PBS NewsHour; August 13, 2010 6:00pm-7:00pm PDT

Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS

>> Lehrer: GOOD EVENING. I'M JIM LEHRER. PRESIDENT OBAMA TODAY SIGNED INTO LAW A $600 MILLION BORDER SECURITY BILL.

>> Brown: AND I'M JEFFREY BROWN. ON THE "NEWSHOUR" TONIGHT: HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY JANET NAPOLITANO TALKS ABOUT THE SITUATION ON THE BORDER AND OTHER IMMMIGRATION MATTERS.

>> Lehrer: THEN, MARGARET WARNER WITH ROBIN WRIGHT AND RAY TAKEYH ASSESS RUSSIA'S DECISION TO MOVE URANIUM FUEL TO A NUCLEAR POWER PLANT IN IRAN.

>> Brown: TOM BEARDEN REPORTS FROM THE GULF ON SEAFOOD SAFETY.

>> SOME LOUISIANA FISHERMAN ARE CONCERNED THE STATE IS ABOUT TO PREMATURELY REOPEN SOME FISHING GROUNDS, RISKING THE INDUSTRY'S ENTIRE FUTURE.

>> Lehrer: MARK SHIELDS AND MICHAEL GERSON SITTING IN FOR DAVID BROOKS PRESENT THEIR ANALYSIS OF THE WEEK'S NEWS.

>> Brown: AND, JUDY WOODRUFF TALKS TO VETERAN JOURNALIST CHARLES PETERS ABOUT HIS NEW BOOK ON THE PRESIDENCY OF LYNDON JOHNSON.

>> Lehrer: THAT'S ALL AHEAD ON TONIGHT'S "NEWSHOUR." MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY:

>> THIS IS THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS ABUNDANT GRAIN FROM THE AMERICAN HEARTLAND TO HARAN'S BEST SELLING WHOLE WHEAT, WHILE KEEPING 60 BILLION POUNDS OF CARBON OUT OF THE ATMOSPHERE EVERY YEAR. BNSF, THE ENGINE THAT CONNECTS US.

>> AND BY THE BILL AND MELINDA GATES FOUNDATION. DEDICATED TO THE IDEA THAT ALL PEOPLE DESERVE THE CHANCE TO LIVE A HEALTHY PRODUCTIVE LIFE. AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU.

>> Brown: SECURING THE U.S.- MEXICO BORDER WAS TOPIC NUMBER ONE AT THE WHITE HOUSE TODAY. IT CAME AS ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION RETURNS TO THE FRONT PAGES IN THE U.S. AND RAGING DRUG VIOLENCE SHAKES MEXICO.

>> Brown: THE U.S. MEXICO BORDER-- NEARLY 2000 MILES LONG, WITH MORE THAN 200 MILLION LEGAL CROSSINGS EVERY YEAR, AND UNCOUNTED NUMBERS OF ILLEGAL ONES. TODAY, PRESIDENT OBAMA SIGNED A BILL UPPING FUNDING FOR BORDER SECURITY BY $600 MILLION, WITH HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY-- JANET NAPOLITANO-- LOOKING ON. THE MONEY WILL HIRE 1,000 NEW BORDER PATROL AGENTS, PLUS 250 AGENTS FOR ICE-- THE IMMIGRATION AND CUSTOMS ENFORCEMENT AGENCY. AND 250 OFFICERS WITH U.S. CUSTOMS AND BORDER PROTECTION, THE AGENCY THAT POLICES AGAINST TERROR AND OTHER THREATS. MEANWHILE, ACROSS THE BORDER IN MEXICO-- AS VIOLENCE BROUGHT ON BY DRUG CARTELS CONTINUES TO SPREAD, AS DAILY SCENES OF MURDER MOUNT-- POLITICAL LEADERS, INCLUDING PRESIDENT FELIPE CALDERON AND MEXICAN STATE GOVERNORS HAVE BEEN MEETING IN MEXICO CITY THIS WEEK TO SEEK SOLUTIONS.

>> ( translated ): GIVEN THE PROVEN FIREPOWER OF ORGANIZED CRIME GROUPS, IT IS NECESSARY TO SEAL THE BORDER TO ARMS TRAFFICKING. WE PROPOSE THE FEDERAL POLICE, THE ARMY AND THE MARINES COMPLIMENT THE WORK OF CUSTOMS POLICE AT EVERY SINGLE ENTRY POINT INTO OUR COUNTRY.

>> Brown: PRESIDENT CALDERON HAS ADMITTED THE MILITARY TACTICS HE IMPLEMENTED 3 1/2 YEARS AGO HAVE FAILED TO REIN IN THE CARTELS. IN THAT TIME PERIOD, MORE THAN 28,000 PEOPLE HAVE BEEN KILLED IN DRUG-RELATED VIOLENCE, AND SOME OF IT HAS SPILLED OVER THE BORDER INTO THE UNITED STATES. ALL OF THIS UNFOLDS AS PRESIDENT OBAMA'S CALL FOR COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM IN THIS COUNTRY HAS STALLED. AT A WHITE HOUSE BRIEFING TODAY, PRESS SECRETARY ROBERT GIBBS SAID ANY MOVEMENT WILL TAKE LEADERSHIP FROM BOTH PARTIES.

>> NOTHING IS GOING TO HAPPEN ON THIS ISSUE THAT ONLY INVOLVES ONE PARTY OR ONE PERSON. QUESTION IS, WE WILL GET COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM WHEN WE GO BACK TO A TIME IN WHICH BOTH DEMS AND REPUBLICANS ARE WILLING TO BE LEADERS.

>> Brown: AND WITH THOSE PROSPECTS DIM, A NUMBER OF INDIVIDUAL STATES ARE MOVING TOWARD TAKING MATTERS MORE INTO THEIR OWN HANDS. EARLIER THIS AFTERNOON, I SPOKE WITH HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY NAPOLITANO. SECRETARY NAPOLITANO, WELCOME.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Brown: AT THAT BRIEFING TODAY YOU WERE ASKED IF THE $600 MILLION IS ENOUGH AND YOU SAID THIS IS WHAT WE ASKED FOR. AND OF COURSE WHAT WE ASKED FOR IS WHAT WE THOUGHT WOULD BE ENOUGH. SO THE QUESTION IS ENOUGH FOR WHAT. WHAT WILL THIS ACCOMPLISH?

>> WHAT WE'RE DOING IS MAKING SURE THAT WE HAVE A SAFE AND SECURE BORDER REGION FROM SAN DIEGO ALL THE WAY TO BROWNSVILLE. AND THAT MEANS MANPOWER, IT MEANS TECHNOLOGY, IT MEANS INFRASTRUCTURE, IT MEANS INTERIOR ENFORCEMENT. ALL, YOU KNOW, KIND OF LAYERED IN IN APPROPRIATE WAYS AND MAKING SURE LIKE I SAID BEFORE THE BORDER IS SAFE AND SECURE.

>> Brown: DOES IT MEAN STOPPING THE FLOW, DOES IT MEAN STOPPING THE VIOLENCE OR STEMMING, GIVE US A RANGE HERE OF HOW YOU THINK ABOUT IT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, THE VIOLENCE IS MOSTLY IN MEXICO ITSELF, AT LEAST THE VIOLENCE THAT PEOPLE ARE WORRIED ABOUT. AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT VIOLENCE DOES NOT SPILL OVER INTO OUR COMMUNITIES THAT ARE ALONG THE BORDER. AND IT MEANS HAVING OPERATIONAL CONTROL BETWEEN THE PORTS OF ENTRY AND WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT LEGITIMATE TRAFFIC THROUGH THOSE PORTS OF ENTRY FLOWS VERY SMOOTHLY AND EFFICIENTLY.

>> I WOULD LOVE TO YOU FILL IN THE PICTURE A LITTLE BIT. BECAUSE THERE IS A LOT OF RHETORIC, OF COURSE, ON ALL OF THIS ABOUT THE BORDER AND SECURITY. WHAT EXACTLY IS THE SITUATION. OUR RECENT NUMBERS SUGGEST THAT THE FLOW HAS DIMINISHED, MAYBE PERHAPS BECAUSE OF THE ECONOMY. AND THAT SOME OF THE REPORTS OF VIOLENCE ARE, IT'S NOT AS BAD AS SOMETIMES WE HEAR. NOW WHAT IS YOUR, DESCRIBE THE PICTURE THAT YOU SEE.

>> RIGHT, AND I THINK IT'S-- YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN INVOLVED IN WORKING ON LAW ENFORCEMENT ALONG THE BORDER FOR 17 YEARS BOTH AS A U.S. ATTORNEY AND ATTORNEY GENERAL AND AS A GOVERNOR. SO I KNOW THIS BORDER VERY, VERY WELL. AND THE PLAIN FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT ALL OF THE NUMBERS ARE TRENDING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION GOING DOWN. FEARS OF DRUGS, WEAPONS, CASH GOING UP. AND SO WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE SUSTAIN THAT. THAT THAT'S NOT JUST A TEMPORARY THING BUT THAT IS SOMETHING THAT IS PERMANENT.

>> AND THAT IS SO THE OBVIOUS QUESTION OF WHY SEND MORE IF THINGS ARE TRENDING IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION.

>> BECAUSE THERE IS ALWAYS MORE THAT WE CAN DO. AND AGAIN, PART OF THE REASON FOR THAT TREND IS WE HAVE TEMPORARILY DEPLOYED ASSETS TO THE BORDER. SINCE MARCH OF 2009 WE WANT TO MAKE THOSE DEPLOYMENTS PERMANENT. AND SO WHAT THE CONGRESS DID IN A BIPARTISAN WAY IS PASSED A DECISIONAL FUNDING AT THE-- ADDITIONAL FUNDING AT THE PRESIDENT'S REQUEST SO THAT WE HAVE ADDITIONAL ASSETS AND MAKE PERMANENT THE NEW ASSETS THAT WE ALREADY MOVED TO THE BORDER ITSELF.

>> Brown: YOU DID HAVE BIPARTISAN SUPPORT BUT QUICKLY ARIZONA SENATORS McCAIN AND KYL TODAY CAME OUT WITH A STATEMENT. THEY REFER TO THIS AS JUST A START. THEY CITED SEVERAL PLACES WHERE YOU COULD HAVE MORE FUNDING AND MORE PROJECTS AND MORE THINGS THEY WOULD LIKE TO BE DONE. YOU THINK THIS IS ENOUGH FOR NOW?

>> I THINK SO. AND I THINK THAT AGAIN, WHAT WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE DO IS NOT JUST THROW MONEY AT THE BORDER BUT DO THINGS THAT WORK. DO THINGS THAT MAKE SENSE. DO THINGS THAT ARE EFFICIENT AND AGAIN ESTABLISH CONTROL ALONG THAT WHOLE 2,000 MILE LONG BORDER. AND AS WE DO THAT, LET'S MAKE SURE THAT WITCH'S GOT THE RIGHT MIX. THE RIGHT MIX OF MANPOWER, TECHNOLOGY AND INFRASTRUCTURE.

>> Brown: NOW YOU REFER TO THE VIOLENCE ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BOARD NEVER MEXICO AND IN OUR SETUP WE TALKED ABOUT THESE MEETINGS IN MEXICO CITY TODAY. HOW MUCH OF A DAMAGER IS THERE IN TERMS OF SPREADING TO THE U.S. AND ARE YOU GETTING THE KIND OF COOPERATION THAT YOU WANT FROM MEXICAN OFFICIALS?

>> YOU KNOW, WE ARE WORKING VERY CLOSELY WITH MEXICAN OFFICIALS IN THE CALDERON ADMINISTRATION. IN A MUCH MORE DIRECT WAY THAN WE EVER HAVE BEFORE. AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT WE KNOW WILL CONTINUE. AND THERE ARE SOME UNIQUE PARTNERSHIPS THAT HAVE EVOLVED OUT OF THAT. BUT WE ALSO KNOW THAT PARTS OF MEXICO , CIUDAD JUAREZ, FOR EXAMPLE, HAVE EXPERIENCED REALLY UNBELIEVABLE VIOLENCE. AND SO WE ALSO WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT DOESN'T ITSELF ENTER INTO THE UNITED STATES. RIGHT NOW THE COMMUNITY AS LONG THE BORDER ARE, BY STATISTICS ANYWAY, AMONG THE SAFEST IN THE UNITED STATES.

>> Brown: BUT THE PROBLEM OVER ON THAT SIDE DOES NOT SEEM TO HAVE ABATED AT ALL.

>> IT IS A TERRIFIC PROBLEM. AND IT MAY BE IN PART BECAUSE PRESIDENT CALDERON IS REALLY GOING AFTER THOSE CARTELS. AND SO YOU HAVE VIOLENCE THAT RESULTS FROM THAT, AND VIOLENCE BETWEEN CARTELS FIGHTING OVER, YOU KNOW, FEWER AND FEWER MILES OF REAL ESTATE.

>> Brown: NOW COMING BACK TO U.S. POLICY AND POLITICS, THE LARGER QUESTION OF COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM WHICH DOES NOT SEEM TO BE GOING ANYWHERE IN CONGRESS. COULD ONE LOOK AT THIS, WHAT YOU HAVE DONE TODAY, THE NEW LAW AS A KIND OF POLITICAL COVER IN A SENSE FOR THE LACK OF SOMETHING LARGER WHICH THE PRESIDENT HAS WANTED?

>> I LOOK AT IT VERY DIFFERENTLY. I THINK THAT WE WANT A SAFE AND SECURE BORDER AREA. THIS IS A GREAT SET OF TOOLS THAT WILL ADD TO WHAT WE'VE ALREADY DONE TO MAKE SURE WE HAVE THAT. AT THE SAME TIME, HOWEVER, WE DO NEED COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM. THE PRESIDENT HAS BEEN VERY, VERY FIRM ON THAT. HE'S MET WITH THE LEADERS OF THE CONGRESS, BOTH PARTIES. HE'S ENDORSED A FRAMEWORK THAT WAS CONSTRUCTED BY SENATORS SCHUMER AND GRAHAM. HE GAVE A MAJOR ADDRESS AT AN AMERICAN UNIVERSITY JUST A FEW WEEKS AGO. SO HE CONTINUES TO INVITE CONGRESS TO THE TABLE BUT, AGAIN, HE NEEDS SOME REPUBLICANS TO CROSS OVER TO GET IT DONE.

>> Brown: DO YOU SEE ANY PROSPECTS OF THAT, PARTICULARLY AS WE ARE ENTERING INTO AN ELECTION SEASON?

>> YOU KNOW, I THINK SO, YOU KNOW, BETWEEN NOW AND THE ELECTION, VERY, VERY DIFFICULT.

>> Brown: WHERE DO YOU SEE IT?

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK IN CONVERSATIONS WITH MEMBERS OF THE SENATE AND OTHERS, THEY ALL RECOGNIZE THAT THE ISSUE OF IMMIGRATION IS IMPORTANT. IT'S IMPORTANT TO OUR NATION, IT'S IMPORTANT TO OUR PUBLIC SAFETY, IT'S IMPORTANT TO OUR SECURITY, IT'S IMPORTANT TO OUR ECONOMIC WELL-BEING MOVING FORWARD. AND IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO GO AWAY. SO AT SOME POINT LEADERSHIP WILL HAVE TO COME TO THE TABLE, BOTH PARTIES, PARTICULARLY REPUBLICANS. AND WORK THIS PROBLEM OUT.

>> AND ONE OTHER ISSUE THAT HAS BEEN IN THE AIR RECENT DAYS IS THE TALK OF THE REPEALING THE 14th AMENDMENT, THE SO-CALLED BIRTH RIGHT CITIZENSHIP LANGUAGE. AT THE BRIEFING YOU WERE ASKED ABOUT IT AND YOU SAID FLAT OUT IT'S WRONG, WHY?

>> IT WRONG. THERE'S NO NEED TO OPEN THE UNITED STATES CONSTITUTION TO DEAL WITH IMMIGRATION ISSUES, PARTICULARLY WHEN YOU HAVEN'T DONE THE FIRST THING WHICH IS TO LOOK AT THE UNDERLYING STATUTES AND MAKE SURE THAT OUR STATUTORY IMMIGRATION SCHEME REALLY FITS THE NEEDS OF THE 21st CENTURY. THERE ARE CHANGES IT THAT NEED TO BE MADE ON ENFORCEMENT. THERE'S CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE IN TERMS IT OF WORKER FLOWS. THERE ARE CHANGES THAT NEED TO BE MADE SO THAT THOSE IN THE COUNTRY ILLEGALLY GET RIGHT WITH THE LAW. THEY WOULD PAY A FINE. THEY WOULD LEARN ENGLISH. THEY ESTABLISH THAT THEY'VE PAID TAXES AND THAT THEY HAVE A CRIME-FREE RECORD SO THAT THEY CAN COME OUT OF THE SHADOWS.

>> Brown: BUT DO YOU THINK THAT THIS MOVEMENT HAS ANGER BEHIND IT? DO YOU KNOW IT IN YOUR OWN STATES, ORIGINAL STATES YOU'VE SEEN N YOUR STATE OF ARIZONA, YOU'VE SEEN IT. YOU'VE SEEN ANGER AND A LOT OF ENERGY BEHIND SOMETHING, DOING SOMETHING LIKE THIS.

>> RIGHT. AND WHEN I HEAR THE DO SOMETHING, SOMETIMES I THINK THEY DON'T KNOW, OR WE HAVEN'T MADE MANIFESTS ALL THAT IS BEING DONE. AND THE PLAIN FACT OF THE MATTER IS THAT IN THE LAST 18 MONTHS, MORE RESOURCES HAVE BEEN DEPLOYED TO THE SOUTHWEST BORDER THAN AT ANY TIME IN THE UNITED STATES HISTORY. AND THE BILL PRESIDENT OBAMA SIGNED THIS MORNING WILL ENABLE US NOT ONLY TO GROW THAT BUT TO SUSTAIN IT.

>> Brown: ALL RIGHT, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY JANET NAPOLITANO, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: STILL TO COME ON THE "NEWSHOUR": THE RUSSIA-IRANIAN REACTOR DEAL; GULF SEAFOOD SAFETY; SHIELDS AND GERSON AND PETERS ON JOHNSON. BUT FIRST, THE OTHER NEWS OF THE DAY. HERE'S HARI SREENIVASAN IN OUR NEWSROOM.

>> Sreenivasan: RELIEF GROUPS WARNED TODAY THAT AID FOR THE PAKISTAN FLOOD VICTIMS IS FALLING SHORT WITH NEARLY 14 MILLION PEOPLE AFFECTED. MEANWHILE, NEW FLOODING SPREAD IN SINDH PROVINCE, IN THE SOUTH. WE HAVE A REPORT FROM JONATHAN MILLER OF INDEPENDENT TELEVISION NEWS.

>> Reporter: YOU'RE LOOKING AT A RIVER THAT BECAME AN INLAND SEA. THE SUPERFLOOD NOW SLOWLY BUT SURELY DROWNING CENTRAL SIND. SUBMERGED BETWEEN THESE CONTAMINATED WATERS SOME OF THE HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF RICE, WHEAT E -- WHEAT, SUGAR CANE AND COTTON THAT'S BEEN LOST. BEYOND THE GHOST VILLAGE, ABANDONED . VILLAGERS HAVE MADE THE CROSSING, A LOCAL DOG STRANDED ON HIGH GROUND BY THE FLOOD HAS FOLLOWED THEM ACROSS. THE FAMILIES AND LIVESTOCK ALL SAFELY OUT. THEY HAD GONE BACK TO SALVAGE BAMBOO POLES AND OTHER BITS AND PIECES TO BUILD A LEAN-TO. TODAY THE FIRST FRIDAY IN THIS THE HOLY MONTH OF RAMADAN, INSIDE THIS TINY MOSQUE ONLY A HANDFUL OF WORSHIPERS, MOST HAVE FLED THE RISING WATER. ACROSS PAKISTAN TODAY, PRAYERS BEING SAID THAT THE WATERS WILL RECEDE. IT COULD BE BECAUSE OF WHAT WE'VE DONE. IT COULD BE BECAUSE OF OUR SINS THAT THIS CALAMITY HAS BEFALLEN US IT COULD BE BECAUSE OF THE WRATH OF GOD.

>> Reporter: UNDER THIS BRIDGE THERE IS A SPECTATOR'S GALLERY. THEY JUST SIT AND WATCH THE RIVER FLOW. A RELIEF WORKER TOLD US TODAY THAT THE ASIAN TSUNAMI AND THE PAKISTAN EARTHQUAKE WERE LIKE HEART ATTACKS. THIS IS LIKE A CANCER, HE SAID. IT JUST KEEPS SPREADING.

>> IN

>> Sreenivasan: IN RUSSIA, HEAVY RAIN BROUGHT MUCH-NEEDED RELIEF TO MOSCOW, AFTER WEEKS OF TRIPLE-DIGIT HEAT AND DROUGHT. SKIES WERE ALSO CLEAR OF TOXIC SMOG PRODUCED BY WILDFIRES. BUT NEARLY 30 FIRES CONTINUED BURNING NEAR THE RUSSIAN CAPITAL, ALONG WITH NEARLY 500 MORE BLAZES ACROSS THE COUNTRY. ONE WAS NEAR A TOP NUCLEAR FACILITY EAST OF MOSCOW. THE NATO COALITION IN SOUTHERN AFGHANISTAN HAS SUFFERED THREE MORE CASUALTIES. TWO BRITISH TROOPS DIED IN THE LAST 24 HOURS. A THIRD COALITION SERVICE MEMBER WAS KILLED TODAY BY INSURGENTS. THERE WAS NO WORD ON HIS NATIONALITY. CALIFORNIA CONGRESSWOMAN MAXINE WATERS DEFENDED HERSELF TODAY AGAINST CHARGES SHE VIOLATED HOUSE ETHICS RULES. INVESTIGATORS CONTEND THE VETERAN DEMOCRAT HELPED SECURE BAILOUT FUNDS FOR A BANK WHERE HER HUSBAND SERVED ON THE BOARD. IN WASHINGTON TODAY, WATERS INSISTED SHE TRIED TO HELP MINORITY-OWNED BANKS IN GENERAL NOT ANY SINGLE INSTITUTION.

>> I HAVE NOT VIOLATED ANY HOUSE RULES. I FULLY DISCLOSED ALL OF MY FINANCIAL INFORMATION AS REQUESTED BY HOUSE RULES. NEITHER MY STAFF NOR I ENGAGED IN ANY IMPROPER BEHAVIOR AND WE DID NOT INFLUENCE ANY ONE. AND WE DID NOT GAIN ANY BENEFIT.

>> Sreenivasan: WATERS ALSO CRITICIZED THE ETHICS COMMITTEE FOR ITS HANDLING OF HER CASE. SHE FACES A HOUSE ETHICS TRIAL THIS FALL. WALL STREET ENDED A ROUGH WEEK WITH ITS FOURTH LOSING DAY IN A ROW. THE DOW JONES INDUSTRIAL AVERAGE WAS DOWN MORE THAN 16 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 10,303. THE NASDAQ ALSO FELL MORE THAN 16 POINTS TO CLOSE AT 2,173. FOR THE WEEK, THE DOW LOST MORE THAN 3%. THE NASDAQ FELL 5%. THOSE ARE SOME OF THE DAY'S MAJOR STORIES. NOW, BACK TO JIM.

>> Lehrer: AND NOW, IRAN'S NUCLEAR DEAL WITH RUSSIA. MARGARET WARNER HAS OUR STORY.

>> Warner: AN ANNOUNCEMENT FROM MOSCOW THIS MORNING PUT IRAN A STEP CLOSER TO OPENING ITS FIRST-EVER NUCLEAR POWER PLANT. NEXT WEEK, TECHNICIANS WILL START LOADING URANIUM FUEL RODS INTO A RUSSIAN-BUILT REACTOR IN IRAN. THIS WILL KICK OFF A MONTHS-LONG START-UP AT THE BUSHEHR FACILITY.

>> ON AUGUST 21, THE DELIVERY OF NUCLEAR FUEL WILL BEGIN TO THE POWER UNIT OF THE BUSHEHR NUCLEAR POWER STATION. FROM THAT MOMENT, THE POWER UNIT WILL BE OFFICIALLY CONSIDERED A NUCLEAR ENERGY INSTALLATION.

>> Warner: BUSHEHR IS IN SOUTHERN IRAN, NEAR THE PERSIAN GULF. IT'S QUITE SEPARATE FROM THE URANIUM ENRICHMENT PLANT AT NATANZ, IN CENTRAL IRAN. NATANZ IS AMONG THE FACILITIES GENERATING U.S. CONCERN THAT IRAN IS DEVELOPING NUCLEAR WEAPONS. MOSCOW SAYS BUSHEHR SHOULDN'T CAUSE WORRY BECAUSE TEHRAN SIGNED A CONTRACT TO RETURN THAT PLANT'S SPENT FUEL TO RUSSIA, SO IT CAN'T TURNED INTO WEAPONS-GRADE MATERIAL. AND INSPECTORS FROM THE U.N.'S INTERNATIONAL ATOMIC ENERGY AGENCY WILL MONITOR ACTIVITIES THERE. REACTION IN WASHINGTON TODAY WAS MUTED. WHITE HOUSE SPOKESMAN ROBERT GIBBS SAID THE IRANIAN-RUSSIAN DEAL SHOWS THERE'S NO NEED FOR IRAN TO ENRICH ITS OWN URANIUM, IF ALL IT WANTS IS A CIVILIAN NUCLEAR PROGRAM.

>> I THINK, IN MANY WAYS THIS IS A CONCEPT THAT CLOSES THAT FUEL LOOP AND I THINK AGAIN DEMONSTRATES AND PROVES TO THE WORLD THAT IF THE IRANIANS ARE SINCERE IN A PEACEFUL PROGRAM, THEIR NEEDS CAN BE MET WITHOUT UNDERTAKING ITS OWN ENRICHMENT PROGRAM WHICH CALL INTO QUESTION ITS MOTIVES.

>> Reporter: BUT LAST MARCH, MEETING WITH RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER SERGEY LAVROV IN MOSCOW, SECRETARY OF STATE CLINTON QUESTIONED THE WISDOM OF FINISHING BUSHEHR RIGHT NOW.

>> IRAN IS ENTITLED TO CIVIL NUCLEAR POWER. IT IS A NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM THAT IT IS NOT ENTITLED TO. AND IF IT REASSURES THE WORLD OR WE THINK IT WOULD BE PREMATURE TO GO FORWARD WITH ANY PROJECT AT THIS TIME BECAUSE WE WANT TO SEND AN UNEQUIVOCAL MESSAGE TO THE IRANIANS.

>> Warner: FOREIGN MINISTER LAVROV REJECTED THAT POSITION.

>> ( translated ): THIS PROJECT WILL BE FINISHED. THIS NUCLEAR POWER STATION IN THE IRANIAN PORT CITY OF BUSHEHR WILL BE LAUNCHED, IT WILL BE WORKING AND GIVING ELECTRIC ENERGY.

>> Warner: BUSHEHR HAS BEEN UNDER CONSTRUCTION FOR DECADES-- FIRST BY THE GERMANS, AND IN THE LAST 15 YEARS, BY THE RUSSIANS. FOR MORE ON BUSHEHR AND THE REST OF IRAN'S NUCLEAR PROGRAM WE TURN TO RAY TAKEYH, A SENIOR FELLOW AT THE COUNCIL ON FOREIGN RELATIONS. HE WAS A SENIOR ADVISER TO THE OBAMA ADMINISTRATION ON IRAN POLICY LAST YEAR. HIS LATEST BOOK IS: "THE GUARDIANS OF THE REVOLUTION: IRAN'S APPROACH TO THE WORLD." AND ROBIN WRIGHT, AN AUTHOR AND JOURNALIST WHO HAS COVERED IRAN SINCE 1973. SHE'S NOW A FELLOW AT THE U.S. INSTITUTE OF PEACE. HER LATEST BOOK IS "DREAMS AND SHADOWS: THE FUTURE OF THE MIDDLE EAST." WELCOME TO YOU BOTH. WELCOME BACK. SO ROB IN BEGINNING WITH YOU-- ROBIN, BEGINNING WITH YOU, WHAT DO YOU MAKE OF THIS, HOW SIGNIFICANT OF SAY DEVELOPMENT IS THIS FOR IRAN'S TOTAL NUCLEAR PROGRAM? IN OTHER WORDS, SHOULD WASHINGTON BE ALARMED HERE?

>> WELL, BUSHAR HAS NEVER BEEN THE SUBJECT OF U.N. RESOLUTIONS IT IS FOR PEACEFUL NUCLEAR ENERGY. BUT IT DOES COME AT A VERY IMPORTANT TIME PSYCHOLOGICALLY. THE UNITED STATES IS TRYING TO GET IRAN TO SUSPEND NUCLEAR-- URANIUM ENRICHMENT WHICH CAN BE USED FOR A WEAPONS PROGRAM. AND IT COMES AT A TIME THAT WE ARE ALL TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS NEXT. IRAN WON'T COOPERATE CHKTS IS THERE A CHANCE FOR DIPLOMACY. ARE YOU BEGINNING TO HEAR THE DRUMBEAT OF WAR ALREADY ABOUT IRAN. SO PSYCHOLOGICALLY THE OPENING OF THIS PLANT BRINGS ALL OF THIS HOME AT THE SAME TIME.

>> Warner: HOW DO YOU SEE IT.

>> I WOULD SAY THAT IS LARGELY ACCURATE. I THINK IT HAS A SYMBOLIC SIGNIFICANCE AS WELL BECAUSE THE RESOLUTIONS MOST RECENTLY PASSED SUGGEST THAT STATES SHOULD BE CAUTIOUS AND VIGILANT ABOUT DEALING WITH IRAN ON SENSITIVE NUCLEAR TECHNOLOGY. AND EVEN THOUGH BUSHAR WAS GRANDFATHERED IN AND NOT MENTIONED IN PREVIOUS COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS T DOES CONSTITUTE SORT OF A SYMBOLIC REBUCK AT THIS LEVEL.

>> Warner: SO IN OTHER WORDS, IRAN CAN SAY THE BIG POWERS WILL STILL DEAL WITH US?

>> WELL, THAT'S RIGHT. PARTICULARLY ON THE ISSUE OF NUCLEAR COMMERCE. NAMELY THAT THE NUCLEAR RELATIONSHIP CAN CONTINUE IN WHATEVER DECOLLARATIONS ARE MADE OF SECURITY COUNCIL NOTWITHSTANDING.

>> Warner: SO ROBIN WRIGHT K WHY IS RUSSIA DOING THIS RIGHT NOW. RUSSIA HAS VOUTED NOW FOR THE FOURTH ROUND OF SANCTION.

>> THIS STARTED A LONG TIME AGO. IT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE FINISHED IN THE 90s AND IT INVOLVES A BILLION DOLLAR DEAL. THIS IS AN IMPORTANT COMMERCIAL BUSINESS DEAL FOR THE RUSSIANS. AND YOU HAVE TO REMEMBER THAT THE UNITED STATES AGREED IN THE '70s TO ALLOW THE SHAW'S GOVERNMENT TO HAVE 22 NUCLEAR REACTORS. WE AGREED TO THE PRINCIPLES THAT IRAN, EVEN THOUGH IT IS A MAJOR OIL PRODUCER NEEDS NUCLEAR ENERGY. AND SO THIS IS THE FIRST ONE. WE APPROVED IN THE '70s, 22, THIS IS THE FIRST ONE 30, ALMOST 40 YEARS LATER IT IS OPENING.

>> Warner: ONE, DO YOU AGREE WITH THAT ABOUT RUSSIA THAT IT IS REALLY ABOUT MONEY?

>> WELL, IT'S ALSO THE WAY THE RUSSIANS ALWAYS HANDLE THINGS. NAMELY THEY TRY TO KEEP ALL CHANNELS OPEN AND HAVE LEVERAGE OVER THE IRANIANS BECAUSE THEY CONTINUE TO TRADE. HAVE LEVERAGE OVER THE UNITED STATES BY HAVING A NUCLEAR RELATIONSHIP THAT THEY CAN CONTINUE DEPEND ON WHAT THEY WANT WITH THE UNITED STATES ON VARIOUS OTHER AVENUES. SO IT IS A GAME THE RUSSIANS CONTINUALLY PLAY AS THEY PASS RESOLUTIONS, BUT THEN THEY KEEP THE DOOR AJAR FOR THE IRANIANS SOMEWHAT.

>> Warner: KEEPING ALL THEIR OPTIONS OPEN.

>> THAT'S RIGHT.

>> Warner: WHAT ABOUT ROBERT GIBB'S STATEMENT TODAY. HE DIDN'T EXPRESS ANY ALARM WHATSOEVER DESPITE WHAT SECRETARY CLINTON HAD SAID WHAT, SIX MONTHS AGO.

>> WELL, THE FACT IS WITH THE FOCUS IS ON URANIUM ENRICHMENT. AND THIS IS WHERE BUSHAR IS INTERESTING. IT HAS A DEAL WHERE THE RUSSIANS WILL PROVIDE THE FUEL AND TAKE AWAY THE SPENT FUEL. AND SO THAT UNDERSCORES WHAT GIBBS WAS TRYING TO SAY AND THAT IS THEN WHY DOES IRAN NEED THIS URANIUM ENRICHMENT. THERE ARE LOTS OF DIFFERENT WAYS FOR IT TO HAVE PEACEFUL NUCLEAR ENERGY WITHOUT HAVING ITS OWN URANIUM ENRICHMENT THAT COULD THEN BE USES FOR WEAPONS PURPOSES.

>> Warner: GIBBS MADE IT FOUND LIKE WASHINGTON IS ALMOST WELCOMING THIS. DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE CASE OR WERE THEY MAKING THE BEST OF AN UNWELCOME DEVELOPMENT.

>> I MEAN BUSHAR IS NOT IRAN'S PATH TO NUCLEAR WEAPONS IT IS LIKELY TO BE HAVING A VATZ DOMESTIC ENRICHMENT CAPABILITY WITH POSSIBILITIES OF DIVERSION AND-- SO IN AND OF ITSELF IT IS NOT A PRO LITTL LITTLE-- PROLIFERATION RISK.

>> Warner: BUT IS THERE NO WAY THAT IRAN COULD TURN THIS TO USE FOR THE NUCLEAR PROGRAM, FOR EXAMPLE, WHAT KEEPS THEM FROM BREAKING THE CONTRACT TO RETURN THE SPENT FUEL TO RUSSIA AND JUST KEEPING IT?

>> BECAUSE THERE'S NO REASON TO KEEP IT. IT'S ACTUALLY DANGEROUS FOR THEM TO KEEP IT AND THEY DON'T HAVE THE CAPABILITY TO REOPRO SES REOPRO SES IT THEMSELVES. SO FOR THEM TO EVEN THINK OF IT WOULD BE VERY COUNTERPRODUCTIVE.

>> Warner: AND DOES IT HELP THEM ACQUIRE ANY PARTICULAR EXPERTISE?

>> WELL, THIS IS A IRAN'S PATH HAS BEEN ON ENRICHMENT OF URANIUM IT MAY HAVE SOME SORT OF TECHNICAL IMPLICATIONS. BUT LARGELY IT HAS TO DO WITH WHAT HAPPENS IN THE TOWNS AND WHATEVER, AS I SAID, PLANS IRAN MAY HAVE OTHERWISE. THAT IN AND OF ITSELF I DO NOT SEE THE CONNECTION OF THOSE TWO AS OBVIOUS.

>> SO THAT LEAVES THE BIG QUESTION OF WHAT HAPPENS NEXT. WE'VE SEEN AS I SAID THE FOURTH ROUND OF U.N. SANCTIONS. THEN THE U.S. AND EU SLAPPED ADDITIONAL SANCTIONS JUST IN THE LAST FEW WEEKS. YET LAST WEEK, RAY TAKEYH, THE PRESIDENT HAD A MEETING WITH A GROUP OF JOURNALISTS AND TALKED ABOUT THE PATHWAY STILL TO A PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT. WHAT IS GOING TO BE THE NEXT ROUND IN ALL OF THIS.

>> THIS IS A TWO-TRACK POLICY. IRAN HAS A PATH TO NEGOTIATIONS BUT ALSO THERE IS A ELEMENT TO IT. I THINK IT IS NOW HOPED THAT ECONOMIC SANCTIONS WILL LEAD IRAN TO AM COULD BACK TO THE TABLE AND NEGOTIATE IN AN EARNEST WAY. I THINK IRANIANS WILL COME BACK TO THE TABLE IN THE FALL. I'M NOT SURE HOW EARNESTLY THEY WILL NEGOTIATE.

>> Warner: DO YOU SEE THAT? DO YOU SEE NEGOTIATIONS THIS FALL?

>> I THINK THE ADMINISTRATION IS ALREADY IN THE STAGE, ALREADY PLANNING FOR IT. AND THERE'S HOPE THAT THEY CAN TALK ABOUT AN INTERIM AGREEMENT THAT WOULD ALLOW IRAN TO GET SOME HELP FOR A SMALL RESEARCH REACTOR, SOME FUEL THAT THE INTERNATIONAL COMMUNITY COULD PROVIDE. AND THAT WOULD THEN OPEN THE WAY FOR AN EXTENDED PERIOD OF DIPLOMACY, PERHAPS A YEAR OR LONGER, TO DEAL WITH THE BIGGER ISSUE OF IRAN'S NUCLEAR WEAPONS CAPABILITY AND WHAT IT HAS BEEN SECRETLY WORK ON. WILL THAT WORK, I'M NOT CONFIDENT. I HAVE NEVER BEEN SO PESSIMISTIC PESSIMISTIC ABOUT THE PROSPECT OF DIPLOMACY BUT IT'S CLEAR THAT THIS ADMINISTRATION IS NOT HEARING THE DRUMBEAT OF WAR, THAT THEY BELIEVE THERE IS A YEAR OR MORE OF DIPLOMACY AND OTHER EFFORTS. BECAUSE THEY CAN STILL GO BACK TO THE UNITED NATIONS AND WOULD PROBABLY HAVE TO IF THERE WERE ANY KIND OF MILITARY ACTION.

>> BUT WHEN YOU TALKED ABOUT THE DRUMBEAT OF WAR THAT HAS BEEN OUT IN THE AIR, WHAT ARE YOU REFERRING TO, BRIEFLY?

>> WELL, THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY HAS A PIECE. THERE HAVE BEEN A NUMBER OF COLUMNS.

>> Warner: ABOUT THE THINKING IN ISRAEL.

>> THE THINKING IN ISRAEL AND THE POINT OF NO RETURN AND HAD REALREADY CROSSED THE THRESHOLD THAT ISRAEL BELIEVES IF NOTHING IS DONE IT WILL HAVE TO STRIKE AND IT IS BASICALLY PRESSURING THE UNITED STATES ALSO TO CONSIDER TAKING MILITARY ACTION. AND I DON'T THINK-- I THINK THAT'S JUMPING THE GUN BY A YEAR OR MORE.

>> I HAVE HEARD FROM ISRAELI THAT THIS IS AN EXISTENTIAL THREAT AND THIS SUMMER IS THE LAST SUMMER IS, THAT WAS 2004, 2005 AND NOW THIS NEXT SUMMER. AND NEXT SUMMER IT WILL BE THE FOLLOWING SUMMER. SO I DON'T ACTUALLY BELIEVE THAT THERE IS GOING TO BE AN ISRAELI WAR. I THINK ISRAELIS ARE RISKS ONE DANGER. BY CONTINUALLY TALKING ABOUT EXI SENSE THREATS, AND THROW THE FOLLOWING THROUGH THEY ARE INCREASINGLY FACING A POTENTIAL CREDIBILITY CRISIS.

>> Warner: RAY TAKEYH AND ROBIN WRIGHT, THANK YOU SO MUCH.

>> THANK YOU.

>> Brown: NEXT: THE CONTINUING FALLOUT OF THE GULF OIL SPILL. THOUGH THE WELL APPEARS TO BE PLUGGED, THE GOVERNMENT'S POINT MAN-- RETIRED COAST GUARD ADMIRAL THAD ALLEN-- INSISTED TODAY B.P. MUST STILL COMPLETE A RELIEF WELL TO ENSURE THE JOB IS DONE FOR GOOD. NO OIL HAS LEAKED SINCE MID- JULY. BUT MANY CONCERNS AND TENSIONS REMAIN, INCLUDING OVER THE SAFETY OF SEAFOOD. FROM SOUTHERN LOUISIANA, "NEWSHOUR" CORRESPONDENT TOM BEARDEN REPORTS.

>> WE'RE NOT SAYING DON'T OPEN THE SEASON!

>> YES, YOU ARE.

>> YOU'RE NOT LISTENING! WHAT ARE WE SAYING? OPEN THE CLEAN AREAS. LET US KNOW WHERE THEY'RE AT. AND LET US GO TO WORK. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING.

>> Reporter: EMOTIONS WERE RUNNING HIGH YESTERDAY IN A RAIN SOAKED PARKING LOT AT THE RIVERSIDE RESTAURANT IN VENICE. TWO FACTIONS OF PEOPLE IN THE SEAFOOD BUSINESS ANGRILY ARGUED WHETHER SHRIMPERS OUGHT TO GO BACK TO WORK MONDAY WHEN THE STATE IS EXPECTED TO REOPEN FISHING GROUNDS THAT WERE CLOSED AFTER THE MACONDO OIL WELL BLOWOUT.

>> I'M CONCERNED WHAT HAPPENS TO THIS INDUSTRY. HE GOES AND GETS CLEAN SHRIMP. HE GOES AND GETS DIRTY SHRIMP. HOW DO YOU KNOW WHAT THE HELL IS GOING TO HAPPEN. YOU DON'T KNOW MATT! WE DON'T KNOW!

>> Reporter: ACY COOPER IS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF THE LOUISIANA SHRIMPERS ASSOCIATION. HE SAYS THERE'S STILL OIL IN THE AREAS REOPENING, AND THAT RISKS CONTAMINATED SEAFOOD GETTING INTO THE FOOD SUPPLY. COOPER SAYS IF ANYBODY GETS SICK, THE LOUISIANA SEAFOOD INDUSTRY IS FINISHED.

>> IF WE'RE GOING TO DO IT, LET'S MAKE SURE ITS RIGHT. WE GOT ONE SHOT AT THIS. THAT'S IT. BECAUSE ONCE IT GETS OUT THERE AND SOMEBODY HAPPENS TO GETS SICK AND IN THE WHOLE COUNTRY SOMEBODY IS GOING TO GET SICK, THEN IT'S GOING TO COME BACK ON HIM AND I. THAT'S WHO IS GOING TO TAKE THE LICK FOR IT-- US.

>> Reporter: COOPER SAYS DESPITE GOVERNMENT CLAIMS THAT MOST OF THE OIL IS GONE, THERE'S PLENTY OF IT STILL ON THE BOTTOM.

>> I WENT OUT THERE AND WE MADE ABOUT FOUR OR FIVE PASSES WITH THE WHEEL, WITH THE BOAT, STIRRED UP THE MUD AND BEFORE YOU KNOW IT, OIL WAS COMING UP. SO THESE ARE THE KIND OF AREAS THAT WE NEED TO DISTINGUISH WHERE ITS AT AND THESE ARE THE PLACES WE NEED TO KEEP CLOSED, WE DON'T NEED TO OPEN THIS. KEEP THEM OUT OF THERE.

>> Reporter: BUT OTHER SHRIMPERS AND DOCK OWNERS ARE DESPERATE TO GET BACK TO WORK, CATCH SOME SHRIMP, PUT SOME MONEY IN THEIR POCKETS.

>> ALL RIGHT.

>> I WANT TO MAKE MONEY. I WANT TO SUPPORT MY FAMILY. SO WHAT ARE WE GOING TO DO. SIT HERE AND STARVE TO DEATH. THE SCIENTISTS SAY THERE'S NOTHING WRONG WITH IT.

>> ALL RIGHT. I'LL COME WITH YOU. YOU TAKE ME TO WHERE THE WORST SPOT IS. CATCH A FEW SHRIMP. I'LL HIT THEM WITH DAWN. AND I'LL BOIL AND EAT THEM RIGHT THERE IN FRONT OF YOU.

>> THAT'S YOU. BUT WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO THAT? WILL THE AMERICAN PEOPLE DO THAT? NO! THAT'S WHY YOU DON'T DO IT.

>> Reporter: RANDY PAUSINA IS ONE OF THE SCIENTISTS WHO SAYS THE FISHING GROUNDS ARE SAFE. HE'S THE ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF FISHERIES FOR LOUISIANA AND A MARINE BIOLOGIST. HOW DO YOU KNOW THEY'RE SAFE TO OPEN?

>> TESTING. TESTING. WE'VE BEEN TESTING SINCE MAY 9 AS A STATE, EVEN BEFORE THE FEDERAL PROTOCOLS WERE IN PLACE. TO DATE WE'VE DONE OVER 500 SAMPLES, WELL OVER 15,000 INDIVIDUAL ANIMALS. WE STILL CONTINUE TO DO IT. INSTEAD OF DOING IT WEEKLY NOW, WE DO IT ON A MONTHLY BASIS BECAUSE WE NOW WE ALSO HAVE THE JOINT FDA PROTOCOL IN PLACE AS WELL. SO WE HAVE TWO TESTING PROGRAMS GOING ON SIMULTANEOUSLY.

>> Reporter: PAUSINA SAYS ALL OF SAMPLES HAVE COME OUT 100% CLEAN.

>> WE'RE LOOKING FOR CONTAMINANTS THAT COULD ARISE FROM CRUDE OIL CONTAMINATION, SO IN PARTICULAR HYDROCARBONS.

>> Reporter: JOHN REUTHER IS PRESIDENT OF CENTRAL ANALYTICAL LABS IN NEW ORLEANS. THEY TEST SEAFOOD FOUND IN STATE WATERS UNDER A CONTRACT WITH TWO STATE AGENCIES. THE STATE HAS ALSO BEEN WAITING FOR U.S. FOOD AND DRUG ADMINISTRATION APPROVAL BEFORE REOPENING WATERS TO COMMERCIAL FISHING. TECHNICIANS HERE ANALYZE SEAFOOD SAMPLES, LOOKING FOR HYDROCARBONS WHICH WOULD INDICATE THE PRESENCE OF OIL. SO FAR, NO SAMPLES TAKEN BY THE STATE AND F.D.A. HAVE BEEN FOUND WITH LEVELS THAT COULD THREATEN HUMAN HEALTH. BUT THE PROCESS DOESN'T SATISFY COOPER. HE AND OTHER FISHERMEN ARE ALSO DEEPLY WORRIED ABOUT THE DISPERSANT CHEMICALS BP USED TO BREAK UP THE MASSIVE OIL SLICK. REUTHER SAYS THAT THERE IS NO CURRENTLY APPROVED TEST FOR DISPERSANTS, BUT ALSO SAYS THERE'S NO RISK TO PEOPLE WHO EAT SEAFOOD.

>> TO OUR KNOWLEDGE DISPERSANTS ARE NOT ACCUMULATED IN FISH FLESH AND WE... WE DON'T EXPECT TO FIND ANY DISPERSANTS ACCUMULATING IN THE FLESH. SO WE DON'T THINK WERE GOING TO SO WE DON'T THINK WE'RE GOING TO FIND ANYTHING BUT WE WONT KNOW UNTIL WE ACTUALLY TEST IT.

>> Reporter: BUT IT IS FAIRLY WELL ESTABLISHED SCIENTIFICALLY THAT THIS DOES NOT PERSIST IN FISH?

>> THAT'S CORRECT.

>> Reporter: BUT TEST RESULTS ARE OF LIMITED USE WHEN IT COMES TO RESTORING GULF SEAFOOD'S REPUTATION. EWELL SMITH IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF THE LOUISIANA SEAFOOD AND MARKETING BOARD. HE SAYS IT'LL TAKE A LONG TIME AND A GREAT DEAL OF MONEY TO CHANGE PUBLIC PERCEPTION. THAT'S WHY THE STATE IS ASKING BP TO FUND A NATIONAL MARKETING PROGRAM.

>> NOW, THE WELL'S CAPPED WE NEED TO START REBUILDING OUR BRAND. IT'S GOING TO TAKE US YEARS. WE'RE LOOKING AT FIVE YEARS AT LEAST TO REBUILD OUR BRAND AND WE NEED THOSE DOLLARS NOW FROM B.P. AND HOPEFULLY WE CAN GET THEM TOMORROW SO WE CAN GET TO WORK. WE'VE GOT A LOT OF WORK AHEAD OF US AND WE KNOW, WE KNOW WHAT TO

>> Reporter: WHEN THE SUPERBOWL CHAMPION NEW ORLEANS SAINTS VISITED THE WHITE HOUSE EARLIER THIS WEEK, THE SEAFOOD BOARD WAS THERE TO BUILD A 30-FOOT SHRIMP AND OYSTER PO-BOY SANDWICH FOR THE OCCASION, HOPING TO GET SOME PUBLICITY FOR THE IDEA THAT GULF SEAFOOD IS SAFE. SMITH SAYS IT'LL TAKE A LOT OF STUNTS LIKE THIS TO MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

>> BECAUSE THE BRAND IS SO IMPORTANT TO THIS STATE IT'S... YOU KNOW YOU LOOK AT FAMILIES OF SEVEN OR EIGHT GENERATIONS. WE EMPLOY THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE. OVER 30,000 JOBS ARE DIRECTLY IMPACTED BY THE SEAFOOD COMMUNITIES IN LOUISIANA. IT'S THIS HUGE ECONOMIC ENGINE TO THIS STATE.

>> Reporter: THE LARGER LONG TERM QUESTION IS WHETHER ALL OF THE VARIETIES OF FISH AND SHELLFISH IN THE GULF WILL EVER COMPLETELY RECOVER. THE SCIENTIFIC JURY'S STILL OUT ON THE LONG TERM IMPACT OF CRUDE OIL ON THE NEXT GENERATION.

>> WE HAVE NOT SEEN MASSIVE FISH KILLS AND THAT SORT OF STUFF TO DATE AND WE DON'T EXPECT THAT WE WILL. WHAT'S UNKNOWN IS IT... IT IS A FACT THAT THE DISPERSANTS IN THE OIL, SO THE MIXTURE OF THE TWO IS LETHAL TO FISH EGGS, LARVAL FISH. SO IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE'RE NOT GOING TO SEE FOR A YEAR OR TWO DOWN THE ROAD.

>> Reporter: THE STATE HAS ALSO ASKED B.P. TO FUND THE SCIENTIFIC STUDIES TO ANSWER ALL THESE QUESTIONS. SO FAR THE COMPANY HAS DECLINED TO DO SO.

>> Lehrer: NOW, THE ANALYSIS OF SHIELDS AND GERSON-- SYNDICATED COLUMNIST MARK SHIELDS AND "WASHINGTON POST" COLUMNIST MICHAEL GERSON. DAVID BROOKS IS OFF TONIGHT. MARK, THE SIGNING OF THE $600 MILLION BORDER SECURITY BILL TODAY, HOW DOES THAT FIT INTO THE POLITICS IT OF IMMIGRATION RIGHT NOW?

>> WELL, IT FITS IN THIS WAY, JIM. THAT THE ELEMENTS OF THIS ELECTION YEAR, THE TEMPERMENT OF THE VOTERS IS FEAR AND FURY WITH A LARGE OVERLAY OF PESSIMISM. AND IN THAT SORT OF ENVIRONMENT, US AGAINST THEM ARGUMENT IS VERY APPEALING TO VOTERS WHO ARE SCARED. AND I THINK THAT'S BEEN... .

>> Lehrer: SCARED ABOUT... .

>> SCARED ABOUT THEIR FUTURE, SCARED ABOUT THEIR JOB, SCARED ABOUT THEIR RETIREMENT, SCARED ABOUT THEIR KID'S FUTURE, JUST SCARED AND THE IMMIGRATION I THINK FITS RIGHT INTO THAT. AND I THINK IT'S A NECESSARY, WE HOPE HELPFUL. BUT I MEAN I THINK IT WAS A RESPONSE THAT WAS MORE POLITICAL THAN IT WAS SUBSTANTIVE.

>> Lehrer: DO YOU AGREE, MICHAEL?

>> I DO. IT DOES SHOW THAT CONGRESS CAN ACT IN A BIPARTISAN SWIFT WAY WHEN THEY ARE SCARED TO DEATH. I THINK THEY'RE TRYING TO AVOID AND KIND OF PREEMPT STATE ACTION ON SOME OF THESE ISSUES BECAUSE A LOT OF STATES ARE VERY UP SET ABOUT FEDERAL IMMIGRATION POLICY. BUT THE IMMIGRATION REFORM GROUPS THEMSELVES ARE NOT HAPPY ABOUT THIS. THIS IS NORMALLY THE SORT OF THING YOU DO AS A BARGAINING CHIP TO GET SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, IN COMPREHENSIVE REFORM. BUT THEY GAVE AWAY THE BARGAINING CLIP IN THIS CASE IN A WAY THAT I THINK DOES TO THE BODE WELL FOR THE FUTURE OF COMPREHENSIVE REFORM.

>> Lehrer: LET'S PICK UP ON WHAT MARK SAID THEN, MICHAEL, ON THIS WHOLE THING OF THE POLITICS OF TODAY AND THE POLITICAL SPIRIT AND EVERYBODY. YOU HEARD WHAT HE JUST SAID. PUT THE RESULTS OF THE PRIMARIES IN TO THIS CONTEXT.

>> WELL, YOU KNOW, I THINK WE'RE SEEING TWO THINGS ON TUESDAY NIGHT. THE FIRST ONE IS THAT WE REALLY ARE, YOU KNOW, PREFRENCH REVOLUTIONARY LEVELS OF DISCONTENT IN THE ELECTORATE.

>> PREFRENCH REVOLUTIONARY.

>> EXACTLY. YOU KNOW, AS THE MAJORITY PARTY, THE PARTY IN CONTROL, IF DEMOCRATS ARE GOING TO BE HIT BY THIS. BUT I THINK WE ALSO SAW THAT CANDIDATE QUALITY STILL MATTERS. REPUBLICANS BENEFIT FROM THE ANGER OF THE ELECTORATE BUT THEY DON'T REALLY BENEFIT FROM HAVING ANGRY, SCARY CANDIDATES THEMSELVES. I THINK THAT THIS MAYBE A SERIOUS PROBLEM IN THE SENATE WHERE AT LEAST THREE CANDIDATES ARE QUITE PROBLEMATIC, REPUBLICAN CANDIDATES IN OTHER ELECTION CYCLE WAS NOT HAVE GOTTEN THESE NOMINATIONS.

>> Lehrer: KENTUCKY, NEVADA AND... .

>> AND NOW COLORADO. AND YOU KNOW, SO I THINK THERE'S A REAL PROBLEM THERE. THE REPUBLICANS BECAUSE OF THIS, BECAUSE OF THESE CANDIDATE ISSUES COULD FALL SHORT ON THE SENATE THIS COULD PREVENT THEM FROM TAKING OVER THE SENATE.

>> Lehrer: WHAT DO YOU SEE, FROM THE ELECTION?

>> I WILL QUOTE A FRIEND WHO SAID I THINK IT IS A JETT BLUE.

>> Lehrer: DEMOCRATIC "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL" NBC POLL,.

>> I THINK IT IS A JETBLUE ELECTION. EVERYONE IS FRUSTRATED. EVERYONE IS HEADING TO THE EMERGENCY EXIT.

>> Lehrer: WHICH IS A REFERENCE TO THE JETBLUE FLIGHT ATTENDANT.

>> MELTDOWN, THAT TOOK THE EMERGENCY CHUTE DOWN. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE ELECTORATE IS. I THINK I AGREE WITH MICHAEL THAT THE REPUBLICANS WOULD BE MORE COMPETITIVE AND BETTER SHAPE IF THEY HAD NOMINATED THE ESTABLISHMENT CANDIDATES, IF YOU WOULD, TRAY GRAYSON IN KENTUCKY AND NORTON IN COLORADO IN THE CASE OF JANE NORTON IN COLORADO. AND I WOULD ADD TO THAT ROB SIMMONS IN CONNECTICUT WHO WOULD BE A FAR BETTER MATCHUP AGAINST DICK BLUMENTHAL.

>> Lehrer: AND LINDA McMAHON.

>> BUT, JIM, THIS IS QUITE UNLIKE ANY ELECTORATE I'VE EVER SEEN BEFORE. IT, IT IS NOT A SEESAW. THERE USUALLY A SEESAW. WHEN ONE PARTY IS UP, THE OTHER PARTY IS DOWN. THIS IS A CASE WHERE THE INs, THE DEMOCRATS, ARE DOWN. AND THE OUTs, THE REPUBLICANS ARE FURTHER DOWN IN PUBLIC ESTEEM. I'VE NEVER SEEN THIS BEFORE. NOW I DON'T THINK IT'S GOING TO COST THE REPUBLICANS IN THE FALL BECAUSE I THINK THE FURY IS THERE. THE INTENSITY IS, AND EXCITEMENT AND INTEREST IS ON THE REPUBLICAN SIDE. BUT PROBABLY THE ONLY ENCOURAGING SIDES OF THE DEMOCRATS IS IN THE LAST THREE MONTHS THE MARGIN, WHICH IS THE REAL QUI KEY, I THINK TO UNDERSTAND THIS ELECTION, IS WHERE IS THAT INTEREST AND ENTHUSIASM AND INTENSE AT THIS TIME. THE REPUBLICANS HAD A 21 POINT EDGE ON THAT IN JUNE. AND IT'S NOW DOWN TO 11. AND I DON'T THINK IT'S BECAUSE THE DEMOCRATS HAVE BLOSSOMED AND BLOOMD. I THINK IT'S QUITE FRANKLY BECAUSE THE REPUBLICANS JUST ARE TRYING TO RUN A TOM DOOLEY ELECTION. THEY'RE SITTING ON A LEAD AND THEY'RE REALLY NOT DOING ANYTHING OR STANDING FOR ANYTHING.

>> Lehrer: WHAT ABOUT YOUR POINT, MICHAEL, THAT SOME OF THIS ALSO HAS TO DO WITH THE CANDIDATES THAT THE REPUBLICANS HAVE FINALLY NOMINATED. DO YOU THINK THAT IS HURTING THAT I CAUSE, COULD HURT THEIR CAUSE.

>> I DO. I THINK REPUBLICANS ARE RIDING A WAVE. BUT IF YOU ARE A BAD CANDIDATE YOU CAN DROWNED IN THE WAVE, EVEN IF ARE YOU REPUBLICAN. THERE IS NO QUESTION THAT THAT IS TRUE. I THINK REPUBLICANS STILL HAVE A VERY GOOD JOB AT THE HOUSE. THE REALITY HERE IS THAT THIS IS VERY SIMILAR TO OTHER CHANGE KIND OF ELECTIONS WHERE YOU HAVE A DEMOCRATIC MAJORITY THAT LOOKS OUT OF TOUCH, ARROGANT AND THERE ARE CORRUPTION ISSUES HERE AS WELL. SO I THINK THAT REPUBLICANS ARE DOING FAIRLY WELL WITHOUT OVERARCHING MESSAGE. I DON'T THINK THEY CAN DO THAT IN 2012 IN A PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE. YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SERIES OF POLICIES AN APPROACHES. BUT RIGHT NOW BEING THE PARTY OF NO IS PAYING OFF FAIRLY WELL.

>> IT IS, JIM, I JUST ADD THIS, THAT WE'VE BEEN THROUGH TWO PREDICTED POLITICAL REALIGNMENTS. CARL ROVE THE ARCHITECT AND ENGINEER SAID WE'RE HAVING A NEW McKINLEY ERA THAT THERE WAS GOING TO BE A NEW REPUBLICAN MAJORITY. AND BARACK OBAMA WON IN 2008 AND IT WAS OBVIOUS THAT HE HAD ASSEMBLED A NEW REALIGNMENT I THINK ANYBODY WHO IS PREDICTING REALIGNMENT AT THIS POINT OUGHT TO BE LOOKING AT HIS OR HER.

>> Lehrer: AND NEITHER ONE OF ARE YOU.

>> I AM NOT.

>> BUT AMERICANS ARE VERY CONCERNED ABOUT THE ECONOMY, CONTINUALLY. TWO-THIRDS OF AMERICANS THINK WE HAVEN'T HIT BOTTOM YET IN OUR ECONOMY. 60 SOME PERCENT OF THOSE ARE VOTING FOR GOP CANDIDATES. IT'S, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE MAIN FACT IN THIS UPCOMING ELECTION. I DON'T SEE IT CHANGING BETWEEN NOW AND ELECTION DAY.

>> Lehrer: AND THAT'S REAL S IT NOT?

>> IT IS REAL, JIM.

>> Lehrer: THAT CROSS ALL PARTY LINES, ALL THEOLOGYS AND PHILOSOPHIES.

>> ABSOLUTELY. I WAS REMINDED WHEN IRAQ INVADED KUWAIT IN THE SUMMER OF 1990 AND THE ARGUMENT CAME ABOUT GOING TO WAR IN IRAQ. AND JIM BAKER, THEN THE SECRETARY OF STATE, SAID THE REASON WE ARE GOING TO WAR, IS JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, WELL, JOBS, JOBS, JOBS, 20 YEARS LATER ARE THE ANSWER. THE DEMOCRATS CAN POINT TO A LEGISLATIVE RECORD UNDER PRESIDENT OBAMA WHICH IS HISTORIC, WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH IT OR NOT. THE STIMULUS PACKAGE WHICH HAS NOW BEEN PAID BACK BY THE BANKS. THE AUTO COMPANIES ARE THRIVING. MEDICAL, NATIONAL HEALTH CARE, THE FINANCIAL REGULATION. BUT IT DOESN'T CUT ANYTHING IN THE FACE OF JOBS AND UNEMPLOYMENT. AND THAT IS REALLY THE ENORMOUS ALBATROSS AND WEIGHT THE DEMOCRATS ARE CARRYING INTO THIS ELECTION.

>> MICHAEL, WHAT DOW MAKE OF DEFENSE SECRETARY GATES REFORM PROPOSAL FOR CHANGING AND CUTTING THE FEDERAL BUDGET? I MEAN THE DEFENSE BUDGET.

>> I THINK IT MIGHT BE BEST DESCRIBED AS PREEMPTIVE BUDGETARY WARFARE. HE SEES THE CUTS COMING. HE WANTS TO CONTROL THE AGENDA OF THOSE CUTS RATHER THAN HAVE CONGRESS DO SLASHING CUTS. IN THE COURSE OF MAKES THEE A NOUNT-- ANNOUNCEMENTS HE MADE SOME IMPORTANT POINTS. BUDGETARY RESOURCES ARE GOING TO BE CONSTRICTED BUT THE THREATS ARE NOT BEING REDUCED IN AMERICA SO HOW WE DO THIS BUILD-DOWN WHICH IS COMING, HE KNOWS IT'S COMING, IS GOING TO BE QUITE IMPORTANT. HE ARGUED THAT WE'VE DONE IT VERY POORLY FOUR TIMES IN AMERICAN HISTORY WHEN HE MADE THIS ANNOUNCEMENT. HE SAID I'M TO THE GOING DO IT POORLY AND SO HE ARGUED FOR REFORMS, COST-CUTTING REFORMS, A SERIES OF COST-CUTTING REFORMS AND THEN TAKING THAT MONEY AND PUTTING IT INTO MODERNIZATION PROGRAMS THAT WILL ALLOW THE MILITARY TO DO WHAT HE THINKS IT NEED OS DO.

>> BUT TO DO THIS, MARK, HE'S GOT TO CONFRONT TWO MAJOR FORCES, THE CONGRESS AND THE DEFENSE CONTRACTORS, RIGHT?

>> THAT'S RIGHT. I THINK HE DID AN ENORMOUS SERVICE TO PRESIDENT OBAMA AND TO HIS SUCCESSOR. BECAUSE WHETHER BOB GATES SUCCESSOR IS, HE OR SHE WILL NOT HAVE THE SAME LEVEL OF BIPARTISAN CREDENTIAL OR BIPARTISAN SUPPORT. SO HE'S GOING TO --

>> .

>> Lehrer: JUST AS AN INDIVIDUAL.

>> EXACTLY SO, HE HAS TAKEN THAT OUT AND IS PREEMPTING THE CONGRESS. HE KNOWS IF YOU LEAVE IT TO THE CONGRESS IT'S GOING TO BE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT OUTCOME. HE WANTS TO MAKE A DECISION BASED UPON HIS OVERALL VIEW WHICH I THINK IS SMART. SO I THINK HE DOES THE A REAL SERVICE BY DOING THIS AND DON'T FORGET WE'RE FACING BUDGET DEFICIT COMMISSION, ERSKINE BOULLES, BY THE END OF THE YEAR AND THAT IS GOING TO PUT FURTHER PRESSURE ON CUTTING DEFENSE.

>> Lehrer: IS HE LIKELY TO GET IT DONE.

>> I THINK SO. I THINK IT'S SMART. I WISH OTHER CABINET MEMBERS BY THE WAY WOULD BE THIS FAR SIDED WHEN THEY APPROACH THINGS.

>> INSTEAD OF DEFENDING THEIR TURF THEY ARE GIVING SOME OF IT AWAY.

>> EXACTLY. BUT GIVE IT AWAY IN A PRODUCTIVE WAY. SO WHETHER HHS COULD DO THAT OR EDUCATION OR OTHERS. HE'S TRYING TO GET AHEAD OF THE WAVE, AHEAD OF THE CURVE. I THINK IT MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE. I HOPE HE SUCCEEDS IN THIS. BUT YOU KNOW, THE REALITY IS WE'RE GOING TO FACE NEXT YEAR, A COMPLETELY DIFFERENT BUDGETARY CIRCUMSTANCE. IT'S GOING TO MUCH MORE LIKE GREAT BRITAIN WHERE ALMOST EVERY DEPARTMENT OF THE GOVERNMENT IS GOING TO BE-- HAVE TO TAKE CUTS. AND YOU KNOW, THE MAN NEVER WHICH THAT IS DONE IS GOING TO MATTER GREATLY. THE DIFFERENCE ON DEFENSE THOUGH IS YOU KNOW, JUST BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY DOESN'T MEAN WE DON'T HAVE THE THREATS AND THAT WAS THE POINT HE WAS MAKING.

>> BUT WE HAVE DOUBLED THE DEFENSE BUDGET IN THE PAST TEN YEARS. I MEAN NOW WE'RE SPENDING MORE THAN THE NEXT 13 COUNTRIES IN THE WORLD ON DEFENSE. I MEAN IT ISN'T-- WE HAVE NOW MORE FOUR-STAR ADMIRALS AND GENERALS, AS MANY AS WE HAD AT THE TIME OF VIETNAM WHEN WE HAD TWICE AS MEN MEN-- MANY MEN AND WOMEN IN UNIFORM SO THIS THING, ANY TIME YOU CUT THE BRASS.

>> A LOT OF SQUEALS BUT THERE IS KIND OF A CERTAIN GLEE ON THE PART OF THOSE OF US. THOSE OF US WHO WEREN'T FOUR STARS.

>> Lehrer: WHERE DO YOU COME DOWN ON THIS THING WITH ROBERT GIBBS, THE PRESIDENT'S PRESS SECRETARY RAISES PROFESSIONAL LEFT IDEA AND HAS ALREADY GOTTEN PUSHBACK IS THAT REAL OR JUST TALK?

>> WELL, IT WAS DUMB ON-- .

>> Lehrer: ON HIS PART.

>> YES. I MEAN.

>> Lehrer: WHY?

>> FIRST OF ALL, WHEN YOU TALK ABOUT THE PROFESSIONAL LEFT, OR THE PROFESSIONAL RIGHT, YOU'RE TALKING IN TERMS, THOSE ARE PEJORATIVE TERMS.

>> Lehrer: NO KIDDING.

>> WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT ARE PEOPLE WHO EARN THEIR KEEP AND EARN THEIR LIVELIHOOD BY STIRRING UP INTENSITY IN THEIR MAILING LISTS AND CONTRIBUTIONS AND SO FORTH. BARACK OBAMA WAS NOMINATED, MAKE NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, BUT THE AMATEUR LEFT, OKAY. BECAUSE HE WON THE CAUCUSES. HILLARY CLINTON WON THE PRIMARIES, ALL RIGHT. HE WON THE CAUCUSES. AND THAT WAS, THOSE WERE THE PEOPLE WHO HAD THE PASSION AND THE INTENSITY AND WHY? BECAUSE BARACK OBAMA WAS THE ONLY DEMOCRATIC CANDIDATE WHO WAS AGAINST THE WAR. AND IT WASN'T THE PROFESSIONAL LEFT OR THE INTEREST GROUPS THAT DOMINATED BY ANY MEANS. SO IT WAS, I DON'T KNOW WHAT ROBERT GIBBS GETS OUT OF IT. HE HAS COMPLAINED THAT HE GETS IT FROM CABLE-- .

>> Lehrer: WATCHING CABLE TELEVISION.

>> JIM TONIGHT ON CABLE TELEVISION 2 MILLION AMERICANS WILL WATCH FOX NEWS. ALL RIGHT, I DON'T MEAN ANY DISRESPECT TO THEM. I POINT OUT TWO THINGS. IN THE 2004 ELECTION, FOX NEWS VIEWERS VOTED MORE STRONGLY FOR GEORGE BUSH, 94% THAN DID NRA MEMBERS, THAN DID BORN AGAIN CHRISTIANS, THAN DID REP KARNS OR CONSERVATIVES. THESE ARE PEOPLE WHO WATCH FOR AMMUNITION, NOT FOR INFORMATION. AND FOR THAT REASON, I SIMPLY SAY, YOU KNOW, ROBERT, 310 MILLION AMERICANS-- .

>> Lehrer: WE HAVE TO GIVE MICHAEL A DIME.

>> I COMPLETELY EMPATHIZE WITH GIBBS IN THE CIRCUMSTANCES. HAVING SPENT TIME IN THE WHITE HOUSE. THERE IS ALSO A PROFESSIONAL RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE NEVER PURE ENOUGH AND THEY KICK YOU WHEN ARE YOU DOWN. OKAY. SO I UNDERSTAND THE FRUSTRATION. BUT YOU DON'T GIVE VENT TO THE FRUSTRATION. THE REALITY HERE IS INTENSE SIT AN ISSUE IN THIS ELECTION. THEY NEED THEIR CORE BASE TO TURN OUT. YOU DON'T ATTACK THEM UNDER THESE CIRCUMSTANCES. AND I DO THINK THERE ARE SOME REAL TENSIONS HERE PARTICULARLY ON AFGHANISTAN AND SOME OTHER ISSUES THAT ARE LIKELY TO EMERGE.

>> Lehrer: WE HAVE TO GO. THANK YOU BOTH.

>> SURE.

>> OKAY.

>> Lehrer: FINALLY TONIGHT SOME POLITICS OF THE PAST, AND A NEW BOOK ON THE PRESIDENCY OF LYNDON JOHNSON. JUDY WOODRUFF HAS OUR CONVERSATION.

>> Woodruff: HE WAS LARGE IN STATURE, PERSONALITY AND POLITICAL AMBITION. THE CON SUMATE LEGISLATOR, A VICE PRESIDENT WHO WAS THRUST INTO THE PRESIDENCY. LYNDON BAINES JOHNSON WAS COMPLEX, OUTSIZED, CONTRADICTORY AND ULTIMATELY FASCINATING. HIS WAS THE PRESIDENCY OF CIVIL RIGHT, HEALTH REFORM, A WAR ON POVERTY. BUT MOSTLY DEFINED BY THE WAR IN VIETNAM. NOW COMES A NEW BOOK ON HIS TERM IN OFFICE, LYNDON B JOHNSON, IT'S PART OF THE TIMES BOOK SERIES ON THE AMERICAN PRESIDENCY. THE AUTHOR IS CHARLES PETERS, THE FOUNDER AND FORMER EDITOR OF THE WASHINGTON MONTHLY MAGAZINE. HE'S ALSO WORKED IN POLITICS AND GOVERNMENT. HE RAN JOHN F. KENNEDY'S WEST VIRGINIA CAMPAIGN AND HELPED TO LAUNCH THE PEACE CORPS. CHARLIE PETERS T IS SO GOOD TO YOU HAVE WITH US.

>> IT'S GREAT TO BE WITH YOU, JUDY.

>> Woodruff: ONE THING THAT COMES ACROSS HERE IS THIS OUTSIZED PERSONALITY AND HIS ABILITY TO GET WHAT HE NEEDED. WHAT HE WANTED POLITICALLY. PERSUASIVE, CA JOELED, INTIMIDATED PEOPLE. WHERE DID THAT PHENOMENON POLITICAL ABILITY COME FROM?

>> WELL, HIS FATHER WAS A POLITICIAN. HIS FATHER WAS A POPULIST POLITICIAN WHO ANTICIPATED JOHNSON, HE FOUGHT THE KLAN BACK WHEN THE KU KLUX KLAN WAS VERY, VERY POWERFUL IN TEXAS. SO HIS FATHER HAD POLITICAL COURAGE. AND HIS FATHER WAS JUST, WAS A NATURAL POLITICIAN WHO WAS ELECTED TO THE-- HE SERVED EIGHT YEARS IN THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE.

>> Woodruff: AND YOU WRITE THAT JOHNSON WAS ABLE TO ACCOMPLISH INCREDIBLE THINGS.

>> ONLY FDR RIVALS HIS LEGISLATIVE ACCOMPLISHMENT. AND SO THAT RANKS HIM WITH THE GREATEST PRESIDENTS.

>> Woodruff: CIVIL RIGHTS AND MEDICARE.

>> THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT IN 1965 HAS CHANGED THIS COUNTRY. OBAMA WOULD NOT BE PRESIDENT WITHOUT THE VOTING RIGHTS ACT OF 1965. MEDICARE CHANGED THE LIFE OF SENIORS IN THIS COUNTRY, THE COMBINATION OF SOCIAL SECURITY AND MEDICARE MADE SO MUCH DIFFERENCE FOR THE OLD AGE OF AMERICANS.

>> Woodruff: YOU ALSO WRITE, CHARLIE PETERS, ABOUT HIS WEAKNESSES. THE STRING OF EXTRAMARITAL AFFAIRS. THE ABUSIVE BEHAVIOR, YOU WRITE ABOUT TOWARD HIS SUBORDINATES.

>> IT WAS A TOUCHING THING ABOUT THE AFFAIRS IS THAT THE WOMEN INVOLVED ALL OF THEM RETAINED GREAT FONDNESS FOR JOHNSON. AND OF COURSE HIS WIFE LADY BIRD SEEMED AS FAR AS ANYBODY COULD SEE TRULY ADORED HIM. SO THAT WAS THE GOOD SIDE. THE BAD SIDE WAS EXCEPT FOR ONE OF THESE AFFAIRS, HE WOULD BOAST ABOUT THE RELATIONSHIPS TO OTHER PEOPLE WHICH TO ME WAS JUST HORRIBLE THING TO DO. HE WAS, HE WOULD MAKE AIDES GO INTO THE BATHROOM WITH HIM, THAT DIDN'T SEEM VERY CHARMING TO ME. AND HE COULD SAY CRUEL THINGS TO PEOPLE AND NOT JUST IN FRONT OF OTHER PEOPLE, BE ABUSIVE. I WAS TROUBLED BY THIS SO MUCH I CALLED UP HIS OLD FRIEND LIZ CARPENTER. AND I SAID LIZ, THIS IS FINALLY THE THING THAT I JUST CAN'T ANSWER. AND SHE SAID HE IS JUST THAT WAY. YOU HAVE TO ACCEPT HIM WARTS AND ALL.

>> Woodruff: AND THERE WAS THIS PERSISTENT RIVALRY WITH THE KENNEDYS. WAS THAT HIS DOING OR THEIRS?

>> BOTH SIDES WERE AT FAULT. I THINK BOTH PARTICULARLY LYNDON AND BOBBY SAW THE WORST SIDE OF EACH OTHER. AND THEY WERE PERFECTLY RIGHT ABOUT THE WORST SIDE OF EACH OTHER. JOHNSON SAW BOBBY AS THE GUY WHO TRIED TO GET CASTRO ASSASSINATED. HE SAW THE UNPLEASANT SIDE OF BOBBY'S PERSONALITY. AND SO JOHNSON UNDERSTOOD ALL OF THAT. HE NEVER UNDERSTOOD THE THINGS THAT BY THE END OF BOBBY'S LIFE MADE HIM A GREAT MAN. SIMILARLY, BOBBY UNDERSTOOD ALL THE DEAL-MAKING, VULGAR SIDE OF LYNDON JOHNSON AND HE DIDN'T HAVE ANY UNDERSTANDING OR SYMPATHY WITH THE GREAT SIDE AND THE GREAT THINGS THE MAN WAS CAPABLE OF DOING. AND THE WORST THING THAT KENNEDY SAID THOUGH TO JOHNSON WAS THEY HID BOBBY'S VISIT TO THE GESTURE THAT ENDED THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS. SO JOHNSON FELT AND THE AMERICAN PUBLIC THOUGHT THAT THE LESSON OF THE CUBAN MISSILE CRISIS WAS WE WERE EYE BALL TO EYEBALL AND WE MADE THE OTHER GUY BLINK WHEN THE TRUTH WAS BOTH IDENTIFY-- SIDES BLINKED.

>> Woodruff: YOU SAY HE BELONGED PROBABLY IN WHAT YOU SAY AS THE SECOND-TIER OF GREAT PRESIDENTS. AND THAT WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT WAS RECOGNIZED WHEN HE WAS ALIVE.

>> NO, I THINK HE BELONGS WITH JACKSON, TEDDY ROOSEVELT, JEFFERSON, RIGHT BELOW THE TOP WASHINGTON.

>> Woodruff: DESPITE VIETNAM.

>> YES. BUT VIETNAM, IT'S HARD TO SAY DESPITE VIETNAM. YOU KNOW, SOMEONE USED THAT LINE WITH JOHN KEVIN GALBRAITH AND THAT'S LIKE SAYING SWITZERLAND WOULD BE FLAT WITHOUT THE ALPS. SO.

>> Woodruff: BUT VIETNAM WAS WHAT --

>> VIETNAM WAS HIS PRESIDENCY AND IT WAS, HE WAS WRONG. HE WAS JUST WRONG. HE WAS A MAN WHO WORRIED TERRIBLY ABOUT HIS MANHOOD, ABOUT BEING COURAGEOUS. ONE OF HIS AIREDES TOLD ME THAT-- AIDES TOLD ME THAT THE-- THE AIDE WAS LEAVING AND HE WANTED A NICE WARM LETTER FROM JOHNSON WHEN HE LEFT THE WHITE HOUSE. AND SKEED JOHNSON'S SECRETARY HOW AM I GOING TO GET THE NICE LETTER. AND SHE SAID WHEN YOU SEND IN YOUR RESIGNATION LETTER PRAISE HIS COURAGE. THE GUY SENT IN THE LETTER AND HE GOT A VERY WARM LETTER IN RESPONSE.

>> Woodruff: FINALLY CHARLIE PETERS, ANY LESSONS FROM LYNDON JOHNSON FOR THIS CURRENT PRESIDENT, PRESIDENT OBAMA AND THE ENORMOUS CHALLENGES HE IS FACING?

>> WELL, I THINK WITH AFGHANISTAN YOU HAVE TO LOOK AT VIETNAM AND SAY THERE WERE MANY, MANY ARGUMENTS FOR BEING IN VIETNAM, FOR STAYING IN VIETNAM THAT THE ANTI-WAR MOVEMENT, FOR INSTANCE, DIDN'T WANT TO FACE AND HAS NEVER WANTED TO FACE IN HISTORY, THE HISTORY OF THE WAR. JUST AS THERE ARE MANY, MANY GOOD ARGUMENTS FOR BEING IN AFGHANISTAN TODAY, VERY COMPELLING ARGUMENTS. BUT THE POINT I HOPE OBAMA PAYS ATTENTION TO WAS WHAT DESTROYED THE CHANCE OF SUCCESS IN VIETNAM WAS A CORRUPT GOVERNMENT THAT WAS, DID NOT HAVE THE FAITH OF THE PEOPLE ALL DOWN THE LINE FROM THE LOWEST LEVEL TO THE TOP. I AM AFRAID WE'RE GOING TO FACE A SIMILAR SITUATION IN AFGHANISTAN. THE OVER THING I WOULD URGE OBAMA TO PAY ATTENTION TO AND JOHNSON'S HISTORY WAS, AND THIS WAS TRUE OF JACK KENNEDY AN MANY OTHER DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTS BUT IT'S WHAT GOT JOHNSON IN TROUBLE IN VIETNAM, IT'S FEAR OF REPUBLICAN CRITICISM. WHEN THE EPISODE HAPPENED, JOHNSON, HIS FIRST INSTINCT WAS JUST TO DISMISS IT AS SELF-VIETNAMESE PROVOCATION SO HE WASN'T GOING TO MAKE ANYTHING OUT OF IT. BUT THEN AN INFLUENCE ADVISOR SAID TO HIM WELL BARRY GOLD WATTER WHO WAS RUNNING AGAINST HIM THAT YEAR, BARRY GOLDWATER IS GOING TO SAY YOU LACK COURAGE, YOU LACK GUTS. YOU'VE GOT TO APPEAR TOUGH SO THEN JOHNSON MADE A BIG THING OUT OF THE TONKIN GULF, WENT TO CONGRESS, GOT THE RESOLUTION AND WE WERE OFF ON THE WRONG, WRONG ROAD.

>> Woodruff: TOO WORRIED ABOUT WHAT THE OTHER --

>> WHAT THE OTHER PARTY WOULD SAY.

>> Woodruff: CHARLES PETER IS THE AUTHOR. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR TALKING WITH US.

>> I'VE ENJOYED IT, JUDY, THANK YOU.

>> Lehrer: AGAIN, THE MAJOR DEVELOPMENTS OF THE DAY: PRESIDENT OBAMA SIGNED A BILL PROVIDING ANOTHER $600 MILLION FOR BORDER SECURITY. ON THE "NEWSHOUR", THE SECRETARY OF HOMELAND SECURITY, JANET NAPOLITANO, SAID BORDER SECURITY IS ONLY PART OF THE ANSWER. SHE URGED LEADERS FROM BOTH PARTIES TO BACK COMPREHENSIVE IMMIGRATION REFORM. THE "NEWSHOUR" IS ALWAYS ONLINE. HARI SREENIVASAN, IN OUR NEWSROOM, PREVIEWS WHAT'S THERE. HARI?

>> Sreenivasan: ON "THE RUNDOWN" NEWS BLOG, TOM BEARDEN WRITES ABOUT THE UNEXPECTED BATTLE LINES IN THE DEBATE OVER REOPENING FISHING GROUNDS IN THE GULF AND POLITICAL EDITOR DAVID PLUS ON "ART BEAT," WATCH A PREVIEW OF JEFF'S CONVERSATION WITH MUSICIAN ROSANNE CASH, WHOSE NEW MEMOIR WAS RELEASED THIS WEEK, PLUS CASH PERFORMS ONE OF HER MOST FAMOUS SONGS. ALL THAT AND MORE IS ON OUR WEB SITE, newshour.pbs.org. JEFF?

>> Brown: AND THAT'S THE "NEWSHOUR" FOR TONIGHT. ON MONDAY, WE'LL GET THE LATEST ON THE FLOOD DISASTER IN PAKISTAN. I'M JEFFREY BROWN.

>> Lehrer: AND I'M JIM LEHRER. "WASHINGTON WEEK" CAN BE SEEN LATER THIS EVENING ON MOST PBS STATIONS. WE'LL SEE YOU ON-LINE AND AGAIN HERE MONDAY EVENING. HAVE A NICE WEEKEND. THANK YOU AND GOOD NIGHT. MAJOR FUNDING FOR THE PBS NEWSHOUR HAS BEEN PROVIDED BY: AND WITH THE ONGOING SUPPORT OF THESE INSTITUTIONS AND FOUNDATIONS. AND... THIS PROGRAM WAS MADE POSSIBLE BY THE CORPORATION FOR PUBLIC BROADCASTING. AND BY CONTRIBUTIONS TO YOUR PBS STATION FROM VIEWERS LIKE YOU. THANK YOU. Captioning sponsored by MacNEIL/LEHRER PRODUCTIONS Captioned by Media Access Group at WGBH access.wgbh.org