Debate 1988, President, Democrat; Iowa Brown-Black Coalition; Bruce Babbitt, Michael Dukakis, Richard Gephardt, Rev. Jesse Jackson, and Paul Simon participated.

Elections third much security front line states made the threats of weaponry to the fam themselves to stop our progress destabilization tactics. And fourthly it Development Plan so Zimbabwe and Zambia can trade all of the Mozambique and up the gold through South Africa. Thank you reject this stance in your next question. Governor to Dukakis in examining welfare reform. Always popular at election time. A popular issues considered include work fare programs job training programs and daycare. The federal government and some businesses are offering days daycare services to their employees. The Federal Tax Reform Act allows some corporations to provide an important day care benefit to their employees which effectively serves to reduce taxable income. Unfortunately many studies demonstrate that these services and programs where in effect actually impact on are of primary benefit to the middle class employee and not to the low income employee or to the welfare recipient who desperately

wants to work but cannot without the benefit or because of the lack of daycare services. What legislation would you propose to provide daycare services to the individuals that are most in need. The welfare reform recipients and the low income American. Well some of us I think most of us have been working on welfare reform now for a lot more than just this election season and the 50 governors of this country Republicans by the way as well as Democrats have now proposed a plan of the Congress and the House of Representatives have already passed it. It's now in the Senate which will finally give us a welfare system in this country that makes as its first priority helping people to lift themselves out of poverty to get good jobs earn good incomes and support themselves and their kids. I'm proud to say that it's based on the success of states like mine and others in the case of my own state. Over 40000 welfare families have been helped to

move from welfare to work. In the past four years four and a half years alone. And we've done it with three basic things real training for real jobs for those welfare mothers principally and some fathers day care for their children which is absolutely essential. We don't provide childcare and forget about helping these families to lift themselves out of poverty and extended health benefits so we don't cut these welfare families off of Medicaid for months after we leave welfare which is what we do in this country and I will tell you it's working. Paul talked about the underclass folks. I can tell you from my own experience that there are hundreds and hundreds of thousands of families out there who want work who want the dignity of work and can be helped with this program for reasons I don't understand the White House opposes. I don't get that this is a bipartisan effort. Thank you helping our hundreds of thousands of families lift themselves out of poverty and it works. Thank you in words Senator Simon. First the assumption of your question is absolutely valid. What we are ending up with is child care.

In some cases for middle income people even there we need more encouragement through tax laws and and in other ways. But we have to lift people through education through minimum wage. And then I mentioned before preschool education programs that ought to be tied in with the whole child care thing. I am for federal assistance on child care but I am not for it. If it is simply custodial and safe. That's nice. I want it also enriching So we really can help young people and their future and we can do it. There's no question about it. The question is whether we whether we care enough. And I want to government that cares enough it's willing to lead. Thank you Senator Simon. You see we've built a system in this country in which way too many examples exist of benefits that ironically are going in the wrong

direction. My family gets a day care assistance tax credit. Women coming off welfare in many areas get no support at all. We subsidize the purchase of second homes of mansions on sea shores. In a society where the homeless are lined in the streets of cities in the doorways of jewelry stores and we have to be honest about refocusing benefits and targeting them on the basis of need. Now in the case of daycare I believe we should go much further than any of the people here have suggested. I would advocate a daycare voucher system scaled to income needs testing which says to every working parent. Here's a piece of paper and you can take it to provide support and nurture for your child to a basement co-op to a proprietary daycare center to a church or wherever to make a simple statement.

Thank you get we're giving you incentives to work and we're beginning the education of your child. Thank you Governor. Reverend Jackson. Monopoly bought you crease welfare for the many Cargill ConAgra our beef GI GM their monopolist create wealth by drying up jobs because they control production distribution and politicians through the PAC process place and the number one export from Taiwan is not Taiwan as G which owns all over CA which owns NBC says by America while they close down plants here take our jobs to Taiwan cheap labor. Sell it back here and high and high profits. But when they do when they did 3 they made 6 billion dollars. Paid zero taxes got 182 million dollar tax rebate while on unemployment compensation had to pay taxes France that is not flat. We are subsidizing the rich will pauperize the poor the poor do not need motivation to work and then they get

paid for the work they do to clean out some of his bathroom and not get paid the rich would have to be motivated to do whatever they they just need to get paid for the work that they do. Thank you for having facts. Congressman Gephardt yesterday in Des Moines I talked to some single mothers who some of whom were on welfare and some of whom have been trying to get off and they said that under the present system it's better to stay on welfare than to get off because you can make more money the way the system works today. We've been trying to change that. They also said that even if that were changed if you didn't have a continuation of Medicaid and you didn't have a way to care for your children with the Federal our state our private subsidized program then again they couldn't get off welfare we got to decide whether we're serious about people getting off welfare. If we really are then we have to put in place the kind of things that will allow them to be able to do that.

That's what the welfare reform effort we've been talking about is. And if we're serious in the years ahead will make it more than just a speech and rhetoric will put some real programs behind that and daycare which has to be done by both federal state and private levels is a very important part of getting that done. Thank you Congressman Gephardt. Let's move now to panelist Dr. Lee on some of this. Senator Simon we have addressed a number of selected issues and concerns related to black and Hispanic Americans. At this moment would you identify and rank in order of most to least importance. The top five priorities regarding your national leadership for ethnic minorities. One is we talked about jobs play early

decent jobs. Number two education. And that's preschool. It means elementary and secondary. So we don't have like a dropout rate in Louisiana today forty six point eight percent dropout rate New York City schools 61 percent for Hispanics 57 percent for blacks. We have to enrich the quality of education. Education clearly has to be a major part of of where we go and what we do. Third. I want to see that my government is really representative. I was the first white subcommittee chairman in the house outside of the African subcommittee never appoint a black subcommittee and director. I hate to tell you I'm the third united state senator in the history of the United States Senate to have a black subcommittee director there.

I want that government really to be represented. And then in other issues the most fundamental thing is that we have a government that cares and that means housing. We clear. That's clearly a major need. But it is it goes beyond that to recreation. It's a it's a number of things but fundamental of very clear across as most fundamental is a government that cares and leads. Thank you very much for allowing candidates and panelists 30 seconds for a question. One man a former sponsor now of the governor about. Employment Education health care civil rights affirmative action and housing. But you see it's all window shopping. We can sit up here all night and lay out these priorities. But until we have the courage to deal with that deficit it's a cruel hoax. Because as we sit here and dream tonight the Reagan administration is using that

deficit not only to frustrate the dreams but to destroy the programs that are already out there in our silence on that deficit guarantees that all of this will never come to reality and therefore when I say jobs health care education housing affirmative action I beg of you please ask each one of us how are you going to pay for. You have the courage to name the programs that you will cut so we can take care of the people who really need the help and ask each one of us to have the courage to deal with that deficit by talking on Asli about raising taxes so that we can have programs for people that need them. Thank you because otherwise it's all just walkin down Fifth Avenue would have been Jack the natural way. Reverend Jackson responsible. Bruce Babbitt often talks about courage and honesty. The biggest thing that these candidates could do and the list of five to help the black the

brown and poor would be the support Jesse Jackson for president. That's the. First step. In that direction. So. Rocket number one support Jesse Jackson for president. Number two vote the enforcement. Because if if the blind can the poor and the women who've been denied the right to vote how the political power they can help them sail and not just be helped by someone else. Thirdly it jobs the alternative to welfare and the span the key the separate spec for the education. We must think our way out and be a part of the creative process. That's why we can't not just play basketball for a state novel we must also be able to coach and become deans and lastly housing if birds can survive nest of other birds and became about hives human Mansome about houses. Well human beings Thank you Reverend Jackson.

No more to you Congressman Gephardt. We obviously would all agree on housing and education and jobs there obviously the agenda that has to be fulfilled. I think affirmative action is got to be at the top of the list because if you do all of the things but you still have inherent discrimination then we're not going to get this job done. But I'd like to also go to the budget question. Let's all remember one thing 15 percent of the federal budget is everything we think of in the domestic agenda. We spend three hundred billion dollars on defense we spend 10 billion dollars on education. We spent 11 billion dollars this year on corn subsidies which we could get rid of are largely get rid of with the Harkin Gephardt save the family farm act. We spend one billion dollars on educating children under five years old. We need to get our priorities straightened out that's the first thing we need to do. Thank you very much Governor Dukakis.

I know we're going to get the Harkin get hard bill in there somehow tonight. They did it. All of us a for all of these things and all of us have laid out in great detail what we would do with that budget deficit and I can tell you that it won't include a national sales tax that soaks the little guy. I can't imagine a worse tax program. Well you tell me about a progressive sales tax. I get it it's free. That's a that's a right 100 percent. That's a Republican tax bill and I'm in hell. I want no part of it I think it's a bad idea. But in the last analysis all paying no taxes are in the public an idea that hits the middle class right between the eyes and that's a Republican tax bill and I think we ought to reject it out of hand. I get a little more time I don't like it. It was kept out of it. Maybe. It's the guy in the White House who's going to set the tone. It's the guy in the White House is going to bring us together. We've had an administration for seven years in this country that has divided us polarized

it's two hours apart. I want to be a president who brings us together. Thank you Governor. Mr. Alvarez. Governor Babbitt the Immigration Reform Act has been a failure. The number of applications fall far short of the projections the filing fees and associated expenses approved astronomical exclusionary criteria is excessive American children are in fact subject to deportation and American born citizens are being subjected to discrimination resulting from employer sanctions. Do you support extension of the application time the continuation of employer sanctions and how will you or in ministration address quote the immigration problem. When I go to the polls to see these three way they are. Does that count on my 30 seconds. They the urgent issue

on the immigration bill is to extend the deadline it's clear that the Justice Department has not reached out and attempted to get the information to people who are entitled to amnesty. And it would be a cruel hoax a deliberate destruction of the agreement that they made to do that. Now the the real issue behind that immigration bill I believe lies in Mexico and Central America. If you were a young head of household and Michel at Chon or a sin or a con or in one of those countries where would you be trying to go you'd be trying to cross the border wouldn't you to go north. And ultimately the way to deal with the immigration issue is not to pass more laws attempting to stem that tide by excluding people but to start settling up the warfare and the chaos in Central America. And he's attending the hand of economic development and reducing third world debt and paying attention to that you know in Central America.

Thank you Reverend Jackson. The immigration policy as we now know what it is is a scrim an authority against Hispanic looking persons. My stage manager in Texas Dr. Munda good terrorism Ph.D. in political science. When trying to get several jobs had to prove he was an American citizen and he's been an American citizen by family across the years somehow as long as there is war in Central America and poverty is going to drive people across the border. We need a Pan American policy if the intaglio humus fear. I was American in Texas a month ago. A man his wife and mother in law with two children along the side of the road couldn't broccoli for $2 an hour. They work and they had no out the hotel that's been their bodies in the open field. The children should have been in school child labor laws of being well being violated. I submit to you my friends we would do well to have a comprehensive economic policy for the humor and energy policy and not a war policy that complicates the situation. And

then when they sin against American citizens by race sex or culture. Thank you very Jackson Congressman Gephardt. We should extend the time and we should also go back and look at employer sanctions as we go along to see if they are being used correctly. A lot of us in the Congress had a great concern that employer sanctions would result in discrimination and that may be the case and we've got to make sure it's not the case. And if it is we've got to change the law or change the regulations or move on to something else. But the big challenge with Mexico and with immigration in Central America is an economic question. We have to help the countries of that region make their economies work. It is in our direct self-interest that we do that. The twin plants that we've talked about are part of it. There are problems with that program we've got to make it work where they have long term energy contracts especially for natural gas with Mexico. And finally we've got to find a way

to deal with Mexican debt the way we're doing it doesn't work. And we need to find a way that it does work and where we can begin dealing with all of those problems then immigration as a problem will go away. Thank you congressman down to the caucus. I think Bruce got a lousy tax plan but I agree with him completely when it comes to this subject. If we don't stop what you are phantom plan to collect money from under them not. Me. We were running close to time but if we stick to the issues. But he's right about Central America. I might die out if that war continues. If we don't stop the killing and get behind the peace process there will be hundreds and hundreds of thousands of people in Central America who are going to come north because they can't take it any longer. That is why getting behind the peace process is so important I do think we could do one other thing in the administration of our immigration laws. And that is to make sure that families are not torn apart that is not necessary under the law. It's not needed. And any

administration I'm responsible for is going to have an administrator of that law who understands that keeping families together is an important part of the American dream is all about. We can do that on the existing law and we should. Thank you Governor. Senator Simon. Yes two things are immediately needed one is the family unification permission and the INS can do that by regulation. They do not need a change in law. They have already at one point extended the deadline informally and that could be done again. But the big thing is that we work with Mexico to lift the economy of that country. And both United States and Mexico will benefit. There are no two nations neighboring each other anywhere in the world where there is a is a great aid of a diversity in quality of life and standard of living as between the United States and Mexico and Mexico today has 85 million people. If Mexico reaches the point of zero

population growth by the year 2000 Mexico will have one hundred seventy five million. If that doesn't happen for the year 2020 it will be two hundred seventy five million. Clearly we ought to be working with Mexico. It is in our interest and the interest of the people of Mexico. Now right now in the questions of the time limit that we're running behind we ask that each candidate only make their question to 15 seconds and your response to that is 45 seconds. And we'll start with Representative Gephardt and question to Governor Dukakis. Mike the question of homelessness is the one I'd like you to address what have you done about it in the state of Massachusetts. And as president what would you like to do about it in a on a national basis that I don't know of any problem that faces this country that more symbolizes what we have to do to make this country whole again. I'm proud to

say that I've got the most comprehensive homeless prevention program in the country one of the few states that invests state funds in subsidized housing for families of low and moderate income but we're lucky we're doing well and we have the resources. I want to create a national partnership for affordable housing that brings everybody in the housing community into this. Builders developers nonprofit organizations community action agencies the federal state and local governments. We have got to get back in the business of building and rehabilitating housing for families of low and moderate income. We've walked away from that. The president has I regret to say the Congress has and it's time we recommit ourselves to one fundamental principle and that is that every American family every American is entitled to decent and affordable shelter. Thank you go to the caucus center Simon your question to Governor Babbitt. Bruce you favor moving more and more into a loan program for people who go to college. But that has been the thrust of this administration loan programs cost the federal government more money in the long run. And number two they

discriminate because those of us who are white males can repay loans more easily than females are members of minority groups. You want to back off on that and come up with a better program. No no you've got to be kidding when you say that a loan program is more expensive than a grant program that's just like your budget proposals. This year the summer house. It doesn't add up the numbers just don't work. Now here's my proposal. I make loans available to anybody at low interest. What how do you repay a national service Vista the Peace Corps the military serve your country if you can't read. I would limit repayment to a modest part of your income and ultimately forgive the loan. But what I'm saying is you've got to get your economics straight. And secondly there's nothing wrong about telling a student borrow the money will let you pay it back if you can and if you can't will forgive it what's wrong with

that. Costs a lot more money this year the federal government spends 1.6 billion dollars for that. Thank you very much gentlemen. Now Reverend Jackson to Congressman Gephardt. Congressman Gephardt Cuba is and goal of invitation to South Africa's and Angola and and the may be about occupation and invasion who should leave and go live for us. Cuba South Africa. If we could back up a new policy to get South Africa out then I think Cuba would leave. We have not been a leader in that respect. We have been encouraging I think in many ways the South African government to do all of the things that it does because we haven't stood up for change. We haven't stood up for change on apartheid. The Congress had to override a veto of the president on the policy that we wanted the country to have.

And incidentally I think that was one of the highest and best moments of the Congress's changing policy in our country. And I'm proud of what we did so if we could move in that in all these respects I think Cuba would back off. So what I was trying to say a moment ago if we would begin to move in some different directions. Maybe we could get to the point where a negotiation with Cuba could take place but we've got to start moving on some of these problems. Thank you. Going to pocket your question to Senator Simon. Paul we have now 12000 strategic nuclear warheads enough to blow up the Soviet Union 40 times over and they have eleven thousand so they can do it to us and we talk tonight about the importance of investing in education economic development training health care and housing. Why spend 50 billion dollars we don't have an image of me in this. The question is not only the midget manned missile the question is the whole business of piling up more and more and more

nuclear weapons. And mostly we have to pick and choose. We clearly don't need both a midget man and an Amex we don't need both the stealth bomber and a B-1. We have to pick and choose we have to have an adequate defense but we have to work out agreements with the Soviet Union so that both of us step back from the edge of the cliff. If the United States and the Soviet Union keep piling up weapons as we now are eventually someone somewhere is going to strike a match. We can do much much better for future generations and we are now doing. Thank you Governor Babbit. Just some of our colleagues have been dealing with this issue of cutting expenditures by a thing called Gramm-Rudman which cuts everything across the board equally whether it's children AIDS research Star Wars presidential libraries. I've talked about an alternative

which says you make choices you preserve the programs that people need and you get rid of the military and domestic ones that people don't need. Now my question is if you were Dick Gephardt or Paul Simon would you have voted for Gramm-Rudman. I would not vote for Gramm-Rudman because it's basically on fate taxes the very wealthy and the very poor equal that which by definition is unequal as I said it is ham and egg justice. The chicken drops the egg and moves on the rich. Drop the egg. The poor have to drop the leg told sacrifice and they cannot move own. Console Gramm-Rudman Hollands. Sacrifices the poor and does not charge the rich and the powerful adequate. Mr Reagan gave the rich and top of the 600 billion not a tax break. They didn't reinvest in America. They had a party now they want those who were not invited to the party to pay for the party that is not fair. Let's have a. Tax system.

Thank you. Now you can see. Now we have come to the part of the same inspired candidates gentlemen due to the fact that we are running overtime. Your closing statement will be limited to 30 seconds and you will be cut off. We will begin with Reverend Jackson. We must be sensitive to black and brown concerns but not segregate them at this point in history. The rule for the urban black and brown must have common ground. This time let's not fight each other let's fight together. At the plant gate to save our jobs Let's fight together to save our farms. Let's fight together to raise the minimum wage. Let's turn to each other and not only each other and let's rise together and not sink apart. Thank you very Jackson. Again we ask you to hold your applause here on a very tight schedule.

Congressman Gephardt there's a passage from scripture of the Dr. Martin Luther King often quoted and went like this lead judgment roll down as waters and righteousness as a mighty stream in the Reagan years justice has been rolled back and the stream has been dammed up and there is no more urgent task before us now than the moral imperative of equality. We have changed the laws. Now we have to change American lives. And as we stand for equality and affirmative action we also have to stand for economic equality. Thank you that's our great mission in this next to Dennis Rader. Governor Dukakis. This week we celebrate the memory of a man who talked about a dream. I'm a product of that dream I believe in it and I believe working together with the we can help that dream come true for every single citizen in this land about who they are where they come from what the color of their skin what a poco a poco also apostle mano a mano.

Bombs are going up slowly but surely. Step by step hand in hand. We're going to win. Thank you all very much. Thank you Governor. Senator Simon. Can we do better. Of course we can. Maybe for yesterday Jesse Jackson and I were down in Atlanta for the service honoring Martin Luther King. He dreamed he cared. He acted. That's what we need as a nation leadership that leads that cares that access. We have the talent we have the resources what we need is the leadership that cares and dreams and acts. And I'm ready to provide. Thank you Senator. Governor Babbit. We talked together and frequently of that jury. We ought to remember that Martin Luther King Jr. had not only a dream but a plan a course

of action that he was willing to fight for and that he ultimately died for. We all together every Democrat here in this audience and at this table we all share that dream. I've tried to be different by saying that we must have a place. We have to have the capacity to fight and to be specific and honest and talk about how we set priorities and how we deal with the obstacles in the way and have the courage to talk about cutting expenditures. Anything protect programs to raise revenues to say thank you we're going to get together and we'll fight for that dream. Thank you thank you. Thank you very much. This is the televised portion of the brown black Presidential for I want to thank the candidates our panel and most of all you for coming out. Thank you very much. Remain seated candidates please and. Panels. A. Major funding for this program was provided by Planned the

violent public television. Test and test. Ladies and gentlemen we would like to have a summary of this Ixtoc occasion and we have our with only senator Senator Tom Mann who will come up and give his assessment of this Ixtoc event. Thank you Wayne. The significance of this debate is that it gives the black and brown community an opportunity to have the candidates

come before us and to address issues of particular concern. Tonight we've heard them do that. Because of the failures of the past we are approaching the next century with irrational and costly racial FIA's and weakened by unemployment and a large army of alienated citizens. It therefore becomes important for us as members of the black and brown community to let the candidates know what we think is important and at the same time to ask them what they are going to do for us. My view of what happened here tonight is that they express the kind of commitment we needed from them and affirmative commitment to our agenda and not but nine black and I heard throughout the course of the remarks comments which could be interpreted as an affirmative commitment. It's my pleasure to introduce what we have spandex consider a

premier a Spanish leader in the state of Iowa. He is the executive director of the Spanish speaking peoples commission for the state of Iowa may get it right. Thank you very much. The significance of this event is that we invited the candidates and they came before us. A few questions were given responses were given. We heard as you can tell the solutions to this complex questions cannot really be dealt with in a forum. Therefore our message to the candidates should be you have heard. Some of our people in Iowa perhaps not representative of our make up of this country but we in Iowa the black and brown are together the Black and Brown have the same concerns

as the rest of our brothers agree as a nation and the rest of our brothers aggressor nation have similar questions. Give those questions serious consideration and in particular the spending agenda. As with that was forced in Washington D.C. you know Tober was given to all of you. We would like for you now to make a public commitment by studying that agenda and specifically addressing the specific solutions addressed in that agenda and give those solutions as you go forth to New Hampshire and for Tuesday. I think you very much. Thank you. I want to thank Reverend Jackson. There's the governor's office Senator Simon and of course Governor Babbitt for attending here. You may have noticed we have missed two Democratic candidates. I want to also thank you for prioritizing demonstrating that you

are prioritized both Hispanic and black issues and we will remember that two Democratic party candidates were absent I assure you. I would also like to say that we were planning a Republican forum for next week. We do not have any major Republican Party candidates committed to that Republican Party candidates need to remember and that is Spanish. Am blacks will remember them. They are. They must either play or pay later. At this time I'd like to introduce the Spanish

members of the Brown Black Coalition. They are and not necessarily in order of importance or alphabetically just the way I got into the coat treasure. Gladys throw it. On I think you met him. Thank you. You've already met this person she was a panelist Christina a florist and Scn. Our time keeper one of our time keepers Londell by this. And by anyone's definition one heck of a logistics person Liz body. And Paul Glastris.

I'd also like to introduce I believe they're in the audience. Two people that have been very supportive in promoting the both this band and black causes by under part of this forum. They are co chairs state chairs of a premier organization you're going to be hearing a heck of a lot about any pace the political arm of the National Association of Social Workers Bill Tyson and Barbara Vogt right are you here. And last but not least two individuals that are close to my heart. We imported him all the way from Kansas to help out my friend Mark testin door. And if I don't introduce or I'll hear about it later my beautiful wife Alvarez thank you.

When I also like to introduce the black part of this brown and black coalition. And again you know four years ago with this thing and it took about three months to put it together and this year we start in March and what you see is the classic example of some good work. My the first member of the committee I'd like to introduce as no doubt and some avail one to Palace. The next number Larry Carter who has been a past president and obviously for the last since 1981 Larry can you stand please. And what I want to mention now is that given that the court gave the coalition a great deal of money and sometimes it's nice to know that you know the end obviously be a very in a residence and cultural ideas and things like that and I just want to thank Laurie again for that kind of support. The next memory is Jack you come out here please.

The next memory you know Mary more junior can you stand please. Don Nicholson can you stand. Doris Tucker. And Reverend Warren Sloane. I also want to mention some of the people who have contributed to this historic occasion the ushers whereby urban joins you and also the Hispanic and North High School. They present to us us now. A key point as you all came in the day after.