The MacNeil/Lehrer Report; Wetlands

or an league funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grants from exelon corporation allied chemical cooperation and the corporation for public broadcasting this week

good evening robert macneil is often i there's a fight in progress toward what to do with the wetlands a shorthand term force while some of the lands around the country that have water on the argument has two parts and the role to make sure the wetlands been left relatively untouched for environmental and ecological reasons or should there be opened up or commercial another developer and second that decision made by the federal government or the lack of the state the house and senate have already come down on opposite sides of the question the senate with a fresh from the carter administration opting for a provision in the clean water act of nineteen seventy seven that we continue current federal control the house voting to turn most of the decision making back to the states house committee held hearings today on the senate's version of a prelude to what promises to be a part of their own conference committee later this fall we want to examine this wetland controversy tonight and broad terms and in the specific ones affecting the state of louisiana before

we go to the arguments with first make sure we all know and acres of wetlands in the country every state of the union has been the most expensive are found in florida on the lower mississippi river the lowland areas of the atlantic and gulf coasts and in the marshlands of upper wisconsin and minnesota a wetland as anything that is where or water completely saturated the land swaps marshes bulbs firm in shallow ponds included the most famous or where fresh water and salt water come together and acts like the chesapeake bay near washington on the atlantic coast the mississippi delta gault in the san francisco bay on the pacific ecologist plane they all play an essential role making the meeting of land and water really were acting as a kind of giant filtration system by water pollution divides

absorbing impurities in a natural way because chemicals found in polluted water provide nutrients for what land plants which in turn throw out new oxygen in the water these plants at ecologists also actors and stopping the flow of water so essential and flood control the environmentalists argue the wetlands places a home for birds ducks and many other animals depend on the unique wetland system for their food and other things that keep them alive and well the biggest and most remarkable natural resource of the wetlands is fish like the slight taken out of the bill back

on the ground another kind of those particularly valuable as the non edible banana he called build these by those attacks and always always used in everything from planning another song animal food and lipstick the heart of the controversy of course commandos to the wetlands critically in areas like louisiana with demands from the oil and gas drilling a really began on dry land but his move through the years to the wetlands and finally now primarily off show welcomes singing they made some mistakes and they're really drilling in a wetland areas company representatives they argue that their main use

of us interest in the wetlands is centered on dredging plans for pipelines to reopen the offshore wealth back to the mainland rivers environmentalist charts the dredging up and changes the water flows on the wire mother clams oysters also developers along the coastal states such as finger is a land become housing developments throughout the waterways other fingers and pieces of shoreline are created by dredging and failing they become the construction sites for single family homes condominiums airport offices in the land at a premium in general and prime waterfront property it even more of a premium developers say it's a

necessary and productive waited till they argue that without reading them using wetlands that just wouldn't be enough land to be economically developed such heavy wetlands states of florida and louisiana or are the question for me in industry and state governments say it's unnecessary they can take your there are environmentalists and those on their sides say the record does not support that contention that the wetlands of america such as these in louisiana are rapidly decrease that already nearly one half of the wetlands found in the united states are beyond florida has lost one quarter arkansas one happy there's just in the last twenty years and in california nearly all of that is will this basic environmental

positions supported by the carter administration in his environmental message last may president carter said the piecemeal alteration and destruction of wetlands the draining dredging filling another means a sudden outburst can lithium impact in quote he wants the federal government to play a strong role in stopping thousand mourners the president's chief spokesman on the issue he's chairman of the president's council on environmental quality or why do when the president walked in the room and cry well first because we believe that the problems as national conventions which the border with the us recognize which was rather amazing during the nineteen fifties it was estimated that the nation's inventory of weapons or partially hundred and twenty million aid here's they are present estimates indicate that the inventory has dropped to seventy million acres are a loss of thirty percent over a twenty five year

period the lungs serve as your opening presented a valuable resource to the tv to the united states for sure in terms of maintaining the physical chemical and biological integrity of our nation's water system but also as habitat for commercial fish are spawning fish wildlife lot of bell storm storage and other functions which constitutes a national resources and to permit and amid a national problem that the cuteness a certain that a national standard be imposed for their preservation wasserman or complete protection that they're maxing preservation and this to be accomplished according to the administration's position in conjunction with state not exclusive of state what do you think would be effective the states were given

complete control the federal government got out and there's the federal government has been in the fallen out of wetland protection reasons like incentive to encourage especially for the water pollution control act and was recognized that perry and that the condition of the nation's waters were was rapidly degrading an order too restore and maintain the quality of the water the ocean that man's activities were introducing into the water cycle have in the control of their source and one of the principal sources was the bloating and feeling of the nation's wetlands and it was with that in mind that the so they soak for a permit system was established by the court and the pressure the corps of engineers which does not mean that all activities involving weapons were to be one way that the corps of engineers would review a proposed activities activity in order to see through that environmental regulations

it is if your position is that the administration's position that any kind of major development on the wetlands along dredging training and so on to be a negative and destructive thing is this the kind of thing i wanna stop no that is not our position our position is that any proposal which it has an impact on weapons be reviewed by the corps of engineers and the environmental protection agency to see to it that the national interests are preserved in the project are it might be revealing of the sport that it's sheer week under the act there've been about eight thousand permit applications for activities involving weapons but less than two percent of those projects and those projects have been rejected outright so is it mr feith it the way congress find as we know it will have a particular affect in louisiana were mathematicians remaining

wetlands are and really alone public station wnyc's the woman says to get some reaction from land or fake aegean coastal marshes and wetlands uk occupy approximately ten million acres of louisiana control for much of the state plan that wetland policy belongs we've entered a couple of wildlife and fisheries don't allow phantom on his assistant secretary for marine and coastal resources of that department doctors panama has been studying the wi fi and a wetlands and to get his master's thesis on the wi fi and oysters in the nineteen thirties doctors and i'm all would like to know can a state like the week he handed control its own plan i think i think wetland their funds they stayed in the dynamic an ecosystem which vary greatly the army a way to balance the system has to have them on and innovation and complete

understand what one more they have the state has been involved in wetland management for more than twenty years and you give the example of the things that a fish is a louisiana know about the wetlands here that the federal government might not be aware of an employee we can play i don't think we have any objection for all forces tremendous asset and certainly every type of action should be permitted on an exam and i think that any all of them well i think the problem is that we need more people and more money in the system where they were the problem and i think it until you understand the dynamics of the system you're not likely to be a limited amount of movie keep the production at the highest

level i don't know and ej the looting for example of music scenes where mafia that they think i'm not taking it away from the web now honor your goal with the kitchen living with information controlling are coming into the system from a country probably more control should be a quarter million people so you say we're not losing that lands

development or to the oil and gas industry as they drill for more oil that we're losing something else so that means we have allen's at me and i didn't want to skate well and we have one vote in the state senate for all for action and we have a millionaire or more people living here i think terry it in the man in some of the people you meet here at a narco related additional one well they did make a press can to meet all crime while i think that one day the review system and states that are in a position to make the determination to make it a benefit to that even with respect the way i don't think it's that to a few displays of you or i will go on your ecological considerations there are economic and social factors to the wetlands

controversy in louisiana good mineral spoils the kind home should be built on a limited and urban settlements have already consumed most of these areas the airport in recent years development has extended rapidly into reclaimed wetland area it's just crabs is a civil engineer and surveyor and his divine plan for housing subdivisions and other reclamation projects in the wetlands around orleans <unk> crabs would like to discuss what are some of the economic and social effects of federal regulations on the wetlands around new orleans well i think before we consider the economic effect that we should have a little local perspective to the job a lot the national bike to get the city of nuala developed over its history and what would not be classified of wetlands you applied to the city and seventeen twenty one that began land about the same rules that you have very most probably would not have gotten more than three thousand feet off the rubble before you ran into a primitive situation the studio that we're

presently broadcasting from is built on wetlands on reclaimed wetlands so if you removed from our economy be rep coleman reclamation of wetlands then you'll will impact the economy by reducing him on a plan available that's important because the remaining land to be pried apart making unavailable one of the flotilla back hallway come back of the poor and the disadvantage of a klan higher make low cost housing unavailable for you are there and in finding the port the anesthetics are you can make available out in the outlying area of in the job market we're already beginning to feel like that gives them a feather were not really losing wetlands we're gaining and in wetlands and losing maybe something else along russia's but as a developer aren't you looking into the wetlands as a further extension for new housing for people in the parishes with a key marginal atlanta liked to you talking and as they leave town of some seven million to ten million acres of wetlands but the stadium wall in the

occupied golan from hundred and seventy nine thousand i guess you'll be taking wetland very lovely if the magnitude of the landfill point out and development in the urban area in all of the relatively small one of the problems that the developer you find in developing these martians one area well for many many years probably the foundation of their problems when in the utility but the technology curve to cope with that and i think the local government a fair leak able to prove that building codes regulate and the fish are there are there any high land areas left in new orleans that you can turn to before you go into the wetland areas very little within the city and well it on nineteen seventy two the urban why at the urban institute for urban studies institute university knew all underestimated for instance a jump ball thousand acres of prime develop will land in the chain at the same time they estimated that by the year

nineteen eighty five you would require twenty one thousand at the landfill or are you both very much mr warren now the senate says that it's not fair to say that the states have no importance of the way lungs oh i think the statement is in the heavens it and we said at the beginning and that is over the past twenty five years we've lost forty percent of the nation's wetland and snap a loss which effects just the states that affects the nation in fact the nation's water supply and water does not generations of jurisdiction it's not on wednesday watersheds water supply systems the hierarchical cycle affects the entire geographical regions in a system which does not lend itself to regulation by one state arrested jason state may not be a concern in louisiana last eighteen downstream mississippi river are exposed to the toxic substances that accumulate in the bottom of the river

should do the first one space to recognize that as the victim of a looming consequence is up straight further to suggest that the year that the that the league the administration and the senate bill proposes non involvement by states as israel a departure from the true the administration position and i which is supported by the senate bill is that there must be a partnership of national and state interest and to the extent that the national interest can be protected by the states if they want to bury the regulatory process to accommodate themselves to a particular state need they can have permission to do so they can leak into the extent they're capable of forcing the national interest and as well as recognising the specific local hunters use fiction will be seated to the state under the administration proposal sorenson of the conflict will be a key operative process developed contrast that with the house bill for example in it and it literally removed from any

regulatory process overall ninety percent of all the river miles of the waters of the united states in eighty five percent of all the weapons to be completely unregulated neither by the federal government will buy any state government analysis indicates that they're only six states presently which have any and chevy ad at the effect of processed to a degree viable approach to what humans protection for and even among those six is very sketchy it to truly limited degree they have my point out that the year and they have recently enacted a coastal zone management which was not found to be sufficient compliance and the federal court is whether we've been assured her assurances had been given the report says it will be maybe assess talk about the louisiana says that now functions to protect the wetlands in their state and it continues to function and yes regalado other permits and not on my

instrument it for far more at stake because working with a federal system was written with the system the only way that out an opportunity to examine the complex of those rules as i did not untangling this discussion to try to determine which ones are the bill should be passed down here to discuss the question well what now it's not being in the we can continue the play that we are in the philippines about we have the opportunity value on the main object to is the fact that the optimal a huge win for the comments at the spanish we know we were the epa and

i continued they had not been enough autonomy really on a family with a dynamic in and he'll object project which will actually an attempt to restore systems back to the original wetland time they don't even realize that historically it change the law mr grover me ask you from your vantage point on the developments development standpoint you find that the federal regulations on the federal regulators are making it impossible for you to carry out what would need to be done in your panic well it's possible next impossible to follow the liberation of age into the month review it but i'm involved in approval of the constant that point all those same areas that of art hello you overland said a statement provided by

final grandpa out with pt two percent less for us and that we then can laugh trying to get a permit for the fugitive and the thought that found a lot then some of the other agency or impossible much more political the war of the one chance to respond to that because they're nervous and one made the same point that the federal guidelines and get locked in a concrete there's no flexibility and now we just heard from the developers from the crabs and ears on this way the process itself is one rich and genders flexibility there is no runs out there is no richard verrier the first off the new regulations provide that that that the project application that if there is a but there's no practical alternative and the environmental consequences of the project rigs are examined

and and the consequences are attacks attempted to be mitigated if there is a practical alternative which does not result in a national resources as a weapon then the applicant is encouraged to put his proposed project song you're welcome we've got ninety four percent of all the land the united states is up under violent we're talking about six percent of the land regions of the united states who lived about a place on that small portion given the integral part the rangers play helen walmsley they say higher ministration position which is only in the senate bill and mortgages pointed out is that this is a necessary thing that the federal control for ecological and environmental reasons it each one of you feel about the the environment and your car versus the

need for further development or the use of water lands days you'd walk the news that this animal well i think again being in management contact i'm in the bit of a living fishing which this bail on all the bill proposes to do i would submit that the fish are potentially an eye rolling at one point two billion pounds of commercial fish and emma morley federal statistics on their own production of certain species indicate that we didn't know they created say through the production of shrimp says nineteen thirty nine a solid knowledge that meant that we had unlocked ms madeleine of thought where we've had some changes i think many changes on natural and geological in a few weak unless you walk through thank you

i'd ever come on ireland is promoting will be looking at what the american indian does not like about the way the federal government treats them and jim weill it's b we can now he'll their report last three four five you're york one oh oh one on the macneil lehrer report was produced by wnet and w eta they are

solely responsible for its content funding for this program has been provided by the station and other public television stations and by grant excellent cooperation allied chemical corporation and the corporation for public broadcasting speaking greek you're on tour or a nice move move

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