you help me or we're going to have to split. You better not be around when that happens. Nancy what did you want to know and why did you write the book. Well I had been doing some research about working class women at the Institute of. Work. And published the pamphlet which you mentioned and

I found that it would be much better for everybody if working class women could express in their own words what they felt about their lives their country. What was important to them what their concerns were rather than me. And since I come from a different background speaking for them and what was happening was because there was such a dearth of literature or information about working class women because I had written that pamphlet I was being called upon to speak to various groups about working class women and I wanted to since there was no real vehicle to create at least a book of 10 women who could tell other people what was important to them speak for themselves. And I was interested also in finding out. Since my experiences were limited primarily to New York and some other visits to some other cities. What was happening in very different parts of the country like the South.

One of the women in the book is from Atlanta another from Alabama rural town in Alabama outside of Detroit there are huge contrasts between working class women say in Mary's neighborhood and Atlanta or Iowa or whatever. Well I think the basic concerns are pretty much the same. There are cultural differences but the basic concerns revolve around the family around making enough to support the family. Preserving neighborhoods or whatever in some cases it's not relevant. Like the women need it comes from Alabama lives in a wonderful rural kind of an area where they have a huge piece of land and animals and all sorts of things. And so the neighborhood is clearly not a priority. But the concerns really have to do with making making ends meet more than anything else. I think that was a common factor. And then also struggling to help other people in similar situations. But that's just probably because of the 10 women that I happened to find and

be looking up to be able to interview. I don't think that that's common of all working class people. Mary tell me about your father. Well my father was a most interesting person as I talk about him in the book. He studied to be a priest left the seminary shortly before he was ordained came to the United States and. Lived with. Some relatives and later met my mother were married. However what was so beautiful about my father. Was that his concern for his family and concern for all mankind his concern at home was education. He stressed education above anything else. As a matter of fact he had an expression. He said even if my family was he would say it in Italian This sounds better with the bread and onions he said. I don't care. Just so long as they go to school. Because education was very important. I think that. My father's family were the five of

us. Was the only family in the neighborhood that did in fact go to school. And his concern was to help the underdog and he worked for the labor movement. And besides that he wrote for probably Taddeo which was a very liberal newspaper. And he had. Sort of a little what they call a storefront today but this used to be a one room near the newspaper where he would help the illiterates read and write as a matter of fact he does hundreds of people that Popeye helped. And did in the same neighborhood that I was born in in Red Hook. As a matter of fact when he died people from all over came to visit him. And that's how you got to be the way you were. I got to be the way I am because I followed him from the time I was very young. I don't think my mother was too happy with the idea because she felt. That what

I was doing my brother should have been doing my brother G.L. was very much like myself. My brother Jimmy was entirely different. Know his mom. And my brother and I were more idealistic like my father. And my brother Jimmy was egotist. So I got to see him live for you know we were kind of. Two different worlds but nevertheless there was always that that love and affection you know between the five of us even though we're kind of different. But I always enjoy being with my father. I seem to enjoy everything he was doing. His love for people and from the time I was very young I was always concerned about helping everybody. And this is why I struggled to go to work and go to school because when I graduated high school my father took six. I went out to work in a factory. I did the organization work and then they sent me to the school of

social science and then I went to the New York School of Social Work because I was interested in working with people. And here I am I'm still working with people is a thing that you're most proud of. CHAO. What I'm most proud of is having the opportunity. And the guts to fight the politicians. To fight the establishment and they're safe like the mafia. Here you had a little girl right. Hello. I did. I did. And. Even though my husband never agreed. To my going and speak to Joe Colombo's people I'm happy I did because it was a satisfaction. Tell us from the beginning what happened. It was I had been called several times by Joe Colombo to speak to his so-called grassroot people. He had the movement called the Italian Civil rights leader and it seems that Italians from all over the country joined him. And the reason why they joined him is they didn't. They knew nothing

about Joe Colombo. But there was all this new movement of ethnicity and they wanted to identify with a group that was Italian and lots and lots of those people knew nothing about Joe Colombo other than he had the civil rights movement it's about time you know we got out and did something to defend our people. Well he knew I had been working with Chowan and I had been. I was in the process of developing day care centers you know in senior centers. Which was being done from my basement incidentally. And he became very interested in wanting me I think what his motive was that he wanted it. He needed credibility. So he felt he ran getting the credibility. Now I join him. You know he can use me and I sensed this. So he insisted several times he called me and asked me to go speak at his.

Italian day you know so called in June. And each time I refused to one day insisted that I speak at a meeting at the park Sheraton Hotel in New York. So I didn't know whether I should go or not and I have two very good friends Ralph Salerno and Nick Pileggi. So I figured before I go let me consult him. And they both agreed that I should go. So they go with you know they didn't go with my hair. On my head. But nevertheless I was glad that they did. So I went and my young daughter came with me because she had a car. My husband refused to come because he didn't want to have any part of it. And my daughter Comella who was going to college in Brooklyn College at the time you know that liberal anti-war demonstration and everything she said I'll drive you. She came there and it was a very interesting meeting. Of course I wasn't frightened until the day after I

realized what could have happened. And thank God it didn't happen. I could not be here now. No I did not. But nevertheless as I mentioned you know I was happy because I was satisfied because there were a lot of people there that night that heard me speak. And realize what was really taking place. And as a result of my being there they quit. They left the civil rights leader and I have met a lot of these people I think you were at a meeting one night when a man came over to me he said I saw you. He said you stood eight feet tall four foot six. And I actually. You know. They were asking me questions and Joe Colombo at one point said Mrs. Sasha I want to. He said if you really respect the Italians you would join us against Ralph Salerno. And I said well I didn't come here to discuss. I said whatever your name is. Now I knew what his name was. I said I didn't come here to discuss rules for Ralph Salerno. However if you'd like to discuss him

I'll give you his name his phone number you can call him and invite him to dinner with his family. He is you know it was a major racketeering investigation. Well your feeling there is that the neighborhood people don't need the politicians they just need each other. By all means. There's no question about the politicians have never helped me. The Italian politicians have never helped me. Is it mostly women who work in China. Now we have a lot of men. As a matter of fact my board is made up mainly of men. As a matter of fact there were four men and myself. Now we have a few more women. Now you're a very well-established powerful organization right. Yes we are. But it wasn't always that way. Oh no. As a matter of fact we started from my basement and when we started you know the Italians are not geared towards social services. So we started with the idea of uniting the Italians. But I knew that was a human impossibility. And I had no intention of uniting the Italians. My idea was to get a group behind me

and start doing exactly what we're doing today which is social services and you have senior citizen centers where we have senior citizens and daycare daycare we have afterschool programs. We have. A summer program summer program we have community services. We have four community service store fronts and we're in the process of opening up a center for preventive services for children that we have. Altogether we have 19 programs. Nancy do you think that there is much communication between middle class women and working class women which have a lot of evidence that. There generally isn't. In terms of are you just talking about the women's movement. Yeah there is. There is so increasingly because a lot of women who would be defined as middle class even if simply because they've been to college who may have come from working class backgrounds are beginning to work with

working class women in certain communities there's a group in Brooklyn another part of Brooklyn and the Mira's which is called the National Congress of neighborhood women. And it has the potential of becoming national is now located in Brooklyn which has no chapters yet but will eventually hook up with women in other cities and is beginning to. It started at a college for a working class women in the community and a senior citizen center that they helped to build themselves and the leaders and the organizers are college educated women who felt the need to to work in these communities and try to help women to have a voice at least in certain areas and they've developed a marvelous education program with the help of a local community college. But a lot of it is very innovative. It's been based on what the women wanted to learn and how they wanted to learn. So there are some efforts like that that are beginning and there are organizations of office workers now in cities like San Francisco and Chicago and

Boston there's one called 4:51 where again it's been college educated women who've provided the leadership but. Simply to get it going. Most of the members who have become very active are non-college educated women. Is health care an issue for the women in your neighborhood. It certainly is especially for our. For our seniors seniors and our senior centers. I know that they find it very difficult because of finances and thank God in our seniors we have a doctor coming in once once a month. But nevertheless their biggest problem is trying to finance health care that they don't have the money which is a big problem for them. Well also just maneuvering the maze of the system it's got to be a problem. Oh yes it's a question of where to go. That's one of the things I was referring to before we're working class people kind of fall between the cracks because they very often can't afford regular visits to the doctor to a private doctor

and they're not eligible for benefits that poor people are. And that's a major concern for most of the working class women I've met are women like them and they're confused or just isn't proper health care especially for women. We're just hoping and seniors are just praying with the new administration that maybe they'll pass health insurance bill which had been started many years ago. I know that the National Council of senior citizens been introducing a bill to repeal year with the hopes that something would happen. Our only hope now is that the new administration will do something about it. When you speak of your seniors like I have to tell you that my vision of an Italian woman is with a show and staying home. And I find it very hard to believe that these women are going into a neighborhood. Senior citizens not by as a matter of fact I'll tell you something. Every once in a while you know I get a call from CBS. So one of the television groups or radio you know asking me a son a

year and Italian a senior and I know exactly what they mean the stereotype What's a black dress and the black shawl. So what I do is I look for the sexiest I've ever met. And I'll invariably send her or whether they station you know. And then they call me back and say Well that is what we were looking for. That's too bad we don't have what you're looking for. Because the center is changed they have changed. And as I mentioned I just wish you would come and see them. Nobody wears a black. Sure nobody wears a black dress and they're doing what everybody else is doing. We've had seven Matras seven marriages in four years. And they have taken trips and a lot of our seniors are having a ball. Do you think that a neighborhood woman anywhere can do some of the things that you're doing and should you be more involved.

I think they should. I think everybody should. I think these people are looking for somebody to go there and help them get out of the rut they've been in. I know where in Little Italy and we've seen women that haven't left their homes for years and we went to them. We spoke with them and now they were at our center having a good time and they look forward to just coming there and they have a hot meal which is something I've never had. Because when you're alone you don't want to cook for yourself. So they come and they eat and they have a good time. They dance they do arts and crafts. They've gone to going to college. We have two at a college. And last year 13 of our seniors. Graduated High School in Portland. They got a high school equivalency diploma and 23 of them attended to the college math and you're really hopeful about the situation after writing the book and meeting these women.

You think that there's more hope for you. Do some of our social problems because I think there's so much going on and there are so many women who are taking on all sorts of activities and trying to change things in their own communities. And a lot of times we just don't know about it. But I think it's increasing and. I left my experience of interviewing all of them with a great deal of optimism because just the 10 women in the book and there is somebody like them who are doing fantastic things to try to solve problems that exist in their lives or in their neighborhoods and in the workplace with their families friends whatever. And yeah I am hopeful. I think the only hope we have is the women. And I have a lot of hope but I'm very optimistic about the Italian women because I went to the Italian community you know and. We can get out and work with us. And I think the thing we have to do is give them an issue that they can work around and then we can get them out. I have to interrupt you I'm sorry. Thank you both very much for being here.

Thank you for watching and good night. Let me see. This program was produced by you and the TV which is solely responsible for its content. Major funding was provided by public television stations. Additional

support was provided by unrestricted general program grants from the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and the Ford Foundation. In