Dumas Malone

Today. With your latest you know I didn't know until I got here exactly what the subject of your well thought out was to be the door was secure though it didn't really make a difference I could speak in the general direction of the subject I had to hear said Go Lay low. Pleasure to be connected somewhat to my surprise. With one of your projects. And in connection with that I've been trying to think what think through the question of what was really most significant in. Jefferson City. You know as I do as an aquatic going to give a subject I suppose I say Jeffersonian as of

today. Rather than Jeffersonian democracy but it doesn't really make very much difference. There's one thing that I will to make absolutely clear I do not want to present. Mr. Jefferson to you as the papers say of the Democratic Party and I am sure he will hear his first remark to you would not be a show to vote the Democratic ticket in the next election. Now don't misunderstand I do not say that he would say vote the Republican ticket. Indeed it is entirely possible Mr. Jefferson would be under supposed to vote for anybody who has been suggested onto this stuff. Yeah. I think it quite unfortunate. Mr. Jackson's birthday is celebrated as a podcast.

I very much prefer the life you know occasion like George Washington's even if you didn't have a holiday in the connectivity of all days. But you can't take a Jackson as big primary a Democrat and what do you think of liquor to be primarily. But. They're both great Americans. Oh well people do all the work and I'm quite sure that neither one of them if he were here would want to do anything to contribute to the partisanship about time which in my humble opinion there is entirely too much. You. Know what if I had been able to carry out my original intent they precise problem of what to say very much simplified. My first idea was to stop but more of a cello pick up Mr. Jackson and bring him with me.

I thought perhaps that plane could make a landing on the back lawn of Marcelo put to death. Good book but I can do it most if they do then we go in and wake him up. He's been sleeping about a hundred and twenty five years after I'm out speaking. And writing down here and give him this rare rare rare experience of a trip in an airplane and in attendance on a meeting or radio broadcast. It would be a very unusual experience for Mr D. He would be surprised to find that he could get from articulate to this point and. About as many hours as just taking days to go from Monticello to Philadelphia to Congress when he was secretary of state or vice pres. But the weather was quite bad on us. Do their planes were very greatly diffracted and my own plane quite upset after kicking

around for five hours in a Boston Airport a pilot got you up to find I missed two connections and then it leg got on another plane which I sat up all night and it ended up. So I get through this. No time to stop Mr. Japson it is 80 Sipek couldn't take it. He would be here now 208 years old even though I am I said creosote younger sort of doubted if I could take and I was quite sure that my representation of him would be poor awful things as the weather did to us yesterday but I'm sure they did video too so we will open the book to get it. Now. I just have to try to be a representative and to try to pick out what I think is most part because there is a vast lot to this jets that are

just so it isn't. Perpetrated at least four thousand would bet on myself and I hope your fly low is bad here long enough to finally end up with a midget. Because the trailer not. So much who got to think about it. The Report of Proceedings on my coffee case well over two million words. That itself that one episode in the history of the country and if it was a Basque law to it you have to do a lot like now are why do you think it's quite important to make clear. And that is that you can't find it in Jeff's name for a program for today. That's asking too much. HITCHENS That's asking too much

of the fact you can't go to Jefferson's first inaugural ought to Washington's farewell address off to Lincoln surprised a lot of that might up and find a program for that. It puts your ticket because I don't necessarily match that. But as a matter of fact people do. Washings bad when addressing the Raiders said of the United States as no one could determine the foreign policy of today on that wonderful doctor. But that farewell address suggested her stronger were beloved of 150 years ago. And a great deal has changed in that. You can get a program of the past. Now you can get a very great deal by going back and living through their problems with those men. That is one of the reasons we study history

and it isn't the only one but it's one of the important and we have to hope that with the students there today started the problems past. As family as it is possible to start Let there be something left in there in the way of chlamydia which will enable them to think through problems of their own day back. But. I don't care to be reported to this effect but I sometimes wish that some of the present hard research of the government could be in some of our history classes. I think they would pick up not only a good deal of information which they say look like. I'm not talking about it at the tick of the pocket of the government that's a general statement and I find it a little conspicuous lack of facts

but you can't get a program out of the past. It's asking too much. Jefferson of Safir summed this up in a very wonderful quotation which you may not be provided. I'm going to try to get it weighted off programs back to the very first. This is it. There is always to be lifted generation. It doesn't belong to the past the past he said have a right to. Their day and the dead hand of the past isn't supposed to guide the present and there is I was and I was just a responsibility and we've got to wait it out the way they were last week. Now if I had the time. I like very much just speak to you of Jackie. And she's an extraordinarily

versatile America. He is perhaps the most versatile historic figure we have. The only possible exception that I can think of is Benjamin Franklin. I don't need to remind you that that's one reason of a very great. Revival very great contemporary history looming and sucking it into interest almost every. BUSH You know that in our own way drafted state papers but he drafted white as a house. Not only share public opinion with the tempered sister to talk about attempts to do it you know you say you kept a record of it throughout his life. You'll be very much interested in what's been written about lately. The fact that the climate has

changed he would like to change because it's been the direction of making more yet more moderate and he low call whether. He invented the pot and in a number of gadgets that people can see it to march on. Not only did he write beautiful English but he was familiar with French Italian and Spanish not to speak of Greek unlike a. Most extraordinary man. Did everything to do that and for that reason he's just never doff always if but it's not on that ground that I want to speak about it. Let's just as a set and symbolism in this and I'm sure you have heard of C in the word monolithic. Applied to the society and thinking you have it took talent Terry state's.

Monolithic system monolithic model. Now the term monolithic is not one that are commonly used. And. I find it sad a bit look at DOT So I looked it up in the big dictionary I have in my study which is more often used by members of fanfic. Crossword puzzles and monolithic cost means one stone that means all of the piece means a sameness about it. So all the same mind to make society a definite part of it everybody thinks the same way. But what have we got to oppose to that. I'm not I'm so out of mana let. Different from that but a model is just the same. With a terrible sameness about it. Some people seem to think that would be desirable but as a matter of fact that is not what our society heads. What do we have to

offer to this monolithic society this monolithic conception. We have. And extremely heterogeneous population. Homogeneous population would make things a lot simpler by the head Regina's population makes them a lot richer. We've got a great diversity of activity incredible diversity. Anybody. If indeed one person knew and I'm sure nobody does about all of it walking is a shit hole all this aside is all they business. So all of the schemes for the Advancement of one thing or another that they in the United States he would be absolutely overwhelmed. You get the impression of an extraordinary proliferation of interest in every conceivable direction. Well so all are against this monolithic system this monolithic way of

thinking. We have to offer diversity. How much dough is he poor Europe unity in fundamental ways. But in other things past diversity and what better symbol of that than Jackson with is extraordinary diversity of it. A man who not only thought that people would differ out in a great variety of ways particularly unhappy but who thought that that was desired. But that's just thrown out by the way that you may be thinking about it. But it the most important thing what I really want to talk about most and this is along the lines we are trying to work out in this program though I'm not saying the same thing. I don't know what we're going to say the program yet.

I get the impression that most of the things I suggested finally turned out not to be so good. Well what we've been trying to do is to find those ideas which we were God is distinctively. How much of that to run all through our history. That also associated with Jackson there. He did. I don't mean that he originated that not many people originate I did just that a very few creative thinkers in history and perfect enough whom we have in public office managed public office don't have to be created. So that's not the idea.

There are some of them sees things that are in the air and express them better than anybody else. Symbolize the bottom. I'm one of those persons was Jackson. Now there are some things that are very distinctive in American ism which cannot be passed symbolized by the Japs. What do you suppose people in other countries would regard as the most distinctive thing about the United States today. What would be the first thing they'd think Oh well I have maybe a difference of opinion on that point I suppose. But I would guess they would think of our national power. I think they would think of us as being the richest country the country that could get things done. We certainly think that I will say I was better than anybody else could have been produced more than anybody

else. Sum it all out. The country's got to greatest power greatest national power whether we are ready to realize it or not we're getting ready to do that in a military way. Now I'm not saying this in any slighting way. It's a great comfort to me as it is to all of you to think about how great Paul. It's a very great opportunity. I'm not sure that the thought of it makes us more popular with other people in the world who are well you may make some of them for us. Zoned out of a lot of NBA power is not and exactly and Barry thing. But I'm glad we got it done. Look if I were taught well you can identify that particularly with Jefferson.

They are here a lot to do with enlarging the characters of United States. He was enormously interested in mechanical processes of all sorts with Yankee ingenuity he would be fascinated by modern mechanical developed limbs. He's not unconnected with this but he's not the person that symbolizes it best if you want to get up early some Bowl the best one is out example how to Jepson scrape rough. Here he is the man that first got the conception of National Park and of the nation who played a large part in the world because of its tremendous material military strength and if Jeff see it had his way we probably wouldn't be as powerful as we all know

he was. Her much more reluctant to see industry develop where more interest for the country to remain a cultural We probably wouldn't have industrialized anything like so fast. Now we might have been happier I don't know that he thought we were. We might've been but he was sure. But we want to build a strong I've said enough so. Sometimes people say you've got to be the house on you know a Jeffersonian but George Washington didn't think that we had to get it is government. He thought the system of things to get out of each one of the best year to up what I say you know unnecessary conflict but when the when you think about Jesse and his connection with the things that are most distinctively American you think about I dare say mostly

he which we've talked about before people talked about the power of the United States of course but never has been a time when people have you thought of this is potentially ever my mighty nation. I've always thought that. But there was not a great talk of the United States is the most powerful nation in the world of course left the First World War. We would go out of sort of a sluggard among the nations who came to exercise you know us try to destroy you know wait around we just didn't do it. And when they talk about the United States in earlier days they were much more likely thinking of certain ideas certain things that we signified Jepson that expression that was best thought Lincoln was the last best hope were very similar to what were they thinking they were taking over a

material they didn't thought that was what they were thinking they were thinking of something you know American lives in that was distinctive. He had head that others didn't have it didn't have anything like the same degree. Now out with a whole lot of these things you can't talk about very many of them and I I thought I'd try to pick out one which ramify did a great many directions which perhaps is the most central one in what we call Jeffersonian wisdom. And that's the idea of the three individuals. We might talk about individual then we talk about the word free. So you see it's already developed into two ideas in place so you know if I asked about it Oh doesn't he know I want more talk about

grammar you need a better way to visualize what you mean by that. Well as Jefferson hears the Times matter of fact he did say that very often but this idea as he used it it it's been their characters to be used in the United States throughout our history. It mant that human considerations were the thing off the greatest part. To expect to stay politically man is not made for the state but the state is made from it. Man is not made for government. Government is made for man which is the exact opposite of a totalitarian idea. Incidentally I meant to say earlier what I have said and predicted three times over may have seeded one of the interesting things about all this is that you find in these ideas as expressed by Jefferson just about the best antithesis that

exists in the work to totalitarianism. It's almost perfect country. So that's one reason it's so interesting. That's one reason for the tremendous increase in the popularity of Jefferson on top you find it in the exact opposite of totalitarianism all along. Love when I hear you got it in him this question of. The state in the end of it their individual is no mere cog in the governmental machine he's the purpose of it all is for him. That's why he had. That's it I traced it back. Now not only is this true of a government but true of all the exchanges. Yeah the church disco. Business the engine prop man is not made for these things that made for here and now that the doctrine is is not one which very many Americans are going to

object to. If you suggest that they do where they love to say they're far back they couldn't say anything else of you know the part explaining the history it's been it's written into every chapter of our national history. There never was a time in this country when people thought that man was made. We got the never did but when I heard a call this came over here they might have been very loyal to their king as a matter of fact they were but they never thought they were here so they deserve a cage. They thought that this colonial enterprise they wanted to get something out of it do and that was the most mot difference between English colonial system from which we have words that go in a system established by all the other cars. The latter was more provision for the calmest of sailors getting something out they always expected to have it there when the

time came. They concluded that the well occasion was run and there's entirely too much on business that it broke loose and you got it right straight through out history all taught that's always been preparing America not. So I wouldn't have a fare as that individual ism wouldn't be agreed to by the American people of the present time. I'd be very much more afraid to take the bread to Dr because the Dr and their main way of doing it is by narrowing. All this is made by individual human beings but what individual you will be where your first answer is for me. I mean my wife and my sons on this one and then you all you very few people that know how good our particular group of people like us.

I was always been that struggle in American history. I'll say it's been a terribly acute struggle it hasn't. Let's talk about radio the new something of the old oh sightless when tired to the newcomers were. Sometimes people who wanted to draw a line on religious groups. And said do that then they decide to draw the line 0 0 0 0. That's one of the sayings before white people are not new. Now they're difficult is that we could talk about forever but they way I would have been boiled in this day in perfect aware of the problem led me the most up to domestic problem we have bio off now that I could be compared with you. But the point here that is purposely offers is that the glory of individualism is its universal application.

If you're narrow it down to a particular group it loses all its glory. It's just selfishness inside for. An individual ism and savages are not synonymous terms. Individual doesn't doesn't mean you have the privilege of acting like a spoilt child. And there are plenty of spoilt children in our society who think that this is for that land but nobody yet. Now there's another thing that goes right along without me and that is that if you define it and how he individually doesn't is an insufficient philosophy to people. They're great many things we are called on to do and do all the time in our relations with other people that can't be reconciled. That sort of individualism we quote agents say it's a sweet and beautiful thing to die for one's country. But why die for one's country if they get sick if the government is all for you. Why give your life for your country a

career and yet Americans have been giving their lives that could be altered all through. We do we just thought applied with aid to such Marinus. We know there's a lot a concept that after all an individual does not attain his fullest individualized until he loses himself in a cause greater than he sad. That's Christianity of course and as Bill put it Christianity has got me. And incidentally speaking of Mrs. Jepps this great apostle of individuate his life was lost in the cause greater than himself. All of us. Is it debated as it was never savage. Me but by and large I think the idea of individualism can be sold very effectively to the American people. We've got some great difficulties in application but there's a great sense of fair play

and there on the whole why I think the idea can be very effectively put across. I'm not so sure about freedom in here. Now of course if you talk about freedom everybody say for that to all hold up your hands too in favor of freedom all hands go up. It's just like democracy. Everybody's watching everybody defines that sort of stuff. There are great many different varieties of freedom. Some people put some a lot plus some people oppose the sabs a lot of paper. I thought it might be interesting to you if I take to US trade give it a lot of importance as they were in the minds of deaths related to pay and see if it said how that compares to the auto loan day. But you may be a little surprised but I think if Jeff who is putting them in they often point to put religious freedom first.

Some people thought it was a very religious man. Well I won't have time to go into that except that it was not it's not a very good policy in dealing with him really more than it is with politicians about day to form your opinion or from what is political then it is sad. But I don't have time to go into that but suffice it to say that when he was talking about religion he meant that you know spirit we're one big.