The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Teng Hsiao-ping

(Carter and Teng at signing ceremony.)

ROBERT MacNEIL: The leaders of the world`s most powerful and world`s most populous nations, President Carter and China`s Teng Hsiao-p`ing, wind up their Washington talks, signing agreements to turn in a limited way the rhetoric about normalizing relations into practical cooperation.

Good evening. China`s Vice Premier, Teng Hsiao-p`ing, ended his historic visit to Washington today by signing agreements with President Carter which both of them called only a beginning to future cooperation. They covered the opening of consulates, exchange of students, and scientific and technical cooperation, under which, among other things, the U.S. will build a communications satellite for China. Earlier Mr. Teng toured the National Space Museum, marveled at the tiny size of Lindbergh`s Spirit of St. Louis, and laid a wreath at the feet of Abraham Lincoln at the Lincoln Memorial.

Afterward he talked with four network correspondents, including Jim Lehrer. We shall be seeing that interview in its entirety, but first the remarks at the signing ceremony in the East Room of the White House.

PRESIDENT CARTER: Mr. Vice Premier, American and Chinese friends. What we have accomplished in the last three days is truly exceptional, but our aim is to matte this kind of exchange between our countries no longer the exception but the norm, no longer a matter of headlines and historians but a routine part of the everyday lives of both the Chinese and the American people. After too many eras in which one or the other of our nations has sought to dominate the relations between us, China and the United States of America are now meeting on a basis of equality, with full diplomatic relations., We`ve charted a new and irreversible course toward a firmer, more constructive and a more hopeful relationship. We have agreed to consult regularly on matters of common global interest. The security concerns of the United States do not coincide completely, of course, with those of China, nor does China share our responsibilities; but a strong and secure China which contributes constructively to world affairs is in our interest, and a globally engaged, confident and strong America is obviously in China`s interest.

VICE PREMIER TENG HSIAO-PING: We anticipated that following the normalization of relations there would be a rapid development of friendly cooperation between our two countries in many broad fields. The agreements we have just signed are the first fruits of our endeavors. There are many more areas of bilateral cooperation and many more channels waiting for us to develop. We have to continue our efforts. And I look forward to meeting with Mr. President and Mrs. Carter in the near future in China. (Applause.)

MacNEIL: The American people have seen a lot of Teng Hsiao-p`-ing this week and will see more as he visits Atlanta, Houston and Seattle. But they`re unlikely to get any more intimate or revealing feel for the man himself and his cast of mind than came out of the interview recorded this afternoon at Blair House in Washington. For that reason we`ve decided to run the interview complete, only editing out, for time, the Chinese translations of the questions put to Mr. Teng by the four correspondents. They were Walter Cronkite of CBS, David Brinkley of NBC, Frank Reynolds of ABC, and Jim Lehrer for PBS.

One note by way of glossary: there`s frequent use by the Chinese of the word "hegemony." Our dictionary defines that as the "preponder ant influence," as. of one nation over others. To the Chinese it means simply: the Soviet menace.

WALTER CRONKITE, CBS News: In your interview last week with Hedley Donovan of Time magazine, you suggested a pact between Japan, the Unite States and China to curtail Soviet hegemony, or aggression, as it`s also called. Have you formally presented that proposal to the United States leadership, and if so, what was the reaction?

TENG: I did not raise such a proposal. I just said that we must deal in a down-to-earth way with the Soviet hegemony ... that in order to oppose hegemony and to safeguard world peace, security and stability, the United States, Europe, Japan, China and other third world countries should unite and earnestly deal with this challenge of a danger of war. We do not need any kind of a pact or an alliance. What we need is a common understanding of the situation and common efforts.

CRONKITE: Mr. Vice Premier, in your statements made here-- your public statements -- and frequently to visitors in Peking, as well as your predecessors have made statements indicating that you do not feel that the United States understands the real nature of the Soviet threat. I wonder why it is you feel that you have a better understanding of that threat than the United States leadership has.

TENG: That`s an American problem. That`s not for me to answer.. But we do hope that the United States will adopt more effective measures, more strong measures, to deal with the challenges posed by hegemony.

JIM LEHRER, PBS: Mr. Vice Premier, does China plan to go to war over the Cambodia situation with Vietnam, which is backed by the Soviet Union?

TENG: Many people have asked me that question. I can tell you all that what we Chinese people say counts. Any action taken by the Chinese is through careful consideration. We will not take any rash action. Whether it be global hegemony or local hegemony, China always adopts a firm position, a firm attitude. I can at the same time tell you that in addition to attacking Cambodia with great numbers of armed forces in a flagrant way, the Vietnamese are also creating a great number of boundary incidents along the Sino-Vietnamese border, and such border incidents are still further developing.

LEHRER: I take it, then, that the answer is yes, China is prepared to go to war over the Cambodia issue.

TENG: Our position of supporting Cambodia is firm and unshakable. But as to what measures we will adopt, as to how we shall deal with this problem, we are still studying it. And a question like that is not something to be decided by us alone.

FRANK REYNOLDS, ABC News: Mr. Vice Premier, great changes have taken place in China in the last few years. You yourself, sir, have reached a venerable age; you have been deprived twice of authority very suddenly. What assurances does the United States have that you will remain in authority and that your policies of modernization will endure, this new outward look toward the West, cooperation with the West?

TENG: On the guarantee for the continuance of a correct policy, it`s not decided by the factor of a single individual. The crucial thing is whether the policy is correct or not, whether it is approved of by the people, whether it is supported by the people, whether it is good for the people. If the policies are correct, good for the people, and supported by the people, then that is the fundamental guarantee for the continuation of the policy.

REYNOLDS: If I may say so, sir, though, there are those who help to assure whether the people approve the policies. And are there not people in the leadership of China right now who perhaps have reservations about diluting the purity of Chinese society by Western influence, Western industrialization?

TENG: I can tell you clearly that on this point not only the central leadership but also our local leadership and the people throughout the country are unanimous on this policy. Within our leadership there are older people, like I myself am an older person, and there are middle-aged persons and younger persons. And since the policies we`re carrying out are correct, since the principles, policies and measures we`re adopting are correct, I can say for a matter of certainty that they will continue.

DAVID BRINKLEY, NBC News: Mr. Vice Premier, you were saying last week that the United States had been in strategic retreat since the early `70s. Could you explain to us your thinking on that -- your reason for saying that?

TENG: I did not mean strategic retreat but that for quite some time now the Soviet Union is on the offensive, whereas the United States is on the defensive. And proceeding from such an assessment it has been our contention all along that the only two countries capable of launching a world war are the United States and the Soviet Union. Now, because of the changes in position, the main hotbed of war now is the Soviet Union.

BRINKLEY: In view of your previous answer about China, the U.S., Japan and Western Europe coordinating their policies toward Russia, how might the Russians react if they feel they are being surrounded and ganged up on?

TENG: They will not be able to disregard the opposition of the people of the whole world. It has always been my contention that in order to deter hegemony, to restrain hegemony, what we need is not this or that treaty or this or that resolution but solid, down-to-earth, united action ... even though at the same time I also consider that it is necessary to engage in negotiations, to sign this or that agreement, to conclude, to pass this or that resolution. But we cannot depend upon such things. We cannot seek for our security in such things.

CRONKITE: Let`s take a specific case in point, if we might, and see how that sort of an arrangement of unification against Soviet hegemony might work.

Can I assume that you, Mr. Vice Premier, are concerned about the situation in Iran possibly resulting in benefit to the Soviet Union?

TENG: Like other countries of the world, we are concerned about the situation in Iran. The strategic, position of Iran is extremely important. As for China, we can only morally express our points of view. We cannot do very much because of lack of ability there. And I believe that those countries who are in a position to do more should adopt a very serious attitude towards the question of Iran and adopt more effective measures to bring about a solution of the problem there.

CRONKITE: Well, under the assumption that the United States is deeply concerned about Iran and you are deeply concerned about Iran, under your proposal of being united in preventing Soviet hegemony, then, would you not propose that we do something together to try to prevent Soviet aggression in Iran?

TENG: But I just said in this particular field our ability to do something is very, very small. In fact, it might be said that we are not able to do anything. If we are able to exert even a little strength there, we will certainly do so.

LEHRER: Mr. Vice Premier, your remarks about the Soviet Union since you have been in this country have been interpreted as an attempt by you to undercut President Carter`s position on SALT-II. Was that your intention?

TENG: That was not my intention. I have just said that whether it be negotiations with the Soviet Union or to sign this or that agreement with the Soviet Union it`s not something which we`re opposed to. In fact, we might even say that some of it is necessary. We are just saying that we cannot place our hopes on such agreements, that such agreements cannot play too much of a restraining role on the Soviet Union.

LEHRER: A columnist this morning asked the question as to whether or not you, Mr. Vice Premier, would be willing to have President Carter come to China and criticize China`s policy toward the Soviet Union.

TENG: If his criticisms are correct, we welcome it. And what is more, we have not criticized American policy here. And what I have been saying here is not anything new; it has been said by Chinese leaders over the past many years.

REYNOLDS: Mr. Vice Premier, if the people of Taiwan, the people and the government of Taiwan, refuse to voluntarily reunite with you and the United States continues to supply defensive weapons to the people of Taiwan even after the expiration of the mutual defense treaty, what alternative do you have for reunification except force?

TENG: We will try our very best by peaceful means to bring about the return of Taiwan to the mainland and to complete our reunification.

REYNOLDS: Is there any doubt in the Vice Premier`s mind that if he should abandon peaceful means he would be resisted by the United States with force?

TENG: No. The question is, if we are to commit ourselves to not using armed force at all, then that will be equivalent to tying up our own hands, and the result then would be to have the Taiwan authorities absolutely refuse to negotiate with us for a peaceful reunification. And that could only then in the end lead to an armed solution of the problem.

BRINKLEY: Mr. Vice Premier, aside from friendship and goodwill, what did you most hope to accomplish on this trip to the U.S.?

TEND: Through this visit, and principally because of the normalization of relations between China and the United States, we look forward to broad prospects to the development of political, economic, scientific and technological, cultural and any other fields in the development of such relations between us.

BRINKLEY: Do you believe you can maintain the traditional Chinese culture while importing all of this technology from the West?

TENG: It is a matter of certainty we will maintain our traditional culture.

CRONKITE: Mr. Vice Premier, we`re going to learn very shortly of the agreements you have made here -you`re going to sign some protocols at the White House. What have you disagreed about in your discussions with President Carter?

TENG: Our method is for each side to express his own views without trying to impose one`s views on the other. And it`s precisely because of that that our talks have been very cordial.

CRONKITE: Could you say just what the principal dangers are to this continued euphoric honeymoon period between our two nations?

TENG:I see no danger. The honeymoon will continue.

(Laughter.)

LEHRER: But this interview will not, Mr. Vice Premier. Our time is up. For all of us, thank you very much.

TENG: I thank you.

MacNEIL: After the interview Jim Lehrer said Teng told them he had been very frightened of them; he wasn`t used, he said, to doing such things. Tomorrow he`s off to Atlanta and points west. That`s all for tonight. I`m Robert MacNeil. Good night.