The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; the battle to Integrate the Suburbs

funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exelon corporation allied chemical corporation and the corporation for public broadcasting this week anything from chicago twenty five years ago today in the famous brown versus board of education decision the supreme court outlawed racially segregated education in the momentous quarter century that followed the lives of american blacks have been greatly changed federal laws and court decisions have achieved progress in integrating education public accommodation and employment but not much in housing oh no fair housing became

federal law in nineteen sixty eight it has not been backed by strong federal enforcement job of opening wide suburbs to blacks isn't left the local anti discrimination ordinances and voluntary efforts does the pressure for middle class blacks for decent housing increase some suburban communities of not only accepted lots of having done actively to promote racial integration some of their methods are now being attacked not only by real estate interest but by black organizations tonight the battle to integrate the suburbs nowhere is this more fiercely fought even in the chicago metropolitan area where there are two hundred and fifty two municipalities about one fifth of them have open housing statutes but five of them also have highly controversial programs to as they say manage immigration these communities light of the south and west of chicago nearest the black sections of the city they created and aggression management they say to combat the alleged efforts to real estate dealers to steer

black families into these towns and steer white families away one of these suburbs belo would soon to local real estate agents the real estate industry challenge the woods right to sue but last month the supreme court ruled that darwin was within its rights some see that decision as the housing equivalent of brown versus board of education the court said that if the steering allegations were true the townspeople would be denied this social advantages of living in an integrated community that decision is not the end of the story the narrative that another chicago suburb that is actively promoting integration the man in charge of that policy of donald i'm marco assistant village manager for community relations <unk> first of all what is managed integration first let me say that the terms used in our area is maintenance we're trying to promote integration and maintain it

and before we can deal with maintenance of integration we have to define what integration is and we have to fight integration and that situation in the housing market where white black and other people are all competing and racially representative numbers where housing not only within our petite in this apology but within the relevant housing market why is it necessary actively to work to maintain your as a victory others say manage re integration why is it necessary because we have a dual housing market which has been promoted by the real estate industry and abetted by government especially including the federal government the juarez which law provide some rights but they have not provided remedies for the process sees the divide people in the housing market by race one has not only to prohibit that which is unlawful but go after that which is permissible undesirable what do you believe the real estate industry have to market back in nineteen seventeen here in chicago area and this was mirrored

throughout the nation there were efforts by the real estate industry too he'll teach walk slowly with a single race as the decades past they were very successful in creating ghetto neighborhoods and by that i don't necessarily mean slums but they don't they were words like a racially isolated neighborhoods in nineteen sixty eight they were still writing fair housing law writes in the last ten twelve years they have maintained what they had done before while giving lip service to open house and it is necessary to come up with a countervailing force so as to promote a new carrier single racially common housing market or what do they actually do do believe in a community like yours that affect yours and what would be the consequences of the sled and then there were none in the market forces corporate they do or don't do a couple of things one is is a tendency to promote majority group housing traffic and demand in other

communities white urged to consider other options that means years that that means deer racially skewed at some awful racial spirit they also all will steer black people other minorities into communities that have a reputation for being open and providing some sort of a hospitable community like the other thing that they do is they fail to act affirmatively to bring about a countervailing force to the decades of what's during has done to people's minds people what does that mean that obviously ordinarily turn people by by race and just to themselves they tend to foreclose options they can not even to be aware of certain housing options they cross off certain communities or neighborhoods and unless people make an aggressive outreach to make people aware oh the nonracial traditional option one just seized the housing market persist in a

dual housing market mojo that then what do you do to maintain as you say the level of integration you think appropriate in your community we kind of work was probably within a community health care program so as to encourage real estate brokers and other housing marketers to promote the non traditional option with in park forest outside of this means encouraging people to reach out to a majority group people and show them options were a majority group people are under represented in the traffic will encourage real estate people other housing marketers to reach out to minority who people blacks and other non whites and encourage them to consider options where there is a deficiency of minority traffic and demand not they're closing the traditional options and your language sounds were diplomatic about may and summer's richest thing in another worrying about who fits right you know you have a certain

number of blacks in your community minorities now about ten percent i believe something that you don't want it to go with an in rush of blacks al black so that's again segregated so you would like some blacks in my blood to move your community to go into other communities were they haven't thought of that and someone still continue coming years is that going to prove that that's in the ballpark what is a little bit on the concern is we're not dealing with aig spear point where a tipping point or anything of that sort there is not a magical number where there's an appropriate balance of the court no and we don't even have a target of the specific population doubts were saying that given a truly free market with no discrimination all whatever balance would be achieved that's what we want but we can not have the kind of advance unless there's an aggressive outreach so that people would have a wider black have seen and consider all the options and for any other thing that we do is is we have lawsuits and other kinds of things that might be a stick

approach our work and work on that education management or maintenance programs what are crusts of them strongly opposed by some real estate dealers and by their trade group the national association of realtors which happens to be based in chicago william north is the mar as general counsel and chief spokesman odd mr elder marco and others have claimed that their activities are necessary because the suburbs remain integrated in part through the efforts of your industry the real estate industry like to say where we disagree completely this is not to say that there is not some steering that exists about the resources a wide variety of governmental agencies are available and our exercise to prevent steering and enforcement actions to stop steering

have been extensive and innumerable so what we view as mr demarco program is nothing more or less than an effort to establish quarters and while it may be true that mr demarco does not have a quarter in his community right at the present time not too many months ago they did have an ordinance which related efforts to a metropolitan statistical analysis of the words that enough was enough in their community enough minorities in their community of prison and we don't believe the equal opportunity in quota systems are consistent on the other who knows thomas reading his the community relations director in the town i referred to area bill would put it less diplomatically than mr demarco he said we wouldn't need integration meant no sir management if the real estate dealers brokers

would get off our backs know why would he be learned to say something like that if your industry were not steering or other was distorting the market process it can always say that it seems that park forest and though within certain of these communities say that they are open another sided they are open enough and hands full other community should take a proportion of the minority real estate brokers essentially serve the demands of those people who come to them seeking housing and that has been the objective of a national association through its member board in state associations bratton in every way possible the alternatives which people have to find properties that they can afford an expanded outreach the multiple listing services we have provided a wide variety of informational

resources for minorities and majorities for that matter who are seeking properties to purchase and it simply seems to be a situation where having reached seven percent were twenty one percent so they've said this is where we want we are now fully integrated and anybody else who constitute a minority can go elsewhere and look for their property somewhere else you've charged in public before now that their motive is to keep the minorities are less by scattering i think that was why would you believe that well there seems to be a strange strange sudden concerned and just as you see a certain level of political activity and political power within the community of rockets you see efforts and concerns with so called re segregation again i come back to the basic promise that we view

is corporate into the fair housing law and that is that housing should be made available on equal terms and that means that you can live if that's the way you like with your fellow black her fellow irish shell hole or a fellow catholic or a fellow jew or you can live isolated from the others of similar orientation they become and also that the difference between skokie ill end of the warsaw ghetto was not the percentage of view the fact that all had to be in the works and you say that your industry has done a lot to reach out to a few years ago your organization negotiated and signed with the h u d day on a program for voluntary a

marketing arrangement but i understand that only a small number of four of the twenty nine real estate gem groupings investors worldwide don't know the precise number of boards that have signed that i know that nationwide we have upwards of three hundred and fifty thousand real estate brokers and sales persons who are committed i have done so voluntarily because we had been in paris serious conflict in this particular area precisely because of the pressures that have been poured on the spy these community leaders who have not been satisfied but with the affirmative marketing agreement and in fact have suggested that real estate brokers are under an obligation to carry on activities which would be inconsistent with the affirmative marketing agreement we're very concerned about

such things as lists of preferred brokers those people to whom the city is referring customers on the basis of a commitment of those preferred brokers who are my words spear minority members into other communities and because these communities believe that they've gotten there they estimate finds blocks divided as well as whites more manly strongly supports activist integration efforts in the suburbs is herman matthews he is the director of the south suburban housing center to refuse to give up her organization what is your impression of the activities of the real estate industry in this regard will estate industry kept the claim to be uniformly hearing minority of people that work problem than an issue like this is we get focused narrowly avoid over there are people who

are interested in they do in fact fear people no i don't imagine that there's a conspiracy and they're doing this to keep certain school districts non minority were from areas from becoming a non minority i go say the practice tears we haven't research we have evidence that the fed has and we would like to see that kind of responsibility claimed by mr north taken by the real estate industry itself at a dallas police itself does bring it's because of patience on the part of members of the professional standards and that they are committed to the implementation of the laws we don't have a blanket condemnation of the real estate in the fiesta but we do know and have evidence people and there have been cases will fall that growth that there is during going on why should a number of realtors and that has an ad with the normal with what is the purpose in your group about a semi group is to realize the intent of the

federal fair housing law and that is to create a stable integrated housing parent throughout the united states but in this case i think the two of the seven seven we do that by opening up the option of using the affirmative marketing agreements on body in a r and the other agreement over time we heard from martin we go into an area you're an inquiry from a client that was a client on the availability of the range of options available to him in the fight how thing that he's looking for in the southern suburbs and we built as actively because we feel that if a person comes to a housing center looking for having information he shouldn't i be able to leave that center with information on a large portion of the area just looking for if a black family still living in the city comes to you and wants to move out to the suburbs to discourage them from moving into areas that are they have a certain proportion of like some kind of move whether to places where there are only a few these marriage might be too

we advise and provide them with information that shows that they have larger options many options that they brought to us if they happen to go to a specific of when they want to go to a different place revise them that given the kind of car you may have approved a market that they have options and it was in that those options are there for them to take advantage of all of the final talks is left up to a particular object would you agree that in effect you're steering them with getting them to better empower option for that kind of money or investing in house and if you say to me that a black person who wants to buy a fifty thousand dollars house has to buy the house and that i would take one big problem with that he has the right to buy a fifty thousand dollars house wherever he can find one that satisfies him how to that extent the us doing if you do not have a quota how do you decide when there are

lax in paris suburb like the word or are our cars well unfortunately a given the kind of case law through a web cast that on one hand you have people denying any statistical profile of the early october twenty one twenty fifteen why people in this area are so we've we are in one sense the statistical model is closed down to us and you know you have people who are complaining about the counties would want to remain integrated for having a future four percent minority group and i think that one of the things that you do is to implement the law and put that the tribe through the very vivid and let the cases to what the quarter will be quite naturally went into decline because encore this year well right now what we think you i see a community with white one percent minority people the houses are capable of being maintained by working class lives i consider that movie either close and it perceives itself closer perceived as both on

minority people have their fifty thousand or houses newly i would tell black person go and buy a house they protect three black women they filed a complaint with the federal department of housing and urban development against mr matthew center one of them is one that essentially a longtime resident of park artist and co chairman of the housing committee of the naacp is some chicago chapter social what's wrong with the program run by mr matthews record of it i would not like to comment on what is wrong with with the matthews program i would like to have to make some comments on this developing emerging situation we have that event happening on an american film who played captain who have managed to do all the kinds of things that we as black people have thrived along to move where we want to move if we have nine i mean if we're talking about black people who have private

dictation from lebanon and certainly should have the intelligence to speak out how you can a very thing that we're finding objectionable that our village of making power on the base the great i haven't given him and have to fit in with the people thought about maintaining them that if the family i'm ready are there how open housing and community when he came here is not that readily of open house and with the love you all know the thing with the community except unlike what is their intended to protect communities unfortunately unfortunately very big black eye now being planned and unflappable

our community that i'm sharing with the bill would you read a bit of it but all of the spending to film on the basis that the influx of the nineteen people will drop in property that now turned that around different thing though people are a part of the fact it ended up being a confident that benefit platform for the film but very difficult to have to our game on air and i see that were worth is how are your reaction to want to be the integration managers or maintain years sate is their motive which is to stop communities like them the word or park forest from going all black and white they become in effect segregated gender

thing that finally i mean i haven't been firefights in nineteen fifty three that killing fifteen years now why we're finding in firefights would've been black family you know in your book you do not follow some of you wouldn't mind what you don't know it you would not want me to say that i can't live next to her that the night that there's something wrong with that right now and we go into the numbers being black a community powwow are those are benefiting from other communities high at length of them those are going i've never really been that episode called for the people on these communities thought ah if they feel that

that too many black person into my house if you check the census data most communities now have liked praise than in finland thinking in terms of nineteen seventy six that population who now have through <unk> what your answers and you are an integration maintain or what is your answer to was some sort of like the pulse and also the reason she just outlined let me preface my answer by correcting two things really are you talking with your said realtors are being credited with making integration within the imported beef is maintaining segregation the other thing was that mr north said there was an ordinance in park forest i think he was referring to park or so was mistaken for direct assistance to the question of housing market immigration is

not an issue for minority when people on exhibition which affects majority of people as well as minority people minority group people have made decisions in park forest along with majority of people saying that they favor immigration the housing market they have many one race adoptions people could live in a plethora of one race communities all black or all white the relatively few communities which over not only the fifteen years that mr simpson has led our fourth but all the twenty years of park forest health promoting integration in its maintenance are few communities that have been integrated and have been stable and have seen the value of property appreciate at astronomical levels because we not only have strong demand from jordan people we have strong demand for american people and the housing supply isn't the larger that

a higher proportion than it is through subjecting to the supreme court and the property values of ball in concert dollar terms if there is a law in the maine and worked the housing stock as long as we have good solid the man from all races of people on a hundred percent of people of all races looking for housing area we're going to be in good shape what can happen is in this tradition has happened in some other communities that are not integrated racially transitional as black people and other non whites begin to move in the night the main and drops off either because white population is reflected by the real estate community or because of a lack of successful examples people avoid a very good option for an otherwise very good option but americans are and speaking of the martyrs in chicago how is the nation going to solve this problem is going to be solved by just

tinkering with that at the local level as you are or is it going to be going to need some new policies i think they should go away american should stay away from cultivating about issues that involve i'm very sorry and has been told that we have to where we have to end there and sort of have to interrupt think in this instance than a marker for joining us that's all the time we have for tonight we will be back tomorrow night i'm robert macneil from chicago good night speaking greek send one dollar to the macneil lehrer report fox three four five new york new york one oh oh one nine the macneil lehrer report was produced by

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